Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:31 AM - Re: CHT issues on a 3300 (James, Clive R)
2. 03:48 AM - Re: CHT issues on a 3300 (Tex Mantell)
3. 01:33 PM - Re: CHT issues on a 3300 (flylightning)
4. 01:39 PM - Re: CHT issues on a 3300 (flylightning)
5. 04:34 PM - Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (j. davis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | CHT issues on a 3300 |
Hi Jeff, those look to be the narrrow air ducts with plugs caps outside.
There is a bigger set if your cowls will take them?
Regarding the inlet holes I know there is a school of thought that with
the shape you have the air can struggle to go in and would rather go
over the top of the cowl.
Try a 'brow' to the holes, tape a strip of card or something over the
top coming forward to see if you aren't capturing the air flow.
What's going on at the back cylinder? Is there a space for the air to
escape without doing anything? My early 2200 ducts had a hole at the
back you could put your hand up (see sketch).
The air will always take the easy way out. You do have the blanks in
between the barrels to stop the air getting out that way? I can see a
way out at the front on the front cylinder, close those gaps also.
Aside from that......
Good luck, regards, Clive
________________________________
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jeffrey J Paris
Sent: 06 June 2011 00:47
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: CHT issues on a 3300
Dear Gurus of the Jabiru Engine World,
I am currently back in flight test mode after finishing the "B" mods to
my Zenith CH601XL. Before the Mods I was having CHT issues with the
engine after I had installed the recommended " economy carb tuning kit"
from Jabiru USA when we attended their excellent engine seminar. Since
then I have been battling High CHT's on my #2, #3, #4, #5 cylinders. #1
runs cool and #6 is in the 260 F range.
I have attempted all sorts of methods in an attempt to improve the
cooling of my heads. (See attached pictures) During my second to last
flight I removed all of my "enhancements" and just went back to factory
FWF. Here are the known Facts of my engine:
A) All CHT senders are placed between the plug and a washer (per Pete
Krotje of Jab USA)
B) I added a fiberglass cross flow to my rubber elbow to "smooth" out
the air in my induction system into the carb.
C) Jettting in the Carb Main Jet #255 Needle Jet #285 ( Per Ben Krotje
Jab USA)
D) My Flight Today in stabilized cruise of 2300 RPM to get my lowest
CHT #'s:
Cylinder # EGT CHT
1 1320 256
2 1302 313
3 1306 335
4 1343 324
5 1212 296
6 1308 251
E) Oil temp 198 degrees F
F) Pulled plugs burning a nice tan color, exhaust soot is a nice grayish
tan as well.
G) Engine starts on first throw of the starter key, but I have to get
throttle up or she stalls with the choke-on ( result of Economy tuning
mods)
H)m Warm engine start is a no brainer.
Any RPMs past 2300 up to 3000 results in cylinders 2, 3,4, 5
approaching and hitting 350 degress F. I pull back on the throttle and
aim my nose down to get things at least into the "yellow zone" of my
AuRacle Engine Monitor indications. I have tried all sorts of baffling,
extending the lip on my cowls exit for airflow, played with the jetting
and induction system of my carb, and listened to all the suggestion
threads on the internet and still haven't got things under control.
Any ideas or insights, pictures would be of great help. Thanks for your
time and consideration.
Cheers,
Jeff Paris Jab 3300 Zenith Ch601XLB and Jab 3300 Europa Monowheel
Classic Rochester, NY KSDC
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: CHT issues on a 3300 |
Jeff, call me tonight. Tex 223-3220
----- Original Message -----
From: James, Clive R
To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 4:28 AM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT issues on a 3300
Hi Jeff, those look to be the narrrow air ducts with plugs caps
outside. There is a bigger set if your cowls will take them?
Regarding the inlet holes I know there is a school of thought that
with the shape you have the air can struggle to go in and would rather
go over the top of the cowl.
Try a 'brow' to the holes, tape a strip of card or something over the
top coming forward to see if you aren't capturing the air flow.
What's going on at the back cylinder? Is there a space for the air to
escape without doing anything? My early 2200 ducts had a hole at the
back you could put your hand up (see sketch).
The air will always take the easy way out. You do have the blanks in
between the barrels to stop the air getting out that way? I can see a
way out at the front on the front cylinder, close those gaps also.
Aside from that......
Good luck, regards, Clive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jeffrey J Paris
Sent: 06 June 2011 00:47
To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com; jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: CHT issues on a 3300
Dear Gurus of the Jabiru Engine World,
I am currently back in flight test mode after finishing the "B" mods
to my Zenith CH601XL. Before the Mods I was having CHT issues with the
engine after I had installed the recommended " economy carb tuning kit"
from Jabiru USA when we attended their excellent engine seminar. Since
then I have been battling High CHT's on my #2, #3, #4, #5 cylinders. #1
runs cool and #6 is in the 260 F range.
