Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:44 AM - Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (Naftali Horowitz)
2. 05:05 AM - Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (zeprep251@aol.com)
3. 06:00 AM - Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (j. davis)
4. 06:06 AM - Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (dons701)
5. 07:49 AM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (j. davis)
6. 08:00 AM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (IFLYSMODEL@aol.com)
7. 10:24 AM - Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (zeprep251@aol.com)
8. 11:04 AM - Re: CHT issues on a 3300 (GERALD A. APPLEFELD)
9. 11:30 AM - Re: CHT issues on a 3300 (dons701)
10. 01:11 PM - Re: CHT issues on a 3300 (James, Clive R)
11. 01:13 PM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (James, Clive R)
12. 01:17 PM - Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (James, Clive R)
13. 01:21 PM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (James, Clive R)
14. 02:06 PM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (j. davis)
15. 02:52 PM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (j. davis)
16. 02:52 PM - CHT issues on a 3300/ Jet sizes (Jeffrey J Paris)
17. 03:07 PM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (Martin Hone)
18. 04:02 PM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (j. davis)
19. 04:40 PM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (Martin Hone)
20. 06:02 PM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (jd@lawsonimaging.ca)
21. 07:40 PM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (j. davis)
22. 08:06 PM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (zeprep251@aol.com)
23. 08:21 PM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (Martin Hone)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
Looks like intermittent / weak ignition at cylinder #3. Check terminals at
caps.
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
> From: jwd3ca@gmail.com
> Date: Tue=2C 7 Jun 2011 21:02:36 -0400
> To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
>
ail.com>
>
> ?? A broken valve spring would pass a leak-down test?
>
> zeprep251@aol.com wrote:
>
> >J.Also check for broken valve spring=2Cprobably not on no.3
> > G
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
> >To: jabiruengine-list <jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
> >Sent: Tue=2C Jun 7=2C 2011 2:22 pm
> >Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
> >
> >
> ><jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
> >
> >On 06/07/2011 08:59 AM=2C zeprep251@aol.com wrote:
> >> J=2C
> >> Check the air gap between flywheel and mags
> >
> >Yeah=2C forgot to state it explicitely=2C but of course I set the air ga
ps
> >when I
> >re-installed
> >the spider.Also
> >magic markered the magnets to witness any potential future contact.
> >
> >> =2Cthen make certain that no plug wires have been rubbed thru by
> >contact with
> >the flywheel
> >> or pinched when the spider was re-installed.
> >
> >It would be pretty hard for the plug wires to get into contact with the
> >flywheel
> >or
> >pinched by the spider=2C they're quite
> >far removed by the length of the distributor and cap! Regardless=2C all
> >plug wires
> >were
> >thoroughly checked.
> >
> >> Air intake free of rodent nests?Good hunting!
> >
> >Just have a newly cleaned and oiled K&N filter on the aerocarb=2C no
> >other air
> >intake=2C as such.
> >
> >Thanks=2C anyway!
> >
> >> G.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
> >> To: jabiruengine-list <jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
> >> Sent: Mon=2C Jun 6=2C 2011 7:34 pm
> >> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
> >>
> >davis"<jd@lawsonimaging.ca
> ><mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>
> >>
> >> Greetings Jabiru community...
> >>
> >> I'm having a puzzling issue with my 3300 (early hyd. lifters=2C
> >Aerocarb=2C 100
> >> hrs.) that I'm
> >> hoping
> >> someone on this list will be able to help me with. I'll try to touch
> >on the
> >> pertinent facts:
> >>
> >> - recently completed a 100 hour inspection. Engine was fine last fall
> >when
> >last
> >> flying.
> >> - new plugs=2C standard NGK plugs=2C anti-seize. All 12 plugs that cam
e
> >out were
> >> essentially
> >> tan in colour.
> >> - removed distributors and alternator spider to get at flywheel
> >bolts=2C but
> >never
> >>
> >> disconnected the plug
> >> wires at the distributors. No sign of anything amiss inside=2C no
> >dust=2C
> >rotors
> >> look fine.
> >> - Leak-down test (warm engine) good for all cyls=2C lowest was 72/80.
> >> - during initial ground ops after all was back together=2C the engine
> >seemed to
> >> run rough.
> >> - mag tests showed about 40 rpm rpm when r.h. coil grounded via 'mag'
> >switch=2C
> >> but slightly
> >> rough running.
> >> - when l.h. coil grounded=2C *very* rough and stumbly (is that a
> >word?)=2C with
> >> about a 100
> >> rpm drop.
> >> - coil primary and secondary resistance measurements were close to
> >specs.
> >> - after checking all the obvious stuff I could think of (h.t. wire
> >seating=2C
> >> etc.)=2C I
> >> removed the plugs
> >> and saw that all were nicely tan with the exception of *both*
> >cyl. #3
> >plugs=2C
> >> which were
> >> black and sooty.
> >> - so I replaced those two plugs and taxied the plane=2C with the
> >mixture
> >> aggressively
> >> leaned=2C standard procedure the way my aerocarb is set up.
> >> - monitored the EGT and CHT temps on my E.I.S 6000=2C saw that cylinde
r
> >#3's
> >temps
> >> were
> >> right in line
> >> with all the other cyls. Mag checks similar to before=2C still
> >rough=2C
> >> *especially rough*
> >> with l.h. coil grounded.
> >> - removed the two #3 plugs=2C sure enough=2C they were black and sooty
.
> >> - repeated a leak-down test on all cyls=2C cyl. #3 was [again] 80/76
> >>
> >> So now I'm running out of ideas. What could explain the two sooty
> >plugs? I'm
> >> assuming at
> >> this point these
> >> plugs are related to the rough running=2C but not sure why one coil
> >would be
> >worse
> >> than the
> >> other.
