---------------------------------------------------------- JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/12/11: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:42 AM - Fuel Pressure (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net) 2. 08:41 AM - Re: Re: Gas spill from Bing carb (FLYaDIVE) 3. 08:53 AM - Re: Fuel Pressure (Lynn Matteson) 4. 09:06 AM - FUEL TANK SEALANTS (FLYaDIVE) 5. 10:10 AM - Re: FUEL TANK SEALANTS (Pete Krotje) 6. 10:12 AM - Re: Gas spill from Bing carb (ces308) 7. 10:43 AM - Carb - Shutdown/Fuel (Don Honabach) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:17 AM PST US From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Fuel Pressure List One other thing on leaking carby's. Make sure you have the new Black floats. The Old white ones ( Not good for ethanol ) on mine would not hold at 1.5 lbs. of pressure. I changed the needle to the new black tip and it made no difference. I put the carb in a clear plastic bowl and set the fuel level with the bottom off the Carb. I pressurized it using a very fine calibrated gauge and it would leak profusely at less than 2 psi. The black floats fixed the problem. Bobby ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:05 AM PST US Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Gas spill from Bing carb From: FLYaDIVE Chris: If the fuel pressure is high - How do you/did you reduce it? Barry > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:53:30 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Fuel Pressure With all this talk about the float needle, let's remember that there are black-tipped needles (the rubber end is black) and needles with silver, gold, and *black* springs, (or at least a silver, gold, or black colored spring end, which is a code for the strength of the spring within the needle) and make sure you know which one you're referring to. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062 Sensenich 62"x 55.5 Wood (winter) until the Prince prop arrives Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection Status: flying...1078+ hrs (since 3-27-2006) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:06:04 AM PST US Subject: JabiruEngine-List: FUEL TANK SEALANTS From: FLYaDIVE Hello Gaggle: I have been fighting leaking fuel tans for a while. The tanks are aluminum and sealed with PRO SEAL or the equivalent. Since my engine likes both AvGas and MoGas and MoGas has ethanol I would like a sealant that can stand up to both. Stop - I know about the trick of removing the ethanol from MoGas but that is only about 90% effective. I would like to run straight MoGas. Would anyone out there have any experience in this area? Thank you for the assistance. Barry ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:10:11 AM PST US From: "Pete Krotje" Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: FUEL TANK SEALANTS This will be long so please bear with me, The question of solvents in auto gas is a good bit more involved than just ethanol. We've recently had customers with fiberglass tanks and others with poly tanks who have had problems with auto gas even with no ethanol. In some cases the auto gas has dissolved the tank sealant even though the sealant is supposed to be ethanol resistant. In other cases the auto gas has reacted with something to form stringy mucus like strands that are quite good a gumming up the carb slide. In two other cases something in auto gas coated the inside of the engine with a black combustion product that looked much like burned carmelized sugar (coated valves and valve guides resulting in stuck valves) At this point Jabiru USA is unable to pinpoint the cause of the fuel anomalies. We have been investigating what may cause tank sealants to dissolve and have been surprised at what we have found. Anyone can find the same info if you dig hard enough and pursue the initial Google findings. A