Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:14 AM - Re: Adjusting screw torque (4aplat)
2. 06:25 AM - Re: Adjusting screw torque (Beckman, Rick)
3. 06:59 AM - Re: Adjusting screw torque (4aplat)
4. 07:24 AM - Jabiru electric circuit design, your comments?? (Rob Turk)
5. 11:24 AM - Re: Jabiru electric circuit design, your comments?? (Mark Hubelbank)
6. 12:51 PM - Re: Jabiru electric circuit design, your comments?? (Rob Turk)
7. 01:39 PM - Re: Jabiru electric circuit design, your comments?? (Craig Payne)
8. 02:01 PM - Re: Jabiru electric circuit design, your comments?? (Rob Turk)
9. 02:02 PM - Re: Jabiru electric circuit design, your comments?? (Rob Turk)
10. 03:09 PM - Re: Jabiru electric circuit design, your comments?? (FLYaDIVE)
11. 03:46 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru electric circuit design, your comments?? (Kennedy, David)
12. 06:40 PM - low compression on Jabiru engine using AVGAS (Jabiru Chile)
13. 08:09 PM - Re: low compression on Jabiru engine using AVGAS (FLYaDIVE)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting screw torque |
the screws have been changed and the plane flies again
--------
the French Jabiru Forum
http://jabiru-owner.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316447#316447
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting screw torque |
That's GREAT!!! Back in the wild blue yonder!!
Do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting screw torque |
here is the test flight
http://www.youtube.com/v/Cu9OLvydjhg
--------
the French Jabiru Forum
http://jabiru-owner.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=316451#316451
Message 4
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| Subject: | Jabiru electric circuit design, your comments?? |
As winter sets in I am planning to rewire (some of) my plane. After studying
some of the aeroelectric diagrams and making a list of requirements I have
designed an electric system that I think should be easy to operate and safe.
You can find a copy here: http://www.rtist.nl/Files/JabPower.doc
The document only describes the main power circuit and protection setup.
nothing fancy with cross-feeds, alternate busses or anything yet. I'd like
to hear comments and concerns, if any...
Rob
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru electric circuit design, your comments?? |
Rob,
While some of these things may be over kill, most do no harm and
may be good. One thing to keep in mind is that most relays (contractors)
that can also handle the full starting current have a continuous current
draw of about one amp. With only 20 amps available in a 3300
installation, this is significant. The risk of a starter relay getting
stuck on is very low and essentially zero while in flight.
One other thing to always consider, is that by adding complexity,
is one trading one reliability problem for another. For example, Large
caps are not the most reliable things in the world. By rights the cap
should be fused. then the added resistance of the fuse reduces the
effect of the cap. It is hard to win!
On 10/20/2010 10:18 AM, Rob Turk wrote:
>
> As winter sets in I am planning to rewire (some of) my plane. After
> studying
> some of the aeroelectric diagrams and making a list of requirements I
> have
> designed an electric system that I think should be easy to operate and
> safe.
> You can find a copy here: http://www.rtist.nl/Files/JabPower.doc
>
> The document only describes the main power circuit and protection setup.
> nothing fancy with cross-feeds, alternate busses or anything yet. I'd
> like
> to hear comments and concerns, if any...
>
> Rob
>
>
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel@nemon.com
978-443-3955
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru electric circuit design, your comments?? |
Hmmm. It seems some people can't see the actual drawing. Here's a link to
the JPEG image.
http://www.rtist.nl/Files/JabPower.JPG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Turk" <matronics@rtist.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 4:18 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Jabiru electric circuit design, your comments??
>
> As winter sets in I am planning to rewire (some of) my plane. After
> studying
> some of the aeroelectric diagrams and making a list of requirements I have
> designed an electric system that I think should be easy to operate and
> safe.
> You can find a copy here: http://www.rtist.nl/Files/JabPower.doc
>
> The document only describes the main power circuit and protection setup.
> nothing fancy with cross-feeds, alternate busses or anything yet. I'd like
> to hear comments and concerns, if any...
>
> Rob
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Jabiru electric circuit design, your comments?? |
One solution to the coil current on contactors is a manual switch. Del City
has some that are rated for 180 amps. But that leaves high current line in
the cockpit. One idea would be to remotely actuate it with a rod:
http://www.delcity.net/store/180A-Master-Disconnecting-Switch/p_4877.a_1
-- Craig
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru electric circuit design, your comments?? |
Mark,
Thanks for your comments, very welcome indeed.