> >>
> >> So now I'm out of ideas=2C so I'm plumbing the collective Jabiru
> >conscienceless
> >> for
> >> ideas/explanations! I think I've included all the important data
> >points=2C but
> >> please don't
> >> hesitate to ask for more info=2C or clarification. I hesitate to fly
> >the plane
> >> until I get
> >> to the bottom of this.
> >>
> >> Thanks for listening! Hope someone can help!
> >>
> >> --
> >> Regards=2C J.
> >>
> >> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ=2C Jab 3300a=2C Prince P-Tip=2C Aerocarb
> >> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder=2C CH750 in progress
> >> - see both (and more!) athttp://cleco.ca
> >>
> >> +-------------------------------+
> >> | J. Davis=2C M.Sc. (comp sci) |
> >> | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
> >> | *NIX consulting=2C SysAdmin |
> >> |http://cleco.ca |
> >> +-------------------------------+
> >>
> >>
> >> I xeroxed my watch. Now I have time to spare.
> >> --- Steven Wright
> >>
> >>
> >> ist"
> >target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> >> tp://forums.matronics.com
> >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *
> >>
> >>
> >> *
> >
> >
> >--
> >Regards=2C J.
> >
> >- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ=2C Jab 3300a=2C Prince P-Tip=2C Aerocarb
> >- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder=2C CH750 in progress
> >- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
> >
> >+-------------------------------+
> >| J. Davis=2C M.Sc. (comp sci) |
> >| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
> >| *NIX consulting=2C SysAdmin |
> >| http://cleco.ca |
> >+-------------------------------+
> >
> >
> >There's a pizza place near where I live that sells only
> >slices. In the back you can see a guy tossing a triangle
> >in the air.
> > --- Steven Wright
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Sent from my Android tablet using K-9 Mail. Please excuse any typos! J.
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
J.
Yes,as would a worn cam lobe.The test pressure closes the valve.Just lookin
g for a condition that would affect mixture on a specific cyl.
-----Original Message-----
From: jd@lawsonimaging.ca <jwd3ca@gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 7, 2011 9:06 pm
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
<jwd3ca@gmail.com>
?? A broken valve spring would pass a leak-down test?
zeprep251@aol.com wrote:
>J.Also check for broken valve spring,probably not on no.3
> G
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
>To: jabiruengine-list <jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Tue, Jun 7, 2011 2:22 pm
>Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
>
>
><jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
>
>On 06/07/2011 08:59 AM, zeprep251@aol.com wrote:
>> J,
>> Check the air gap between flywheel and mags
>
>Yeah, forgot to state it explicitely, but of course I set the air gaps
>when I
>re-installed
>the spider.Also
>magic markered the magnets to witness any potential future contact.
>
>> ,then make certain that no plug wires have been rubbed thru by
>contact with
>the flywheel
>> or pinched when the spider was re-installed.
>
>It would be pretty hard for the plug wires to get into contact with the
>flywheel
>or
>pinched by the spider, they're quite
>far removed by the length of the distributor and cap! Regardless, all
>plug wires
>were
>thoroughly checked.
>
>> Air intake free of rodent nests?Good hunting!
>
>Just have a newly cleaned and oiled K&N filter on the aerocarb, no
>other air
>intake, as such.
>
>Thanks, anyway!
>
>> G.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
>> To: jabiruengine-list <jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Mon, Jun 6, 2011 7:34 pm
>> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
>>
>> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j.
>davis"<jd@lawsonimaging.ca
><mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>
>>
>> Greetings Jabiru community...
>>
>> I'm having a puzzling issue with my 3300 (early hyd. lifters,
>Aerocarb, 100
>> hrs.) that I'm
>> hoping
>> someone on this list will be able to help me with. I'll try to touch
>on the
>> pertinent facts:
>>
>> - recently completed a 100 hour inspection. Engine was fine last fall
>when
>last
>> flying.
>> - new plugs, standard NGK plugs, anti-seize. All 12 plugs that came
>out were
>> essentially
>> tan in colour.
>> - removed distributors and alternator spider to get at flywheel
>bolts, but
>never
>>
>> disconnected the plug
>> wires at the distributors. No sign of anything amiss inside, no
>dust,
>rotors
>> look fine.
>> - Leak-down test (warm engine) good for all cyls, lowest was 72/80.
>> - during initial ground ops after all was back together, the engine
>seemed to
>> run rough.
>> - mag tests showed about 40 rpm rpm when r.h. coil grounded via 'mag'
>switch,
>> but slightly
>> rough running.
>> - when l.h. coil grounded, *very* rough and stumbly (is that a
>word?), with
>> about a 100
>> rpm drop.
>> - coil primary and secondary resistance measurements were close to
>specs.
>> - after checking all the obvious stuff I could think of (h.t. wire
>seating,
>> etc.), I
>> removed the plugs
>> and saw that all were nicely tan with the exception of *both*
>cyl. #3
>plugs,
>> which were
>> black and sooty.
>> - so I replaced those two plugs and taxied the plane, with the
>mixture
>> aggressively
>> leaned, standard procedure the way my aerocarb is set up.
>> - monitored the EGT and CHT temps on my E.I.S 6000, saw that cylinder
>#3's
>temps
>> were
>> right in line
>> with all the other cyls. Mag checks similar to before, still
>rough,
>> *especially rough*
>> with l.h. coil grounded.
>> - removed the two #3 plugs, sure enough, they were black and sooty.
>> - repeated a leak-down test on all cyls, cyl. #3 was [again] 80/76
>>
>> So now I'm running out of ideas. What could explain the two sooty
>plugs? I'm
>> assuming at
>> this point these
>> plugs are related to the rough running, but not sure why one coil
>would be
>worse
>> than the
>> other.
>>
>> So now I'm out of ideas, so I'm plumbing the collective Jabiru
>conscienceless
>> for
>> ideas/explanations! I think I've included all the important data
>points, but
>> please don't
>> hesitate to ask for more info, or clarification. I hesitate to fly
>the plane
>> until I get
>> to the bottom of this.
