---------------------------------------------------------- JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 11/21/10: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:04 AM - Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published in December! (Matt Dralle) 1. 06:53 AM - Re: Engine Shut Down (Noel Loveys) 2. 08:01 AM - Re: Engine Shut Down (Noel Loveys) 3. 12:25 PM - Re: Engine Shut Down (Martin Hone) 4. 03:40 PM - Re: Engine Shut Down (FLYaDIVE) 5. 05:09 PM - Re: Engine Shut Down (Dave) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:25 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published in December! Dear Listers, The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:50 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down Martin: You have #2 backward. A broken P-Lead won't allow the ignition to be grounded out... therefore not allowing the pilot any other method of stopping the engine other than fuel starvation. It will start just fine. Noel From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Martin Hone Sent: November 19, 2010 11:22 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down Hi G.A. I wouldn;t be too sure about that. I think you will find that the CHT's of any well running Continental or Lycoming are pretty much the same as for a well running Jab. That would be between 300 and 380 degrees F in my experience. The reason these engines use idle mixture cut-off is 1. Because they can 2. A broken 'P' lead won't allow the engine to fire if the prop is moved 3. Highly leaded fuels provide more material that can glow in the combustion chamber and will keep the engine running-on even if the mags are switched off. Cheers Martin On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 12:27 PM, wrote: Mike, If you have a mixture control on your carburetor you could shut it off that way.But if you want to kill it by turning off the fuel selector,be prepared to wait for a couple minutes for the fuel bowl on the Bing to run dry. General aviation engines run a couple hundred degrees higher cylinder head temps and would run on with out spark ignition,you had to starve it of fuel to kill it. G.Aman Jabiru 2200A 600 hrs -----Original Message----- From: MHerder Sent: Thu, Nov 18, 2010 9:44 pm Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down Manual on my 3300 says just turn the ignition off to shut it down... Any reason why we should or shouldn't be shutting it off buy shutting off the fuel? -------- One Rivet at a Time! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319979#319979 ========== _blank">www.aeroelectric.com " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List ========== tp://forums.matronics.com ========== _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List tp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:41 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down Barry: I think you answered your own question. The fuel injectors are electrically operated. They spray a fine mist of fuel into the cylinders just before the spark is given. Spraying cold fuel into the cylinder at that time causes the cylinder to cool a little ( may or may not be appreciable ) but also it means there isn't any fuel there detonate. Anti knock detectors will also adjust the timing of the fuel injection to prevent knocking. Noel Loaded Question: If the flash point of gas is so low, below that of internal CHT why do we not Pre-Ignition all the time? Barry On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 9:27 PM, wrote: Mike, If you have a mixture control on your carburetor you could shut it off that way.But if you want to kill it by turning off the fuel selector,be prepared to wait for a couple minutes for the fuel bowl on the Bing to run dry. General aviation engines run a couple hundred degrees higher cylinder head temps and would run on with out spark ignition,you had to starve it of fuel to kill it. G.Aman Jabiru 2200A 600 hrs -----Original Message----- From: MHerder Sent: Thu, Nov 18, 2010 9:44 pm Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down Manual on my 3300 says just turn the ignition off to shut it down... Any reason why we should or shouldn't be shutting it off buy shutting off the fuel? -------- One Rivet at a Time! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319979#319979 ========== _blank">www.aeroelectric.com " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List ========== tp://forums.matronics.com ========== _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List tp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:24 PM PST US Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down From: Martin Hone Hi Noel, You are correct. What I was trying to say was that a broken 'P' lead would prevent you shutting down the engine, Cheers and thanks Martin On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 12:50 AM, Noel Loveys wrote: > Martin: > > > You have #2 backward. A broken P-Lead won=92t allow the ignition to be > grounded out... therefore not allowing the pilot any other method of > stopping the engine other than fuel starvation. It will start just fine. > > > Noel > > > *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Martin Hone > *Sent:* November 19, 2010 11:22 PM > *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > > *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down > > > Hi G.A. > > > I wouldn;t be too sure about that. I think you will find that the CHT's of > any well running Continental or Lycoming are pretty much the same as for a > well running Jab. That would be between 300 and 380 degrees F in my > experience. The reason these engines use idle mixture cut-off is > > 1. Because they can > > 2. A broken 'P' lead won't allow the engine to fire if the prop