Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:53 AM - Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix (James, Clive R)
2. 01:13 AM - Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix (Martin Hone)
3. 06:49 AM - Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix (j. davis)
4. 07:37 AM - Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix (James, Clive R)
5. 07:57 AM - Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix (j. davis)
6. 08:00 AM - Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix (dons701)
7. 08:22 AM - Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix (James, Clive R)
8. 11:33 AM - Re: Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix (Rob Turk)
9. 11:41 AM - Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix (zeprep251@aol.com)
10. 01:50 PM - Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix (Martin Hone)
11. 04:23 PM - Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix (James, Clive R)
12. 04:29 PM - Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix (j. davis)
13. 04:29 PM - Re: Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix (j. davis)
14. 07:35 PM - Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix (Martin Hone)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
I'm on here all the while, sorry.
I'm with the shy guy, given all you have tried and found the only thing
it can be is the way the fuel is hitting the induction pipes. I did
mention the carby turning trick at the beginning, not as a solution but
something to try to see if you can make any change that was before I
knew the set up. Is there anything at all you can play about with to see
if this is the issue? The cross in the inlet pipe isn't an option? I
know it was suggested some time back as well.
There's a guy on another list trying to fix a radio and he's done just
about everything you could think of, finding something that has some
effect at all is the next step, won't fix it but might lead on to
something else that might
The throttle thing, is there anything to the way it works that can be
improved/inspected/changed/turned around.....dickered with?
Good luck, CJ
________________________________
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
japhillipsga@aol.com
Sent: 18 June 2011 07:24
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
J, I pretty much keep off these things, but you seem like a guy in need.
I have a 3300 in my XL-B. While early into phase 1 the engine would get
rough, loose power and scare hell out of me. And I tore my hair out for
hours. Then I learned that the Bing Carb is a delicate and sensitive
gadget. First, I replaced the SCAT tubing with a 90 degree Gates rubber
radiator hose from O'Rieliey's Auto parts as the coupling between the
carb and the air filter box. What was occurring was that intake air from
the filter was entering the carb inlet unevenly, all on one side and not
smoothly and this messed with the delicate rubber venture inside the
carb that controls mixture. Then I made a divider wall of aluminum
inside the hose that spands from just prior to the inlet all the way
around the turn of the hose bend(probably 6 inches). Is made out on .25
6061T6 and stays put because of the hose bend.This allowed the air
stream to be even and smooth as it travels to the carb and enters the
rear of the Bing. First flight afterward was great. Hundreds of flights
since, full smooth and dependable power. Only other thing might be
plugs. Change them and run only the temp Jab says to run. Not hotter or
colder. Best of luck, Bill of Georgia
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Hone <aerobiz1@gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 5:36 pm
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
J, it must be frustrating not having any of the engine gurus offer years
of experience in solving this problem. Maybe they are too busy with all
the other problems.... ;-)
Anyway, have you tried tilting the carb in its mount to see if the
problem moves to another cylinder. it is a know problem that the Jab
inlet system is diabolical.
Martin
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:36 PM, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca> wrote:
<jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
On 06/16/2011 11:16 PM, ces308 wrote:
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by:
"ces308"<ces308@ldaco.com>
J....
Did you ever figure out what the problem was???
chris ambrose
Kolb M3X/Jabiru A-2200 191.0 hrs
N327CS
Hi Chris...
No, I've only been able to eliminate a bunch of items as *not*
being the cause:
I've been hoping that the two or three guys who monitor this
list regularly and work
on [Jabiru] engines for a living would contribute. Hoping that
maybe they had seen similar
symptoms in one of their hundreds or thousands of engines that
have passed through their
establishments... I see them chiming on other issues all the
time. Maybe they're stumped speechless :-)
The issue: *both* #3 plugs equally sooty, all other plugs light
tan (see previous attached pic)
Here's what I've tried:
- leak down test consistently good, both cold and warm
- h.t. wires to cyl. #3 swapped for #4's. #3 plugs still sooty
- distributor innards checked (both would have to have same #3
issue)
- all valve springs checked, all lifters checked for soft or
collapsed
- air gap set to 0.010"
- new plugs (obviously)
- other miscellaneous checks, such as h.t. wire seating, etc.
What I haven't yet tried:
- examining the cam. Wouldn't a worn cam lobe result in not
enough lift and a *lean* mixture
on that cylinder?
- using a vacuum gauge. Where could I connect it (no Bing,
remember) ? Do I
need to drill and weld in a nipple in the intake manifold?
So the question stands. What could cause either:
- a single cylinder of six to run so rich as to actually foul
*both* plugs
or
- the two plugs of the single cylinder not to fire sufficiently
to burn off the charge
...keeping in mind the trouble-shooting items I have already
eliminated...
So far, I've flown about an hour since my pre-flight mag test
went back to normal, probably
as a result of replacing #3 plugs, likely one or both were
fouled.
But my confidence level is low, as I wait for the current #3
plugs to foul. I just wish I could
discover the reason for this behaviour!
Thanks to all for the input!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249>
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
-----------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
http://cleco.ca
I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour
in only ten minutes.
--- Steven Wright
-
ine-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
e -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
tor?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-L
ist
tp://forums.matronics.com
bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
J,
Both the experts and non-experts have suggested rotating the carb in the
rubber coupling to see what effect it may have. If it has any effect then
it may well give you an idea as to what the problem is. To me, it is not
the ignition.
Let us know what you find....
Martin
On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 5:50 PM, James, Clive R <clive.james@uk.bp.com>wrote:
> **
> I'm on here all the while, sorry.
> I'm with the shy guy, given all you have tried and found the only thing it
> can be is the way the fuel is hitting the induction pipes. I did mention the
> carby turning trick at the beginning, not as a solution but something to try
> to see if you can make any change that was before I knew the set up. Is
> there anything at all you can play about with to see if this is the issue?
> The cross in the inlet pipe isn't an option? I know it was suggested some
> time back as well.
>
> There's a guy on another list trying to fix a radio and he's done just
> about everything you could think of, finding something that has some effect
> at all is the next step, won't fix it but might lead on to something else
> that might
>
> The throttle thing, is there anything to the way it works that can be
> improved/inspected/changed/turned around.....dickered with?
>
> Good luck, CJ
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *
> japhillipsga@aol.com
> *Sent:* 18 June 2011 07:24
> *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
>
> J, I pretty much keep off these things, but you seem like a guy in need.
> I have a 3300 in my XL-B. While early into phase 1 the engine would get
> rough, loose power and scare hell out of me. And I tore my hair out for
> hours. Then I learned that the Bing Carb is a delicate and sensitive gadget.
> First, I replaced the SCAT tubing with a 90 degree Gates rubber radiator
> hose from O'Rieliey's Auto parts as the coupling between the carb and the
> air filter box. What was occurring was that intake air from the filter was
> entering the carb inlet unevenly, all on one side and not smoothly and this
> messed with the delicate rubber venture inside the carb that controls
> mixture. Then I made a divider wall of aluminum inside the hose that spands
> from just prior to the inlet all the way around the turn of the hose
> bend(probably 6 inches). Is made out on .25 6061T6 and stays put because of
> the hose bend.This allowed the air stream to be even and smooth as it
> travels to the carb and enters the rear of the Bing. First flight afterward
> was great. Hundreds of flights since, full smooth and dependable power. Only
> other thing might be plugs. Change them and run only the temp Jab says to
> run. Not hotter or colder. Best of luck, Bill of Georgia
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Hone <aerobiz1@gmail.com>
> To: jabiruengine-list <jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 5:36 pm
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
>
> J, it must be frustrating not having any of the engine gurus offer years of
> experience in solving this problem. Maybe they are too busy with all the
> other problems.... ;-)
>
> Anyway, have you tried tilting the carb in its mount to see if the problem
> moves to another cylinder. it is a know problem that the Jab inlet system
> is diabolical.
>
> Martin
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:36 PM, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 06/16/2011 11:16 PM, ces308 wrote:
>>
>>> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "ces308"<ces308@ldaco.com>
>>>
>>> J....
>>>
>>> Did you ever figure out what the problem was???
>>>
>>> chris ambrose
>>> Kolb M3X/Jabiru A-2200 191.0 hrs
>>> N327CS
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Chris...
>>
>> No, I've only been able to eliminate a bunch of items as *not* being the
>> cause:
>>
>> I've been hoping that the two or three guys who monitor this list
>> regularly and work
>> on [Jabiru] engines for a living would contribute. Hoping that maybe they
>> had seen similar
>> symptoms in one of their hundreds or thousands of engines that have
>> passed through their
>> establishments... I see them chiming on other issues all the time. Maybe
>> they're stumped speechless :-)
>>
>> The issue: *both* #3 plugs equally sooty, all other plugs light tan (see
>> previous attached pic)
>>
>> Here's what I've tried:
>>
>> - leak down test consistently good, both cold and warm
>> - h.t. wires to cyl. #3 swapped for #4's. #3 plugs still sooty
>> - distributor innards checked (both would have to have same #3 issue)
>> - all valve springs checked, all lifters checked for soft or collapsed
>> - air gap set to 0.010"
>> - new plugs (obviously)
>> - other miscellaneous checks, such as h.t. wire seating, etc.
>>
>> What I haven't yet tried:
>>
>> - examining the cam. Wouldn't a worn cam lobe result in not enough lift
>> and a *lean* mixture
>> on that cylinder?
>> - using a vacuum gauge. Where could I connect it (no Bing, remember) ? Do
>> I
>> need to drill and weld in a nipple in the intake manifold?
>>
>> So the question stands. What could cause either:
>>
>> - a single cylinder of six to run so rich as to actually foul *both* plugs
>>
>> or
>>
>> - the two plugs of the single cylinder not to fire sufficiently to burn
>> off the charge
>>
>> ...keeping in mind the trouble-shooting items I have already eliminated...
>>
>> So far, I've flown about an hour since my pre-flight mag test went back to
>> normal, probably
>> as a result of replacing #3 plugs, likely one or both were fouled.
>>
>> But my confidence level is low, as I wait for the current #3 plugs to
>> foul. I just wish I could
>> discover the reason for this behaviour!
>>
>> Thanks to all for the input!
>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/**viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Regards, J.
>>
>> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
>> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
>> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>>
>> -----------------------------
>> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
>> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
>> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
>> http://cleco.ca
>>
>>
>> I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour
>> in only ten minutes.
>> --- Steven Wright
>>
>>
>> ====**==============================**=
>> -
>> ine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**
>> Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>> ====**==============================**=
>> MS -
>> k">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ====**=====**=
>> e -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**contribution
>> ====**==============================**=
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> tor?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
On 06/18/2011 04:10 AM, Martin Hone wrote:
> J,
>
> Both the experts and non-experts have suggested rotating the carb in the rubber
coupling
> to see what effect it may have. If it has any effect then it may well give you
an idea
> as to what the problem is. To me, it is not the ignition.
>
> Let us know what you find....
>
> Martin
>
Thanks for all the responses. I will try rotating the AeroCarb slightly to see
if I can
lean out the 1-3-5 side and enrichen the 2-4-6
side (which *does* run hotter). I can see this working for a bank, but just one
cylinder
in a bank? But it's easy enough to try...
I'm feeling slightly better about this issue for a couple of reasons. Firstly,
I've now
put a couple of hours of flying, both around the patch
and some longer excursions. The rough running has not returned, and my pre-flight
mag
checks are still good. Secondly, I made
a 30 minute flight yesterday to the local 100LL bar. I'd been using Shell VeePower
(93
octane, no ethanol) so far this season (I normally stick with 100LL).
On the way there, #3 cyl's EGTs were some 20-30 degrees C (68-86 F) less than the
average
of the others, consistent with a richer mixture. But
after filling with 100LL, the flight home showed #3's EGTs right there with nall
the
others. I haven't yet checked the plugs of #3, but
I'm optimistic that they will be in line with the other plugs when I do. Not sure
*why*
the 100LL would have selectively affected #3, however. I'll keep you posted.
And I do think I will make the change to Iridium plugs eventually
Thanks again. Some more in-line comments follow:
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 5:50 PM, James, Clive R <clive.james@uk.bp.com
> <mailto:clive.james@uk.bp.com>> wrote:
>
> I'm on here all the while, sorry.
>
Yes, Clive, I realize you've been here all the while. Thanks!
> I'm with the shy guy, given all you have tried and found the only thing it
can be is
> the way the fuel is hitting the induction pipes. I did mention the carby
turning
> trick at the beginning, not as a solution but something to try to see if
you can
> make any change that was before I knew the set up. Is there anything at all
you can
> play about with to see if this is the issue? The cross in the inlet pipe
isn't an
> option? I know it was suggested some time back as well.
