---------------------------------------------------------- JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 11/24/10: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:22 AM - Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution... (Matt Dralle) 1. 10:14 AM - Re: Engine Shut Down (Lynn Matteson) 2. 12:06 PM - Re: Engine Shut Down (FLYaDIVE) 3. 01:01 PM - Re: Engine Shut Down (Noel Loveys) 4. 01:26 PM - Re: Engine Shut Down (Martin Hone) 5. 01:45 PM - Re: Engine Shut Down (BobsV35B@aol.com) 6. 03:12 PM - Re: Engine Shut Down (FLYaDIVE) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:29 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution... There is less than a week left in this year's List Fund Raiser and only a few short days to grab one of the great Contribution Gifts available this year. Support is still significantly lagging behind last year at this point but hopefully it will pick up here towards the end. Please remember that it is solely the Contributions of List members that keeps the Lists up and running as there is no commercialism or advertising on the Matronics Lists and Forums. The List Contribution web site is secure, fast, and easy and you can use a credit card, Paypal, or a personal check: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA I want to thank everyone that has already made a generous contribution to support the Lists! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics EMail List and Forum Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:14:55 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down Tryptophan....from the turkey. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062 Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer) Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying...1070 hrs (since 3-27-2006) > > Happy Thanksgiving, Ya-All > > What Non-Alcoholic - Thanksgiving Chemical makes OLDER people sleep? > I say OLDER because you can't prove it with my Nephews :-) > > Barry ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down From: FLYaDIVE Very Good Lynn.... Easy to see you are not O.D.ing on turkey as yet... Move to the head of the class ;-) Me, I will be indulging in a bit of the grape, ALL the fixings and a few slices of home made pumpkin & apple pie. My sleep will come from over indulgence and family ;-) To me Thanksgiving is the best holiday of the year. And the most fun is Halloween. Happy Thanksgiving All Barry On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote: > > Tryptophan....from the turkey. > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062 > Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer) > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > Rotec TBI-40 injection > Status: flying...1070 hrs (since 3-27-2006) > > >> Happy Thanksgiving, Ya-All >> >> What Non-Alcoholic - Thanksgiving Chemical makes OLDER people sleep? >> I say OLDER because you can't prove it with my Nephews :-) >> >> Barry >> > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:01:54 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down Let's see... P&W 4360... Lots of different configurations but a 28 cyl version was geared .3:1 so a close estimation of the crank speed would be around 6000 rpm. The 1830 twin Wasp is also geared but closer to 2:3 would give a WOT somewhere under 5000rpm. For those of you who like the lycoming and Continental when you see a G in the suffix of the engine size that usually means it is gear driven and the crank turns at higher speed than the prop... Sound familiar??? Just google some of the Radials and it is there in the specs While you're at it Google Rolls Royce Merlin 0.42:1 Noel From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Martin Hone Sent: November 23, 2010 5:46 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down Sorry, I know this is off topic, but it is an interesting discussion. I have to ask you Noel, what aircooled gear-driven radials run at 912 speeds, given the 912 produces max torque around 4800 rpm ? :-) Martin On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 2:45 AM, Noel Loveys wrote: Ok but you did ask about fuel injected engines.. With non-injected engines they will "ping" just about all the time but you will only be able to notice it when the rpm and load are in specific quantities. For instance a friend of mine many years ago had a Ford 500 with the 390 4bbl., dual low resistance exhausts and mo doubt a few other goodies on it. It had a real problem for we idiot speed demons, it backfired like a mule after 90 mph. That was long before it really got producing what it could. After trying everything to stop the backfiring my friend finally got rid of the car. Several years later the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary had the same problem with a factory built hotrod they got from GM. The Constab, had their own fuel supply so they knew it was high octane. GM technicians from the factory spent two weeks working on the car until they had exhausted ( pardon the pun) every possibility. One of the technicians then sent a sample of the