>>
>> Thanks for listening! Hope someone can help!
>>
>> --
>> Regards, J.
>>
>> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
>> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
>> - see both (and more!) athttp://cleco.ca
>>
>> +-------------------------------+
>> | J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
>> | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
>> | *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
>> |http://cleco.ca |
>> +-------------------------------+
>>
>>
>> I xeroxed my watch. Now I have time to spare.
>> --- Steven Wright
>>
>>
>> ist"
>target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>--
>Regards, J.
>
>- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
>- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
>- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>
>+-------------------------------+
>| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
>| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
>| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
>| http://cleco.ca |
>+-------------------------------+
>
>
>There's a pizza place near where I live that sells only
>slices. In the back you can see a guy tossing a triangle
>in the air.
>--- Steven Wright
>
>
>
--
Sent from my Android tablet using K-9 Mail. Please excuse any typos! J.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
On 06/08/2011 08:02 AM, zeprep251@aol.com wrote:
> J.
> Yes,as would a worn cam lobe.The test pressure closes the valve.
OK...
But could an engine run otherwise seemingly fine with a broken valve spring?
How could a broken valve spring on a different cylinder not affect that cylinder
yet
affect #3?
What's the best way to check for a broken valve spring. Remember, I have hydraulic
lifters.
Vacuum gauge? Should I be removing all the heads?
Thanks everyone for the feedback!
Wonder what Lynn and Roger and Clive and Pete's opinions are?
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
+-------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
| http://cleco.ca |
+-------------------------------+
My house is made out of balsa wood, so when I want to
scare the neighborhood kids I lift it over my head and
tell them to get out of my yard or I'll throw it at them.
--- Steven Wright
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
Have not read of anyone suggesting a vacuum gage. This would show the possible
broken valve spring or other strange phenomena. Without any other info I'd say
it's time to pull the head of #3, or at least the valve cover......Don B
--------
Zenith 701 #76120
Jabiru 2200A #2456 67 hours
Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342400#342400
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
On 06/08/2011 09:04 AM, dons701 wrote:
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "dons701"<burdon1@comcast.net>
>
> Have not read of anyone suggesting a vacuum gage. This would show the possible
broken valve spring or other strange phenomena. Without any other info I'd say
it's time to pull the head of #3, or at least the valve cover......Don B
>
Not sure if there's a place to connect a vacuum gauge (no Bing).
Could my symptoms have to do with hydraulic lifters somehow? Maybe sticking, 'deflated',
etc.?
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
+-------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
| http://cleco.ca |
+-------------------------------+
A cop stopped me for speeding. He said, "Why were you
going so fast?" I said, "See this thing my foot is on?
It's called an accelerator. When you push down on it,
it sends more gas to the engine. The whole car just takes
right off. And see this thing? This steers it."
--- Steven Wright
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
Hey J: I would remove the rocker covers of # 3 and either 1 or 5. Then with
a spark plug out of each cylinder, rotate the engine to check the valve
movement on # 3. Also, when the valves are closed, check to see of the rocker
can be moved (according to the manual it should not). (Don't ask how I
know)
Lynn Nelsen
In a message dated 6/8/2011 10:49:20 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jd@lawsonimaging.ca writes:
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis" <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
On 06/08/2011 09:04 AM, dons701 wrote:
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "dons701"<burdon1@comcast.net>
>
> Have not read of anyone suggesting a vacuum gage. This would show the
possible broken valve spring or other strange phenomena. Without any other
info I'd say it's time to pull the head of #3, or at least the valve
cover......Don B
>
Not sure if there's a place to connect a vacuum gauge (no Bing).
Could my symptoms have to do with hydraulic lifters somehow? Maybe
sticking, 'deflated', etc.?
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
+-------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
| http://cleco.ca |
+-------------------------------+
A cop stopped me for speeding. He said, "Why were you
going so fast?" I said, "See this thing my foot is on?
It's called an accelerator. When you push down on it,
it sends more gas to the engine. The whole car just takes
right off. And see this thing? This steers it."
--- Steven Wright
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
I would just pull the covers and visually inspect the springs.They are diff
icult to twist if they are in one piece.
-----Original Message-----
From: j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2011 9:00 am
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
On 06/08/2011 08:02 AM, zeprep251@aol.com wrote:
> J.
> Yes,as would a worn cam lobe.The test pressure closes the valve.
OK...
But could an engine run otherwise seemingly fine with a broken valve spring
?
How could a broken valve spring on a different cylinder not affect that cyl
inder
yet
affect #3?
What's the best way to check for a broken valve spring. Remember, I have
hydraulic lifters.
Vacuum gauge? Should I be removing all the heads?
Thanks everyone for the feedback!
Wonder what Lynn and Roger and Clive and Pete's opinions are?
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
+-------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
| http://cleco.ca |
+-------------------------------+
My house is made out of balsa wood, so when I want to
scare the neighborhood kids I lift it over my head and
tell them to get out of my yard or I'll throw it at them.
--- Steven Wright
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: CHT issues on a 3300 |
Jeff,
I had similar issues early on. Check the archives as there is alot of
info on cooling issues. Two things that worked for me. 1. It appears
that your air dams at the entrance to the Ram Ducts my be too low. 2.
Remove some of the cowl on the bottom half at the air exit around the
nose wheel strut. Then temporarily duct tape a piece of aluminum to
make the rim bevel larger. This causes a negative air pressure actually
drawing more air out the bottom. In effect creating more air moving
from the inlets through the cowl/cylinders to the exit. The size of the
exit hole is important but the larger lip helped alot. I now have the
opposite problem. In the winter my cylinder head temps tend to run cold
(several read only 220 to 250) with a Grand Rapids EIS. In summer
(Pennsylvania) in a long climb number 3 cylinder might get to 350 but
returns to upper 200's after lowering nose to cruise.