is moved > > 3. Highly leaded fuels provide more material that can glow in the > combustion chamber and will keep the engine running-on even if the mags a re > switched off. > > > Cheers > > > Martin > > On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 12:27 PM, wrote: > > Mike, > If you have a mixture control on your carburetor you could shut it off th at > way.But if you want to kill it by turning off the fuel selector,be prepar ed > to wait for a couple minutes for the fuel bowl on the Bing to run dry. > General aviation engines run a couple hundred degrees higher cylinder hea d > temps and would run on with out spark ignition,you had to starve it of fu el > to kill it. > G.Aman Jabiru 2200A 600 hrs > > > -----Original Message----- > From: MHerder > To: jabiruengine-list > Sent: Thu, Nov 18, 2010 9:44 pm > Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down > up.com> > > > Manual on my 3300 says just turn the ignition off to shut it down... Any reason > > > why we should or shouldn't be shutting it off buy shutting off the fuel? > > > -------- > > > One Rivet at a Time! > > > Read this topic online here: > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319979#319979 > > > ========== > > > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com > > > " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > > > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > > > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ========== > > > ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Li st > > > ========== > > > tp://forums.matronics.com > > > ========== > > > * * > > * * > > *_blank">www.aeroelectric.com* > > *.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com* > > *="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com* > > *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > *ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-L ist* > > *tp://forums.matronics.com* > > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *www.aeroelectric.com* > > *www.buildersbooks.com* > > *www.homebuilthelp.com* > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List* > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > * > =========== =========== =========== ============* > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:40:38 PM PST US Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down From: FLYaDIVE Noel: So how do you explain it for NON-Fuel Injected engines? Or engines WITHOUT anti-knock equipment? And even those fuel injected engine WITHOUT electric injectors? Remember... I said it was a LOADED QUESTION :-) Barry On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Noel Loveys wrote: > Barry: > > > I think you answered your own question. The fuel injectors are > electrically operated. They spray a fine mist of fuel into the cylinders > just before the spark is given. Spraying cold fuel into the cylinder at > that time causes the cylinder to cool a little ( may or may not be > appreciable ) but also it means there isn=92t any fuel there detonate. Anti > knock detectors will also adjust the timing of the fuel injection to prev ent > knocking. > > > Noel > > > Loaded Question: If the flash point of gas is so low, below that of > internal CHT why do we not Pre-Ignition all the time? > > > Barry > > > On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 9:27 PM, wrote: > > Mike, > If you have a mixture control on your carburetor you could shut it off th at > way.But if you want to kill it by turning off the fuel selector,be prepar ed > to wait for a couple minutes for the fuel bowl on the Bing to run dry. > General aviation engines run a couple hundred degrees higher cylinder hea d > temps and would run on with out spark ignition,you had to starve it of fu el > to kill it. > G.Aman Jabiru 2200A 600 hrs > > > -----Original Message----- > From: MHerder > To: jabiruengine-list > Sent: Thu, Nov 18, 2010 9:44 pm > Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down > up.com> > > > Manual on my 3300 says just turn the ignition off to shut it down... Any reason > > > why we should or shouldn't be shutting it off buy shutting off the fuel? > > > -------- > > > One Rivet at a Time! > > > Read this topic online here: > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319979#319979 > > > ========== > > > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com > > > " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > > > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > > > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ========== > > > ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Li st > > > ========== > > > tp://forums.matronics.com > > > ========== > > > * * > > * * > > *_blank">www.aeroelectric.com* > > *.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com* > > *="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com* > > *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > *ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-L ist* > > *tp://forums.matronics.com* > > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *www.aeroelectric.com* > > *www.buildersbooks.com* > > *www.homebuilthelp.com* > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List* > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > * > =========== =========== =========== ============* > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:09:11 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down The autoignition temp of gasoline is just below 500 deg., below that it needs an ignition source. So maybe the answer is that flash point is not autoignition temp. Noel Loaded Question: If the flash point of gas is so low, below that of internal CHT why do we not Pre-Ignition all the time? 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