>
True. My induction side is pretty simple: an AeroCarb is connected to the intake
manifold
with about a 3" rubber coupling. A K&N filter is directly
attached to the intake side of the AeroCarb. I could maybe try the 'cross' divider
inserted into the short rubber coupler length...
>
> There's a guy on another list trying to fix a radio and he's done just about
> everything you could think of, finding something that has some effect at
all is the
> next step, won't fix it but might lead on to something else that might
> The throttle thing, is there anything to the way it works that can be
> improved/inspected/changed/turned around.....dickered with?
>
Not really. The AeroCarb uses a slide for throttle control, I can't think of anything
to
dicker with :-)
>
> Good luck, CJ
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>] *On Behalf Of
> *japhillipsga@aol.com <mailto:japhillipsga@aol.com>
> *Sent:* 18 June 2011 07:24
> *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com <mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
>
> J, I pretty much keep off these things, but you seem like a guy in need.
I have a
> 3300 in my XL-B. While early into phase 1 the engine would get rough, loose
power
> and scare hell out of me. And I tore my hair out for hours. Then I learned
that the
> Bing Carb is a delicate and sensitive gadget. First, I replaced the SCAT
tubing with
> a 90 degree Gates rubber radiator hose from O'Rieliey's Auto parts as the
coupling
> between the carb and the air filter box. What was occurring was that intake
air from
> the filter was entering the carb inlet unevenly, all on one side and not
smoothly
> and this messed with the delicate rubber venture inside the carb that controls
> mixture. Then I made a divider wall of aluminum inside the hose that spands
from
> just prior to the inlet all the way around the turn of the hose bend(probably
6
> inches). Is made out on .25 6061T6 and stays put because of the hose bend.This
> # allowed the air stream to be even and smooth as it travels
> to the carb and enters the rear of the Bing. First flight afterward was great.
> Hundreds of flights since, full smooth and dependable power. Only other thing
might
> be plugs. Change them and run only the temp Jab says to run. Not hotter or
colder.
> Best of luck, Bill of Georgia
>
See induction system description above...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Hone <aerobiz1@gmail.com <mailto:aerobiz1@gmail.com>>
> To: jabiruengine-list <jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>>
> Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 5:36 pm
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
>
> J, it must be frustrating not having any of the engine gurus offer years
of
> experience in solving this problem. Maybe they are too busy with all the
other
> problems.... ;-)
>
> Anyway, have you tried tilting the carb in its mount to see if the problem
moves to
> another cylinder. it is a know problem that the Jab inlet system is diabolical.
>
> Martin
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:36 PM, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca
> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>> wrote:
>
> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>
>
> On 06/16/2011 11:16 PM, ces308 wrote:
>
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "ces308"<ces308@ldaco.com
> <mailto:ces308@ldaco.com>>
>
> J....
>
> Did you ever figure out what the problem was???
>
> chris ambrose
> Kolb M3X/Jabiru A-2200 191.0 hrs
> N327CS
>
>
> Hi Chris...
>
> No, I've only been able to eliminate a bunch of items as *not* being
the cause:
>
> I've been hoping that the two or three guys who monitor this list regularly
and work
> on [Jabiru] engines for a living would contribute. Hoping that maybe
they had
> seen similar
> symptoms in one of their hundreds or thousands of engines that have
passed
> through their
> establishments... I see them chiming on other issues all the time. Maybe
> they're stumped speechless :-)
>
> The issue: *both* #3 plugs equally sooty, all other plugs light tan (see
> previous attached pic)
>
> Here's what I've tried:
>
> - leak down test consistently good, both cold and warm
> - h.t. wires to cyl. #3 swapped for #4's. #3 plugs still sooty
> - distributor innards checked (both would have to have same #3 issue)
> - all valve springs checked, all lifters checked for soft or collapsed
> - air gap set to 0.010"
> - new plugs (obviously)
> - other miscellaneous checks, such as h.t. wire seating, etc.
>
> What I haven't yet tried:
>
> - examining the cam. Wouldn't a worn cam lobe result in not enough lift
and a
> *lean* mixture
> on that cylinder?
> - using a vacuum gauge. Where could I connect it (no Bing, remember)
? Do I
> need to drill and weld in a nipple in the intake manifold?
>
> So the question stands. What could cause either:
>
> - a single cylinder of six to run so rich as to actually foul *both*
plugs
>
> or
>
> - the two plugs of the single cylinder not to fire sufficiently to burn
off the
> charge
>
> ...keeping in mind the trouble-shooting items I have already eliminated...
>
> So far, I've flown about an hour since my pre-flight mag test went back
to
> normal, probably
> as a result of replacing #3 plugs, likely one or both were fouled.
>
> But my confidence level is low, as I wait for the current #3 plugs to
foul. I
> just wish I could
> discover the reason for this behaviour!
>
> Thanks to all for the input!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249
>
>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>
> -----------------------------
> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca <http://lawsonimaging.ca>
> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
> http://cleco.ca
>
>
> I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour
> in only ten minutes.
> --- Steven Wright
>
>
> ===================================
> -
> ine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> ===================================
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
> *
>
> tor?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
-----------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
http://cleco.ca
If you can't hear me, it's because I'm in parentheses.
--- Steven Wright
Message 4
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| Subject: | Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
J, I can't remember, have you changed the flow divider to a round tube?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of j.
davis
Sent: 18 June 2011 14:47
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
--> <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
On 06/18/2011 04:10 AM, Martin Hone wrote:
> J,
>
> Both the experts and non-experts have suggested rotating the carb in
> the rubber coupling to see what effect it may have. If it has any
> effect then it may well give you an idea as to what the problem is.
To me, it is not the ignition.
>
> Let us know what you find....
>
> Martin
>
Thanks for all the responses. I will try rotating the AeroCarb slightly
to see if I can lean out the 1-3-5 side and enrichen the 2-4-6 side
(which *does* run hotter). I can see this working for a bank, but just
one cylinder in a bank? But it's easy enough to try...
I'm feeling slightly better about this issue for a couple of reasons.
Firstly, I've now put a couple of hours of flying, both around the patch
and some longer excursions. The rough running has not returned, and my
pre-flight mag checks are still good. Secondly, I made a 30 minute
flight yesterday to the local 100LL bar. I'd been using Shell VeePower
(93 octane, no ethanol) so far this season (I normally stick with
100LL).
On the way there, #3 cyl's EGTs were some 20-30 degrees C (68-86 F) less
than the average of the others, consistent with a richer mixture. But
after filling with 100LL, the flight home showed #3's EGTs right there
with nall the others. I haven't yet checked the plugs of #3, but I'm
optimistic that they will be in line with the other plugs when I do. Not
sure *why* the 100LL would have selectively affected #3, however. I'll
keep you posted.
And I do think I will make the change to Iridium plugs eventually
Thanks again. Some more in-line comments follow:
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 5:50 PM, James, Clive R <clive.james@uk.bp.com
> <mailto:clive.james@uk.bp.com>> wrote:
>
> I'm on here all the while, sorry.
>
Yes, Clive, I realize you've been here all the while. Thanks!
> I'm with the shy guy, given all you have tried and found the only
thing it can be is
> the way the fuel is hitting the induction pipes. I did mention the
carby turning
> trick at the beginning, not as a solution but something to try to
see if you can
> make any change that was before I knew the set up. Is there
anything at all you can
> play about with to see if this is the issue? The cross in the
inlet pipe isn't an
> option? I know it was suggested some time back as well.
>
True. My induction side is pretty simple: an AeroCarb is connected to
the intake manifold with about a 3" rubber coupling. A K&N filter is
directly attached to the intake side of the AeroCarb. I could maybe try
the 'cross' divider inserted into the short rubber coupler length...
>
> There's a guy on another list trying to fix a radio and he's done
just about
> everything you could think of, finding something that has some
effect at all is the
> next step, won't fix it but might lead on to something else that
might
> The throttle thing, is there anything to the way it works that can
be
> improved/inspected/changed/turned around.....dickered with?
>
Not really. The AeroCarb uses a slide for throttle control, I can't
think of anything to dicker with :-)
>
> Good luck, CJ
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
> *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>] *On Behalf
Of
> *japhillipsga@aol.com <mailto:japhillipsga@aol.com>
> *Sent:* 18 June 2011 07:24
> *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
<mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
>
> J, I pretty much keep off these things, but you seem like a guy in
need. I have a
> 3300 in my XL-B. While early into phase 1 the engine would get
rough, loose power
> and scare hell out of me. And I tore my hair out for hours. Then I
learned that the
> Bing Carb is a delicate and sensitive gadget. First, I replaced
the SCAT tubing with
> a 90 degree Gates rubber radiator hose from O'Rieliey's Auto parts
as the coupling
> between the carb and the air filter box. What was occurring was
that intake air from
> the filter was entering the carb inlet unevenly, all on one side
and not smoothly
> and this messed with the delicate rubber venture inside the carb
that controls
> mixture. Then I made a divider wall of aluminum inside the hose
that spands from
> just prior to the inlet all the way around the turn of the hose
bend(probably 6
> inches). Is made out on .25 6061T6 and stays put because of the
hose bend.This
> # allowed the air stream to be even and smooth as it travels
> to the carb and enters the rear of the Bing. First flight
afterward was great.
> Hundreds of flights since, full smooth and dependable power. Only
other thing might
> be plugs. Change them and run only the temp Jab says to run. Not
hotter or colder.
> Best of luck, Bill of Georgia
>
See induction system description above...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Hone <aerobiz1@gmail.com <mailto:aerobiz1@gmail.com>>
> To: jabiruengine-list <jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>>
> Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 5:36 pm
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough running
puzzle.
>
> J, it must be frustrating not having any of the engine gurus offer
years of
> experience in solving this problem. Maybe they are too busy with
all the other
> problems.... ;-)
>
> Anyway, have you tried tilting the carb in its mount to see if the
problem moves to
> another cylinder. it is a know problem that the Jab inlet system
is diabolical.
>
> Martin
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:36 PM, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca
> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>> wrote:
>
<jd@lawsonimaging.ca
> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>
>
> On 06/16/2011 11:16 PM, ces308 wrote:
>
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by:
"ces308"<ces308@ldaco.com
> <mailto:ces308@ldaco.com>>
>
> J....
>
> Did you ever figure out what the problem was???
>
> chris ambrose
> Kolb M3X/Jabiru A-2200 191.0 hrs
> N327CS
>
>
> Hi Chris...
>
> No, I've only been able to eliminate a bunch of items as *not*
being the cause:
>
> I've been hoping that the two or three guys who monitor this
list regularly and work
> on [Jabiru] engines for a living would contribute. Hoping that
maybe they had
> seen similar
> symptoms in one of their hundreds or thousands of engines
that have passed
> through their
> establishments... I see them chiming on other issues all the
time. Maybe
> they're stumped speechless :-)
>
> The issue: *both* #3 plugs equally sooty, all other plugs
light tan (see
> previous attached pic)
>
> Here's what I've tried:
>
> - leak down test consistently good, both cold and warm
> - h.t. wires to cyl. #3 swapped for #4's. #3 plugs still sooty
> - distributor innards checked (both would have to have same #3
issue)
> - all valve springs checked, all lifters checked for soft or
collapsed
> - air gap set to 0.010"
> - new plugs (obviously)
> - other miscellaneous checks, such as h.t. wire seating, etc.
>
> What I haven't yet tried:
>
> - examining the cam. Wouldn't a worn cam lobe result in not
enough lift and a
> *lean* mixture
> on that cylinder?
> - using a vacuum gauge. Where could I connect it (no Bing,
remember) ? Do I
> need to drill and weld in a nipple in the intake manifold?
>
> So the question stands. What could cause either:
>
> - a single cylinder of six to run so rich as to actually foul
> *both* plugs
>
> or
>
> - the two plugs of the single cylinder not to fire
sufficiently to burn off the
> charge
>
> ...keeping in mind the trouble-shooting items I have already
eliminated...
>
> So far, I've flown about an hour since my pre-flight mag test
went back to
> normal, probably
> as a result of replacing #3 plugs, likely one or both were
fouled.
>
> But my confidence level is low, as I wait for the current #3
plugs to foul. I
> just wish I could
> discover the reason for this behaviour!
>
> Thanks to all for the input!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249
>
>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>
> -----------------------------
> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca <http://lawsonimaging.ca>
> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
> http://cleco.ca
>
>
> I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour
> in only ten minutes.
> --- Steven Wright
>
>
> ===================================
> -
> ine-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> ===================================
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
> *
>
>
tor?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-L
ist
> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
> ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
-----------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
http://cleco.ca
If you can't hear me, it's because I'm in parentheses.
--- Steven Wright
Message 5
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|
| Subject: | Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
On 06/18/2011 10:34 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "James, Clive R"<clive.james@uk.bp.com>
>
> J, I can't remember, have you changed the flow divider to a round tube?
