Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:55 AM - Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 03/23/11 (John Lawton)
2. 10:08 AM - Re: Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 03/23/11 (FLYaDIVE)
3. 12:52 PM - Exhaust Leaks (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net)
4. 02:27 PM - Re: Exhaust Leaks (Rob Turk)
5. 02:55 PM - Re: Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 03/23/11 (Martin Hone)
6. 03:14 PM - Re: Exhaust Leaks (James, Clive R)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 03/23/11 |
>>>>>That is pretty much SOP - putting a bit of oil on the filter gasket and
filling the filter with fresh prior to fitting.<<<<<
Hello Martin,
Yes, I know. Been doing it that way for 30+ years. I thought it was
interesting information to share with the group. I hope you found it
helpful.
>>>>>>>But my understanding is that the reason you apply oil to the gasket
is to
prevent it grabbing when you tighten it up and possibly tearing or winding
out of shape.<<<<<<
That is part of it. The carbon bound in the old oil helps the new gasket
stick after it gets hot the first time. That is the point of using old oil
on the gasket.
>>>>>And are you serious about 912's shaking ? I'd be balancing your prop
as
soon as possible !<<<<<<
Nothing wrong with my prop at all. The 912s is a high compression 4 cylinder
engine that uses two carbs. It will never run as smooth as a 6 cylinder.
Ever. Balance issues with the Rotax are inherent in the design of the
engine, not the balance of the prop. Of the two dozen or so Rotax 9xx's I've
flown behind (or in front of) this particular one in my Ximango is the
smoothest of all and it still shakes like a banshee at start up and shut
down compared to the Jabiru, even with the prop perfectly balanced and the
carbs perfectly synced.
FWIW, I've been operating and maintaining a 3300 and a 912s side by side for
nigh onto 5 years now with a combined TT approaching 1000 hours. There's
really no reason to be biased one way or the other on either engine. They're
both good engines. I have no idea why the rivalry always sets up between
engine owners.There is stuff both groups can learn from the other. I get
the same bias from Rotax owners, especially in the Europa crowd in Europe.
(Rotax is the only way!) Yeah, well, I'm here to tell you it's BS on both
ends. The truth is both engines have their high points and low points.
Gripes I hear from both sides are generally a product of owner ignorance.
You would not believe some of the crap I've heard out of Rotax owners about
the Jab. Overall, I don't see an advantage one has over the other beyond
price. The Rotax, with jacketed heads, is perfectly suited for use in a
motorglider, light, powerful, low fuel consumption, etc. The Jab is better
suited for a touring airplane like the Europa, fast, smooth, powerful,
although with a slight weight and fuel consumption penalty. However, as an
example, the Jab wouldn't last two seasons in a motorglider. Much like when
the Limbach was used in motorgliders shock cooling would likely do in the
heads and probably the crank in relatively short order. Ask an early Stemme
or Ximango owner, or a Taifun owner. They'll tell you all about it. This
problem simply doesn't exist with the Rotax, thanks to the jacketed heads.
As with everything, there's always give and take.
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
Europa N245E - Flying
Jabiru 3300
Ximango N135XS - Flying
Rotax 912s (certified)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 03/23/11 |
Oh BULL-DINKEY!
Carbon in the oil... Come on get real! What are you talking about, parts
per million!
I don't know who is worse old Wife's and their tails ... Or Young wanta-bees
and their regurgitation of oral deification.
The oil is put on to prevent dragging of the 'O' ring and distortion. <---
See the PERIOD!
Old oil Vs New oil... BULL! Use what ever is available.. As one fellow
said... The new oil ain't open yet! GREAT ANSWER.
BUT! Please stop with the BULL!
Hey even BullS#!+ will act as lubrication until it dries up. Then you can
tape it to your wings ... Because we all know how well Cow Chips Fly.
Barry
On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 8:20 AM, John Lawton <wingdingy@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>That is pretty much SOP - putting a bit of oil on the filter gasket
> and
> filling the filter with fresh prior to fitting.<<<<<
>
> Hello Martin,
>
> Yes, I know. Been doing it that way for 30+ years. I thought it was
> interesting information to share with the group. I hope you found it
> helpful.
>
> >>>>>>>But my understanding is that the reason you apply oil to the gasket
> is to
> prevent it grabbing when you tighten it up and possibly tearing or winding
> out of shape.<<<<<<
>
> That is part of it. The carbon bound in the old oil helps the new gasket
> stick after it gets hot the first time. That is the point of using old oil
> on the gasket.