fuel back to GM for a flash test.... It was low-low octane. The Constabulary then decided to test all the high octane tanks in the area, of some fifty tanks tested only one actually had high octane fuel. The Constabulary then charged their test lab with fixing octane numbers and sent notification to all the oil companies servicing the province with warning that their fuel would be tested on a regular basis. The reply they got form their supplier was that they would no longer do octane testing for the Constabulary. The reason conventionally aspirated direct drive aircraft engines get away, most of the time, with lower octane fuel is they are specifically tuned to operate at high throttle settings for extended periods of time. They are also designed to mostly work at lower rpm with a much flatter torque curve than a conventional auto engine. Of course those engines are only certified to use specific fuels so the question is a bit mute. They are also generally high displacement for the power they deliver. The interesting thing with the big radials is they develop so much heat they actually change shape in different phases of flight. Descent is a particularly touchy time as it is dangerous to allow the engine to cool too much as you may need the power on short notice and drawing power form a cold engine is a recipe for not too much fun. There are also many large air-cooled gear driven radial engines which rev to the territory of the 912 and it was not uncommon for them to blow jugs on flights even with the certified fuels. In fact there used to be a running joke that you could always tell the mechanic at an airport because he was the one who drove the biggest, most expensive or fastest car. He made his money replacing cylinders on corn cob radials. ;-> Back from the diversion.... The engines we use (912 UL etc.) are designed to operate efficiently in the extended rpm envelope using fuels of lower octane. Those engines which use higher compression ratios and/or turbo charging ( 914 etc.) are designed to operate on higher octane no lead auto fuels. This is great as long as such fuels are available. The problem we are now coming into is the extended use of ethanol, both as an oxidizer and an octane booster... don't start me on that one! Noel From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE Sent: November 21, 2010 8:08 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down Noel: So how do you explain it for NON-Fuel Injected engines? Or engines WITHOUT anti-knock equipment? And even those fuel injected engine WITHOUT electric injectors? Remember... I said it was a LOADED QUESTION :-) Barry On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Noel Loveys wrote: Barry: I think you answered your own question. The fuel injectors are electrically operated. They spray a fine mist of fuel into the cylinders just before the spark is given. Spraying cold fuel into the cylinder at that time causes the cylinder to cool a little ( may or may not be appreciable ) but also it means there isn't any fuel there detonate. Anti knock detectors will also adjust the timing of the fuel injection to prevent knocking. Noel Loaded Question: If the flash point of gas is so low, below that of internal CHT why do we not Pre-Ignition all the time? Barry On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 9:27 PM, wrote: Mike, If you have a mixture control on your carburetor you could shut it off that way.But if you want to kill it by turning off the fuel selector,be prepared to wait for a couple minutes for the fuel bowl on the Bing to run dry. General aviation engines run a couple hundred degrees higher cylinder head temps and would run on with out spark ignition,you had to starve it of fuel to kill it. G.Aman Jabiru 2200A 600 hrs -----Original Message----- From: MHerder Sent: Thu, Nov 18, 2010 9:44 pm Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down Manual on my 3300 says just turn the ignition off to shut it down... Any reason why we should or shouldn't be shutting it off buy shutting off the fuel? -------- One Rivet at a Time! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319979#319979 ========== _blank">www.aeroelectric.com " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List ========== tp://forums.matronics.com ========== _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List tp://forums.matronics.com www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List http://forums.matronics.com _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List tp://forums.matronics.com www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List http://forums.matronics.com _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List tp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:26:56 PM PST US Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down From: Martin Hone Sorry Noel, 6000 engine rpm because the the reduction ratio is 3:1 ? No way....... Here are some facts.....and bear in mind this is a small engine compared to the Lycoming R7750 - The Wasp Major engine was developed near the end of World War II to power