Jerry
On 6/7/2011 4:44 PM, Jeffrey J Paris wrote:
> Dear Jabiru 3300 Guru's,
> First of all thank you for all of your input I appreciate as I battle
> the heat demons in my cowl. Yesterday I spent the day working on my
> CHT cooling issues.
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: CHT issues on a 3300 |
Exactly what I had to do with my CH701 Jerry. Cut the exit much larger and bought
some white aluminum flashing to make a 4 inch lip to start with. My temps
took a dive. My inlets are about 3 to 4 times the size of Jeff's much faster
plane......Don B
--------
Zenith 701 #76120
Jabiru 2200A #2456 67 hours
Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342426#342426
Message 10
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| Subject: | CHT issues on a 3300 |
When I had the Rotax cowl on my Esqual I got a step change in the
cooling by adding an outlet baffle.
It went back three times as far as it went down, so it was more
streamlined than the 'lips' that I've seen added by others. I don't have
a picture of mine but I do of the one I copied, Dave Mc was good enough
to send me the attached.
If you think about it, a hanging baffle on the cowl outlet will create
some suction but not as much as something more streamlined. I cured my
head cooling with the duct like this but went on to change to a new cowl
for oil cooling reasons.
I would recommend trying a more streamlined 'baffle/duct' on the outlet.
Regarding the dam on the inlet, there is a school of thought that the
tumbling effect of a vertical baffle is better than a 'ramp' I recall
someone trying both and finding the vertical baffle better.
The hanging baffles inside the ducts that restrict airflow, restrict
airflow so there is a balance between how much they restrict and how
much they deflect, any restriction is not a good thing with marginal
cooling.
Roger mentioned the smoke test's to see where the airflow goes, this
will show mow much air gets deflected over the cowl and so bypasses the
ram air entry. Another reason why creating more 'pull' on the outlet is
so successful.....IMHO.
Regards, Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
GERALD A. APPLEFELD
Sent: 08 June 2011 18:59
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT issues on a 3300
--> <jerryvmd@embarqmail.com>
Jeff,
I had similar issues early on. Check the archives as there is alot of
info on cooling issues. Two things that worked for me. 1. It appears
that your air dams at the entrance to the Ram Ducts my be too low. 2.
Remove some of the cowl on the bottom half at the air exit around the
nose wheel strut. Then temporarily duct tape a piece of aluminum to
make the rim bevel larger. This causes a negative air pressure actually
drawing more air out the bottom. In effect creating more air moving
from the inlets through the cowl/cylinders to the exit. The size of the
exit hole is important but the larger lip helped alot. I now have the
opposite problem. In the winter my cylinder head temps tend to run cold
(several read only 220 to 250) with a Grand Rapids EIS. In summer
(Pennsylvania) in a long climb number 3 cylinder might get to 350 but
returns to upper 200's after lowering nose to cruise.
Jerry
On 6/7/2011 4:44 PM, Jeffrey J Paris wrote:
> Dear Jabiru 3300 Guru's,
> First of all thank you for all of your input I appreciate as I battle
> the heat demons in my cowl. Yesterday I spent the day working on my
> CHT cooling issues.
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
You should be able to rattle a tappet when the valve is closed, it
rattles by the clearance you create when you put the feeler in to set
the tappet clearance? Or am I missing something?
CJ
________________________________
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
IFLYSMODEL@aol.com
Sent: 08 June 2011 15:57
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
Hey J: I would remove the rocker covers of # 3 and either 1 or 5. Then
with a spark plug out of each cylinder, rotate the engine to check the
valve movement on # 3. Also, when the valves are closed, check to see of
the rocker can be moved (according to the manual it should not). (Don't
ask how I know)
Lynn Nelsen
In a message dated 6/8/2011 10:49:20 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jd@lawsonimaging.ca writes:
<jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
On 06/08/2011 09:04 AM, dons701 wrote:
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by:
"dons701"<burdon1@comcast.net>
>
> Have not read of anyone suggesting a vacuum gage. This would
show the possible broken valve spring or other strange phenomena.
Without any other info I'd say it's time to pull the head of #3, or at
least the valve cover......Don B
>
Not sure if there's a place to connect a vacuum gauge (no Bing).
Could my symptoms have to do with hydraulic lifters somehow?
Maybe sticking, 'deflated', etc.?
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
+-------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
| http://cleco.ca |
+-------------------------------+
A cop stopped me for speeding. He said, "Why were you
going so fast?" I said, "See this thing my foot is on?
It's called an accelerator. When you push down on it,
it sends more gas to the engine. The whole car just takes
right off. And see this thing? This steers it."
--- Steven
========================
= Use
utilities Day
======================
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
======================
- List Contribution Web Site sp;
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
I have been musing the sooty plugs on this engine. Is it possibly an
extreme case of the mismatch out the fuel flows to the cylinders because
the poor dynamics of the induction pipes?
How about the carb twisting idea?
The cross piece in the carb inlet?
Drop the needle?
Lift the needle?
The rest of the ideas all seem a little extreme for something that looks
like a mixture issue.
________________________________
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
zeprep251@aol.com
Sent: 08 June 2011 18:19
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
I would just pull the covers and visually inspect the springs.They are
difficult to twist if they are in one piece.
-----Original Message-----
From: j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2011 9:00 am
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
<jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
On 06/08/2011 08:02 AM, zeprep251@aol.com wrote:
> J.
> Yes,as would a worn cam lobe.The test pressure closes the valve.
OK...
But could an engine run otherwise seemingly fine with a broken valve
spring?
How could a broken valve spring on a different cylinder not affect that
cylinder
yet
affect #3?
What's the best way to check for a broken valve spring. Remember, I have
hydraulic lifters.