Hi Clive... no, made no such change to date, no reason to do so (to date :-) )
Not being overly quick to make engine mods, I'm not actually aware of this flow
divider mod...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of j.
> davis
> Sent: 18 June 2011 14:47
> To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
>
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis"
> --> <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
>
> On 06/18/2011 04:10 AM, Martin Hone wrote:
>> J,
>>
>> Both the experts and non-experts have suggested rotating the carb in
>> the rubber coupling to see what effect it may have. If it has any
>> effect then it may well give you an idea as to what the problem is.
> To me, it is not the ignition.
>> Let us know what you find....
>>
>> Martin
>>
> Thanks for all the responses. I will try rotating the AeroCarb slightly
> to see if I can lean out the 1-3-5 side and enrichen the 2-4-6 side
> (which *does* run hotter). I can see this working for a bank, but just
> one cylinder in a bank? But it's easy enough to try...
>
> I'm feeling slightly better about this issue for a couple of reasons.
> Firstly, I've now put a couple of hours of flying, both around the patch
> and some longer excursions. The rough running has not returned, and my
> pre-flight mag checks are still good. Secondly, I made a 30 minute
> flight yesterday to the local 100LL bar. I'd been using Shell VeePower
> (93 octane, no ethanol) so far this season (I normally stick with
> 100LL).
>
> On the way there, #3 cyl's EGTs were some 20-30 degrees C (68-86 F) less
> than the average of the others, consistent with a richer mixture. But
> after filling with 100LL, the flight home showed #3's EGTs right there
> with nall the others. I haven't yet checked the plugs of #3, but I'm
> optimistic that they will be in line with the other plugs when I do. Not
> sure *why* the 100LL would have selectively affected #3, however. I'll
> keep you posted.
>
> And I do think I will make the change to Iridium plugs eventually
>
> Thanks again. Some more in-line comments follow:
>
>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 5:50 PM, James, Clive R<clive.james@uk.bp.com
>> <mailto:clive.james@uk.bp.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm on here all the while, sorry.
>>
> Yes, Clive, I realize you've been here all the while. Thanks!
>
>> I'm with the shy guy, given all you have tried and found the only
> thing it can be is
>> the way the fuel is hitting the induction pipes. I did mention the
> carby turning
>> trick at the beginning, not as a solution but something to try to
> see if you can
>> make any change that was before I knew the set up. Is there
> anything at all you can
>> play about with to see if this is the issue? The cross in the
> inlet pipe isn't an
>> option? I know it was suggested some time back as well.
>>
> True. My induction side is pretty simple: an AeroCarb is connected to
> the intake manifold with about a 3" rubber coupling. A K&N filter is
> directly attached to the intake side of the AeroCarb. I could maybe try
> the 'cross' divider inserted into the short rubber coupler length...
>> There's a guy on another list trying to fix a radio and he's done
> just about
>> everything you could think of, finding something that has some
> effect at all is the
>> next step, won't fix it but might lead on to something else that
> might
>> The throttle thing, is there anything to the way it works that can
> be
>> improved/inspected/changed/turned around.....dickered with?
>>
> Not really. The AeroCarb uses a slide for throttle control, I can't
> think of anything to dicker with :-)
>> Good luck, CJ
>>
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------
>> *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
>> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>
>> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
>> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>] *On Behalf
> Of
>> *japhillipsga@aol.com<mailto:japhillipsga@aol.com>
>> *Sent:* 18 June 2011 07:24
>> *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
>> *Subject:* JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
>>
>> J, I pretty much keep off these things, but you seem like a guy in
> need. I have a
>> 3300 in my XL-B. While early into phase 1 the engine would get
> rough, loose power
>> and scare hell out of me. And I tore my hair out for hours. Then I
> learned that the
>> Bing Carb is a delicate and sensitive gadget. First, I replaced
> the SCAT tubing with
>> a 90 degree Gates rubber radiator hose from O'Rieliey's Auto parts
> as the coupling
>> between the carb and the air filter box. What was occurring was
> that intake air from
>> the filter was entering the carb inlet unevenly, all on one side
> and not smoothly
>> and this messed with the delicate rubber venture inside the carb
> that controls
>> mixture. Then I made a divider wall of aluminum inside the hose
> that spands from
>> just prior to the inlet all the way around the turn of the hose
> bend(probably 6
>> inches). Is made out on .25 6061T6 and stays put because of the
> hose bend.This
>> # allowed the air stream to be even and smooth as it travels
>> to the carb and enters the rear of the Bing. First flight
> afterward was great.
>> Hundreds of flights since, full smooth and dependable power. Only
> other thing might
>> be plugs. Change them and run only the temp Jab says to run. Not
> hotter or colder.
>> Best of luck, Bill of Georgia
>>
> See induction system description above...
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Martin Hone<aerobiz1@gmail.com<mailto:aerobiz1@gmail.com>>
>> To: jabiruengine-list<jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
>> <mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>>
>> Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 5:36 pm
>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough running
> puzzle.
>> J, it must be frustrating not having any of the engine gurus offer
> years of
>> experience in solving this problem. Maybe they are too busy with
> all the other
>> problems.... ;-)
>>
>> Anyway, have you tried tilting the carb in its mount to see if the
> problem moves to
>> another cylinder. it is a know problem that the Jab inlet system
> is diabolical.
>> Martin
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:36 PM, j. davis<jd@lawsonimaging.ca
>> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>> wrote:
>>
>> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis"
> <jd@lawsonimaging.ca
>> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>
>>
>> On 06/16/2011 11:16 PM, ces308 wrote:
>>
>> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by:
> "ces308"<ces308@ldaco.com
>> <mailto:ces308@ldaco.com>>
>>
>> J....
>>
>> Did you ever figure out what the problem was???
>>
>> chris ambrose
>> Kolb M3X/Jabiru A-2200 191.0 hrs
>> N327CS
>>
>>
>> Hi Chris...
>>
>> No, I've only been able to eliminate a bunch of items as *not*
> being the cause:
>> I've been hoping that the two or three guys who monitor this
> list regularly and work
>> on [Jabiru] engines for a living would contribute. Hoping that
> maybe they had
>> seen similar
>> symptoms in one of their hundreds or thousands of engines
> that have passed
>> through their
>> establishments... I see them chiming on other issues all the
> time. Maybe
>> they're stumped speechless :-)
>>
>> The issue: *both* #3 plugs equally sooty, all other plugs
> light tan (see
>> previous attached pic)
>>
>> Here's what I've tried:
>>
>> - leak down test consistently good, both cold and warm
>> - h.t. wires to cyl. #3 swapped for #4's. #3 plugs still sooty
>> - distributor innards checked (both would have to have same #3
> issue)
>> - all valve springs checked, all lifters checked for soft or
> collapsed
>> - air gap set to 0.010"
>> - new plugs (obviously)
>> - other miscellaneous checks, such as h.t. wire seating, etc.
>>
>> What I haven't yet tried:
>>
>> - examining the cam. Wouldn't a worn cam lobe result in not
> enough lift and a
>> *lean* mixture
>> on that cylinder?
>> - using a vacuum gauge. Where could I connect it (no Bing,
> remember) ? Do I
>> need to drill and weld in a nipple in the intake manifold?
>>
>> So the question stands. What could cause either:
>>
>> - a single cylinder of six to run so rich as to actually foul
>> *both* plugs
>>
>> or
>>
>> - the two plugs of the single cylinder not to fire
> sufficiently to burn off the
>> charge
>>
>> ...keeping in mind the trouble-shooting items I have already
> eliminated...
>> So far, I've flown about an hour since my pre-flight mag test
> went back to
>> normal, probably
>> as a result of replacing #3 plugs, likely one or both were
> fouled.
>> But my confidence level is low, as I wait for the current #3
> plugs to foul. I
>> just wish I could
>> discover the reason for this behaviour!
>>
>> Thanks to all for the input!
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards, J.
>>
>> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
>> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
>> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>>
>> -----------------------------
>> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
>> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca<http://lawsonimaging.ca>
>> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
>> http://cleco.ca
>>
>>
>> I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour
>> in only ten minutes.
>> --- Steven Wright
>>
>>
>> ===================================
>> -
>> ine-List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>> ===================================
>> MS -
>> k">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> e -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ===================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
> tor?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-L
> ist
>> tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com>
>> bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.m
> atronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> ist"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>
> -----------------------------
> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
> http://cleco.ca
>
>
> If you can't hear me, it's because I'm in parentheses.
> --- Steven Wright
>
>
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
-----------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
http://cleco.ca
Four years ago..............no, it was yesterday.
--- Steven Wright
Message 6
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|
| Subject: | Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
J, Glad to hear you have seen some flight time and may be on your way out of your
problem. But, as per Jabiru 3300 engine manual; "Leaded and Unleaded Automotive
Gasoline above 95 Octane RON." It is very possible that running 93 octane
may have contributed to your problem, showing up on #3 first. I don't remember
if you had the same issues while running 100LL before.
How long have you been running the 93 octane fuel??
IHO, stay away from the 93 octane regardless of whether it was your problem or
not...Don B
--------
Zenith 701 #76120
Jabiru 2200A #2456 95 hours
Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343392#343392
Message 7
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| Subject: | Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
Inside the manifold arrangement where the air goes in and the pipes go
out there's a flow divider. Jab made it aero shaped or some such.
One of the bolts that holds the manifold on to the sump goes through it.
If you look under the manifold you'll figure the one it is.
It's recommended to change it to a bit of 1/2 inch tube to cause some
turbulence. Might be just what you need.
I think there's a SB on the Jab Oz website, or maybe it's just a
recommendation from South Africa
Some pictures on the Yahoo Jab engines website I think.
I plan to do it but just haven't got round to it....part of a
recommended change with some work on the Bing drilling out some stuff.
It's not a technical mod, just a bolt on bolt off job.
Regards, Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of j.
davis
Sent: 18 June 2011 15:55
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
--> <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
On 06/18/2011 10:34 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "James, Clive
> --> R"<clive.james@uk.bp.com>
>
> J, I can't remember, have you changed the flow divider to a round
tube?
Hi Clive... no, made no such change to date, no reason to do so (to date
:-) ) Not being overly quick to make engine mods, I'm not actually aware
of this flow divider mod...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of j.
> davis
> Sent: 18 June 2011 14:47
> To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
>
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis"
> --> <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
>
> On 06/18/2011 04:10 AM, Martin Hone wrote:
>> J,
>>
>> Both the experts and non-experts have suggested rotating the carb in
>> the rubber coupling to see what effect it may have. If it has any
>> effect then it may well give you an idea as to what the problem is.
> To me, it is not the ignition.
>> Let us know what you find....
>>
>> Martin
>>
> Thanks for all the responses. I will try rotating the AeroCarb
> slightly to see if I can lean out the 1-3-5 side and enrichen the
> 2-4-6 side (which *does* run hotter). I can see this working for a
> bank, but just one cylinder in a bank? But it's easy enough to try...
>
> I'm feeling slightly better about this issue for a couple of reasons.
> Firstly, I've now put a couple of hours of flying, both around the
> patch and some longer excursions. The rough running has not returned,
> and my pre-flight mag checks are still good. Secondly, I made a 30
> minute flight yesterday to the local 100LL bar. I'd been using Shell
> VeePower
> (93 octane, no ethanol) so far this season (I normally stick with
> 100LL).
>
> On the way there, #3 cyl's EGTs were some 20-30 degrees C (68-86 F)
> less than the average of the others, consistent with a richer mixture.
> But after filling with 100LL, the flight home showed #3's EGTs right
> there with nall the others. I haven't yet checked the plugs of #3, but
> I'm optimistic that they will be in line with the other plugs when I
> do. Not sure *why* the 100LL would have selectively affected #3,
> however. I'll keep you posted.
>
> And I do think I will make the change to Iridium plugs eventually
>
> Thanks again. Some more in-line comments follow:
>
>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 5:50 PM, James, Clive R<clive.james@uk.bp.com
>> <mailto:clive.james@uk.bp.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm on here all the while, sorry.
>>
> Yes, Clive, I realize you've been here all the while. Thanks!
>
>> I'm with the shy guy, given all you have tried and found the
>> only
> thing it can be is
>> the way the fuel is hitting the induction pipes. I did mention
>> the
> carby turning
>> trick at the beginning, not as a solution but something to try
>> to
> see if you can
>> make any change that was before I knew the set up. Is there
> anything at all you can
>> play about with to see if this is the issue? The cross in the
> inlet pipe isn't an
>> option? I know it was suggested some time back as well.
>>
> True. My induction side is pretty simple: an AeroCarb is connected to
> the intake manifold with about a 3" rubber coupling. A K&N filter is
> directly attached to the intake side of the AeroCarb. I could maybe
> try the 'cross' divider inserted into the short rubber coupler
length...