>
>
> >>>>>And are you serious about 912's shaking ? I'd be balancing your prop
> as
> soon as possible !<<<<<<
>
> Nothing wrong with my prop at all. The 912s is a high compression 4
> cylinder engine that uses two carbs. It will never run as smooth as a 6
> cylinder. Ever. Balance issues with the Rotax are inherent in the design of
> the engine, not the balance of the prop. Of the two dozen or so Rotax 9xx's
> I've flown behind (or in front of) this particular one in my Ximango is the
> smoothest of all and it still shakes like a banshee at start up and shut
> down compared to the Jabiru, even with the prop perfectly balanced and the
> carbs perfectly synced.
>
> FWIW, I've been operating and maintaining a 3300 and a 912s side by side
> for nigh onto 5 years now with a combined TT approaching 1000 hours. There's
> really no reason to be biased one way or the other on either engine. They're
> both good engines. I have no idea why the rivalry always sets up between
> engine owners.There is stuff both groups can learn from the other. I get
> the same bias from Rotax owners, especially in the Europa crowd in Europe.
> (Rotax is the only way!) Yeah, well, I'm here to tell you it's BS on both
> ends. The truth is both engines have their high points and low points.
> Gripes I hear from both sides are generally a product of owner ignorance.
> You would not believe some of the crap I've heard out of Rotax owners about
> the Jab. Overall, I don't see an advantage one has over the other beyond
> price. The Rotax, with jacketed heads, is perfectly suited for use in a
> motorglider, light, powerful, low fuel consumption, etc. The Jab is better
> suited for a touring airplane like the Europa, fast, smooth, powerful,
> although with a slight weight and fuel consumption penalty. However, as an
> example, the Jab wouldn't last two seasons in a motorglider. Much like when
> the Limbach was used in motorgliders shock cooling would likely do in the
> heads and probably the crank in relatively short order. Ask an early Stemme
> or Ximango owner, or a Taifun owner. They'll tell you all about it. This
> problem simply doesn't exist with the Rotax, thanks to the jacketed heads.
>
> As with everything, there's always give and take.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Lawton
> Whitwell, TN (TN89)
> Europa N245E - Flying
> Jabiru 3300
> Ximango N135XS - Flying
> Rotax 912s (certified)
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 3
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List,
Has anyone found a way to stop the Jabiru muffler / exhaust pipe connections (
6 ) from leaking?? These connections were designed to flex so the pipes would
not crack but there is too much clearance between the pipes and muffler connection.
Back pressure from the muffler causes the exhaust to flow back out around
the pipes. There must be a better way. When my carb was running rich the pipes
had black streaks emanating from the muffler back up the pipes. The red High
Temp silicone will not stay in the cracks or on the pipes & muffler sealant
does not work either. Stopping the CO at the source would help reduce the likelihood
of contamination in the cockpit. Any Ideas!!
Bobby
Zodiac 601 XL "B"
Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141
Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop
Bing Carb 260 Main & 295 Needle Jet
Status - Flying 116 hrs.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Leaks |
Not sure what the right name is for this in the US, but over here I
bought a piece of door sealing rope for a fireplace. This stuff can take
some serious temperatures. I took strands of this rope and stuffed the
gaps in the connections with it. as tight as I could. Then I added a
stainless clamp and pushed it up on the strands to keep them in. Not
perfect, but it does help.
Rob
On 3/24/2011 8:49 PM, BobbyPaulk@comcast.net wrote:
>
> List,
>
> Has anyone found a way to stop the Jabiru muffler / exhaust pipe
> connections ( 6 ) from leaking?? These connections were designed to
> flex so the pipes would not crack but there is too much clearance
> between the pipes and muffler connection. Back pressure from the
> muffler causes the exhaust to flow back out around the pipes. There
> must be a better way. When my carb was running rich the pipes had
> black streaks emanating from the muffler back up the pipes. The red
> High Temp silicone will not stay in the cracks or on the pipes &
> muffler sealant does not work either. Stopping the CO at the source
> would help reduce the likelihood of contamination in the cockpit. Any
> Ideas!!
>
> Bobby
> Zodiac 601 XL "B"
> Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141
> Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop
> Bing Carb 260 Main & 295 Needle Jet
> Status - Flying 116 hrs.
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 03/23/11 |
Hi John,
I now see that you were talking about the start up and shut-down vibes !
The only answer there might be a free-wheeling clutch. In flight, I have
found the 912 series to be much smoother than any Jab 6, not that I minded
the relatively low frequency vibes anyway, just a bit surprising with a flat
six.