Vacuum gauge? Should I be removing all the heads?
Thanks everyone for the feedback!
Wonder what Lynn and Roger and Clive and Pete's opinions are?
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
+-------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
| http://cleco.ca |
+-------------------------------+
My house is made out of balsa wood, so when I want to
scare the neighborhood kids I lift it over my head and
tell them to get out of my yard or I'll throw it at them.
--- Steven Wright
ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
I missed the hydraulic tappet comment sorry.
Bleeding things, wish I didn't have them frankly. I have two flat
cylinders which appear to be caused by the hydraulic pesky tappets.
________________________________
From: James, Clive R
Sent: 08 June 2011 21:10
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
You should be able to rattle a tappet when the valve is closed, it
rattles by the clearance you create when you put the feeler in to set
the tappet clearance? Or am I missing something?
CJ
________________________________
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
IFLYSMODEL@aol.com
Sent: 08 June 2011 15:57
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
Hey J: I would remove the rocker covers of # 3 and either 1 or 5. Then
with a spark plug out of each cylinder, rotate the engine to check the
valve movement on # 3. Also, when the valves are closed, check to see of
the rocker can be moved (according to the manual it should not). (Don't
ask how I know)
Lynn Nelsen
In a message dated 6/8/2011 10:49:20 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jd@lawsonimaging.ca writes:
<jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
On 06/08/2011 09:04 AM, dons701 wrote:
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by:
"dons701"<burdon1@comcast.net>
>
> Have not read of anyone suggesting a vacuum gage. This would
show the possible broken valve spring or other strange phenomena.
Without any other info I'd say it's time to pull the head of #3, or at
least the valve cover......Don B
>
Not sure if there's a place to connect a vacuum gauge (no Bing).
Could my symptoms have to do with hydraulic lifters somehow?
Maybe sticking, 'deflated', etc.?
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
+-------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
| http://cleco.ca |
+-------------------------------+
A cop stopped me for speeding. He said, "Why were you
going so fast?" I said, "See this thing my foot is on?
It's called an accelerator. When you push down on it,
it sends more gas to the engine. The whole car just takes
right off. And see this thing? This steers it."
--- Steven
========================
= Use
utilities Day
======================
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
======================
- List Contribution Web Site sp;
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
On 06/08/2011 04:18 PM, James, Clive R wrote:
> I missed the hydraulic tappet comment sorry.
> Bleeding things, wish I didn't have them frankly. I have two flat cylinders which
appear
> to be caused by the hydraulic pesky tappets.
Thanks for chiming in on this, Clive. Yes, hydraulic lifters. I actually postponed
purchasing my engine, to wait for the 'A' version, thinking it would be a Good
Thing.
Visually inspected all valve springs and tappets, can see nothing amiss.
If I push fairly hard on the bottom (push rod side) of each tappet I can compress
the
lifter slightly, then it returns.
Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill, esp. since the rough running has
disappeared. I just can't help thinking that
maybe those two #3 cylinder plugs will foul, then the rough running will be back.
And I
don't want to do anything (like flying) that could do any damage to the engine.
Clive, what do you mean by 'flat'? Bad leak-down numbers?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* James, Clive R
> *Sent:* 08 June 2011 21:10
> *To:* 'jabiruengine-list@matronics.com'
> *Subject:* RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
>
> You should be able to rattle a tappet when the valve is closed, it rattles by
the
> clearance you create when you put the feeler in to set the tappet clearance?
Or am I
> missing something?
> CJ
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *IFLYSMODEL@aol.com
> *Sent:* 08 June 2011 15:57
> *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
>
> Hey J: I would remove the rocker covers of # 3 and either 1 or 5. Then with a
spark plug
> out of each cylinder, rotate the engine to check the valve movement on # 3. Also,
when
> the valves are closed, check to see of the rocker can be moved (according to
the manual
> it should not). (Don't ask how I know)
> Lynn Nelsen
> In a message dated 6/8/2011 10:49:20 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jd@lawsonimaging.ca
writes:
>
>
> On 06/08/2011 09:04 AM, dons701 wrote:
> > --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "dons701"<burdon1@comcast.net>
> >
> > Have not read of anyone suggesting a vacuum gage. This would show the possible
> broken valve spring or other strange phenomena. Without any other info I'd
say it's
> time to pull the head of #3, or at least the valve cover......Don B
> >
>
> Not sure if there's a place to connect a vacuum gauge (no Bing).
>
> Could my symptoms have to do with hydraulic lifters somehow? Maybe sticking,
> 'deflated', etc.?
>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>
> +-------------------------------+
> | J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
> | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
> | *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
> | http://cleco.ca |
> +-------------------------------+
>
>
> A cop stopped me for speeding. He said, "Why were you
> going so fast?" I said, "See this thing my foot is on?
> It's called an accelerator. When you push down on it,
> it sends more gas to the engine. The whole car just takes
> right off. And see this thing? This steers it."
> --- Steven ======================== = Use utilities Day
> ======================= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ======================
> - List Contribution Web Site sp;
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
> *
>
>
> *
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
+-------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
| http://cleco.ca |
+-------------------------------+
The other day somebody stole everything in my apartment
and replaced it with an exact replica... When my roommate
came home I said, "Roommate, someone stole everything in
our apartment and replaced it with an exact replica." He
looked at me and said, "Do I know you?"
--- Steven Wright
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
On 06/08/2011 05:03 PM, j. davis wrote:
>
> If I push fairly hard on the bottom (push rod side) of each tappet I can compress
the
> lifter slightly, then it returns.
>
>
Actually, I just revisited my tappets. I put each cylinder at TDC and used my thumb
to
push on each tappet. 10
of the 12 depressed just slightly, maybe 1/8". The two tappets immediately adjacent
to my
'problem' cylinder (3), (number 1 intake,
number 5 exhaust) each fairly easily depressed about 1/4", maybe even 3/8". Does
this mean
something bad? Seems coincidental that bthey are the adjacent tappets, although
I can't
see how that would affect a different, adjacent, cylinder, but what do I know :")
Thanks again for all the advice, people!