>> There's a guy on another list trying to fix a radio and he's
>> done
> just about
>> everything you could think of, finding something that has some
> effect at all is the
>> next step, won't fix it but might lead on to something else that
> might
>> The throttle thing, is there anything to the way it works that
>> can
> be
>> improved/inspected/changed/turned around.....dickered with?
>>
> Not really. The AeroCarb uses a slide for throttle control, I can't
> think of anything to dicker with :-)
>> Good luck, CJ
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> ------------------
>> *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
>> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>
>> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
>> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>] *On
>> Behalf
> Of
>> *japhillipsga@aol.com<mailto:japhillipsga@aol.com>
>> *Sent:* 18 June 2011 07:24
>> *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
>> *Subject:* JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
>>
>> J, I pretty much keep off these things, but you seem like a guy
>> in
> need. I have a
>> 3300 in my XL-B. While early into phase 1 the engine would get
> rough, loose power
>> and scare hell out of me. And I tore my hair out for hours. Then
>> I
> learned that the
>> Bing Carb is a delicate and sensitive gadget. First, I replaced
> the SCAT tubing with
>> a 90 degree Gates rubber radiator hose from O'Rieliey's Auto
>> parts
> as the coupling
>> between the carb and the air filter box. What was occurring was
> that intake air from
>> the filter was entering the carb inlet unevenly, all on one side
> and not smoothly
>> and this messed with the delicate rubber venture inside the carb
> that controls
>> mixture. Then I made a divider wall of aluminum inside the hose
> that spands from
>> just prior to the inlet all the way around the turn of the hose
> bend(probably 6
>> inches). Is made out on .25 6061T6 and stays put because of the
> hose bend.This
>> # allowed the air stream to be even and smooth as it travels
>> to the carb and enters the rear of the Bing. First flight
> afterward was great.
>> Hundreds of flights since, full smooth and dependable power.
>> Only
> other thing might
>> be plugs. Change them and run only the temp Jab says to run. Not
> hotter or colder.
>> Best of luck, Bill of Georgia
>>
> See induction system description above...
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Martin Hone<aerobiz1@gmail.com<mailto:aerobiz1@gmail.com>>
>> To: jabiruengine-list<jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
>> <mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>>
>> Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 5:36 pm
>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough running
> puzzle.
>> J, it must be frustrating not having any of the engine gurus
>> offer
> years of
>> experience in solving this problem. Maybe they are too busy with
> all the other
>> problems.... ;-)
>>
>> Anyway, have you tried tilting the carb in its mount to see if
>> the
> problem moves to
>> another cylinder. it is a know problem that the Jab inlet
>> system
> is diabolical.
>> Martin
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:36 PM, j. davis<jd@lawsonimaging.ca
>> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>> wrote:
>>
>> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis"
> <jd@lawsonimaging.ca
>> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>
>>
>> On 06/16/2011 11:16 PM, ces308 wrote:
>>
>> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by:
> "ces308"<ces308@ldaco.com
>> <mailto:ces308@ldaco.com>>
>>
>> J....
>>
>> Did you ever figure out what the problem was???
>>
>> chris ambrose
>> Kolb M3X/Jabiru A-2200 191.0 hrs
>> N327CS
>>
>>
>> Hi Chris...
>>
>> No, I've only been able to eliminate a bunch of items as
>> *not*
> being the cause:
>> I've been hoping that the two or three guys who monitor this
> list regularly and work
>> on [Jabiru] engines for a living would contribute. Hoping
>> that
> maybe they had
>> seen similar
>> symptoms in one of their hundreds or thousands of engines
> that have passed
>> through their
>> establishments... I see them chiming on other issues all
>> the
> time. Maybe
>> they're stumped speechless :-)
>>
>> The issue: *both* #3 plugs equally sooty, all other plugs
> light tan (see
>> previous attached pic)
>>
>> Here's what I've tried:
>>
>> - leak down test consistently good, both cold and warm
>> - h.t. wires to cyl. #3 swapped for #4's. #3 plugs still
sooty
>> - distributor innards checked (both would have to have same
>> #3
> issue)
>> - all valve springs checked, all lifters checked for soft or
> collapsed
>> - air gap set to 0.010"
>> - new plugs (obviously)
>> - other miscellaneous checks, such as h.t. wire seating,
etc.
>>
>> What I haven't yet tried:
>>
>> - examining the cam. Wouldn't a worn cam lobe result in not
> enough lift and a
>> *lean* mixture
>> on that cylinder?
>> - using a vacuum gauge. Where could I connect it (no Bing,
> remember) ? Do I
>> need to drill and weld in a nipple in the intake manifold?
>>
>> So the question stands. What could cause either:
>>
>> - a single cylinder of six to run so rich as to actually
>> foul
>> *both* plugs
>>
>> or
>>
>> - the two plugs of the single cylinder not to fire
> sufficiently to burn off the
>> charge
>>
>> ...keeping in mind the trouble-shooting items I have already
> eliminated...
>> So far, I've flown about an hour since my pre-flight mag
>> test
> went back to
>> normal, probably
>> as a result of replacing #3 plugs, likely one or both were
> fouled.
>> But my confidence level is low, as I wait for the current #3
> plugs to foul. I
>> just wish I could
>> discover the reason for this behaviour!
>>
>> Thanks to all for the input!
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards, J.
>>
>> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
>> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
>> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>>
>> -----------------------------
>> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
>> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca<http://lawsonimaging.ca>
>> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
>> http://cleco.ca
>>
>>
>> I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour
>> in only ten minutes.
>> --- Steven Wright
>>
>>
>> ===================================
>> -
>> ine-List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>> ===================================
>> MS -
>> k">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> e -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ===================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
> tor?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine
> -L
> ist
>> tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com>
>> bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www
> .m atronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
> c
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> ist"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>
> -----------------------------
> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
> http://cleco.ca
>
>
> If you can't hear me, it's because I'm in parentheses.
> --- Steven Wright
>
>
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
-----------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
http://cleco.ca
Four years ago..............no, it was yesterday.
--- Steven Wright
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
Don,
US 93 octane is about 98 octane RON. Read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
Rob
On 6/18/2011 4:58 PM, dons701 wrote:
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "dons701"<burdon1@comcast.net>
>
> J, Glad to hear you have seen some flight time and may be on your way out of
your problem. But, as per Jabiru 3300 engine manual; "Leaded and Unleaded Automotive
Gasoline above 95 Octane RON." It is very possible that running 93 octane
may have contributed to your problem, showing up on #3 first. I don't remember
if you had the same issues while running 100LL before.
> How long have you been running the 93 octane fuel??
> IHO, stay away from the 93 octane regardless of whether it was your problem
or not...Don B
>
> --------
> Zenith 701 #76120
> Jabiru 2200A #2456 95 hours
> Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343392#343392
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
J;s. problem only appeared this spring after not being run for the winter a
s I recall.It was fine when he shut it down last fall,and then the issue be
gan on start up this spring,one of the reasons I suspected valve sticking o
r broken spring allowing compressed gases back into the intake manifold whe
re they can cause problems on one cylinder only and also come and go at tim
es.
-----Original Message-----
From: James, Clive R <clive.james@uk.bp.com>
Sent: Sat, Jun 18, 2011 11:23 am
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
p.com>
Inside the manifold arrangement where the air goes in and the pipes go
out there's a flow divider. Jab made it aero shaped or some such.
One of the bolts that holds the manifold on to the sump goes through it.
If you look under the manifold you'll figure the one it is.
It's recommended to change it to a bit of 1/2 inch tube to cause some
turbulence. Might be just what you need.
I think there's a SB on the Jab Oz website, or maybe it's just a
recommendation from South Africa
Some pictures on the Yahoo Jab engines website I think.
I plan to do it but just haven't got round to it....part of a
recommended change with some work on the Bing drilling out some stuff.
It's not a technical mod, just a bolt on bolt off job.
Regards, Clive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of j.
davis
Sent: 18 June 2011 15:55
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
--> <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
On 06/18/2011 10:34 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "James, Clive
> --> R"<clive.james@uk.bp.com>
>
> J, I can't remember, have you changed the flow divider to a round
tube?
Hi Clive... no, made no such change to date, no reason to do so (to date
:-) ) Not being overly quick to make engine mods, I'm not actually aware
of this flow divider mod...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of j.
> davis
> Sent: 18 June 2011 14:47
> To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
>
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis"
> --> <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
>
> On 06/18/2011 04:10 AM, Martin Hone wrote:
>> J,
>>
>> Both the experts and non-experts have suggested rotating the carb in
>> the rubber coupling to see what effect it may have. If it has any
>> effect then it may well give you an idea as to what the problem is.
> To me, it is not the ignition.
>> Let us know what you find....
>>
>> Martin
>>
> Thanks for all the responses. I will try rotating the AeroCarb
> slightly to see if I can lean out the 1-3-5 side and enrichen the
> 2-4-6 side (which *does* run hotter). I can see this working for a
> bank, but just one cylinder in a bank? But it's easy enough to try...
>
> I'm feeling slightly better about this issue for a couple of reasons.
> Firstly, I've now put a couple of hours of flying, both around the
> patch and some longer excursions. The rough running has not returned,
> and my pre-flight mag checks are still good. Secondly, I made a 30
> minute flight yesterday to the local 100LL bar. I'd been using Shell
> VeePower
> (93 octane, no ethanol) so far this season (I normally stick with
> 100LL).
>
> On the way there, #3 cyl's EGTs were some 20-30 degrees C (68-86 F)
> less than the average of the others, consistent with a richer mixture.
> But after filling with 100LL, the flight home showed #3's EGTs right
> there with nall the others. I haven't yet checked the plugs of #3, but
> I'm optimistic that they will be in line with the other plugs when I
> do. Not sure *why* the 100LL would have selectively affected #3,
> however. I'll keep you posted.
>
> And I do think I will make the change to Iridium plugs eventually
>
> Thanks again. Some more in-line comments follow:
>
>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 5:50 PM, James, Clive R<clive.james@uk.bp.com
>> <mailto:clive.james@uk.bp.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm on here all the while, sorry.
>>
> Yes, Clive, I realize you've been here all the while. Thanks!
>
>> I'm with the shy guy, given all you have tried and found the
>> only
> thing it can be is
>> the way the fuel is hitting the induction pipes. I did mention
>> the
> carby turning
>> trick at the beginning, not as a solution but something to try
>> to
> see if you can
>> make any change that was before I knew the set up. Is there
> anything at all you can
>> play about with to see if this is the issue? The cross in the
> inlet pipe isn't an
>> option? I know it was suggested some time back as well.
>>
> True. My induction side is pretty simple: an AeroCarb is connected to
> the intake manifold with about a 3" rubber coupling. A K&N filter is
> directly attached to the intake side of the AeroCarb. I could maybe
> try the 'cross' divider inserted into the short rubber coupler
length...
>> There's a guy on another list trying to fix a radio and he's
>> done
> just about
>> everything you could think of, finding something that has some
> effect at all is the
>> next step, won't fix it but might lead on to something else that
> might
>> The throttle thing, is there anything to the way it works that
>> can
> be
>> improved/inspected/changed/turned around.....dickered with?
>>
> Not really. The AeroCarb uses a slide for throttle control, I can't
> think of anything to dicker with :-)
>> Good luck, CJ
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> ------------------
>> *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
>> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>
>> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
>> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>] *On
>> Behalf
> Of
>> *japhillipsga@aol.com<mailto:japhillipsga@aol.com>
>> *Sent:* 18 June 2011 07:24
>> *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
>> *Subject:* JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
>>
>> J, I pretty much keep off these things, but you seem like a guy
>> in
> need. I have a
>> 3300 in my XL-B. While early into phase 1 the engine would get
> rough, loose power
>> and scare hell out of me. And I tore my hair out for hours. Then
>> I
> learned that the
>> Bing Carb is a delicate and sensitive gadget. First, I replaced
> the SCAT tubing with
>> a 90 degree Gates rubber radiator hose from O'Rieliey's Auto
>> parts
> as the coupling
>> between the carb and the air filter box. What was occurring was
> that intake air from
>> the filter was entering the carb inlet unevenly, all on one side
> and not smoothly
>> and this messed with the delicate rubber venture inside the carb
> that controls
>> mixture. Then I made a divider wall of aluminum inside the hose
> that spands from
>> just prior to the inlet all the way around the turn of the hose
> bend(probably 6
>> inches). Is made out on .25 6061T6 and stays put because of the
> hose bend.This
>> # allowed the air stream to be even and smooth as it travels
>> to the carb and enters the rear of the Bing. First flight
> afterward was great.
>> Hundreds of flights since, full smooth and dependable power.
