Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:31 AM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (Lynn Matteson)
2. 03:41 AM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (Lynn Matteson)
3. 04:00 AM - Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (Thom Riddle)
4. 05:32 AM - Hydraulic tappets (James, Clive R)
5. 05:50 AM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (j. davis)
6. 06:31 AM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (Rob Turk)
7. 07:38 AM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (j. davis)
8. 09:14 AM - Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (dons701)
9. 10:05 AM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (j. davis)
10. 11:33 AM - Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (dons701)
11. 03:54 PM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (j. davis)
12. 04:18 PM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (Martin Hone)
13. 05:38 PM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (vvkidd@mindspring.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
Compared to yours, I'd need to wear sunglasses to read my plugs. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: flying with "Ramcharger" intake manifold...1111 hrs (since
3-27-2006)
On Jun 8, 2011, at 10:36 PM, j. davis wrote:
> I've attached a picture of the plugs just to illustrate what I'm
> seeing. Don't be alarmed that the others
> look too lean, I was aggressively leaned at shut-down.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
Rocker arm bushings at 237 hours, along with "cross-swapping" the
rocker shafts to introduce the previously unused bearing
surface....nope, time doesn't mean Jack S - - t to a Jabiru. But get
it right and it's a nice engine...that is, IF you have solid lifters.
Sorry, but that's my opinion. Jabiru tried to fix something that
wasn't broken, and should have put their engineering expertise into
some other areas of the engine instead of listening to advice from
crybabies who didn't like adjusting valves.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: flying with "Ramcharger" intake manifold...1111 hrs (since
3-27-2006)
On Jun 8, 2011, at 7:38 PM, Martin Hone wrote:
> J - as it is running fine, I would tend to leave well enough along
> also. But the fact that your adjacent valve springs are noticeably
> weaker must mean something.
>
> The fact that it has only done 100 hrs is of little consequence in
> Jab world. We had to rebuild 2 heads at 100 hrs, again at 200 hrs
> and replace all rocker bushes and pins at 250 hrs. So we are now
> using the LCH ones from Rotec.....
>
> Martin
>
> On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 8:59 AM, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca> wrote:
> <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
>
> On 06/08/2011 06:04 PM, Martin Hone wrote:
> J. If you are getting a leaky valve or possibly valve bounce, it
> will indeed effect other cylinders by disturbing the pressure waves
> of the incoming charges. Remember, it is the negative and positive
> pressure waves that do the work, not as you would imagine a steady
> flow of fuel and air coming in and out of the cylinders. I
> recently had a sticking exhaust valve that directly caused this
> particular 3300 to run on 3 cylinders, not just the one affected !
>
> Worth a try - change out those valve springs....
>
> Martin
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
Any chance you have an air flow blockage in the #3 cylinder intake tube?
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Truth is what stands the test of experience.
- Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342483#342483
Message 4
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| Subject: | Hydraulic tappets |
Jabiru tried to fix something that wasn't broken, and should have put
their engineering expertise into some other areas of the engine instead
of listening to advice from crybabies who didn't like adjusting valves.
Hear hear!
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
On 06/09/2011 06:57 AM, Thom Riddle wrote:
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle"<riddletr@gmail.com>
>
> Any chance you have an air flow blockage in the #3 cylinder intake tube?
Hi Thom...
hmmm, not sure how that would happen, but wouldn't that *lean* the mixture to #3?
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
+-------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
| http://cleco.ca |
+-------------------------------+
If the pen is mightier than the sword, in a duel I'll let
you have the pen!
--- Steven Wright
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
On 6/9/2011 2:48 PM, j. davis wrote:
>
> On 06/09/2011 06:57 AM, Thom Riddle wrote:
>> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "Thom
>> Riddle"<riddletr@gmail.com>
>>
>> Any chance you have an air flow blockage in the #3 cylinder intake tube?
>
> Hi Thom...
>
> hmmm, not sure how that would happen, but wouldn't that *lean* the
> mixture to #3?
>
The mixture would lean if there's a leak in the intake runner which
would add air to the mixture. If it is blocked, the cylinder would get
the right mixture, but perhaps insufficient to ignite?
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
On 06/09/2011 09:26 AM, Rob Turk wrote:
>
> On 6/9/2011 2:48 PM, j. davis wrote:
>>
>> On 06/09/2011 06:57 AM, Thom Riddle wrote:
>>> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle"<riddletr@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Any chance you have an air flow blockage in the #3 cylinder intake tube?
>>
>> Hi Thom...
>>
>> hmmm, not sure how that would happen, but wouldn't that *lean* the mixture to
#3?
>>
> The mixture would lean if there's a leak in the intake runner which would add
air to the
> mixture. If it is blocked, the cylinder would get the right mixture, but perhaps
> insufficient to ignite?
>
So the suggestion is to remove the intake tube to check for blockage? I'm trying
to
imagine a scenario that would result
in a blocked intake tube... what could the blockage consist of? What might I find
inside
there?