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
+-------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
| http://cleco.ca |
+-------------------------------+
Sometimes I... No, I don't.
--- Steven Wright
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | CHT issues on a 3300/ Jet sizes |
Hey Tex,
=C2-
Well my man you were right my Jets were all over the place in terms of the a
pertures not being what is printed on the part, see table on my 3 sets of je
ts and the configs they were in:
=C2-
*(Actual Drill Size Index)
=C2-
=C2-=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Main Jet # =C2- =C2
- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-Needle Jet #
=C2-
Original Carb Set-up =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
- =C2- 280 (273 #36-0.1070) =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- 27
8 (272 #35-0.1070)
=C2-
=C2-
Economy Tuning Kit/ =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2- 260 (256 #38-0.1005) =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- 290 (2
93 #33-0.1115)
Jab USA
=C2-
Current Set-UP/ New =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2-255(249 #39-0.0985) =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-28
5 (293 #33-0.1115)
recommend. Jab USA
Jab USA
=C2-=C2-
Tex, =C2-I'm now a believer in the fact that what the parts are labled as
are not in fact what they are supposed to be, interesting "quality control f
or a precision" instrument. =C2-What would be your recommendations on the
jet combination that might ease my CHT issues in terms of carby tuning? =C2
-I'm all ears.
=C2-
Jeff Paris
Other Jabiru 3300 Facts from my engine manual:
=C2-
EGTs Above 70% (1184F-1256F)
=C2-=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Cruise =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2-(1256F-1328F)
=C2-
Max Oil Temp =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-(
244F)
Continuous oil temp =C2- =C2- =C2-(176F-212F)
=C2-
Max CHT =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
- =C2- =C2- ( 348F)
Continuous CHT =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-(302F)
=C2-
Max Cruise =C2-@2750 RPM
=C2-=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2-
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
J. If you are getting a leaky valve or possibly valve bounce, it will
indeed effect other cylinders by disturbing the pressure waves of the
incoming charges. Remember, it is the negative and positive pressure waves
that do the work, not as you would imagine a steady flow of fuel and air
coming in and out of the cylinders. I recently had a sticking exhaust valve
that directly caused this particular 3300 to run on 3 cylinders, not just
the one affected !
Worth a try - change out those valve springs....
Martin
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 7:48 AM, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca> wrote:
>
> On 06/08/2011 05:03 PM, j. davis wrote:
>
>>
>> If I push fairly hard on the bottom (push rod side) of each tappet I can
>> compress the lifter slightly, then it returns.
>>
>>
>>
> Actually, I just revisited my tappets. I put each cylinder at TDC and used
> my thumb to push on each tappet. 10
> of the 12 depressed just slightly, maybe 1/8". The two tappets immediately
> adjacent to my 'problem' cylinder (3), (number 1 intake,
> number 5 exhaust) each fairly easily depressed about 1/4", maybe even 3/8".
> Does this mean something bad? Seems coincidental that bthey are the adjacent
> tappets, although I can't see how that would affect a different, adjacent,
> cylinder, but what do I know :")
>
>
> Thanks again for all the advice, people!
>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>
> +-------------------------------+
> +-------------------------------+
>
>
> Sometimes I... No, I don't.
> --- Steven Wright
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
On 06/08/2011 06:04 PM, Martin Hone wrote:
> J. If you are getting a leaky valve or possibly valve bounce, it will indeed
effect
> other cylinders by disturbing the pressure waves of the incoming charges. Remember,
it
> is the negative and positive pressure waves that do the work, not as you would
imagine a
> steady flow of fuel and air coming in and out of the cylinders. I recently had
a
> sticking exhaust valve that directly caused this particular 3300 to run on 3
cylinders,
> not just the one affected !
>
> Worth a try - change out those valve springs....
>
> Martin
Thanks, Martin, but I have a hard time swallowing that at just 100 hours, and running
fine
last fall, that I would
need to change out valve springs that are not broken. That would be a sad statement
regarding the Jabiru engine indeed.
Just doesn't make sense. I need some hard evidence
before I commit to start pulling heads off. Don't forget, it's currently running
fine,
just the #3 plugs are sooty.
And leak-downs are fine, so no sticking valve as was your case. You may be right,
but at
this point I'm not
convinced... I'm leaning toward the hydraulic lifters right now, hoping some more
Jab
experts will chime in
(Pete, Roger, where are you when I need you ;')
>
> On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 7:48 AM, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca
> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>> wrote:
>
> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>
>
> On 06/08/2011 05:03 PM, j. davis wrote:
>
> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>
>
> If I push fairly hard on the bottom (push rod side) of each tappet I
can
> compress the lifter slightly, then it returns.
>
>
> Actually, I just revisited my tappets. I put each cylinder at TDC and used
my thumb
> to push on each tappet. 10
> of the 12 depressed just slightly, maybe 1/8". The two tappets immediately
adjacent
> to my 'problem' cylinder (3), (number 1 intake,
> number 5 exhaust) each fairly easily depressed about 1/4", maybe even 3/8".
Does
> this mean something bad? Seems coincidental that bthey are the adjacent tappets,
> although I can't see how that would affect a different, adjacent, cylinder,
but what
> do I know :")
>
>
> Thanks again for all the advice, people!
>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>
> +-------------------------------+
> | J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
> | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca <http://lawsonimaging.ca> |
> | *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
> | http://cleco.ca |
> +-------------------------------+
>
>
> Sometimes I... No, I don't.