>> Only
> other thing might
>> be plugs. Change them and run only the temp Jab says to run. Not
> hotter or colder.
>> Best of luck, Bill of Georgia
>>
> See induction system description above...
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Martin Hone<aerobiz1@gmail.com<mailto:aerobiz1@gmail.com>>
>> To: jabiruengine-list<jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
>> <mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>>
>> Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 5:36 pm
>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough running
> puzzle.
>> J, it must be frustrating not having any of the engine gurus
>> offer
> years of
>> experience in solving this problem. Maybe they are too busy with
> all the other
>> problems.... ;-)
>>
>> Anyway, have you tried tilting the carb in its mount to see if
>> the
> problem moves to
>> another cylinder. it is a know problem that the Jab inlet
>> system
> is diabolical.
>> Martin
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:36 PM, j. davis<jd@lawsonimaging.ca
>> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>> wrote:
>>
>> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis"
> <jd@lawsonimaging.ca
>> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>
>>
>> On 06/16/2011 11:16 PM, ces308 wrote:
>>
>> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by:
> "ces308"<ces308@ldaco.com
>> <mailto:ces308@ldaco.com>>
>>
>> J....
>>
>> Did you ever figure out what the problem was???
>>
>> chris ambrose
>> Kolb M3X/Jabiru A-2200 191.0 hrs
>> N327CS
>>
>>
>> Hi Chris...
>>
>> No, I've only been able to eliminate a bunch of items as
>> *not*
> being the cause:
>> I've been hoping that the two or three guys who monitor this
> list regularly and work
>> on [Jabiru] engines for a living would contribute. Hoping
>> that
> maybe they had
>> seen similar
>> symptoms in one of their hundreds or thousands of engines
> that have passed
>> through their
>> establishments... I see them chiming on other issues all
>> the
> time. Maybe
>> they're stumped speechless :-)
>>
>> The issue: *both* #3 plugs equally sooty, all other plugs
> light tan (see
>> previous attached pic)
>>
>> Here's what I've tried:
>>
>> - leak down test consistently good, both cold and warm
>> - h.t. wires to cyl. #3 swapped for #4's. #3 plugs still
sooty
>> - distributor innards checked (both would have to have same
>> #3
> issue)
>> - all valve springs checked, all lifters checked for soft or
> collapsed
>> - air gap set to 0.010"
>> - new plugs (obviously)
>> - other miscellaneous checks, such as h.t. wire seating,
etc.
>>
>> What I haven't yet tried:
>>
>> - examining the cam. Wouldn't a worn cam lobe result in not
> enough lift and a
>> *lean* mixture
>> on that cylinder?
>> - using a vacuum gauge. Where could I connect it (no Bing,
> remember) ? Do I
>> need to drill and weld in a nipple in the intake manifold?
>>
>> So the question stands. What could cause either:
>>
>> - a single cylinder of six to run so rich as to actually
>> foul
>> *both* plugs
>>
>> or
>>
>> - the two plugs of the single cylinder not to fire
> sufficiently to burn off the
>> charge
>>
>> ...keeping in mind the trouble-shooting items I have already
> eliminated...
>> So far, I've flown about an hour since my pre-flight mag
>> test
> went back to
>> normal, probably
>> as a result of replacing #3 plugs, likely one or both were
> fouled.
>> But my confidence level is low, as I wait for the current #3
> plugs to foul. I
>> just wish I could
>> discover the reason for this behaviour!
>>
>> Thanks to all for the input!
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards, J.
>>
>> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
>> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
>> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>>
>> -----------------------------
>> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
>> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca<http://lawsonimaging.ca>
>> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
>> http://cleco.ca
>>
>>
>> I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour
>> in only ten minutes.
>> --- Steven Wright
>>
>>
>> =====================
==============
>> -
>> ine-List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>> =====================
==============
>> MS -
>> k">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> e -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> =====================
==============
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
> tor?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine
> -L
> ist
>> tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com>
>> bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www
> .m atronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
> c
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> ist"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>
> -----------------------------
> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
> http://cleco.ca
>
>
> If you can't hear me, it's because I'm in parentheses.
> --- Steven Wright
>
>
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
-----------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
http://cleco.ca
Four years ago..............no, it was yesterday.
--- Steven Wright
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
J. and Clive - I had mentioned this in one of my early responses. I found
that removing the airfoil shaped flow divider in the plenum and replacing it
with a simple 1/2 inch round section improved mixture distribution in our
3300. But don't see how the original set up would suddenly change
distribution unless it had become loose. Possible though.
Martin
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 12:55 AM, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca> wrote:
>
> On 06/18/2011 10:34 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
>
>> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "James, Clive R"<
>> clive.james@uk.bp.com>
>>
>> J, I can't remember, have you changed the flow divider to a round tube?
>>
>
> Hi Clive... no, made no such change to date, no reason to do so (to date
> :-) )
> Not being overly quick to make engine mods, I'm not actually aware of this
> flow divider mod...
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-**server@matronics.com<owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>
>> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-**list-server@matronics.com<owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>]
>> On Behalf Of j.
>> davis
>> Sent: 18 June 2011 14:47
>> To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.**com <jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
>>
>> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis"
>> --> <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
>>
>> On 06/18/2011 04:10 AM, Martin Hone wrote:
>>
>>> J,
>>>
>>> Both the experts and non-experts have suggested rotating the carb in
>>> the rubber coupling to see what effect it may have. If it has any
>>> effect then it may well give you an idea as to what the problem is.
>>>
>> To me, it is not the ignition.
>>
>>> Let us know what you find....
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> Thanks for all the responses. I will try rotating the AeroCarb slightly
>> to see if I can lean out the 1-3-5 side and enrichen the 2-4-6 side
>> (which *does* run hotter). I can see this working for a bank, but just
>> one cylinder in a bank? But it's easy enough to try...
>>
>> I'm feeling slightly better about this issue for a couple of reasons.
>> Firstly, I've now put a couple of hours of flying, both around the patch
>> and some longer excursions. The rough running has not returned, and my
>> pre-flight mag checks are still good. Secondly, I made a 30 minute
>> flight yesterday to the local 100LL bar. I'd been using Shell VeePower
>> (93 octane, no ethanol) so far this season (I normally stick with
>> 100LL).
>>
>> On the way there, #3 cyl's EGTs were some 20-30 degrees C (68-86 F) less
>> than the average of the others, consistent with a richer mixture. But
>> after filling with 100LL, the flight home showed #3's EGTs right there
>> with nall the others. I haven't yet checked the plugs of #3, but I'm
>> optimistic that they will be in line with the other plugs when I do. Not
>> sure *why* the 100LL would have selectively affected #3, however. I'll
>> keep you posted.
>>
>> And I do think I will make the change to Iridium plugs eventually
>>
>> Thanks again. Some more in-line comments follow:
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 5:50 PM, James, Clive R<clive.james@uk.bp.com
>>> <mailto:clive.james@uk.bp.com>**> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm on here all the while, sorry.
>>>
>>> Yes, Clive, I realize you've been here all the while. Thanks!
>>
>> I'm with the shy guy, given all you have tried and found the only
>>>
>> thing it can be is
>>
>>> the way the fuel is hitting the induction pipes. I did mention the
>>>
>> carby turning
>>
>>> trick at the beginning, not as a solution but something to try to
>>>
>> see if you can
>>
>>> make any change that was before I knew the set up. Is there
>>>
>> anything at all you can
>>
>>> play about with to see if this is the issue? The cross in the
>>>
>> inlet pipe isn't an
>>
>>> option? I know it was suggested some time back as well.
>>>
>>> True. My induction side is pretty simple: an AeroCarb is connected to
>> the intake manifold with about a 3" rubber coupling. A K&N filter is
>> directly attached to the intake side of the AeroCarb. I could maybe try
>> the 'cross' divider inserted into the short rubber coupler length...
>>
>>> There's a guy on another list trying to fix a radio and he's done
>>>
>> just about
>>
>>> everything you could think of, finding something that has some
>>>
>> effect at all is the
>>
>>> next step, won't fix it but might lead on to something else that
>>>
>> might
>>
>>> The throttle thing, is there anything to the way it works that can
>>>
>> be
>>
>>> improved/inspected/changed/**turned around.....dickered with?
>>>
>>> Not really. The AeroCarb uses a slide for throttle control, I can't
>> think of anything to dicker with :-)
>>
>>> Good luck, CJ
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>> ------------
>> ------------------
>>
>>> *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-**server@matronics.com<owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>
>>> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-**list-server@matronics.com<owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>
>>> >
>>> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-**list-server@matronics.com<owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>
>>> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-**list-server@matronics.com<owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>>]
>>> *On Behalf
>>>
>> Of
>>
>>> *japhillipsga@aol.com<mailto:j**aphillipsga@aol.com<japhillipsga@aol.com>
>>> >
>>> *Sent:* 18 June 2011 07:24
>>> *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.**com<jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
>>>
>> <mailto:jabiruengine-list@**matronics.com<jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
>> >
>>
>>> *Subject:* JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
>>>
>>> J, I pretty much keep off these things, but you seem like a guy in
>>>
>> need. I have a
>>
>>> 3300 in my XL-B. While early into phase 1 the engine would get
>>>
>> rough, loose power
>>
>>> and scare hell out of me. And I tore my hair out for hours. Then I
>>>
>> learned that the
>>
>>> Bing Carb is a delicate and sensitive gadget. First, I replaced
>>>
>> the SCAT tubing with
>>
>>> a 90 degree Gates rubber radiator hose from O'Rieliey's Auto parts
>>>
>> as the coupling
>>
>>> between the carb and the air filter box. What was occurring was
>>>
>> that intake air from
>>
>>> the filter was entering the carb inlet unevenly, all on one side
>>>
>> and not smoothly
>>
>>> and this messed with the delicate rubber venture inside the carb
>>>
>> that controls
>>
>>> mixture. Then I made a divider wall of aluminum inside the hose
>>>
>> that spands from
>>
>>> just prior to the inlet all the way around the turn of the hose
>>>
>> bend(probably 6
>>
>>> inches). Is made out on .25 6061T6 and stays put because of the
>>>
>> hose bend.This
>>
>>> # allowed the air stream to be even and smooth as it travels
>>> to the carb and enters the rear of the Bing. First flight
>>>
>> afterward was great.
>>
>>> Hundreds of flights since, full smooth and dependable power. Only
>>>
>> other thing might
>>
>>> be plugs. Change them and run only the temp Jab says to run. Not
>>>
>> hotter or colder.
>>
>>> Best of luck, Bill of Georgia
>>>
>>> See induction system description above...
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Martin Hone<aerobiz1@gmail.com<**mailto:aerobiz1@gmail.com>>
>>> To: jabiruengine-list<jabiruengine**-list@matronics.com<jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
>>> <mailto:jabiruengine-list@**matronics.com<jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
>>> >>
>>> Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 5:36 pm
>>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough running
>>>
>> puzzle.
>>
>>> J, it must be frustrating not having any of the engine gurus offer
>>>
>> years of
>>
>>> experience in solving this problem. Maybe they are too busy with
>>>
>> all the other
>>
>>> problems.... ;-)
>>>
>>> Anyway, have you tried tilting the carb in its mount to see if the
>>>
>> problem moves to
>>
>>> another cylinder. it is a know problem that the Jab inlet system
>>>
>> is diabolical.
>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:36 PM, j. davis<jd@lawsonimaging.ca
>>> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>> wrote:
>>>
>>> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis"
>>>
>> <jd@lawsonimaging.ca
>>
>>> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>
>>>
>>> On 06/16/2011 11:16 PM, ces308 wrote:
>>>
>>> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by:
>>>
>> "ces308"<ces308@ldaco.com
>>
>>> <mailto:ces308@ldaco.com>>
>>>
>>> J....
>>>
>>> Did you ever figure out what the problem was???
>>>
>>> chris ambrose
>>> Kolb M3X/Jabiru A-2200 191.0 hrs
>>> N327CS
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Chris...
>>>
>>> No, I've only been able to eliminate a bunch of items as *not*
>>>
>> being the cause:
>>
>>> I've been hoping that the two or three guys who monitor this
>>>
>> list regularly and work
>>
>>> on [Jabiru] engines for a living would contribute. Hoping that
>>>
>> maybe they had
>>
>>> seen similar
>>> symptoms in one of their hundreds or thousands of engines
>>>
>> that have passed
>>
>>> through their
>>> establishments... I see them chiming on other issues all the
>>>
>> time. Maybe
>>
>>> they're stumped speechless :-)
>>>
>>> The issue: *both* #3 plugs equally sooty, all other plugs
>>>
>> light tan (see
>>
>>> previous attached pic)
>>>
>>> Here's what I've tried:
>>>
>>> - leak down test consistently good, both cold and warm
>>> - h.t. wires to cyl. #3 swapped for #4's. #3 plugs still sooty
>>> - distributor innards checked (both would have to have same #3
>>>
>> issue)
>>
>>> - all valve springs checked, all lifters checked for soft or
>>>
>> collapsed
>>
>>> - air gap set to 0.010"
>>> - new plugs (obviously)
>>> - other miscellaneous checks, such as h.t. wire seating, etc.
