Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:04 PM - Re: Voltage Regulator Output (FLYaDIVE)
2. 01:05 PM - Re: Voltage Regulator Output (Dave G)
3. 02:20 PM - Re: Voltage Regulator Output (Dave G)
4. 02:59 PM - Gas spill from Bing carb (Jose M. Toro)
5. 05:53 PM - Re: Gas spill from Bing carb (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
6. 06:21 PM - Re: Gas spill from Bing carb (Jose M. Toro)
7. 08:15 PM - Re: Gas spill from Bing carb (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulator Output |
Mike:
I led you in a skewed direction.
Clive was kind and sending me directly the manual for the Jabiru engine.
And in reading it there are confusions due to the misuses of words.
Jabiru bounces back and forth between Generator and Alternator.
On one page in one statement they use the term Generator <-- Which is
CORRECT.
Then they jump to the term Alternator which obviously is not correct.
The ring of coils and the moving magnets is a Generator.
Why? Because the output is AC and it is NOT being rectified (converted) to
DC within the same housing.
OK, let me further confuse you... Generators put out AC. Yet Alternators
MAKE AC and then rectify it to DC all within the same housing. Yes, there
are DC generators but they are inefficient, too big and too heavy to be used
in planes. It is much easier to produce AC and then convert it to DC.
So, let me re-answer your questions:
[Mike] - "1) What does the voltage out of the regulator look like on an
oscilloscope? Is it really pure DC or does it have some squiggles that
avionics may not do so well with?"
[Barry] - The output taken directly from the two wires at the coil is AC.
See page 55, the wires at NOTE 5.
It is a sine wave and goes positive and negative. The output from there
goes to the input of the RECTIFIER / REGULATOR. Jubiru calls it a
Regulator but that does not fully explain it function. Yet on page 56 they
do further breakdown the device with a good explanation. See page 7.4.1.7
Notice the wires going to and from the battery to pins 2 & 6. Pin 2 is
NEGATIVE and Pin 6 is POSITIVE.
And at that point you were to put a 'O' Scope you will see a PULSATING DC - The
output there is pulsating DC. How much it pulsates is determined by the
number and spacing of the magnets and coils on the armature. The schematic
on page 54 (7.4.1.6) is a bit crude in that is is missing a few components
for proper operation. They were more than likely left off for ease
of explanation. I'm sure there are a few capacitors within the housing.
They would be there to remove and prevent transients to the transistors and
offer a little filtering.
[Mike] - 2) Jabiru suggests tying the yellow wire (senses voltage and tells
whether or not the system needs charge or dumps excess to ground) and the
Red wire (charges battery) as close to the positive terminal as possible. I
would like to charge and sense voltage at the starter contactor for the
following reason... If I have an over voltage situation, I will get an alarm
from my EIS and I can simply shut off my master switch which would hopefully
prevent a problem.... Take a look at my schematic and let me know what you
think.
[Barry] - To clarify - It does NOT dump the voltage to ground. That would
be a SHORT and you will be popping CB's all the time. Exactly how the
voltage regulation is being done I would need a schematic of the VR. But,
in most cases the Sense Voltage is used to turn ON and OFF either the FIELD
- Which you do not have in a PM Alternator. Or a switching transistor to
allow current flow.
" I will get an alarm from my EIS": <--- I think you meant that as a
question. With the two EIS I have worked with YES you can set them up for a
LOW and HIGH Limit alarm. What you do with this information is up to you
and the design of your electrical system.
I would NOT want to be LIMITED to only turning on and off the Master Switch.
That totally limits your ability to run off the battery. Can you post the
schematic of your plane? Then I would be able to better answer what action
should be taken.
If you installed a CB in series with the output of the alternator you would
add protection and a means of shutting down the alternator output while
allowing the Master to remain on.
Of course just like with any Split Master/Alternator you also have the
addition requirement to REMEMBER to turn it ON.