>
>
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
+-------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
| http://cleco.ca |
+-------------------------------+
A friend of mine is into Voodoo Acupuncture. You don't
have to go. You'll just be walking down the street,
and...........ooooohhhhhh, that's much better...
--- Steven Wright
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
Hi J.
I thought your response, quoted below, to an earlier question was interesting.
How did you set the gaps on both coils ? I found more accuracy in setting
the gaps on both coils by using two pieces (approx 1"x3") of brass shim stock
.010", the minimum setting. First clean the rust or other corrosion off coils
and magnets. Once the brass shims are in place, coil mounting bolts can be loosened
to allow coils to have full contact with the curved magnets, a shim sandwich
so to speak. This assures the curvature of the coils and magnets are uniform
to each other along with keeping the proper gap. Lock the coil mounting bolts.
You will find it hard to pull your shims out. Rotate the engine to satisfy
yourself that there is no interference. Store the shims in the tool box.
Lastly, IF you removed the coils, did you make sure the coil insulating washers
were in place? I would hate to think that the coils just got hot to a point
of weakness such that the first cylinder to miss fire was number 3. Sometimes
a weak ignition will show up on one cylinder (hardest to fire) first before the
others. I have read in other posts where gaps were cleaned and reset to solve
ignition issues when the owner thought they were ok. Some of your other plugs
seem a bit dirty, like weak ignition to me. Sorry for the dissertation on
gap setting but if it helps you or anyone, great....Don B
""Yeah, forgot to state it explicitely, but of course I set the air gaps when I
re-installed
the spider.Also
magic markered the magnets to witness any potential future contact""
--------
Zenith 701 #76120
Jabiru 2200A #2456 67 hours
Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342509#342509
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
On 06/09/2011 12:09 PM, dons701 wrote:
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "dons701"<burdon1@comcast.net>
>
> Hi J.
> I thought your response, quoted below, to an earlier question was interesting.
How did you set the gaps on both coils ? I found more accuracy in setting
the gaps on both coils by using two pieces (approx 1"x3") of brass shim stock
.010", the minimum setting. First clean the rust or other corrosion off coils
and magnets. Once the brass shims are in place, coil mounting bolts can be
loosened to allow coils to have full contact with the curved magnets, a shim
sandwich so to speak. This assures the curvature of the coils and magnets are
uniform to each other along with keeping the proper gap. Lock the coil mounting
bolts. You will find it hard to pull your shims out. Rotate the engine to satisfy
yourself that there is no interference. Store the shims in the tool box.
Exactly how I do it, except I use business card strips (after verifying that they
are
indeed .010). One day I'll pick up some brass shim stock,
but the card stock works well...
> Lastly, IF you removed the coils, did you make sure the coil insulating washers
were in place?
Didn't remove the coils, but did do a resistance check on their primaries and secondaries,
and they were all in range.
> I would hate to think that the coils just got hot to a point of weakness such
that the first cylinder to miss fire was number 3. Sometimes a weak ignition
will show up on one cylinder (hardest to fire) first before the others.
Good point...
> I have read in other posts where gaps were cleaned and reset to solve ignition
issues when the owner thought they were ok. Some of your other plugs seem
a bit dirty, like weak ignition to me. Sorry for the dissertation on gap setting
but if it helps you or anyone, great....Don B
Plugs are new (and gapped) with about an hour on them so far...
Which part of my response did you find interesting, exactly?
Thanks, Don.
> ""Yeah, forgot to state it explicitely, but of course I set the air gaps when
I re-installed
> the spider.Also magic markered the magnets to witness any potential future contact""
>
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
+-------------------------------+
| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) |
| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |
| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin |
| http://cleco.ca |
+-------------------------------+
All of the people in my building are insane. The guy above
me designs synthetic hairballs for ceramic cats. The lady
across the hall tried to rob a department store... With
a pricing gun... She said, "Give me all of the money in
the vault, or I'm marking down everything in the store."
--- Steven Wright
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
Hi J
To respond in order, when you checked the coil resistances were the coils hot?
Resistance goes up with temp. increase....Plug color or how dirty they are,
new or otherwise is a function of mixture and the completeness of combustion supplied
by the ignition.
.Also magic markered the magnets to witness any potential future contact
What i thought was interesting...
Just wondering if you had seen evidence of contact before as quoted above and
thought the plugs were dirty indicating a possible over all ignition problem
thats all. Everyone knows that your problem could become their problem in the
future, hope the solution can be found and reported here, keep trying.....Don
B
--------
Zenith 701 #76120
Jabiru 2200A #2456 67 hours
Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342528#342528
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
On 06/09/2011 02:30 PM, dons701 wrote:
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "dons701"<burdon1@comcast.net>
>
> Hi J
> To respond in order, when you checked the coil resistances were the coils
hot?
Cold. The Jab maintenance manual doesn't specify a temperature at which to test,
so I'm
assuming they mean cold.
> Resistance goes up with temp. increase....Plug color or how dirty they are, new
or otherwise is a function of mixture and the completeness of combustion supplied
by the ignition.