>>>
>>> What I haven't yet tried:
>>>
>>> - examining the cam. Wouldn't a worn cam lobe result in not
>>>
>> enough lift and a
>>
>>> *lean* mixture
>>> on that cylinder?
>>> - using a vacuum gauge. Where could I connect it (no Bing,
>>>
>> remember) ? Do I
>>
>>> need to drill and weld in a nipple in the intake manifold?
>>>
>>> So the question stands. What could cause either:
>>>
>>> - a single cylinder of six to run so rich as to actually foul
>>> *both* plugs
>>>
>>> or
>>>
>>> - the two plugs of the single cylinder not to fire
>>>
>> sufficiently to burn off the
>>
>>> charge
>>>
>>> ...keeping in mind the trouble-shooting items I have already
>>>
>> eliminated...
>>
>>> So far, I've flown about an hour since my pre-flight mag test
>>>
>> went back to
>>
>>> normal, probably
>>> as a result of replacing #3 plugs, likely one or both were
>>>
>> fouled.
>>
>>> But my confidence level is low, as I wait for the current #3
>>>
>> plugs to foul. I
>>
>>> just wish I could
>>> discover the reason for this behaviour!
>>>
>>> Thanks to all for the input!
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/**viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Regards, J.
>>>
>>> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
>>> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
>>> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>>>
>>> -----------------------------
>>> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
>>> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca<http://**lawsonimaging.ca<http://lawsonimaging.ca>
>>> >
>>> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
>>> http://cleco.ca
>>>
>>>
>>> I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour
>>> in only ten minutes.
>>> --- Steven Wright
>>>
>>>
>>> ==============================**=====
>>> -
>>> ine-List"
>>>
>> target="_blank">http://www.**matronics.com/Navigator?**JabiruEngine-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List>
>>
>>> ==============================**=====
>>> MS -
>>> k">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> e -
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> t="_blank">http://www.**matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>>> ==============================**=====
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> tor?JabiruEngine-List">http://**www.matronics.com/Navigator?**
>> JabiruEngine-L <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-L>
>> ist
>>
>>> tp://forums.matronics.com<http**://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com>
>>> >
>>> bution">http://www.matronics.**com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> href="http://www.matronics.**com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-**List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List>
>> ">http://www.m
>> atronics.com/Navigator?**JabiruEngine-List<http://atronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List>
>>
>>> href="http://forums.matronics.**com <http://forums.matronics.com>">
>>> http://forums.matronics.**com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>>
>>> href="http://www.matronics.**com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>> ">http://www.**matronics.com/c <http://www.matronics.com/c>
>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> ist"
>>>
>> target="_blank">http://www.**matronics.com/Navigator?**JabiruEngine-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List>
>>
>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.**com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards, J.
>>
>> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
>> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
>> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>>
>> -----------------------------
>> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
>> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
>> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
>> http://cleco.ca
>>
>>
>> If you can't hear me, it's because I'm in parentheses.
>> --- Steven Wright
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>
> -----------------------------
> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
> http://cleco.ca
>
>
> Four years ago..............no, it was yesterday.
> --- Steven Wright
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
It's the unexplained change that makes J's problem so difficult when you
bear in mind the extensive testing and inspection that has eliminated
everything it could be.
I'm currently running blind with my 3300 relying on good cooling and
good plug color, the EGT' sensors aren't working. Not done that much
flying as yet but using about 19 litres at 2700.
I think the change in the flow divider is a no brainer as is the 'cross'
in the inlet for a Bing, next jobs on my list after I've found out why
two cylinders have poor compression and what's going on with the oil
pressure. I have a healthy gallery pressure now but I want to
investigate the pulsing a little more as I never could explain the
strange oil pressure readings I got in the early days.
Given the variability of the EGT temps and everyone having issues I need
to get some monitoring added to my jobs to do list.
I've two steam gauges on but they have never worked.
Different subject
How early do folk recommend changing from straight oil nowadays? Or is
that an old wives tail? Jab's in our hangar either used oil or didn't
straight out the box, never changed so you could tell.
I'd like to try a multigrade.
Regards, Clive (UK)
Jab SP 2200, Esqual 3300
________________________________
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Martin Hone
Sent: 18 June 2011 21:47
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
J. and Clive - I had mentioned this in one of my early responses. I
found that removing the airfoil shaped flow divider in the plenum and
replacing it with a simple 1/2 inch round section improved mixture
distribution in our 3300. But don't see how the original set up would
suddenly change distribution unless it had become loose. Possible
though.
Martin
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 12:55 AM, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca> wrote:
<jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
On 06/18/2011 10:34 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "James, Clive
R"<clive.james@uk.bp.com>
J, I can't remember, have you changed the flow divider
to a round tube?
Hi Clive... no, made no such change to date, no reason to do so
(to date :-) )
Not being overly quick to make engine mods, I'm not actually
aware of this flow divider mod...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of j.
davis
Sent: 18 June 2011 14:47
To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
<mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to
Fix
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis"
--> <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
On 06/18/2011 04:10 AM, Martin Hone wrote:
J,
Both the experts and non-experts have suggested
rotating the carb in
the rubber coupling to see what effect it may
have. If it has any
effect then it may well give you an idea as to
what the problem is.
To me, it is not the ignition.
Let us know what you find....
Martin
Thanks for all the responses. I will try rotating the
AeroCarb slightly
to see if I can lean out the 1-3-5 side and enrichen the
2-4-6 side
(which *does* run hotter). I can see this working for a
bank, but just
one cylinder in a bank? But it's easy enough to try...
I'm feeling slightly better about this issue for a
couple of reasons.
Firstly, I've now put a couple of hours of flying, both
around the patch
and some longer excursions. The rough running has not
returned, and my
pre-flight mag checks are still good. Secondly, I made a
30 minute
flight yesterday to the local 100LL bar. I'd been using
Shell VeePower
(93 octane, no ethanol) so far this season (I normally
stick with
100LL).
On the way there, #3 cyl's EGTs were some 20-30 degrees
C (68-86 F) less
than the average of the others, consistent with a richer
mixture. But
after filling with 100LL, the flight home showed #3's
EGTs right there
with nall the others. I haven't yet checked the plugs of
#3, but I'm
optimistic that they will be in line with the other
plugs when I do. Not
sure *why* the 100LL would have selectively affected #3,
however. I'll
keep you posted.
And I do think I will make the change to Iridium plugs
eventually
Thanks again. Some more in-line comments follow:
On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 5:50 PM, James, Clive
R<clive.james@uk.bp.com
<mailto:clive.james@uk.bp.com>> wrote:
I'm on here all the while, sorry.
Yes, Clive, I realize you've been here all the while.
Thanks!
I'm with the shy guy, given all you have
tried and found the only
thing it can be is
the way the fuel is hitting the induction
pipes. I did mention the
carby turning
trick at the beginning, not as a solution
but something to try to
see if you can
make any change that was before I knew the
set up. Is there
anything at all you can
play about with to see if this is the issue?
The cross in the
inlet pipe isn't an
option? I know it was suggested some time
back as well.
True. My induction side is pretty simple: an AeroCarb
is connected to
the intake manifold with about a 3" rubber coupling. A
K&N filter is
directly attached to the intake side of the AeroCarb. I
could maybe try
the 'cross' divider inserted into the short rubber
coupler length...
There's a guy on another list trying to fix
a radio and he's done
just about
everything you could think of, finding
something that has some
effect at all is the
next step, won't fix it but might lead on to
something else that
might
The throttle thing, is there anything to the
way it works that can
be
improved/inspected/changed/turned
around.....dickered with?
Not really. The AeroCarb uses a slide for throttle
control, I can't
think of anything to dicker with :-)
Good luck, CJ
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
*From:*
owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>
<mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com> >
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>
<mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com> >] *On Behalf
Of
*japhillipsga@aol.com<mailto:japhillipsga@aol.com
<mailto:japhillipsga@aol.com> >
*Sent:* 18 June 2011 07:24
*To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
<mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
<mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
<mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com> >
*Subject:* JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs
Rough, how to Fix
J, I pretty much keep off these things, but
you seem like a guy in
need. I have a
3300 in my XL-B. While early into phase 1
the engine would get
rough, loose power
and scare hell out of me. And I tore my hair
out for hours. Then I
learned that the
Bing Carb is a delicate and sensitive
gadget. First, I replaced
the SCAT tubing with
a 90 degree Gates rubber radiator hose from
O'Rieliey's Auto parts
as the coupling
between the carb and the air filter box.
What was occurring was
that intake air from
the filter was entering the carb inlet
unevenly, all on one side
and not smoothly
and this messed with the delicate rubber
venture inside the carb
that controls
mixture. Then I made a divider wall of
aluminum inside the hose
that spands from
just prior to the inlet all the way around
the turn of the hose
bend(probably 6
inches). Is made out on .25 6061T6 and stays
put because of the
hose bend.This
# allowed the air stream to be even and smooth
as it travels
to the carb and enters the rear of the Bing.
First flight
afterward was great.
Hundreds of flights since, full smooth and
dependable power. Only
other thing might
be plugs. Change them and run only the temp
Jab says to run. Not
hotter or colder.
Best of luck, Bill of Georgia
See induction system description above...
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin
Hone<aerobiz1@gmail.com<mailto:aerobiz1@gmail.com>>
To:
jabiruengine-list<jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
<mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
<mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
<mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com> >>
Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 5:36 pm
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help!
3300 rough running
puzzle.
J, it must be frustrating not having any of
the engine gurus offer
years of
experience in solving this problem. Maybe
they are too busy with
all the other
problems.... ;-)
Anyway, have you tried tilting the carb in
its mount to see if the
problem moves to
another cylinder. it is a know problem that
the Jab inlet system
is diabolical.
Martin
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:36 PM, j.
davis<jd@lawsonimaging.ca
<mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>> wrote:
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted
by: "j. davis"
<jd@lawsonimaging.ca
<mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>
On 06/16/2011 11:16 PM, ces308 wrote:
--> JabiruEngine-List message
posted by:
"ces308"<ces308@ldaco.com
<mailto:ces308@ldaco.com>>
J....
Did you ever figure out what the
problem was???
chris ambrose
Kolb M3X/Jabiru A-2200 191.0 hrs
N327CS
Hi Chris...
No, I've only been able to eliminate a
bunch of items as *not*
being the cause:
I've been hoping that the two or three
guys who monitor this
list regularly and work
on [Jabiru] engines for a living would
contribute. Hoping that
maybe they had
seen similar
symptoms in one of their hundreds or
thousands of engines
that have passed
through their
establishments... I see them chiming on
other issues all the
time. Maybe
they're stumped speechless :-)
The issue: *both* #3 plugs equally
sooty, all other plugs
light tan (see
previous attached pic)
Here's what I've tried:
- leak down test consistently good, both
cold and warm
- h.t. wires to cyl. #3 swapped for
#4's. #3 plugs still sooty
- distributor innards checked (both
would have to have same #3
issue)
- all valve springs checked, all lifters
checked for soft or
collapsed
- air gap set to 0.010"
- new plugs (obviously)
- other miscellaneous checks, such as
h.t. wire seating, etc.
What I haven't yet tried:
- examining the cam. Wouldn't a worn cam
lobe result in not
enough lift and a
*lean* mixture
on that cylinder?
- using a vacuum gauge. Where could I
connect it (no Bing,
remember) ? Do I
need to drill and weld in a nipple in
the intake manifold?
So the question stands. What could cause
either:
- a single cylinder of six to run so
rich as to actually foul
*both* plugs
or
- the two plugs of the single cylinder
not to fire
sufficiently to burn off the
charge
...keeping in mind the trouble-shooting
items I have already
eliminated...
So far, I've flown about an hour since
my pre-flight mag test
went back to
normal, probably
as a result of replacing #3 plugs,
likely one or both were
fouled.
But my confidence level is low, as I
wait for the current #3
plugs to foul. I
just wish I could
discover the reason for this behaviour!
Thanks to all for the input!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249>
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince
P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder,
CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at
http://cleco.ca
-----------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
email: jd at
lawsonimaging.ca<http://lawsonimaging.ca <http://lawsonimaging.ca> >
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
http://cleco.ca
I took a course in speed waiting. Now I
can wait an hour
in only ten minutes.