the Boeing B-50, an improved version of the successful B-29 Superfortress. The R-4360 is a 28-cylinder, air-cooled radial engine that produces a maximum of 3,500 hp and weighs approximately 3,500 pounds (1,575 kg). R-4360s have been used to power various post-WWII USAF bombers, cargo/transports and aerial tankers, including the B-36 bomber, the B-35 Flying Wing, the C-74 Globemaster, the C-97 Stratofreighter, the Consolidated XC-99, the C-119 Flying Boxcar and the C-124 Globemaster II aircraft. It represents the most technically advanced and complex reciprocating aircraft engine produced in large numbers in the United States. The passing of the KC-97 and C-97 series aircraft from Air Force inventory in the late 1970s marked the closing of the era of both the large piston engine and the turbo-supercharger within the USAF. TECHNICAL NOTES: Model: R-4360-4 Type: 28-cylinder, four row, air-cooled radial Displacement: 4,360 cu. in. Weight: 3,404 lbs. *Maximum rpm: 2,700 * Maximum hp: 3,500 I think we are done with this and should get back onto talking Jab stuff , interesting as it may be............... Martin On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 6:57 AM, Noel Loveys wrote: > Let=92s see... P&W 4360... Lots of different configurations but a 28 cy l > version was geared .3:1 so a close estimation of the crank speed would be > around 6000 rpm. The 1830 twin Wasp is also geared but closer to 2:3 would > give a WOT somewhere under 5000rpm. > > > For those of you who like the lycoming and Continental when you see a G i n > the suffix of the engine size that usually means it is gear driven and th e > crank turns at higher speed than the prop... Sound familiar??? > > > Just google some of the Radials and it is there in the specs While you =92re > at it Google Rolls Royce Merlin 0.42:1 > > > Noel > > > From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Martin > Hone > Sent: November 23, 2010 5:46 PM > > To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down > > > Sorry, I know this is off topic, but it is an interesting discussion. I > have to ask you Noel, what aircooled gear-driven radials run at 912 speeds, > given the 912 produces max torque around 4800 rpm ? :-) > > > Martin > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 2:45 AM, Noel Loveys wrote: > > Ok but you did ask about fuel injected engines.. > > > With non-injected engines they will =93ping=94 just about all the time bu t you > will only be able to notice it when the rpm and load are in specific > quantities. For instance a friend of mine many years ago had a Ford 500 > with the 390 4bbl., dual low resistance exhausts and mo doubt a few other > goodies on it. It had a real problem for we idiot speed demons, it > backfired like a mule after 90 mph. That was long before it really got > producing what it could. After trying everything to stop the backfiring my > friend finally got rid of the car. Several years later the Royal > Newfoundland Constabulary had the same problem with a factory built hotro d > they got from GM. The Constab, had their own fuel supply so they knew it > was high octane. GM technicians from the factory spent two weeks working on > the car until they had exhausted ( pardon the pun) every possibility. On e > of the technicians then sent a sample of the fuel back to GM for a flash > test.... It was low-low octane. The Constabulary then decided to test all > the high octane tanks in the area, of some fifty tanks tested only one > actually had high octane fuel. The Constabulary then charged their test lab > with fixing octane numbers and sent notification to all the oil companies > servicing the province with warning that their fuel would be tested on a > regular basis. The reply they got form their supplier was that they woul d > no longer do octane testing for the Constabulary. > > > The reason conventionally aspirated direct drive aircraft engines get away, > most of the time, with lower octane fuel is they are specifically tuned t o > operate at high throttle settings for extended periods of time. They are > also designed to mostly work at lower rpm with a much flatter torque curv e > than a conventional auto engine. Of course those engines are only certified > to use specific fuels so the question is a bit mute. They are also > generally high displacement for the power they deliver. The interesting > thing with the big radials is they develop so much heat they actually change > shape in different phases of flight. Descent is a particularly touchy time > as it is dangerous to allow the engine to cool too much as you may need the > power on short notice and drawing power form a cold engine is a recipe fo r > not too much fun. > > > There are also many large air-cooled gear driven radial engines which rev to > the territory of the 912 and it was not uncommon for them to blow jugs on > flights even with the certified fuels. In fact there used to be a runnin g > joke that you could always tell the mechanic at an airport because he was > the one who drove the biggest, most expensive or fastest car. He made hi s > money