EXPLANATION CONTINUED -
Mike, looking at the schematic they are turning ON and OFF the switching
transistors. There would be some ripple and as i mentioned before a 50K
uF Capacitor will greatly help the filtering.
[Mike] - 3) What should the voltage be at say 800 RPM, 1500 RPM and 2800
RPM?
[Barry] - Difficult question to answer.... TOO MANY VARIABLES. What you
want to see for CHARGING is 13.8 to 14.2 VDC for a 12 volt system. Less
than that and the battery will not charge. What you see is dependent on the
speed of the alternator. What drives the alternator and what ratio of drive
is there between the engine and the alternator. Some planes have an 11:1
drive increase. So even at idle say 650 RPM the alternator is spinning at
7150 RPM.
Measure the voltage right after start up and see what is happening.
For your other question: " also have concerns with what happens if the red
and yellow are disconnected. Where would the voltage go, or would it just be
an open circuit?" I would require a schematic of the VR.
Mike - I do have the schematic but it does not indicate what the red &
yellow wires are. Taking a guess the RED wire should be B+ which goes to
the Battery Positive terminal. The YELLOW is SENSE and goes to the BUSS.
So, if RED is disconnected the output goes to ZERO in the way the battery
will not charge.
And if the YELLOW is disconnected ... I'm not sure... It should put a low
voltage on emitter side of the transistor as compared to the base being held
at some Zener voltage ... But, I'm still not 100% sure. Let me think about
it.
Hope this helps?
Barry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To clarify, my main concern is with damaging avionics since my charging
> would rin past the avionics bus on the way to the positive side of my
> battery. I also have concerns with what happens if the red and yellow are
> disconnected. Where would the voltage go, or would it just be an open
> circuit?
>
> --------
> One Rivet at a Time!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324583#324583
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Voltage Regulator Output |
I am not in any way a stickler for terminology and correctness, I figure if
most people understand what you are trying to communicate, job done.
But I was taught, way back in the dark ages of coal and steam that anything
that converted mechanical energy into electricity was in fact a generator
(of electricity). There were dynamos which used commutators to issue forth
DC electricity, called generators in the US and AC generators called
alternators in auto applications, which were externally rectified. The
advent of the internal rectifier came later. I think in the case of
practical usage any AC generator could be called either generator or
alternator without causing undue hardship to the reader. Both dynamos and ac
generators are noisy, as are many voltage regulators, part of my job in
years past was to measure and mitigate this noise.
My advice to the original poster of the question is this. The ripple or
noise is not likely to harm your avionics, but may in some cases reduce it's
sensitivity to signal. If you are getting satisfactory performance, and not
hearing any objectionable noise I would not worry much about it. If you are
hearing noise or you feel it is reducing your reception add a filter for the
radio comprised of an induction (filter) coil and a capacitor. I would do
this only for the radios, I doubt if anything else would care. Put the cap
on the output of the regulator and the filter coid on the power feed to the
radio.
If others feel differently, fine with me.
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: December-27-10 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Voltage Regulator Output
Mike:
I led you in a skewed direction.
Clive was kind and sending me directly the manual for the Jabiru engine.
And in reading it there are confusions due to the misuses of words.
Jabiru bounces back and forth between Generator and Alternator.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Voltage Regulator Output |
In further reading the thread I noticed some information about voltage
regulators, and DC generators that appeared to be incorrect.
First DC generators in the form of what I would call a dynamo and Americans
would call a generator are not uncommon on certified aircraft of a certain
age. They can be seen in the ACS catalogue or inside the cowling of a Cessna
150.
Voltage regulator/rectifiers as fitted to the permanent magnet AC generators
of Rotax and Jabiru engines are often of the shunt type and do in fact dump
excess voltage directly to ground, the alternative is a series type
regulator which places it's regulating device in series with the load. The
advantages of each are available on the internet and most of what I have
seen appears correct. The one supplied with the Jabiru looks like a shunt
regulator. They are generally very reliable.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Gas spill from Bing carb |
Hi All:
I stated my Jab 2200 today. I have not flown yet. It had the air filter
disconnected. I observed that some gas spilled from the Bing carb. A friend of
mine thinks that this is due to the floats level, that it needs to be adjusted
to close earlier. Is it this correct? Anybody has a different recommendation.