week spent digging and following various leads will result in dozens of reports on auto gas quality issues. We have seen reports detailing contaminants in fuel found in the Detroit area that included ethanol, methanol, MEK, acetone, toluene, TAME and MTBE. Tank sealants are not designed to stand up to many of those contaminants. Additionally, many tank sealants are labeled as resistant to 10% or 15% ethanol concentrations. If the gas - ethanol mix stays blended the concentrations may stay below those limits. However - when some condensation enters the tank the resulting moisture combines with ethanol very readily (ethanol will combine with water much faster or more easily than with gasoline). At some point the water ethanol mixture becomes heavier than gas and sinks to the bottom of the tank where it may remain with the ethanol concentration higher than 15%. This concentration exceeds the tolerance of many tank sealants and can dissolve the sealant. Since aircraft are prone to sitting for longer periods than cars, the ethanol mix at the bottom of the tank can be undisturbed sometimes for weeks or even months at t time while dissolving the sealant. Again, We are not even close to having many answers but offer these observations on what we've seen from auto gas use over the last 12 years. We really have not been able to come to any solid conclusions other than to think about installing welded aluminum tanks (not an option for many planes). On the other hand - we've yet to see a tank problem with the sealants we use when the aircraft is flown exclusively on avgas 100LL. It costs a bit more but we view it as cheap insurance for our planes with tanks sealed with any of the commercial sealants out there today. Pete Krotje Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC 931-680-2800 www.usjabiru.com From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 11:04 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: FUEL TANK SEALANTS Hello Gaggle: I have been fighting leaking fuel tans for a while. The tanks are aluminum and sealed with PRO SEAL or the equivalent. Since my engine likes both AvGas and MoGas and MoGas has ethanol I would like a sealant that can stand up to both. Stop - I know about the trick of removing the ethanol from MoGas but that is only about 90% effective. I would like to run straight MoGas. Would anyone out there have any experience in this area? Thank you for the assistance. Barry ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:12:23 AM PST US Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Gas spill from Bing carb From: "ces308" Barry.... Well ..I guess the correct way is to change the return spring inside the fuel pump...it's about 1" in diameter and about an inch and a half long,with a new one....we took the old one and cut off about 7/16 of an inch...this made the spring shorter and weaker,and that dropped the pressure to 1.7 at idle and 3 at WOT....but my buddy made a luck guess on the cut, and also another spring will most likely have a different tension than mine ...and I'm guessing also when you cut it off,it's just a matter of time before it starts to stiffen up and increase the pressure too...I have no idea why the spring gets stiffer...we have so theories,but I m not sure anyone is buying it...lol I believe I'm going to connect a fuel pressure sensor to my Grand Rapids Tech engine monitor and when I see the pressure going up past 4 I'll change the spring again...I think the pressure on mine has been going up for the last year until the float needle finally said,you know what? I'm not playing any more ! and started flooding out the carb. There is a chance the floats could be bad...but my money is on the fuel pump....at least I would start there first...if thats ok ,then take the carb bowl off and check everything in there. Good luck ! chris ambrose M3X/Jabiru A-2200 170. hrs