replacing cylinders on corn cob radials. ;-> > > > Back from the diversion.... The engines we use (912 UL etc.) are designe d > to operate efficiently in the extended rpm envelope using fuels of lower > octane. Those engines which use higher compression ratios and/or turbo > charging ( 914 etc.) are designed to operate on higher octane no lead aut o > fuels. This is great as long as such fuels are available. The problem we > are now coming into is the extended use of ethanol, both as an oxidizer and > an octane booster... don=92t start me on that one! > > > Noel > > > From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE > Sent: November 21, 2010 8:08 PM > To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down > > > Noel: > > > So how do you explain it for NON-Fuel Injected engines? > > Or engines WITHOUT anti-knock equipment? > > And even those fuel injected engine WITHOUT electric injectors? > > > Remember... I said it was a LOADED QUESTION :-) > > > Barry > > > On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Noel Loveys wrote : > > Barry: > > > I think you answered your own question. The fuel injectors are electrically > operated. They spray a fine mist of fuel into the cylinders just before the > spark is given. Spraying cold fuel into the cylinder at that time causes > the cylinder to cool a little ( may or may not be appreciable ) but also it > means there isn=92t any fuel there detonate. Anti knock detectors will a lso > adjust the timing of the fuel injection to prevent knocking. > > > Noel > > > Loaded Question: If the flash point of gas is so low, below that of > internal CHT why do we not Pre-Ignition all the time? > > > Barry > > > On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 9:27 PM, wrote: > > Mike, > If you have a mixture control on your carburetor you could shut it off that > way.But if you want to kill it by turning off the fuel selector,be prepared > to wait for a couple minutes for the fuel bowl on the Bing to run dry. > General aviation engines run a couple hundred degrees higher cylinder hea d > temps and would run on with out spark ignition,you had to starve it of fuel > to kill it. > G.Aman Jabiru 2200A 600 hrs > > > -----Original Message----- > From: MHerder > To: jabiruengine-list > Sent: Thu, Nov 18, 2010 9:44 pm > Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down > > > > > Manual on my 3300 says just turn the ignition off to shut it down... Any > reason > > > why we should or shouldn't be shutting it off buy shutting off the fuel? > > > -------- > > > One Rivet at a Time! > > > Read this topic online here: > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319979#319979 > > > ========== > > > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com > > > " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > > > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > > > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ========== > > > ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Li st > > > ========== > > > tp://forums.matronics.com > > > ========== > > > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com > > .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Li st > > tp://forums.matronics.com > > > www.aeroelectric.com > > www.buildersbooks.com > > www.homebuilthelp.com > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > > http://forums.matronics.com > > > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com > > .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Li st > > tp://forums.matronics.com > > > www.aeroelectric.com > > www.buildersbooks.com > > www.homebuilthelp.com > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > > http://forums.matronics.com > > > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com > > .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Li st > > tp://forums.matronics.com > > > www.aeroelectric.com > > www.buildersbooks.com > > www.homebuilthelp.com > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > > http://forums.matronics.com > =========== =========== =========== =========== > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:45:03 PM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down Good Afternoon Noel, I think we have the gear ratio working in the wrong direction! The RPM given in the data sheet is for the engine shaft. It will turn a maximum of 2900 in the R3350TC version. My recollection without looking it up is that the gear reduction was 16/9. When the engine was turning 1600 RPM, the propellor shaft was turning 900 RPM. You could almost see the individual blades! The reduction gearing did vary on a few models, but the prop always turne d slower than the engine. I will check the TC Data and see what the Corn Cob turned, Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 11/24/2010 3:02:11 P.M. Central Standard Time, noelloveys@yahoo.ca writes: Let=99s see... P&W 4360... Lots of different configurations but a 28 cyl version was geared .3:1 so a close estimation of the crank speed would be around 6000 rpm. The 1830 twin Wasp is also geared but closer to 2:3 wou ld