---
Steven Wright
-
ine-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List>
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
==========
e -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
*
tor?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-L
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-L>
ist
tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com
<http://forums.matronics.com> >
bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
*
*
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List> ">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
<http://atronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List>
href="http://forums.matronics.com
<http://forums.matronics.com> ">http://forums.matronics.com
<http://forums.matronics.com>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution> ">http://www.matronics.com/c
<http://www.matronics.com/c>
*
*
ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List>
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
*
*
*
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
-----------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
http://cleco.ca
If you can't hear me, it's because I'm in parentheses.
--- Steven Wright
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
-----------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
http://cleco.ca
Four years ago..............no, it was yesterday.
--- Steven Wright
-
ine-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
e -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
On 06/18/2011 04:47 PM, Martin Hone wrote:
> J. and Clive - I had mentioned this in one of my early responses. I found that
> removing the airfoil shaped flow divider in the plenum and replacing it with
a simple
> 1/2 inch round section improved mixture distribution in our 3300. But don't
see how the
> original set up would suddenly change distribution unless it had become loose.
Possible
> though.
Hi Martin...
>> But don't see how the original set up would suddenly change distribution unless
it had
become loose.
My thinking exactly, but I'm extremely tempted to just try it... (or check for
looseness)
Tomorrow, I will remove the cowl to check out my #3 plugs, after a 2 hour round
trip
to the annual Aircraft Spruce fly-in in Brantford, ON earlier today. #3's EGT were
right
in line
with #1 and #5, so I'm guessing that the plugs just might be OK, go figure. Will
stick
with 100ll
regardless. ACS didn't have the NGK Iridium plugs in stock, otherwise I prolly
would have
taken
a deep breath and handed over my MasterCard for the $120 purchase (!!!)
>
> Martin
>
> On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 12:55 AM, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca
> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>> wrote:
>
> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>
>
> On 06/18/2011 10:34 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
>
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "James, Clive R"<clive.james@uk.bp.com
> <mailto:clive.james@uk.bp.com>>
>
> J, I can't remember, have you changed the flow divider to a round tube?
>
>
> Hi Clive... no, made no such change to date, no reason to do so (to date
:-) )
> Not being overly quick to make engine mods, I'm not actually aware of this
flow
> divider mod...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of j.
> davis
> Sent: 18 June 2011 14:47
> To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com <mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
>
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis"
> --> <jd@lawsonimaging.ca <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>
>
> On 06/18/2011 04:10 AM, Martin Hone wrote:
>
> J,
>
> Both the experts and non-experts have suggested rotating the carb
in
> the rubber coupling to see what effect it may have. If it has any
> effect then it may well give you an idea as to what the problem is.
>
> To me, it is not the ignition.
>
> Let us know what you find....
>
> Martin
>
> Thanks for all the responses. I will try rotating the AeroCarb slightly
> to see if I can lean out the 1-3-5 side and enrichen the 2-4-6 side
> (which *does* run hotter). I can see this working for a bank, but just
> one cylinder in a bank? But it's easy enough to try...
>
> I'm feeling slightly better about this issue for a couple of reasons.
> Firstly, I've now put a couple of hours of flying, both around the patch
> and some longer excursions. The rough running has not returned, and my
> pre-flight mag checks are still good. Secondly, I made a 30 minute
> flight yesterday to the local 100LL bar. I'd been using Shell VeePower
> (93 octane, no ethanol) so far this season (I normally stick with
> 100LL).
>
> On the way there, #3 cyl's EGTs were some 20-30 degrees C (68-86 F) less
> than the average of the others, consistent with a richer mixture. But
> after filling with 100LL, the flight home showed #3's EGTs right there
> with nall the others. I haven't yet checked the plugs of #3, but I'm
> optimistic that they will be in line with the other plugs when I do.
Not
> sure *why* the 100LL would have selectively affected #3, however. I'll
> keep you posted.
>
> And I do think I will make the change to Iridium plugs eventually
>
> Thanks again. Some more in-line comments follow:
>
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 5:50 PM, James, Clive R<clive.james@uk.bp.com
> <mailto:clive.james@uk.bp.com>
> <mailto:clive.james@uk.bp.com <mailto:clive.james@uk.bp.com>>> wrote:
>
> I'm on here all the while, sorry.
>
> Yes, Clive, I realize you've been here all the while. Thanks!
>
> I'm with the shy guy, given all you have tried and found the
only
>
> thing it can be is
>
> the way the fuel is hitting the induction pipes. I did mention
the
>
> carby turning
>
> trick at the beginning, not as a solution but something to try
to
>
> see if you can
>
> make any change that was before I knew the set up. Is there
>
> anything at all you can
>
> play about with to see if this is the issue? The cross in the
>
> inlet pipe isn't an
>
> option? I know it was suggested some time back as well.
>
> True. My induction side is pretty simple: an AeroCarb is connected to
> the intake manifold with about a 3" rubber coupling. A K&N filter is
> directly attached to the intake side of the AeroCarb. I could maybe try
> the 'cross' divider inserted into the short rubber coupler length...
>
> There's a guy on another list trying to fix a radio and he's
done
>
> just about
>
> everything you could think of, finding something that has some
>
> effect at all is the
>
> next step, won't fix it but might lead on to something else that
>
> might
>
> The throttle thing, is there anything to the way it works that
can
>
> be
>
> improved/inspected/changed/turned around.....dickered with?
>
> Not really. The AeroCarb uses a slide for throttle control, I can't
> think of anything to dicker with :-)
>
> Good luck, CJ
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------
>
> *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>>
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>>] *On Behalf
>
> Of
>
> *japhillipsga@aol.com
> <mailto:japhillipsga@aol.com><mailto:japhillipsga@aol.com
> <mailto:japhillipsga@aol.com>>
> *Sent:* 18 June 2011 07:24
> *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
>
> <mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com <mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>>
>
> *Subject:* JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
>
> J, I pretty much keep off these things, but you seem like a guy
in
>
> need. I have a
>
> 3300 in my XL-B. While early into phase 1 the engine would get
>
> rough, loose power
>
> and scare hell out of me. And I tore my hair out for hours. Then
I
>
> learned that the
>
> Bing Carb is a delicate and sensitive gadget. First, I replaced
>
> the SCAT tubing with
>
> a 90 degree Gates rubber radiator hose from O'Rieliey's Auto
parts
>
> as the coupling
>
> between the carb and the air filter box. What was occurring was
>
> that intake air from
>
> the filter was entering the carb inlet unevenly, all on one side
>
> and not smoothly
>
> and this messed with the delicate rubber venture inside the carb
>
> that controls
>
> mixture. Then I made a divider wall of aluminum inside the hose
>
> that spands from
>
> just prior to the inlet all the way around the turn of the hose
>
> bend(probably 6
>
> inches). Is made out on .25 6061T6 and stays put because of the
>
> hose bend.This
>
> # allowed the air stream to be even and smooth as it travels
> to the carb and enters the rear of the Bing. First flight
>
> afterward was great.
>
> Hundreds of flights since, full smooth and dependable power.
Only
>
> other thing might
>
> be plugs. Change them and run only the temp Jab says to run.
Not
>
> hotter or colder.
>
> Best of luck, Bill of Georgia
>
> See induction system description above...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Hone<aerobiz1@gmail.com
> <mailto:aerobiz1@gmail.com><mailto:aerobiz1@gmail.com
> <mailto:aerobiz1@gmail.com>>>
> To: jabiruengine-list<jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
> <mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>>>
> Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 5:36 pm
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough running
>
> puzzle.
>
> J, it must be frustrating not having any of the engine gurus
offer
>
> years of
>
> experience in solving this problem. Maybe they are too busy with
>
> all the other
>
> problems.... ;-)
>
> Anyway, have you tried tilting the carb in its mount to see if
the
>
> problem moves to
>
> another cylinder. it is a know problem that the Jab inlet system
>
> is diabolical.
>
> Martin
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:36 PM, j. davis<jd@lawsonimaging.ca
> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>> wrote:
>
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis"
>
> <jd@lawsonimaging.ca <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
>
> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>>
>
> On 06/16/2011 11:16 PM, ces308 wrote:
>
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by:
>
> "ces308"<ces308@ldaco.com <mailto:ces308@ldaco.com>
>
> <mailto:ces308@ldaco.com <mailto:ces308@ldaco.com>>>
>
> J....
>
> Did you ever figure out what the problem was???
>
> chris ambrose
> Kolb M3X/Jabiru A-2200 191.0 hrs
> N327CS
>
>
> Hi Chris...
>
> No, I've only been able to eliminate a bunch of items as
*not*
>
> being the cause:
>
> I've been hoping that the two or three guys who monitor this
>
> list regularly and work
>
> on [Jabiru] engines for a living would contribute. Hoping
that
>
> maybe they had
>
> seen similar
> symptoms in one of their hundreds or thousands of engines
>
> that have passed
>
> through their
> establishments... I see them chiming on other issues all
the
>
> time. Maybe
>
> they're stumped speechless :-)
>
> The issue: *both* #3 plugs equally sooty, all other plugs
>
> light tan (see
>
> previous attached pic)
>
> Here's what I've tried:
>
> - leak down test consistently good, both cold and warm
> - h.t. wires to cyl. #3 swapped for #4's. #3 plugs still
sooty
> - distributor innards checked (both would have to have same
#3
>
> issue)
>
> - all valve springs checked, all lifters checked for soft
or
>
> collapsed
>
> - air gap set to 0.010"
> - new plugs (obviously)
> - other miscellaneous checks, such as h.t. wire seating,
etc.
>
> What I haven't yet tried:
>
> - examining the cam. Wouldn't a worn cam lobe result in not
>
> enough lift and a
>
> *lean* mixture
> on that cylinder?
> - using a vacuum gauge. Where could I connect it (no Bing,
>
> remember) ? Do I
>
> need to drill and weld in a nipple in the intake manifold?
>
> So the question stands. What could cause either:
>
> - a single cylinder of six to run so rich as to actually
foul
> *both* plugs
>
> or
>
> - the two plugs of the single cylinder not to fire
>
> sufficiently to burn off the
>
> charge
>
> ...keeping in mind the trouble-shooting items I have already
>
> eliminated...
>
> So far, I've flown about an hour since my pre-flight mag
test
>
> went back to
>
> normal, probably
> as a result of replacing #3 plugs, likely one or both were
>
> fouled.
>
> But my confidence level is low, as I wait for the current
#3
>
> plugs to foul. I
>
> just wish I could
> discover the reason for this behaviour!
>
> Thanks to all for the input!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249
>
>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>
> -----------------------------
> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
> <http://lawsonimaging.ca><http://lawsonimaging.ca>
> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
> http://cleco.ca
>
>
> I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour
> in only ten minutes.
> --- Steven Wright
>
>
> ===================================
> -
> ine-List"
>
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>
> ===================================
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
> *
>
>
> tor?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-L
> ist
>
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> <http://forums.matronics.com><http://forums.matronics.com>
> bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.m
> atronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> <http://atronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List>
>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
> *
>
> *
>
> ist"
>
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>
> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>
> -----------------------------
> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca <http://lawsonimaging.ca>
> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
> http://cleco.ca
>
>
> If you can't hear me, it's because I'm in parentheses.
> --- Steven Wright
>
>
> --
> Regards, J.
>
> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>
> -----------------------------
> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca <http://lawsonimaging.ca>
> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
> http://cleco.ca
>
>
> Four years ago..............no, it was yesterday.
> --- Steven Wright
>
>
> ===================================
> -
> ine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> ===================================
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
-----------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
http://cleco.ca
When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked
if I had any firearms with me. I said, "Well, what do
you need?"
--- Steven Wright
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
On 06/18/2011 10:58 AM, dons701 wrote:
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "dons701"<burdon1@comcast.net>
>
> J, Glad to hear you have seen some flight time and may be on your way out of
your problem. But, as per Jabiru 3300 engine manual; "Leaded and Unleaded Automotive
Gasoline above 95 Octane RON." It is very possible that running 93 octane
may have contributed to your problem, showing up on #3 first. I don't remember
if you had the same issues while running 100LL before.
No, at least not that I am aware of...
> How long have you been running the 93 octane fuel??
Just recently because I didn't have enough fuel to fly down to my local fuel bar.
So I put
20 liters of Shell in. Not the first time
I've flown with mogas, but as a rule I use 100ll.
> IHO, stay away from the 93 octane regardless of whether it was your problem
or not...Don B
You may be right, but there are dozens of 3300 flyers who would disagree to the
point of
*recommending* it...
> --------
> Zenith 701 #76120
> Jabiru 2200A #2456 95 hours
> Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343392#343392
>
>
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
-----------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
http://cleco.ca
I replaced the headlights in my car with strobe lights.
Now it looks like I'm the only one moving.