when this started N327CS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326715#326715 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:43:48 AM PST US From: Don Honabach Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Carb - Shutdown/Fuel SeKAmW0gY3VyaW91cyB3aGF0IG90aGVyIGZvbGtzIGFyZSBkb2luZyBvbiBzaHV0ZG93bi4NCg0K SeKAmXZlIGdvdCBpbiB0aGUgaGFiaXQgYW5kIHNodXR0aW5nIG9mZiBteSBmdWVsIGFuZCBydW5u aW5nIHRoZSBlbmdpbmUgZHJ5IHRvIHByZXZlbnQgZnVlbCBmcm9tIHNpdHRpbmcgaW4gdGhlIGNh cmIgYm93bCBhbmQgcG9zc2libHkgdGFybmlzaGluZyBhbmQgc28gb24uDQoNCkkgZG9u4oCZdCB0 aGluayBpdCBpcyBhbiBpc3N1ZSB3aXRoIEFWR0FTIGFzIG11Y2ggYXMgd2l0aCBNT0dBUywgYW5k IEkgdGVuZCB0byBydW4gYWJvdXQgOTAlIEFWR0FTIGFuZCAxMCUgTU9HQVMgKEkgZ2V0IHRoZSBN T0dBUyB3aGVuIEnigJltIGZlZWxpbmcgY2hlYXAgYW5kIGhhdmUgYSBiaXQgbW9yZSB0aW1lIHRv IHN0b3AgYnkgb24gbXkgd2F5IHRvIHRoZSBhaXJwb3J0KS4NCg0KQW55IHBvdGVudGlhbCBkb3du c2lkZXMgdG8gcnVubmluZyB0aGUgZW5naW5lIGRyeT8gSXMgaXQgYmV0dGVyIHRvIGhhdmUgYSB3 ZXQgY2FyYiBib3dsIG9yID8/Pw0KDQpEb24NCg0KRnJvbTogb3duZXItamFiaXJ1ZW5naW5lLWxp c3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gW21haWx0bzpvd25lci1qYWJpcnVlbmdpbmUtbGlzdC1z ZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbV0gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIEJvYmJ5UGF1bGtAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQN ClNlbnQ6IFdlZG5lc2RheSwgSmFudWFyeSAxMiwgMjAxMSA4OjE3IEFNDQpUbzogamFiaXJ1ZW5n aW5lLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KU3ViamVjdDogSmFiaXJ1RW5naW5lLUxpc3Q6IEZ1ZWwg UHJlc3N1cmUNCg0KTGlzdA0KT25lIG90aGVyIHRoaW5nIG9uIGxlYWtpbmcgY2FyYnkncy4NCk1h a2Ugc3VyZSB5b3UgaGF2ZSB0aGUgbmV3IEJsYWNrIGZsb2F0cy4gVGhlIE9sZCB3aGl0ZSBvbmVz ICggTm90IGdvb2QgZm9yIGV0aGFub2wgKSBvbiBtaW5lIHdvdWxkIG5vdCBob2xkIGF0IDEuNSBs YnMuIG9mIHByZXNzdXJlLiBJIGNoYW5nZWQgdGhlIG5lZWRsZSB0byB0aGUgbmV3IGJsYWNrIHRp cCBhbmQgaXQgbWFkZSBubyBkaWZmZXJlbmNlLiBJIHB1dCB0aGUgY2FyYiBpbiBhIGNsZWFyIHBs YXN0aWMgYm93bCBhbmQgc2V0IHRoZSBmdWVsIGxldmVsIHdpdGggdGhlIGJvdHRvbSBvZmYgdGhl IENhcmIuIEkgcHJlc3N1cml6ZWQgaXQgdXNpbmcgYSB2ZXJ5IGZpbmUgY2FsaWJyYXRlZCBnYXVn ZSBhbmQgaXQgd291bGQgbGVhayBwcm9mdXNlbHkgYXQgbGVzcyB0aGFuIDIgcHNpLg0KVGhlIGJs YWNrIGZsb2F0cyBmaXhlZCB0aGUgcHJvYmxlbS4NCg0KQm9iYnkNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpfLT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0K DQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgLSBUaGUgSmFiaXJ1RW5naW5lLUxpc3QgRW1haWwgRm9ydW0gLQ0KDQpf LT0gVXNlIHRoZSBNYXRyb25pY3MgTGlzdCBGZWF0dXJlcyBOYXZpZ2F0b3IgdG8gYnJvd3NlDQoN Cl8tPSB0aGUgbWFueSBMaXN0IHV0aWxpdGllcyBzdWNoIGFzIExpc3QgVW4vU3Vic2NyaXB0aW9u LA0KDQpfLT0gQXJjaGl2ZSBTZWFyY2ggJiBEb3dubG9hZCwgNy1EYXkgQnJvd3NlLCBDaGF0LCBG QVEsDQoNCl8tPSBQaG90b3NoYXJlLCBhbmQgbXVjaCBtdWNoIG1vcmU6DQoNCl8tPQ0KDQpfLT0g ICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9KYWJpcnVFbmdpbmUtTGlz dA0KDQpfLT0NCg0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCg0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLSBNQVRST05JQ1MgV0VCIEZP UlVNUyAtDQoNCl8tPSBTYW1lIGdyZWF0IGNvbnRlbnQgYWxzbyBhdmFpbGFibGUgdmlhIHRoZSBX ZWIgRm9ydW1zIQ0KDQpfLT0NCg0KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNv bQ0KDQpfLT0NCg0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCg0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0gTGlzdCBDb250cmlidXRpb24g V2ViIFNpdGUgLQ0KDQpfLT0gIFRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgeW91ciBnZW5lcm91cyBzdXBwb3J0IQ0K DQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAtTWF0dCBEcmFsbGUsIExpc3QgQWRt aW4uDQoNCl8tPSAgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uDQoN Cl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09DQoNCg0K ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message jabiruengine-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/JabiruEngine-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/jabiruengine-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/jabiruengine-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.