I have attempted all sorts of methods in an attempt to improve the
cooling of my heads. (See attached pictures) During my second to last
flight I removed all of my "enhancements" and just went back to factory
FWF. Here are the known Facts of my engine:
A) All CHT senders are placed between the plug and a washer (per Pete
Krotje of Jab USA)
B) I added a fiberglass cross flow to my rubber elbow to "smooth" out
the air in my induction system into the carb.
C) Jettting in the Carb Main Jet #255 Needle Jet #285 ( Per Ben
Krotje Jab USA)
D) My Flight Today in stabilized cruise of 2300 RPM to get my lowest
CHT #'s:
Cylinder # EGT CHT
1 1320 256
2 1302 313
3 1306 335
4 1343 324
5 1212 296
6 1308 251
E) Oil temp 198 degrees F
F) Pulled plugs burning a nice tan color, exhaust soot is a nice
grayish tan as well.
G) Engine starts on first throw of the starter key, but I have to get
throttle up or she stalls with the choke-on ( result of Economy tuning
mods)
H)m Warm engine start is a no brainer.
Any RPMs past 2300 up to 3000 results in cylinders 2, 3,4, 5
approaching and hitting 350 degress F. I pull back on the throttle and
aim my nose down to get things at least into the "yellow zone" of my
AuRacle Engine Monitor indications. I have tried all sorts of baffling,
extending the lip on my cowls exit for airflow, played with the jetting
and induction system of my carb, and listened to all the suggestion
threads on the internet and still haven't got things under control.
Any ideas or insights, pictures would be of great help. Thanks for
your time and consideration.
Cheers,
Jeff Paris Jab 3300 Zenith Ch601XLB and Jab 3300 Europa Monowheel
Classic Rochester, NY KSDC
Message 3
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| Subject: | CHT issues on a 3300 |
Jeff,
One thing missing is the dam in the front of the air-duct. This starts
in the bottom of the duct and runs up to about the welsh plug in the
head above the rocker shaft, may be about 2" tall.
If both ducts are like this in the front the majority of your cooling
air is going underneath the front cylinder. This will also contribute to
a lower pressure differential between the cowl and the duct, limiting
the amount of air passing the cylinders.
I can provide a picture or two if you like.
Nick Otterback
Arion Aircraft
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jeffrey J Paris
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 6:47 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: CHT issues on a 3300
Dear Gurus of the Jabiru Engine World,
I am currently back in flight test mode after finishing the "B" mods to
my Zenith CH601XL. Before the Mods I was having CHT issues with the
engine after I had installed the recommended " economy carb tuning kit"
from Jabiru USA when we attended their excellent engine seminar. Since
then I have been battling High CHT's on my #2, #3, #4, #5 cylinders. #1
runs cool and #6 is in the 260 F range.
I have attempted all sorts of methods in an attempt to improve the
cooling of my heads. (See attached pictures) During my second to last
flight I removed all of my "enhancements" and just went back to factory
FWF. Here are the known Facts of my engine:
A) All CHT senders are placed between the plug and a washer (per Pete
Krotje of Jab USA)
B) I added a fiberglass cross flow to my rubber elbow to "smooth" out
the air in my induction system into the carb.
C) Jettting in the Carb Main Jet #255 Needle Jet #285 ( Per Ben Krotje
Jab USA)
D) My Flight Today in stabilized cruise of 2300 RPM to get my lowest
CHT #'s:
Cylinder # EGT CHT
1 1320 256
2 1302 313
3 1306 335
4 1343 324
5 1212 296
6 1308 251
E) Oil temp 198 degrees F
F) Pulled plugs burning a nice tan color, exhaust soot is a nice grayish
tan as well.
G) Engine starts on first throw of the starter key, but I have to get
throttle up or she stalls with the choke-on ( result of Economy tuning
mods)
H)m Warm engine start is a no brainer.
Any RPMs past 2300 up to 3000 results in cylinders 2, 3,4, 5
approaching and hitting 350 degress F. I pull back on the throttle and
aim my nose down to get things at least into the "yellow zone" of my
AuRacle Engine Monitor indications. I have tried all sorts of baffling,
extending the lip on my cowls exit for airflow, played with the jetting
and induction system of my carb, and listened to all the suggestion
threads on the internet and still haven't got things under control.
Any ideas or insights, pictures would be of great help. Thanks for your
time and consideration.
Cheers,
Jeff Paris Jab 3300 Zenith Ch601XLB and Jab 3300 Europa Monowheel
Classic Rochester, NY KSDC
Message 4
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| Subject: | CHT issues on a 3300 |
Jeff,
Along with my last email here is a picture. These are a new set of
ducts, however it is important to put this air-dam in the front of the
older ones as well.
