Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:39 AM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (j. davis)
2. 09:39 AM - Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (dons701)
3. 11:02 AM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (Charles Gallagher)
4. 11:35 AM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (Lynn Matteson)
5. 02:36 PM - Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. (Martin Hone)
6. 11:27 PM - Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix (japhillipsga@aol.com)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
On 06/16/2011 11:16 PM, ces308 wrote:
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "ces308"<ces308@ldaco.com>
>
> J....
>
> Did you ever figure out what the problem was???
>
> chris ambrose
> Kolb M3X/Jabiru A-2200 191.0 hrs
> N327CS
>
>
Hi Chris...
No, I've only been able to eliminate a bunch of items as *not* being the cause:
I've been hoping that the two or three guys who monitor this list regularly and
work
on [Jabiru] engines for a living would contribute. Hoping that maybe they had seen
similar
symptoms in one of their hundreds or thousands of engines that have passed through
their
establishments... I see them chiming on other issues all the time. Maybe they're
stumped
speechless :-)
The issue: *both* #3 plugs equally sooty, all other plugs light tan (see previous
attached
pic)
Here's what I've tried:
- leak down test consistently good, both cold and warm
- h.t. wires to cyl. #3 swapped for #4's. #3 plugs still sooty
- distributor innards checked (both would have to have same #3 issue)
- all valve springs checked, all lifters checked for soft or collapsed
- air gap set to 0.010"
- new plugs (obviously)
- other miscellaneous checks, such as h.t. wire seating, etc.
What I haven't yet tried:
- examining the cam. Wouldn't a worn cam lobe result in not enough lift and a *lean*
mixture
on that cylinder?
- using a vacuum gauge. Where could I connect it (no Bing, remember) ? Do I
need to drill and weld in a nipple in the intake manifold?
So the question stands. What could cause either:
- a single cylinder of six to run so rich as to actually foul *both* plugs
or
- the two plugs of the single cylinder not to fire sufficiently to burn off the
charge
...keeping in mind the trouble-shooting items I have already eliminated...
So far, I've flown about an hour since my pre-flight mag test went back to normal,
probably
as a result of replacing #3 plugs, likely one or both were fouled.
But my confidence level is low, as I wait for the current #3 plugs to foul. I just
wish I
could
discover the reason for this behaviour!
Thanks to all for the input!
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249
>
>
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
-----------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
http://cleco.ca
I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour
in only ten minutes.
--- Steven Wright
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
Hi J, How soon after you install fresh plugs does the engine exhibit evidence
of miss-fire? Does this happen after several heat and cool down cycles, or at
the first warm up? This problem is so strange and given that your static leak
down tests, ignition and "average" fuel mixture seem OK, it makes me want to
look for something strange. I would, if not done already, perform a dynamic compression
test and observe how the needle on the gage jumps up as the engine
is spun through four compression cycles. Be careful! Does the needle jump up to
150psi or so on the first or second hit? Test some of the other cylinders and
look for differences compared with #3. Shame you don't have a vacuum port on
the engine side of your throttle body as this would be an even more dynamic test
of the air pumping abilities of the engine.
It would be interesting to try a pair of NGK Iridium plugs in #3 to see how
they perform under #3's condition. They are much easier for the coils to fire
as they have a small jump off point for the spark. Gap carefully to avoid breaking
off the Iridium as it withstands 4000F before melting which is why they
last so long and should never need re-gaped. I have a complete set in my 2200A,
gaped to .025 and have never looked back. With the coating supplied on the
threads of these plugs you do not need anti-seize, as told by the tech at NGK.
Some coatings applied to the threads can inhibit the grounding of the plug,
acting like a resister, decreasing the voltage to jump the gap. Are you torquing
the plugs? ( 8 ft pounds I think)
J, keep trying and start looking for the "stupid and strange" things......Don
B
--------
Zenith 701 #76120
Jabiru 2200A #2456 95 hours
Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343305#343305
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
J. OK here is a strange scenario,blocked oil return line in #3 cyl.head,the
oil level rising to the valve steams and making its way into the combustio
n chamber fouling the plugs.Remove the valve cover replace with Plexiglas o
perate the engine to see actual conditions.Clear the return line if necessa
ry . You tube has a video of a 3300 with the Plexiglas installed and engine
running.Also,shows ambient pressure affect on oil level.
Good hunting,CRG
--- On Fri, 6/17/11, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca> wrote:
From: j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
On 06/16/2011 11:16 PM, ces308 wrote:
> -->- JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "ces308"<ces308@ldaco.com>
>
> J....