give a WOT somewhere under 5000rpm. For those of you who like the lycoming and Continental when you see a G in the suffix of the engine size that usually means it is gear driven and th e crank turns at higher speed than the prop... Sound familiar??? Just google some of the Radials and it is there in the specs While you =99re at it Google Rolls Royce Merlin 0.42:1 Noel ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:12:11 PM PST US Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down From: FLYaDIVE Noel: Here are a couple of links that do a good job of explaining the P&W R-4360. http://www.enginehistory.org/r-4360ops1.htm >From this site you will see 2700 RPM is basic for the engine. Remember this is 1940's 50's time period they did not do 5K RPM,think of their Tachs. This site gives the gear ratio of REDUCING the engines RPM to keep the prop tip speed below supersonic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_&_Whitney_R-4360 The Ratio is: 0.375:1, engine to prop And the Super Charger, well that had a 6.374:1 Barry On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 3:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > Let=92s see... P&W 4360... Lots of different configurations but a 28 c yl > version was geared .3:1 so a close estimation of the crank speed would be > around 6000 rpm. The 1830 twin Wasp is also geared but closer to 2:3 wou ld > give a WOT somewhere under 5000rpm. > > > For those of you who like the lycoming and Continental when you see a G i n > the suffix of the engine size that usually means it is gear driven and th e > crank turns at higher speed than the prop... Sound familiar??? > > > Just google some of the Radials and it is there in the specs While you =92re > at it Google Rolls Royce Merlin 0.42:1 > > > Noel > > > *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Martin Hone > *Sent:* November 23, 2010 5:46 PM > > *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down > > > Sorry, I know this is off topic, but it is an interesting discussion. I > have to ask you Noel, what aircooled gear-driven radials run at 912 speed s, > given the 912 produces max torque around 4800 rpm ? :-) > > > Martin > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 2:45 AM, Noel Loveys wrote: > > Ok but you did ask about fuel injected engines.. > > > With non-injected engines they will =93ping=94 just about all the time bu t you > will only be able to notice it when the rpm and load are in specific > quantities. For instance a friend of mine many years ago had a Ford 500 > with the 390 4bbl., dual low resistance exhausts and mo doubt a few other > goodies on it. It had a real problem for we idiot speed demons, it > backfired like a mule after 90 mph. That was long before it really got > producing what it could. After trying everything to stop the backfiring my > friend finally got rid of the car. Several years later the Royal > Newfoundland Constabulary had the same problem with a factory built hotro d > they got from GM. The Constab, had their own fuel supply so they knew it > was high octane. GM technicians from the factory spent two weeks working on > the car until they had exhausted ( pardon the pun) every possibility. On e > of the technicians then sent a sample of the fuel back to GM for a flash > test.... It was low-low octane. The Constabulary then decided to test a ll > the high octane tanks in the area, of some fifty tanks tested only one > actually had high octane fuel. The Constabulary then charged their test lab > with fixing octane numbers and sent notification to all the oil companies > servicing the province with warning that their fuel would be tested on a > regular basis. The reply they got form their supplier was that they woul d > no longer do octane testing for the Constabulary. > > > The reason conventionally aspirated direct drive aircraft engines get awa y, > most of the time, with lower octane fuel is they are specifically tuned t o > operate at high throttle settings for extended periods of time. They are > also designed to mostly work at lower rpm with a much flatter torque curv e > than a conventional auto engine. Of course those engines are only certif ied > to use specific fuels so the question is a bit mute. They are also > generally high displacement for the power they deliver. The interesting > thing with the big radials is they develop so much heat they actually cha nge > shape in different phases of flight. Descent is a particularly touchy ti me > as it is dangerous to allow the engine to cool too much as you may need t he > power on short notice and drawing power form a cold engine is a recipe fo r > not too much fun. > > > There are also many large air-cooled gear driven radial engines which rev > to the territory of the 912 and it was not uncommon for them to blow jugs on > flights even with the certified fuels. In fact there used to be a runnin g > joke that you could always tell the mechanic at an airport because he was > the one who drove the biggest, most expensive or fastest car. He made hi s > money replacing cylinders on corn cob