I don't know if you aware, but Rotec is making watercooled heads for the
Jabs, and I am half-way through fitting a set at the moment. I'll let you
know how that goes.
As an aside, there is a new version of the CAW SportCruiser expected later
this year that is not only aerobatic but will have the option of the UL360i
, which started life as a Jab 2.2 replacement. I'll be following that with
interest !
Cheers
Martin
On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 10:20 PM, John Lawton <wingdingy@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>That is pretty much SOP - putting a bit of oil on the filter gasket
> and
> filling the filter with fresh prior to fitting.<<<<<
>
> Hello Martin,
>
> Yes, I know. Been doing it that way for 30+ years. I thought it was
> interesting information to share with the group. I hope you found it
> helpful.
>
> >>>>>>>But my understanding is that the reason you apply oil to the gasket
> is to
> prevent it grabbing when you tighten it up and possibly tearing or winding
> out of shape.<<<<<<
>
> That is part of it. The carbon bound in the old oil helps the new gasket
> stick after it gets hot the first time. That is the point of using old oil
> on the gasket.
>
>
> >>>>>And are you serious about 912's shaking ? I'd be balancing your prop
> as
> soon as possible !<<<<<<
>
> Nothing wrong with my prop at all. The 912s is a high compression 4
> cylinder engine that uses two carbs. It will never run as smooth as a 6
> cylinder. Ever. Balance issues with the Rotax are inherent in the design of
> the engine, not the balance of the prop. Of the two dozen or so Rotax 9xx's
> I've flown behind (or in front of) this particular one in my Ximango is the
> smoothest of all and it still shakes like a banshee at start up and shut
> down compared to the Jabiru, even with the prop perfectly balanced and the
> carbs perfectly synced.
>
> FWIW, I've been operating and maintaining a 3300 and a 912s side by side
> for nigh onto 5 years now with a combined TT approaching 1000 hours. There's
> really no reason to be biased one way or the other on either engine. They're
> both good engines. I have no idea why the rivalry always sets up between
> engine owners.There is stuff both groups can learn from the other. I get
> the same bias from Rotax owners, especially in the Europa crowd in Europe.
> (Rotax is the only way!) Yeah, well, I'm here to tell you it's BS on both
> ends. The truth is both engines have their high points and low points.
> Gripes I hear from both sides are generally a product of owner ignorance.
> You would not believe some of the crap I've heard out of Rotax owners about
> the Jab. Overall, I don't see an advantage one has over the other beyond
> price. The Rotax, with jacketed heads, is perfectly suited for use in a
> motorglider, light, powerful, low fuel consumption, etc. The Jab is better
> suited for a touring airplane like the Europa, fast, smooth, powerful,
> although with a slight weight and fuel consumption penalty. However, as an
> example, the Jab wouldn't last two seasons in a motorglider. Much like when
> the Limbach was used in motorgliders shock cooling would likely do in the
> heads and probably the crank in relatively short order. Ask an early Stemme
> or Ximango owner, or a Taifun owner. They'll tell you all about it. This
> problem simply doesn't exist with the Rotax, thanks to the jacketed heads.
>
> As with everything, there's always give and take.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Lawton
> Whitwell, TN (TN89)
> Europa N245E - Flying
> Jabiru 3300
> Ximango N135XS - Flying
> Rotax 912s (certified)
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 6
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This is my solution. Uses foil tape and fibreglass tape (1" 1/4 tape no
resin, just dry), topped off with locking wire. last application was 250
hrs ago and it's still doing the job. I only renewed it as I had the
exhaust off for something else.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/880999079/pic/l
ist
There's another one
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/866238076/pic/l
ist
Though this is a little more permanent it is less simple to apply though
looks like what Jabiru should supply....
Regards, Clive
________________________________
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobbyPaulk@comcast.net
Sent: 24 March 2011 19:50
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Exhaust Leaks
List,
Has anyone found a way to stop the Jabiru muffler / exhaust pipe
connections ( 6 ) from leaking?? These connections were designed to flex
so the pipes would not crack but there is too much clearance between the
pipes and muffler connection. Back pressure from the muffler causes the
exhaust to flow back out around the pipes. There must be a better way.
When my carb was running rich the pipes had black streaks emanating from
the muffler back up the pipes. The red High Temp silicone will not stay
in the cracks or on the pipes & muffler sealant does not work either.
Stopping the CO at the source would help reduce the likelihood of
contamination in the cockpit. Any Ideas!!
Bobby
Zodiac 601 XL "B"
Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141
Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop
Bing Carb 260 Main & 295 Needle Jet
Status - Flying 116 hrs.
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