I am aware of the contactor current. The main contactor draws about 1A. I
think that's acceptable and a necessary evil. The alternator relay is a bit
less power-hungry. I am planning to use an automotive relay which draws
about 250mA and is rated for 40A.
You bring up a good point about the capacitor. I have one in right now and I
have deliberately selected the one with the best lifetime and largest
temperature range I could find. Not sure if the failure modes for this
capacitor warrant adding a fuse to the circuit. I use one of these:
http://nl.farnell.com/epcos/b41560a7479m/capacitor-47000uf-40v/dp/4704903
The 'stuck starter' is a bit of a religious fight. My current setup has the
starter contactor directly attached to the battery, and it works just fine.
I agree with you that the chances of failure are very low, and essentially
zero in flight. But the local engineer responsible for signing off cringed
when I showed it to him, and he insists that there have been accidents and
even fires from stuck starter contactors. Old wives tail? Who knows. If a
simple rewire can avoid it, then I see no harm in making the modification.
>From an operation point of view I don't consider this to be a complex
system.
- Main switch disconnects everything.
- Starter can only be engaged if main bus has power.
- Alternator switch should be engaged to charge battery and run the
electrics.
- Warning light reminds you to engage alternator.
- If alternator or regulator fail and cause high voltage, the OV module will
cause a short through the alternator switch/breaker which trips at > 2 Amps.
- Warning light comes on when OV has tripped the alternator switch
- Current and voltage are monitored on dual Westach instrument.
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hubelbank" <mhubel@nemon.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jabiru electric circuit design, your
comments??
>
> Rob,
> While some of these things may be over kill, most do no harm and may
> be good. One thing to keep in mind is that most relays (contractors) that
> can also handle the full starting current have a continuous current draw
> of about one amp. With only 20 amps available in a 3300 installation, this
> is significant. The risk of a starter relay getting stuck on is very low
> and essentially zero while in flight.
> One other thing to always consider, is that by adding complexity, is
> one trading one reliability problem for another. For example, Large caps
> are not the most reliable things in the world. By rights the cap should be
> fused. then the added resistance of the fuse reduces the effect of the
> cap. It is hard to win!
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru electric circuit design, your comments?? |
Good suggestion, thanks!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:36 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Jabiru electric circuit design, your
comments??
> <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> One solution to the coil current on contactors is a manual switch. Del
> City
> has some that are rated for 180 amps. But that leaves high current line in
> the cockpit. One idea would be to remotely actuate it with a rod:
>
> http://www.delcity.net/store/180A-Master-Disconnecting-Switch/p_4877.a_1
>
> -- Craig
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru electric circuit design, your comments?? |
Rob:
How is the alternator mechanical driven?
If it is belt driven - Go with a automotive alternator with a built in
Voltage Regulator - And you will have:
1 - Your crowbar circuit.
2 - elimination of the alternator contactor
3 - Elimination of the Jabriu Voltage Regulator and all that extra STUFF.
And don't forget about the TIME and WIRING
For an alternator warning light a Voltage Comparator and LED will give you
the warning.
And it can be made to show when the battery is being charged.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now if you cannot go with the automotive alternator my next question is:
Why the Alternator Contactor?
The Output of the Alternator can be tied DIRECTLY to the Battery Buss.
The circuit you have ADDS RESISTANCE and TWO (2) failure points:
1 - The Battery Contactor. INPUT & OUTPUT and
2 - Contactor coil and Wiring harness.
Some may say that is four (4) failure points.
I'm guessing that your Ammeter is a Zero Center movement?
If so, the deflection will be 0 to 30 Amps in either direction. <-- I would
go slightly higher because Nominal output is 30 Amps, you have no surge
leeway.
IS IT A 30 Amp Alternator?
Is the meter Analog or Digital?
If Analog the sensitivity to LOW current draws will be poor if not nil.
If Digital check on the response of it.
I have always found a good SIMPLE volt meter is much better than an Ammeter.
Small current discharges don't show up.
You will see it with your volt meter.
Your MASTER SWITCH:
I think you just did not put it in the schematic... But Use a Toggle Circuit
Breaker (amperage to match the contactor), I'm guessing 5 Amps.
The R/C circuit for filtering Good Idea... But eliminate the resistor.
There is enough LOW resistance in the alternator handle bleed down.
And 47K uF is good.... 100K uF is even better.
Question: What are pins 1, 3, 5 & 6 ?
Pin 6 LQQKs like Alternator output. OK
The Alternator itself should be Grounded Also.
STARTER:
Hang a LED off the OUTPUT of the Starter Contactor.
That way if the Contactor welds closed you will SEE the Lit LED and can shut
the engine down.