radials. ;-> > > > Back from the diversion.... The engines we use (912 UL etc.) are designe d > to operate efficiently in the extended rpm envelope using fuels of lower > octane. Those engines which use higher compression ratios and/or turbo > charging ( 914 etc.) are designed to operate on higher octane no lead aut o > fuels. This is great as long as such fuels are available. The problem we > are now coming into is the extended use of ethanol, both as an oxidizer a nd > an octane booster... don=92t start me on that one! > > > Noel > > > *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *FLYaDIVE > *Sent:* November 21, 2010 8:08 PM > *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down > > > Noel: > > > So how do you explain it for NON-Fuel Injected engines? > > Or engines WITHOUT anti-knock equipment? > > And even those fuel injected engine WITHOUT electric injectors? > > > Remember... I said it was a LOADED QUESTION :-) > > > Barry > > > On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Noel Loveys wrote : > > Barry: > > > I think you answered your own question. The fuel injectors are > electrically operated. They spray a fine mist of fuel into the cylinders > just before the spark is given. Spraying cold fuel into the cylinder at > that time causes the cylinder to cool a little ( may or may not be > appreciable ) but also it means there isn=92t any fuel there detonate. Anti > knock detectors will also adjust the timing of the fuel injection to prev ent > knocking. > > > Noel > > > Loaded Question: If the flash point of gas is so low, below that of > internal CHT why do we not Pre-Ignition all the time? > > > Barry > > > On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 9:27 PM, wrote: > > Mike, > If you have a mixture control on your carburetor you could shut it off th at > way.But if you want to kill it by turning off the fuel selector,be prepar ed > to wait for a couple minutes for the fuel bowl on the Bing to run dry. > General aviation engines run a couple hundred degrees higher cylinder hea d > temps and would run on with out spark ignition,you had to starve it of fu el > to kill it. > G.Aman Jabiru 2200A 600 hrs > > > -----Original Message----- > From: MHerder > To: jabiruengine-list > Sent: Thu, Nov 18, 2010 9:44 pm > Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Engine Shut Down > up.com> > > > Manual on my 3300 says just turn the ignition off to shut it down... Any reason > > > why we should or shouldn't be shutting it off buy shutting off the fuel? > > > -------- > > > One Rivet at a Time! > > > Read this topic online here: > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319979#319979 > > > ========== > > > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com > > > " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > > > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > > > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ========== > > > ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Li st > > > ========== > > > tp://forums.matronics.com > > > ========== > > > * * > > * * > > *_blank">www.aeroelectric.com* > > *.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com* > > *="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com* > > *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > *ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-L ist* > > *tp://forums.matronics.com* > > > * * > > * * > > > *www.aeroelectric.com* > > *www.buildersbooks.com* > > *www.homebuilthelp.com* > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List* > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > * * > > *_blank">www.aeroelectric.com* > > *.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com* > > *="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com* > > *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > *ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-L ist* > > *tp://forums.matronics.com* > > > * * > > * * > > > *www.aeroelectric.com* > > *www.buildersbooks.com* > > *www.homebuilthelp.com* > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List* > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > * * > > *_blank">www.aeroelectric.com* > > *.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com* > > *="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com* > > *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > *ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-L ist* > > *tp://forums.matronics.com* > > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *www.aeroelectric.com* > > *www.buildersbooks.com* > > *www.homebuilthelp.com* > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List* > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > * > =========== =========== =========== ============* > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message jabiruengine-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/JabiruEngine-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/jabiruengine-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/jabiruengine-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.