Note in the right side of the picture is a cut out in the fins and a
small half moon shape plug visible. That plug is for an oil galley, I
would suggest making that dam this tall.
Thanks
Nick Otterback
Arion Aircraft
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jeffrey J Paris
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 6:47 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: CHT issues on a 3300
Dear Gurus of the Jabiru Engine World,
I am currently back in flight test mode after finishing the "B" mods to
my Zenith CH601XL. Before the Mods I was having CHT issues with the
engine after I had installed the recommended " economy carb tuning kit"
from Jabiru USA when we attended their excellent engine seminar. Since
then I have been battling High CHT's on my #2, #3, #4, #5 cylinders. #1
runs cool and #6 is in the 260 F range.
I have attempted all sorts of methods in an attempt to improve the
cooling of my heads. (See attached pictures) During my second to last
flight I removed all of my "enhancements" and just went back to factory
FWF. Here are the known Facts of my engine:
A) All CHT senders are placed between the plug and a washer (per Pete
Krotje of Jab USA)
B) I added a fiberglass cross flow to my rubber elbow to "smooth" out
the air in my induction system into the carb.
C) Jettting in the Carb Main Jet #255 Needle Jet #285 ( Per Ben Krotje
Jab USA)
D) My Flight Today in stabilized cruise of 2300 RPM to get my lowest
CHT #'s:
Cylinder # EGT CHT
1 1320 256
2 1302 313
3 1306 335
4 1343 324
5 1212 296
6 1308 251
E) Oil temp 198 degrees F
F) Pulled plugs burning a nice tan color, exhaust soot is a nice grayish
tan as well.
G) Engine starts on first throw of the starter key, but I have to get
throttle up or she stalls with the choke-on ( result of Economy tuning
mods)
H)m Warm engine start is a no brainer.
Any RPMs past 2300 up to 3000 results in cylinders 2, 3,4, 5
approaching and hitting 350 degress F. I pull back on the throttle and
aim my nose down to get things at least into the "yellow zone" of my
AuRacle Engine Monitor indications. I have tried all sorts of baffling,
extending the lip on my cowls exit for airflow, played with the jetting
and induction system of my carb, and listened to all the suggestion
threads on the internet and still haven't got things under control.
Any ideas or insights, pictures would be of great help. Thanks for your
time and consideration.
Cheers,
Jeff Paris Jab 3300 Zenith Ch601XLB and Jab 3300 Europa Monowheel
Classic Rochester, NY KSDC
Message 5
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| Subject: | Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
Greetings Jabiru community...
I'm having a puzzling issue with my 3300 (early hyd. lifters, Aerocarb, 100 hrs.)
that I'm
hoping
someone on this list will be able to help me with. I'll try to touch on the pertinent
facts:
- recently completed a 100 hour inspection. Engine was fine last fall when last
flying.
- new plugs, standard NGK plugs, anti-seize. All 12 plugs that came out were essentially
tan in colour.
- removed distributors and alternator spider to get at flywheel bolts, but never
disconnected the plug
wires at the distributors. No sign of anything amiss inside, no dust, rotors
look fine.
- Leak-down test (warm engine) good for all cyls, lowest was 72/80.
- during initial ground ops after all was back together, the engine seemed to run
rough.
- mag tests showed about 40 rpm rpm when r.h. coil grounded via 'mag' switch, but
slightly
rough running.
- when l.h. coil grounded, *very* rough and stumbly (is that a word?), with about
a 100
rpm drop.
- coil primary and secondary resistance measurements were close to specs.
- after checking all the obvious stuff I could think of (h.t. wire seating, etc.),
I
removed the plugs
and saw that all were nicely tan with the exception of *both* cyl. #3 plugs,
which were
black and sooty.
- so I replaced those two plugs and taxied the plane, with the mixture aggressively
leaned, standard procedure the way my aerocarb is set up.
- monitored the EGT and CHT temps on my E.I.S 6000, saw that cylinder #3's temps
were
right in line
with all the other cyls. Mag checks similar to before, still rough, *especially
rough*
with l.h. coil grounded.
- removed the two #3 plugs, sure enough, they were black and sooty.
- repeated a leak-down test on all cyls, cyl. #3 was [again] 80/76
So now I'm running out of ideas. What could explain the two sooty plugs? I'm assuming
at
this point these
plugs are related to the rough running, but not sure why one coil would be worse
than the
other.
So now I'm out of ideas, so I'm plumbing the collective Jabiru conscienceless for
ideas/explanations! I think I've included all the important data points, but please
don't
hesitate to ask for more info, or clarification. I hesitate to fly the plane until
I get
to the bottom of this.
Thanks for listening! Hope someone can help!
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
+-------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
| http://cleco.ca |
+-------------------------------+
I xeroxed my watch. Now I have time to spare.
--- Steven Wright
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