---------------------------------------------------------- JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/22/10: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:11 AM - Contributions Down By 17%... (Matt Dralle) 1. 05:25 AM - Re: Engine Shut Down (FLYaDIVE) 2. 05:41 AM - Re: Engine Shut Down (Kayberg@aol.com) 3. 06:14 AM - Re: Engine Shut Down (BobsV35B@aol.com) 4. 06:37 AM - Re: Engine Shut Down (Kayberg@aol.com) 5. 07:05 AM - Re: Engine Shut Down (BobsV35B@aol.com) 6. 10:00 AM - Re: Engine Shut Down (FLYaDIVE) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:49 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Contributions Down By 17%... Dear Listers, As of today, Contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind last year at this time by roughly 17%. I have a Fund Raiser each year simply to cover my operating costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income to support the Lists and rely solely on the Contributions of members to keep the expenses paid. I run all of my own servers and they are housed here locally, and the Internet connection is a commercial-grade, T1 connection with public address space. I also maintain a full backup system that does nightly backups of all List-related data so that in the event of a server crash or worse, all of the Lists and the many years of List archive data could be restored onto a new server in a matter of hours. All of this costs a fair amount of money, not to mention a significant amount of my personal time. I have a Fund Raiser each year to cover these costs and I ask that members that feel they receive a benefit from my investments make a modest Contribution each year to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. If you enjoy the Lists, please make a Contribution today. I also offer some incentive gifts for larger Contribution levels. At the Contribution Web Wite, you can use a credit card, Paypal, or personal check to show your support for the continuation of these services: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:14 AM PST US Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down From: FLYaDIVE Very Good Dave: Wait for it.... Wait for it.... BUT! The internal temps of a cylinder are higher than CHT readings. BUT! You do have about 60% of the question answered. Think of it this way... What would cause the flash point to change? Before I give the answer, lets try another question? Sort of a HINT :-) At what Temperature does water boil? And remember this is a Loaded / Trick Question AND remember who is asking it ;-) Barry ===================================== On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 8:06 PM, Dave wrote: > The autoignition temp of gasoline is just below 500 deg., below that it > needs an ignition source. So maybe the answer is that flash point is not > autoignition temp. > > >> Noel >> >> >> >> >> >> Loaded Question: If the flash point of gas is so low, below that of >> internal CHT why do we not Pre-Ignition all the time? >> >> >> >> Barry >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:13 AM PST US From: Kayberg@aol.com Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down At the risk of messing up a perfectly good teacher-pupil exchange along with some drama, could the word be "pressure'? Pressure would increase the temperatures a la diesel. However, Jabiru engines dont seem to diesel or at least I have never heard of one doing it. And neither do Rotax 912s....which have even higher compression. Tell me again why we are even bothering to discuss Ly-Con's ? Doug k. In a message dated 11/22/2010 8:25:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, flyadive@gmail.com writes: Very Good Dave: Wait for it.... Wait for it.... BUT! The internal temps of a cylinder are higher than CHT readings. BUT! You do have about 60% of the question answered. Think of it this way... What would cause the flash point to change? Before I give the answer, lets try another question? Sort of a HINT :-) At what Temperature does water boil? And remember this is a Loaded / Trick Question AND remember who is asking it ;-) Barry ============ On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 8:06 PM, Dave <_d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca_ (mailto:d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca) > wrote: The autoignition temp of gasoline is just below 500 deg., below that it needs ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:35 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down Good Morning Doug k. You asked: "Tell me again why we are even bothering to discuss Ly-Con's ?" Because we are here to learn and all Otto Cycle engines have the same principles of operation. If you are a trained engineer with many years of hands on development of this art, this is probably a waste of time. However, for those of us who are still learning, we need to understand how the problems have been solved in the past so that we can do a better job of understanding the variances in our Jabiru engines. All part of the learning process. Make any better sense that way? Happy Skies, Old Bob Legend Cub Jabiru 3300 (Not mine, my granddaughter's.) In a message dated 11/22/2010 7:41:23 A.M. Central Standard Time, Kayberg@aol.com writes: At the risk of messing up a perfectly good teacher-pupil exchange along with some drama, could the word be "pressure'? Pressure would increase the temperatures a la diesel. However, Jabiru engines dont seem to diesel or at least I have never heard of one doing it. And neither do Rotax 912s....which have even higher compression. Tell me again why we are even bothering to discuss Ly-Con's ? Doug k. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:53 AM PST US From: Kayberg@aol.com Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down Old Bob, yours is a thoughtful answer. However, how far back do we need to go? There are literally volumes written about Otto Cycle and many many engineers who delight in sharing their knowlege..... And when you compare one engine design to another, many other possiblites emerge. For example, is the Jabiru more like your lawn mower or more like a Lycoming? Your lawn mower is not shut off by leaning the mixture, just by grounding the equivalent of a P-lead. In that sense a Jabiru is more like your lawn mower. (unless you have an electric one...but that uses a switch also) I am just hoping this thread does not turn into an engineers nightmare. Doug Koenigsberg In a message dated 11/22/2010 9:14:46 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, BobsV35B@aol.com writes: Good Morning Doug k. You asked: "Tell me again why we are even bothering to discuss Ly-Con's ?" Because we are here to learn and all Otto Cycle engines have the same principles of operation. If you are a trained engineer with many years of hands on development of this art, this is probably a waste of time. However, for those of us who are still learning, we need to understand how the problems have been solved in the past so that we can do a better job of understanding the variances in our Jabiru engines. All part of the learning process. Make any better sense that way? Happy Skies, Old Bob Legend Cub Jabiru 3300 (Not mine, my granddaughter's.) In a message dated 11/22/2010 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:45 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down Good Morning Doug, Agreed! In fact we often err in many operations because "It has always been done that way." Shutting down the engine by taking away it's fuel is just one of those habits that do not necessarily serve any real purpose. When doing repetitive flights such as passenger hops and Young Eagle flights some engines start a lot easier if the switch is used for that purpose. I find no heartburn at all when I shut down the Jabiru by turning off the ignition switch. We could probably write volumes about all of the Old Wives Tales concerning piston engine operation. All part of our continuing education! Happy Skies, Old Bob PS As for the lawn mower and Lycoming, they both suck, push, bang, and blow! In a message dated 11/22/2010 8:38:05 A.M. Central Standard Time, Kayberg@aol.com writes: Old Bob, yours is a thoughtful answer. However, how far back do we need to go? There are literally volumes written about Otto Cycle and many many engineers who delight in sharing their knowlege..... And when you compare one engine design to another, many other possiblites emerge. For example, is the Jabiru more like your lawn mower or more like a Lycoming? Your lawn mower is not shut off by leaning the mixture, just by grounding the equivalent of a P-lead. In that sense a Jabiru is more like your lawn mower. (unless you have an electric one...but that uses a switch also) I am just hoping this thread does not turn into an engineers nightmare. Doug Koenigsberg ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:00:07 AM PST US Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down From: FLYaDIVE BINGO DOUG - BINGO! Go to the head of the class ;-) Pressure increases the flash point. 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