Check.
> .Also magic markered the magnets to witness any potential future contact
>
> What i thought was interesting...
> Just wondering if you had seen evidence of contact before as quoted above
and thought the plugs were dirty indicating a possible over all ignition problem
thats all. Everyone knows that your problem could become their problem in the
future, hope the solution can be found and reported here, keep trying.....Don
B
>
No, not personally, but I've read of coils destroyed by contact, don't know how/why
that
happened, but I like to just be able to give a quick
glance to ensure that my black magic marker is intact and unscathed ;') Just for
the
comfort factor...
As an aside, I discovered that my 'soft' lifters just needed filling. Spun the
engine with
no plugs, watched oil pressure climb. After that, they were just like the others.
One more
possibility ticked off as not the cause. There must be a definitive and scientific
reason
for these two sooty plugs,
still hunting ;'(
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
-----------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
http://cleco.ca
My aunt gave me a walkie-talkie for my birthday. She says
if I'm good, she'll give me the other one next year.
--- Steven Wright
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
J - given that your two plugs are sooty rather than wet, I would hazard a
guess that the mixture is too rich rather than the plugs not firing. Have
you tried twisting the carb a few degrees off centre ?
Martin
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 8:49 AM, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca> wrote:
>
> On 06/09/2011 02:30 PM, dons701 wrote:
>
>> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "dons701"<burdon1@comcast.net>
>>
>> Hi J
>> To respond in order, when you checked the coil resistances were the
>> coils hot?
>>
>
> Cold. The Jab maintenance manual doesn't specify a temperature at which to
> test, so I'm assuming they mean cold.
>
>> Resistance goes up with temp. increase....Plug color or how dirty they
>> are, new or otherwise is a function of mixture and the completeness of
>> combustion supplied by the ignition.
>>
>
> Check.
>
> .Also magic markered the magnets to witness any potential future contact
>>
>> What i thought was interesting...
>> Just wondering if you had seen evidence of contact before as quoted
>> above and thought the plugs were dirty indicating a possible over all
>> ignition problem thats all. Everyone knows that your problem could become
>> their problem in the future, hope the solution can be found and reported
>> here, keep trying.....Don B
>>
>>
> No, not personally, but I've read of coils destroyed by contact, don't know
> how/why that happened, but I like to just be able to give a quick
> glance to ensure that my black magic marker is intact and unscathed ;')
> Just for the comfort factor...
>
> As an aside, I discovered that my 'soft' lifters just needed filling. Spun
> the engine with no plugs, watched oil pressure climb. After that, they were
> just like the others. One more possibility ticked off as not the cause.
> There must be a definitive and scientific reason for these two sooty plugs,
> still hunting ;'(
>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>
> -----------------------------
> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
> http://cleco.ca
>
>
> My aunt gave me a walkie-talkie for my birthday. She says
> if I'm good, she'll give me the other one next year.
> --- Steven Wright
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
Not sure that this could be your problem but I had a similar problem with a C172.
Found that the hose coupling between the two halves of the intake manifold had
slipped and was admitting air into the manifold thus changing the mixture.
Victor Kidd
-----Original Message-----
>From: "j. davis" <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
>Sent: Jun 9, 2011 6:49 PM
>To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
>
>
>On 06/09/2011 02:30 PM, dons701 wrote:
>> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "dons701"<burdon1@comcast.net>
>>
>> Hi J
>> To respond in order, when you checked the coil resistances were the coils
hot?
>
>Cold. The Jab maintenance manual doesn't specify a temperature at which to test,
so I'm
>assuming they mean cold.
>> Resistance goes up with temp. increase....Plug color or how dirty they are,
new or otherwise is a function of mixture and the completeness of combustion supplied
by the ignition.
>
>Check.
>
>> .Also magic markered the magnets to witness any potential future contact
>>
>> What i thought was interesting...
>> Just wondering if you had seen evidence of contact before as quoted above
and thought the plugs were dirty indicating a possible over all ignition problem
thats all. Everyone knows that your problem could become their problem in
the future, hope the solution can be found and reported here, keep trying.....Don
B
>>
>
>No, not personally, but I've read of coils destroyed by contact, don't know how/why
that
>happened, but I like to just be able to give a quick
>glance to ensure that my black magic marker is intact and unscathed ;') Just for
the
>comfort factor...
>
>As an aside, I discovered that my 'soft' lifters just needed filling. Spun the
engine with
>no plugs, watched oil pressure climb. After that, they were just like the others.
One more
>possibility ticked off as not the cause. There must be a definitive and scientific
reason
>for these two sooty plugs,
>still hunting ;'(
>
>--
>Regards, J.
>
>- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
>- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
>- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>
>-----------------------------
>J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
>email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
>*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
>http://cleco.ca
>
>
>My aunt gave me a walkie-talkie for my birthday. She says
>if I'm good, she'll give me the other one next year.
> --- Steven Wright
>
>
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