>
> Did you ever figure out what the problem was???
>
> chris ambrose
> Kolb M3X/Jabiru A-2200- - 191.0 hrs
> N327CS
>
>
Hi Chris...
No, I've only been able to eliminate a bunch of items as *not* being the ca
use:
I've been hoping that the two or three guys who monitor this list regularly
and work
on [Jabiru] engines for a living would contribute. Hoping that maybe they h
ad seen similar
symptoms in one of their hundreds or thousands of- engines that have pass
ed through their
establishments...- I see them chiming on other issues all the time. Maybe
they're stumped
speechless :-)
The issue: *both* #3 plugs equally sooty, all other plugs light tan (see pr
evious attached
pic)
Here's what I've tried:
- leak down test consistently good, both cold and warm
- h.t. wires to cyl. #3 swapped for #4's. #3 plugs still sooty
- distributor innards checked (both would have to have same #3 issue)
- all valve springs checked, all lifters checked for soft or collapsed
- air gap set to 0.010"
- new plugs (obviously)
- other miscellaneous checks, such as h.t. wire seating, etc.
What I haven't yet tried:
- examining the cam. Wouldn't a worn cam lobe result in not enough lift and
a *lean* mixture
---on that cylinder?
- using a vacuum gauge. Where could I connect it (no Bing, remember) ? Do I
---need to drill and weld in a nipple in the intake manifold?
So the question stands. What could cause either:
- a single cylinder of six to run so rich as to actually foul *both* plugs
or
- the two plugs of the single cylinder not to fire sufficiently to burn off
the charge
...keeping in mind the trouble-shooting items I have already eliminated...
So far, I've flown about an hour since my pre-flight mag test went back to
normal, probably
as a result of replacing #3 plugs, likely one or both were fouled.
But my confidence level is low, as I wait for the current #3 plugs to foul.
I just wish I
could
discover the reason for this behaviour!
Thanks to all for the input!
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249
>
>
--
Regards,- J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
-----------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
http://cleco.ca
I took a course in speed waiting.- Now I can wait an hour
in only ten minutes.
--- --- --- --- --- Steven Wright
le, List Admin.
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
You could rule out the lift of the cam lobes on #3 by observing
the...hand-cranked...rocker action on that cylinder. If in doubt,
check lift with a ruler, or a dial indicator, although if it's as bad
as you say, observation of rocker action by eye should reveal if the
cam is worn.
By the way what are the specs on your Prince prop?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: flying with "Ramcharger" intake manifold...1117 hrs (since
3-27-2006)
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle. |
J, it must be frustrating not having any of the engine gurus offer years of
experience in solving this problem. Maybe they are too busy with all the
other problems.... ;-)
Anyway, have you tried tilting the carb in its mount to see if the problem
moves to another cylinder. it is a know problem that the Jab inlet system
is diabolical.
Martin
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:36 PM, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca> wrote:
>
> On 06/16/2011 11:16 PM, ces308 wrote:
>
>> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "ces308"<ces308@ldaco.com>
>>
>> J....
>>
>> Did you ever figure out what the problem was???
>>
>> chris ambrose
>> Kolb M3X/Jabiru A-2200 191.0 hrs
>> N327CS
>>
>>
>> Hi Chris...
>
> No, I've only been able to eliminate a bunch of items as *not* being the
> cause:
>
> I've been hoping that the two or three guys who monitor this list regularly
> and work
> on [Jabiru] engines for a living would contribute. Hoping that maybe they
> had seen similar
> symptoms in one of their hundreds or thousands of engines that have passed
> through their
> establishments... I see them chiming on other issues all the time. Maybe
> they're stumped speechless :-)
>
> The issue: *both* #3 plugs equally sooty, all other plugs light tan (see
> previous attached pic)
>
> Here's what I've tried:
>
> - leak down test consistently good, both cold and warm
> - h.t. wires to cyl. #3 swapped for #4's. #3 plugs still sooty
> - distributor innards checked (both would have to have same #3 issue)
> - all valve springs checked, all lifters checked for soft or collapsed
> - air gap set to 0.010"
> - new plugs (obviously)
> - other miscellaneous checks, such as h.t. wire seating, etc.
>
> What I haven't yet tried:
>
> - examining the cam. Wouldn't a worn cam lobe result in not enough lift and
> a *lean* mixture
> on that cylinder?
> - using a vacuum gauge. Where could I connect it (no Bing, remember) ? Do I
> need to drill and weld in a nipple in the intake manifold?