> --- Steven Wright
>
>
> ==========
> -
> ine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> ==========
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
+-------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
| http://cleco.ca |
+-------------------------------+
I was walking down the street and saw a sign on a post. It
said: "Lost -- $50. If found, just keep it."
--- Steven Wright
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
J - as it is running fine, I would tend to leave well enough along also.
But the fact that your adjacent valve springs are noticeably weaker must
mean something.
The fact that it has only done 100 hrs is of little consequence in Jab
world. We had to rebuild 2 heads at 100 hrs, again at 200 hrs and replace
all rocker bushes and pins at 250 hrs. So we are now using the LCH ones from
Rotec.....
Martin
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 8:59 AM, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca> wrote:
>
> On 06/08/2011 06:04 PM, Martin Hone wrote:
>
>> J. If you are getting a leaky valve or possibly valve bounce, it will
>> indeed effect other cylinders by disturbing the pressure waves of the
>> incoming charges. Remember, it is the negative and positive pressure waves
>> that do the work, not as you would imagine a steady flow of fuel and air
>> coming in and out of the cylinders. I recently had a sticking exhaust valve
>> that directly caused this particular 3300 to run on 3 cylinders, not just
>> the one affected !
>>
>> Worth a try - change out those valve springs....
>>
>> Martin
>>
>
> Thanks, Martin, but I have a hard time swallowing that at just 100 hours,
> and running fine last fall, that I would
> need to change out valve springs that are not broken. That would be a sad
> statement regarding the Jabiru engine indeed.
> Just doesn't make sense. I need some hard evidence
> before I commit to start pulling heads off. Don't forget, it's currently
> running fine, just the #3 plugs are sooty.
> And leak-downs are fine, so no sticking valve as was your case. You may be
> right, but at this point I'm not
> convinced... I'm leaning toward the hydraulic lifters right now, hoping
> some more Jab experts will chime in
> (Pete, Roger, where are you when I need you ;')
>
>
>> On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 7:48 AM, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca <mailto:
>> jd@lawsonimaging.ca>> wrote:
>>
>> jd@lawsonimaging.ca
>> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>
>>
>> On 06/08/2011 05:03 PM, j. davis wrote:
>>
>> jd@lawsonimaging.ca
>> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>
>>
>> If I push fairly hard on the bottom (push rod side) of each tappet
>> I can
>> compress the lifter slightly, then it returns.
>>
>>
>>
>> Actually, I just revisited my tappets. I put each cylinder at TDC and
>> used my thumb
>> to push on each tappet. 10
>> of the 12 depressed just slightly, maybe 1/8". The two tappets
>> immediately adjacent
>> to my 'problem' cylinder (3), (number 1 intake,
>> number 5 exhaust) each fairly easily depressed about 1/4", maybe even
>> 3/8". Does
>> this mean something bad? Seems coincidental that bthey are the adjacent
>> tappets,
>> although I can't see how that would affect a different, adjacent,
>> cylinder, but what
>> do I know :")
>>
>>
>> Thanks again for all the advice, people!
>>
>> -- Regards, J.
>>
>> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
>> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
>> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>>
>> +-------------------------------+
>> | J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
>> | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca <http://lawsonimaging.ca> |
>> | *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
>> | http://cleco.ca |
>> +-------------------------------+
>>
>>
>> Sometimes I... No, I don't.
>> --- Steven Wright
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> -
>> ine-List" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>> ==========
>> MS -
>> k">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> e -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>
> +-------------------------------+
> +-------------------------------+
>
>
> I was walking down the street and saw a sign on a post. It
> said: "Lost -- $50. If found, just keep it."
> --- Steven Wright
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
It's not the springs that are weaker, it's the lifters that compress easier. Yeah,
its running smoothly now, but if those two plugs actually foul, that'll be
bad...
Martin Hone <aerobiz1@gmail.com> wrote:
>J - as it is running fine, I would tend to leave well enough along
>also.
>But the fact that your adjacent valve springs are noticeably weaker
>must
>mean something.
>
>The fact that it has only done 100 hrs is of little consequence in Jab
>world. We had to rebuild 2 heads at 100 hrs, again at 200 hrs and
>replace
>all rocker bushes and pins at 250 hrs. So we are now using the LCH ones
>from
>Rotec.....
>
>Martin
>
>On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 8:59 AM, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca> wrote:
>
><jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
>>
>> On 06/08/2011 06:04 PM, Martin Hone wrote:
>>
>>> J. If you are getting a leaky valve or possibly valve bounce, it
>will
>>> indeed effect other cylinders by disturbing the pressure waves of
>the
>>> incoming charges. Remember, it is the negative and positive
>pressure waves
>>> that do the work, not as you would imagine a steady flow of fuel and
>air
>>> coming in and out of the cylinders. I recently had a sticking
>exhaust valve
>>> that directly caused this particular 3300 to run on 3 cylinders, not
>just
>>> the one affected !
>>>
>>> Worth a try - change out those valve springs....
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>
>> Thanks, Martin, but I have a hard time swallowing that at just 100
>hours,
>> and running fine last fall, that I would
>> need to change out valve springs that are not broken. That would be a
>sad
>> statement regarding the Jabiru engine indeed.
>> Just doesn't make sense. I need some hard evidence
>> before I commit to start pulling heads off. Don't forget, it's
>currently
>> running fine, just the #3 plugs are sooty.