Best Regards!
Jose Toro
Rans S6ES / Jab 2200 solid lifters (waiting for FAA inspection)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Gas spill from Bing carb |
You should have a airfilter on your Jabiru engine and a small tube coming
from the port on the side of the carb into the breather box for it to wor
k correctly if not you will think it is flooding out or it will show signs
of fuel running out of your carb like you have explained dont adjust carb
untill you have properly hooked this up and I think it will fix your prob
lem
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
nics.com
Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 5:57 pm
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Gas spill from Bing carb
Hi All:
I stated my Jab 2200 today. I have not flown yet. It had the air filter
disconnected. I observed that some gas spilled from the Bing carb. A fr
iend of mine thinks that this is due to the floats level, that it needs to
be adjusted to close earlier. Is it this correct? Anybody has a differe
nt recommendation.
Best Regards!
Jose Toro
Rans S6ES / Jab 2200 solid lifters (waiting for FAA inspection)
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Gas spill from Bing carb |
Ellery:
I use a K&N air filter connected to the carburetor instead of an air box. Carb
ice should not be an issue here in the Caribbean. I connect the small line that
you mentioned in a hole in the air filter. I will install the oil filter and
follow your recommendation not to adjust the carb. Will keep you informed.
What you did with the fuel pump breather? I have not connected a line to it.
Thanks!
Jose
________________________________
From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld@aol.com>
Sent: Mon, December 27, 2010 9:50:37 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Gas spill from Bing carb
You should have a air filter on your Jabiru engine and a small tube coming from
the port on the side of the carb into the breather box for it to work correctly
if not you will think it is flooding out or it will show signs of fuel running
out of your carb like you have explained dont adjust carb until you have
properly hooked this up and I think it will fix your problem
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 5:57 pm
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Gas spill from Bing carb
Hi All:
I stated my Jab 2200 today. I have not flown yet. It had the air filter
disconnected. I observed that some gas spilled from the Bing carb. A friend of
mine thinks that this is due to the floats level, that it needs to be adjusted
to close earlier. Is it this correct? Anybody has a different recommendation.
Best Regards!
Jose Toro
Rans S6ES / Jab 2200 solid lifters (waiting for FAA inspection)
==================================== =_blank>www.aeroelectric.com m/"
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Gas spill from Bing carb |
I just vented it away from anything that Might get hot
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 9:19 pm
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Gas spill from Bing carb
Ellery:
I use a K&N air filter connected to the carburetor instead of an air box.
Carb ice should not be an issue here in the Caribbean. I connect the sm
all line that you mentioned in a hole in the air filter. I will install
the oil filter and follow your recommendation not to adjust the carb. Wi
ll keep you informed.
What you did with the fuel pump breather? I have not connected a line to
it.
Thanks!
Jose
From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld@aol.com>
Sent: Mon, December 27, 2010 9:50:37 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Gas spill from Bing carb
You should have a air filter on your Jabiru engine and a small tube coming
from the port on the side of the carb into the breather box for it to wor
k correctly if not you will think it is flooding out or it will show signs
of fuel running out of your carb like you have explained dont adjust carb
until you have properly hooked this up and I think it will fix your probl
em
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
nics.com
Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 5:57 pm
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Gas spill from Bing carb
Hi All:
I stated my Jab 2200 today. I have not flown yet. It had the air filter
disconnected. I observed that some gas spilled from the Bing carb. A fr
iend of mine thinks that this is due to the floats level, that it needs to
be adjusted to close earlier. Is it this correct? Anybody has a differe
nt recommendation.
Best Regards!
Jose Toro
Rans S6ES / Jab 2200 solid lifters (waiting for FAA inspection)
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ist" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
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===========
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-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-= by:
-=
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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