>
> So the question stands. What could cause either:
>
> - a single cylinder of six to run so rich as to actually foul *both* plugs
>
> or
>
> - the two plugs of the single cylinder not to fire sufficiently to burn off
> the charge
>
> ...keeping in mind the trouble-shooting items I have already eliminated...
>
> So far, I've flown about an hour since my pre-flight mag test went back to
> normal, probably
> as a result of replacing #3 plugs, likely one or both were fouled.
>
> But my confidence level is low, as I wait for the current #3 plugs to foul.
> I just wish I could
> discover the reason for this behaviour!
>
> Thanks to all for the input!
>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/**viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>
> -----------------------------
> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
> http://cleco.ca
>
>
> I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour
> in only ten minutes.
> --- Steven Wright
>
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
J, I pretty much keep off these things, but you seem like a guy in need. I
have a 3300 in my XL-B. While early into phase 1 the engine would get roug
h, loose power and scare hell out of me. And I tore my hair out for hours.
Then I learned that the Bing Carb is a delicate and sensitive gadget. First
, I replaced the SCAT tubing with a 90 degree Gates rubber radiator hose fr
om O'Rieliey's Auto parts as the coupling between the carb and the air filt
er box. What was occurring was that intake air from the filter was entering
the carb inlet unevenly, all on one side and not smoothly and this messed
with the delicate rubber venture inside the carb that controls mixture. The
n I made a divider wall of aluminum inside the hose that spands from just p
rior to the inlet all the way around the turn of the hose bend(probably 6 i
nches). Is made out on .25 6061T6 and stays put because of the hose bend.Th
is allowed the air stream to be even and smooth as it travels to the carb a
nd enters the rear of the Bing. First flight afterward was great. Hundreds
of flights since, full smooth and dependable power. Only other thing might
be plugs. Change them and run only the temp Jab says to run. Not hotter or
colder. Best of luck, Bill of Georgia
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Hone <aerobiz1@gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 5:36 pm
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
J, it must be frustrating not having any of the engine gurus offer years of
experience in solving this problem. Maybe they are too busy with all the o
ther problems.... ;-)
Anyway, have you tried tilting the carb in its mount to see if the problem
moves to another cylinder. it is a know problem that the Jab inlet system
is diabolical.
Martin
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:36 PM, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca> wrote:
On 06/16/2011 11:16 PM, ces308 wrote:
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "ces308"<ces308@ldaco.com>
J....
Did you ever figure out what the problem was???
chris ambrose
Kolb M3X/Jabiru A-2200 191.0 hrs
N327CS
Hi Chris...
No, I've only been able to eliminate a bunch of items as *not* being the ca
use:
I've been hoping that the two or three guys who monitor this list regularly
and work
on [Jabiru] engines for a living would contribute. Hoping that maybe they h
ad seen similar
symptoms in one of their hundreds or thousands of engines that have passed
through their
establishments... I see them chiming on other issues all the time. Maybe t
hey're stumped speechless :-)
The issue: *both* #3 plugs equally sooty, all other plugs light tan (see pr
evious attached pic)
Here's what I've tried:
- leak down test consistently good, both cold and warm
- h.t. wires to cyl. #3 swapped for #4's. #3 plugs still sooty
- distributor innards checked (both would have to have same #3 issue)
- all valve springs checked, all lifters checked for soft or collapsed
- air gap set to 0.010"
- new plugs (obviously)
- other miscellaneous checks, such as h.t. wire seating, etc.
What I haven't yet tried:
- examining the cam. Wouldn't a worn cam lobe result in not enough lift and
a *lean* mixture
on that cylinder?
- using a vacuum gauge. Where could I connect it (no Bing, remember) ? Do I
need to drill and weld in a nipple in the intake manifold?
So the question stands. What could cause either:
- a single cylinder of six to run so rich as to actually foul *both* plugs
or
- the two plugs of the single cylinder not to fire sufficiently to burn off
the charge
...keeping in mind the trouble-shooting items I have already eliminated...
So far, I've flown about an hour since my pre-flight mag test went back to
normal, probably
as a result of replacing #3 plugs, likely one or both were fouled.
But my confidence level is low, as I wait for the current #3 plugs to foul.
I just wish I could
discover the reason for this behaviour!
Thanks to all for the input!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
-----------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
http://cleco.ca
I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour
in only ten minutes.
--- Steven Wright
-
ine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine
-List
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
e -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|