>> And leak-downs are fine, so no sticking valve as was your case. You
>may be
>> right, but at this point I'm not
>> convinced... I'm leaning toward the hydraulic lifters right now,
>hoping
>> some more Jab experts will chime in
>> (Pete, Roger, where are you when I need you ;')
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 7:48 AM, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca
><mailto:
>>> jd@lawsonimaging.ca>> wrote:
>>>
>>> jd@lawsonimaging.ca
>>> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>
>>>
>>> On 06/08/2011 05:03 PM, j. davis wrote:
>>>
>>> jd@lawsonimaging.ca
>>> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>
>>>
>>> If I push fairly hard on the bottom (push rod side) of each
>tappet
>>> I can
>>> compress the lifter slightly, then it returns.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Actually, I just revisited my tappets. I put each cylinder at TDC
>and
>>> used my thumb
>>> to push on each tappet. 10
>>> of the 12 depressed just slightly, maybe 1/8". The two tappets
>>> immediately adjacent
>>> to my 'problem' cylinder (3), (number 1 intake,
>>> number 5 exhaust) each fairly easily depressed about 1/4", maybe
>even
>>> 3/8". Does
>>> this mean something bad? Seems coincidental that bthey are the
>adjacent
>>> tappets,
>>> although I can't see how that would affect a different, adjacent,
>>> cylinder, but what
>>> do I know :")
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks again for all the advice, people!
>>>
>>> -- Regards, J.
>>>
>>> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
>>> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
>>> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>>>
>>> +-------------------------------+
>>> | J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
>>> | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca <http://lawsonimaging.ca> |
>>> | *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
>>> | http://cleco.ca |
>>> +-------------------------------+
>>>
>>>
>>> Sometimes I... No, I don't.
>>> --- Steven Wright
>>>
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> -
>>> ine-List" target="_blank">
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>>> ==========
>>> MS -
>>> k">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> e -
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ==========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards, J.
>>
>> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
>> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
>> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>>
>> +-------------------------------+
>> | J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
>> | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
>> | *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
>> | http://cleco.ca |
>> +-------------------------------+
>>
>>
>> I was walking down the street and saw a sign on a post. It
>> said: "Lost -- $50. If found, just keep it."
>> --- Steven Wright
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
--
Sent from my Android tablet using K-9 Mail. Please excuse any typos! J.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
I've attached a picture of the plugs just to illustrate what I'm seeing. Don't
be alarmed
that the others
look too lean, I was aggressively leaned at shut-down.
Thanks!
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
+-------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
| http://cleco.ca |
+-------------------------------+
One time a cop pulled me over for running a stop sign. He
said, "Didn't you see the stop sign?" I said, "Yeah,
but I don't believe everything I read."
--- Steven Wright
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
J
Is it possible that you had a valve sticking? Maybe try an upper cylinder a
dditive in your fuel,like Marvel .Very unlikely that a hydraulic lifter wou
ld cause a problem.Sticking valves are quite common in Continental engines.
Good article in EAA Sport AV magazine this month.
G.
-----Original Message-----
From: j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2011 7:03 pm
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
On 06/08/2011 06:04 PM, Martin Hone wrote:
> J. If you are getting a leaky valve or possibly valve bounce, it will in
deed
effect
> other cylinders by disturbing the pressure waves of the incoming charges.
Remember, it
> is the negative and positive pressure waves that do the work, not as you
would
imagine a
> steady flow of fuel and air coming in and out of the cylinders. I recent
ly
had a
> sticking exhaust valve that directly caused this particular 3300 to run o
n 3
cylinders,
> not just the one affected !
>
> Worth a try - change out those valve springs....
>
> Martin
Thanks, Martin, but I have a hard time swallowing that at just 100 hours, a
nd
running fine
last fall, that I would
need to change out valve springs that are not broken. That would be a sad
statement
regarding the Jabiru engine indeed.
Just doesn't make sense. I need some hard evidence
before I commit to start pulling heads off. Don't forget, it's currently ru
nning
fine,
just the #3 plugs are sooty.
And leak-downs are fine, so no sticking valve as was your case. You may be
right, but at
this point I'm not
convinced... I'm leaning toward the hydraulic lifters right now, hoping som
e
more Jab
experts will chime in
(Pete, Roger, where are you when I need you ;')
>
> On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 7:48 AM, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca
> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>> wrote:
>
.ca
> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>
>
> On 06/08/2011 05:03 PM, j. davis wrote:
>
<jd@lawsonimaging.ca
> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>
>
> If I push fairly hard on the bottom (push rod side) of each tappe
t I
can
> compress the lifter slightly, then it returns.
>
>
> Actually, I just revisited my tappets. I put each cylinder at TDC and
used
my thumb
> to push on each tappet. 10
> of the 12 depressed just slightly, maybe 1/8". The two tappets immedi
ately
adjacent
> to my 'problem' cylinder (3), (number 1 intake,
> number 5 exhaust) each fairly easily depressed about 1/4", maybe even
3/8". Does
> this mean something bad? Seems coincidental that bthey are the adjace
nt
tappets,
> although I can't see how that would affect a different, adjacent,
cylinder, but what
> do I know :")
>
>
> Thanks again for all the advice, people!
>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>
> +-------------------------------+
> | J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
> | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca <http://lawsonimaging.ca> |
> | *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
> | http://cleco.ca |
> +-------------------------------+
>
>
> Sometimes I... No, I don't.
> --- Steven Wright
>
>
> ==========
> -
> ine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Jabiru
Engine-List
> ==========
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
+-------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
| http://cleco.ca |
+-------------------------------+
I was walking down the street and saw a sign on a post. It
said: "Lost -- $50. If found, just keep it."
--- Steven Wright
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
They don't look lean to me. Obviously you have never raced a 2-stroke....
;-)
Besides, you 'read' a plug by looking down the bottom of the insulator, not
the firing end....
Still a mystery
Cheers
Martin
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 12:36 PM, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca> wrote:
> I've attached a picture of the plugs just to illustrate what I'm seeing.
> Don't be alarmed that the others
> look too lean, I was aggressively leaned at shut-down.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>
> +-------------------------------+
> +-------------------------------+
>
>
> One time a cop pulled me over for running a stop sign. He
> said, "Didn't you see the stop sign?" I said, "Yeah,
> but I don't believe everything I read."
> --- Steven Wright
>
>
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