OK, that's all for now.
Barry
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru electric circuit design, your comments?? |
If it is like my 8cy there is no belt a fixed stators with
revolving magnet only on mine I have double stators
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
FLYaDIVE
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jabiru electric circuit design,
your comments??
Importance: Low
Rob:
How is the alternator mechanical driven?
If it is belt driven - Go with a automotive alternator with a built in
Voltage Regulator - And you will have:
1 - Your crowbar circuit.
2 - elimination of the alternator contactor
3 - Elimination of the Jabriu Voltage Regulator and all that extra
STUFF.
And don't forget about the TIME and WIRING
For an alternator warning light a Voltage Comparator and LED will give
you the warning.
And it can be made to show when the battery is being charged.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
Now if you cannot go with the automotive alternator my next question is:
Why the Alternator Contactor?
The Output of the Alternator can be tied DIRECTLY to the Battery Buss.
The circuit you have ADDS RESISTANCE and TWO (2) failure points:
1 - The Battery Contactor. INPUT & OUTPUT and
2 - Contactor coil and Wiring harness.
Some may say that is four (4) failure points.
I'm guessing that your Ammeter is a Zero Center movement?
If so, the deflection will be 0 to 30 Amps in either direction. <-- I
would go slightly higher because Nominal output is 30 Amps, you have no
surge leeway.
IS IT A 30 Amp Alternator?
Is the meter Analog or Digital?
If Analog the sensitivity to LOW current draws will be poor if not nil.
If Digital check on the response of it.
I have always found a good SIMPLE volt meter is much better than an
Ammeter.
Small current discharges don't show up.
You will see it with your volt meter.
Your MASTER SWITCH:
I think you just did not put it in the schematic... But Use a Toggle
Circuit Breaker (amperage to match the contactor), I'm guessing 5 Amps.
The R/C circuit for filtering Good Idea... But eliminate the resistor.
There is enough LOW resistance in the alternator handle bleed down.
And 47K uF is good.... 100K uF is even better.
Question: What are pins 1, 3, 5 & 6 ?
Pin 6 LQQKs like Alternator output. OK
The Alternator itself should be Grounded Also.
STARTER:
Hang a LED off the OUTPUT of the Starter Contactor.
That way if the Contactor welds closed you will SEE the Lit LED and can
shut the engine down.
OK, that's all for now.
Barry
Message 12
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| Subject: | low compression on Jabiru engine using AVGAS |
Hi group, I have 3 engines (3 different owners in different cities) that are
running on avgas 100/130 in Chile, that after 80 hours are with low
compression on 2 or more cylinders. Have some of you any experience with
same issue? 2 of these engines are flying in J450 and J430 and one of them
is mounted in a Jabiru UL (2200).
Please any commends will be appreciated,
Christian
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: low compression on Jabiru engine using AVGAS |
Christian:
There is a VERY good chance you are experiencing the same problems MANY
engines here in the USA are experiencing while running on 100LL. 100LL
is really not Low Lead at all. It is four times the lead as the old AvGas
80.
Since you are having low compression I would bet that they
are experiencing lead/coke build up in the valve stems.
If the build up goes untreated the valve will stick in the down
(open) position and if the valve - cylinder clearance is an interference fit
they will be spitting out valve parts. AND even if it is not
an interference fit, the compression will go to zero and still again they
will be looking for an emergency field and new engine parts.
The options are:
Use TCP in the fuel to reduce lead build up
LEAN AGGRESSIVELY - ALL THE TIMES -- Even when taxing.
Use AUTO - MoGas or a mixture of MoGas & AvGas. Just keep the octane where
needed.
1 hour flight before every oil change put in one quart of MMO (Marvell
Mystery Oil) - This helps clean the build up.
Now, these suggestion come with the limited information you gave. We don't
know how the engines are being run.
The time between oil changes.
The type of oil being used.
The quality of the gas and at least a dozen more items.
Since you identified that the engines have low compression - Have you
identified where they are leaking from?
Valves or Rings?
Any gasket leaks?
Fill in the blanks on the above questions and I'll try to diagnose.
GOOD LUCK,
Barry
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 9:36 PM, Jabiru Chile <info@jabiru.cl> wrote:
> Hi group, I have 3 engines (3 different owners in different cities) that
> are running on avgas 100/130 in Chile, that after 80 hours are with low
> compression on 2 or more cylinders. Have some of you any experience with
> same issue? 2 of these engines are flying in J450 and J430 and one of them
> is mounted in a Jabiru UL (2200).
>
> Please any commends will be appreciated,
>
>
> Christian
>
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