--- Steven Wright
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
Clive, it is generally considered that the running in process is sufficient
when oil consumption stabilises and temps come down. Certainly somewhere
between 25 and 50 hrs is plenty on straight 50 mineral oil, then change to
Ashless Dispersant (Aeroshell 100 Plus) or multi-grade (Aeroshell 15-50
semi-synthetic for example)
Martin
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 9:20 AM, James, Clive R <clive.james@uk.bp.com>wrote:
> **
> It's the unexplained change that makes J's problem so difficult when you
> bear in mind the extensive testing and inspection that has eliminated
> everything it could be.
>
> I'm currently running blind with my 3300 relying on good cooling and good
> plug color, the EGT' sensors aren't working. Not done that much flying as
> yet but using about 19 litres at 2700.
> I think the change in the flow divider is a no brainer as is the 'cross' in
> the inlet for a Bing, next jobs on my list after I've found out why two
> cylinders have poor compression and what's going on with the oil pressure. I
> have a healthy gallery pressure now but I want to investigate the pulsing a
> little more as I never could explain the strange oil pressure readings I got
> in the early days.
> Given the variability of the EGT temps and everyone having issues I need to
> get some monitoring added to my jobs to do list.
> I've two steam gauges on but they have never worked.
>
> Different subject
> How early do folk recommend changing from straight oil nowadays? Or is that
> an old wives tail? Jab's in our hangar either used oil or didn't straight
> out the box, never changed so you could tell.
> I'd like to try a multigrade.
>
> Regards, Clive (UK)
> Jab SP 2200, Esqual 3300
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Martin Hone
> *Sent:* 18 June 2011 21:47
> *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
>
> J. and Clive - I had mentioned this in one of my early responses. I found
> that removing the airfoil shaped flow divider in the plenum and replacing it
> with a simple 1/2 inch round section improved mixture distribution in our
> 3300. But don't see how the original set up would suddenly change
> distribution unless it had become loose. Possible though.
>
> Martin
>
> On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 12:55 AM, j. davis <jd@lawsonimaging.ca> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 06/18/2011 10:34 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
>>
>>> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "James, Clive R"<
>>> clive.james@uk.bp.com>
>>>
>>> J, I can't remember, have you changed the flow divider to a round tube?
>>>
>>
>> Hi Clive... no, made no such change to date, no reason to do so (to date
>> :-) )
>> Not being overly quick to make engine mods, I'm not actually aware of this
>> flow divider mod...
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-**server@matronics.com<owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>
>>> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-**list-server@matronics.com<owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>]
>>> On Behalf Of j.
>>> davis
>>> Sent: 18 June 2011 14:47
>>> To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.**com <jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
>>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
>>>
>>> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis"
>>> --> <jd@lawsonimaging.ca>
>>>
>>> On 06/18/2011 04:10 AM, Martin Hone wrote:
>>>
>>>> J,
>>>>
>>>> Both the experts and non-experts have suggested rotating the carb in
>>>> the rubber coupling to see what effect it may have. If it has any
>>>> effect then it may well give you an idea as to what the problem is.
>>>>
>>> To me, it is not the ignition.
>>>
>>>> Let us know what you find....
>>>>
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for all the responses. I will try rotating the AeroCarb slightly
>>> to see if I can lean out the 1-3-5 side and enrichen the 2-4-6 side
>>> (which *does* run hotter). I can see this working for a bank, but just
>>> one cylinder in a bank? But it's easy enough to try...
>>>
>>> I'm feeling slightly better about this issue for a couple of reasons.
>>> Firstly, I've now put a couple of hours of flying, both around the patch
>>> and some longer excursions. The rough running has not returned, and my
>>> pre-flight mag checks are still good. Secondly, I made a 30 minute
>>> flight yesterday to the local 100LL bar. I'd been using Shell VeePower
>>> (93 octane, no ethanol) so far this season (I normally stick with
>>> 100LL).
>>>
>>> On the way there, #3 cyl's EGTs were some 20-30 degrees C (68-86 F) less
>>> than the average of the others, consistent with a richer mixture. But
>>> after filling with 100LL, the flight home showed #3's EGTs right there
>>> with nall the others. I haven't yet checked the plugs of #3, but I'm
>>> optimistic that they will be in line with the other plugs when I do. Not
>>> sure *why* the 100LL would have selectively affected #3, however. I'll
>>> keep you posted.
>>>
>>> And I do think I will make the change to Iridium plugs eventually
>>>
>>> Thanks again. Some more in-line comments follow:
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 5:50 PM, James, Clive R<clive.james@uk.bp.com
>>>> <mailto:clive.james@uk.bp.com>**> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm on here all the while, sorry.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, Clive, I realize you've been here all the while. Thanks!
>>>
>>> I'm with the shy guy, given all you have tried and found the only
>>>>
>>> thing it can be is
>>>
>>>> the way the fuel is hitting the induction pipes. I did mention the
>>>>
>>> carby turning
>>>
>>>> trick at the beginning, not as a solution but something to try to
>>>>
>>> see if you can
>>>
>>>> make any change that was before I knew the set up. Is there
>>>>
>>> anything at all you can
>>>
>>>> play about with to see if this is the issue? The cross in the
>>>>
>>> inlet pipe isn't an
>>>
>>>> option? I know it was suggested some time back as well.
>>>>
>>>> True. My induction side is pretty simple: an AeroCarb is connected to
>>> the intake manifold with about a 3" rubber coupling. A K&N filter is
>>> directly attached to the intake side of the AeroCarb. I could maybe try
>>> the 'cross' divider inserted into the short rubber coupler length...
>>>
>>>> There's a guy on another list trying to fix a radio and he's done
>>>>
>>> just about
>>>
>>>> everything you could think of, finding something that has some
>>>>
>>> effect at all is the
>>>
>>>> next step, won't fix it but might lead on to something else that
>>>>
>>> might
>>>
>>>> The throttle thing, is there anything to the way it works that can
>>>>
>>> be
>>>
>>>> improved/inspected/changed/**turned around.....dickered with?
>>>>
>>>> Not really. The AeroCarb uses a slide for throttle control, I can't
>>> think of anything to dicker with :-)
>>>
>>>> Good luck, CJ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>>> ------------
>>> ------------------
>>>
>>>> *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-**server@matronics.com<owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>
>>>> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-**list-server@matronics.com<owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>
>>>> >
>>>> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-**list-server@matronics.com<owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>
>>>> <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-**list-server@matronics.com<owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>>]
>>>> *On Behalf
>>>>
>>> Of
>>>
>>>> *japhillipsga@aol.com<mailto:j**aphillipsga@aol.com<japhillipsga@aol.com>
>>>> >
>>>> *Sent:* 18 June 2011 07:24
>>>> *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.**com<jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
>>>>
>>> <mailto:jabiruengine-list@**matronics.com<jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
>>> >
>>>
>>>> *Subject:* JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
>>>>
>>>> J, I pretty much keep off these things, but you seem like a guy in
>>>>
>>> need. I have a
>>>
>>>> 3300 in my XL-B. While early into phase 1 the engine would get
>>>>
>>> rough, loose power
>>>
>>>> and scare hell out of me. And I tore my hair out for hours. Then I
>>>>
>>> learned that the
>>>
>>>> Bing Carb is a delicate and sensitive gadget. First, I replaced
>>>>
>>> the SCAT tubing with
>>>
>>>> a 90 degree Gates rubber radiator hose from O'Rieliey's Auto parts
>>>>
>>> as the coupling
>>>
>>>> between the carb and the air filter box. What was occurring was
>>>>
>>> that intake air from
>>>
>>>> the filter was entering the carb inlet unevenly, all on one side
>>>>
>>> and not smoothly
>>>
>>>> and this messed with the delicate rubber venture inside the carb
>>>>
>>> that controls
>>>
>>>> mixture. Then I made a divider wall of aluminum inside the hose
>>>>
>>> that spands from
>>>
>>>> just prior to the inlet all the way around the turn of the hose
>>>>
>>> bend(probably 6
>>>
>>>> inches). Is made out on .25 6061T6 and stays put because of the
>>>>
>>> hose bend.This
>>>
>>>> # allowed the air stream to be even and smooth as it travels
>>>> to the carb and enters the rear of the Bing. First flight
>>>>
>>> afterward was great.
>>>
>>>> Hundreds of flights since, full smooth and dependable power. Only
>>>>
>>> other thing might
>>>
>>>> be plugs. Change them and run only the temp Jab says to run. Not
>>>>
>>> hotter or colder.
>>>
>>>> Best of luck, Bill of Georgia
>>>>
>>>> See induction system description above...
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Martin Hone<aerobiz1@gmail.com<**mailto:aerobiz1@gmail.com>>
>>>> To: jabiruengine-list<jabiruengine**-list@matronics.com<jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
>>>> <mailto:jabiruengine-list@**matronics.com<jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
>>>> >>
>>>> Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 5:36 pm
>>>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough running
>>>>
>>> puzzle.
>>>
>>>> J, it must be frustrating not having any of the engine gurus offer
>>>>
>>> years of
>>>
>>>> experience in solving this problem. Maybe they are too busy with
>>>>
>>> all the other
>>>
>>>> problems.... ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, have you tried tilting the carb in its mount to see if the
>>>>
>>> problem moves to
>>>
>>>> another cylinder. it is a know problem that the Jab inlet system
>>>>
>>> is diabolical.
>>>
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:36 PM, j. davis<jd@lawsonimaging.ca
>>>> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis"
>>>>
>>> <jd@lawsonimaging.ca
>>>
>>>> <mailto:jd@lawsonimaging.ca>>
>>>>
>>>> On 06/16/2011 11:16 PM, ces308 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by:
>>>>
>>> "ces308"<ces308@ldaco.com
>>>
>>>> <mailto:ces308@ldaco.com>>
>>>>
>>>> J....
>>>>
>>>> Did you ever figure out what the problem was???
>>>>
>>>> chris ambrose
>>>> Kolb M3X/Jabiru A-2200 191.0 hrs
>>>> N327CS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Chris...
>>>>
>>>> No, I've only been able to eliminate a bunch of items as *not*
>>>>
>>> being the cause:
>>>
>>>> I've been hoping that the two or three guys who monitor this
>>>>
>>> list regularly and work
>>>
>>>> on [Jabiru] engines for a living would contribute. Hoping that
>>>>
>>> maybe they had
>>>
>>>> seen similar
>>>> symptoms in one of their hundreds or thousands of engines
>>>>
>>> that have passed
>>>
>>>> through their
>>>> establishments... I see them chiming on other issues all the
>>>>
>>> time. Maybe
>>>
>>>> they're stumped speechless :-)
>>>>
>>>> The issue: *both* #3 plugs equally sooty, all other plugs
>>>>
>>> light tan (see
>>>
>>>> previous attached pic)
>>>>
>>>> Here's what I've tried:
>>>>
>>>> - leak down test consistently good, both cold and warm
>>>> - h.t. wires to cyl. #3 swapped for #4's. #3 plugs still sooty
>>>> - distributor innards checked (both would have to have same #3
>>>>
>>> issue)
>>>
>>>> - all valve springs checked, all lifters checked for soft or
>>>>
>>> collapsed
>>>
>>>> - air gap set to 0.010"
>>>> - new plugs (obviously)
>>>> - other miscellaneous checks, such as h.t. wire seating, etc.
>>>>
>>>> What I haven't yet tried:
>>>>
>>>> - examining the cam. Wouldn't a worn cam lobe result in not
>>>>
>>> enough lift and a
>>>
>>>> *lean* mixture
>>>> on that cylinder?
>>>> - using a vacuum gauge. Where could I connect it (no Bing,
>>>>
>>> remember) ? Do I
>>>
>>>> need to drill and weld in a nipple in the intake manifold?
>>>>
>>>> So the question stands. What could cause either:
>>>>
>>>> - a single cylinder of six to run so rich as to actually foul
>>>> *both* plugs
>>>>
>>>> or
>>>>
>>>> - the two plugs of the single cylinder not to fire
>>>>
>>> sufficiently to burn off the
>>>
>>>> charge
>>>>
>>>> ...keeping in mind the trouble-shooting items I have already
>>>>
>>> eliminated...
>>>
>>>> So far, I've flown about an hour since my pre-flight mag test
>>>>
>>> went back to
>>>
>>>> normal, probably
>>>> as a result of replacing #3 plugs, likely one or both were
>>>>
>>> fouled.
>>>
>>>> But my confidence level is low, as I wait for the current #3
>>>>
>>> plugs to foul. I
>>>
>>>> just wish I could
>>>> discover the reason for this behaviour!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to all for the input!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/**viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Regards, J.
>>>>
>>>> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
>>>> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
>>>> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>>>>
>>>> -----------------------------
>>>> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
>>>> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca<http://**lawsonimaging.ca<http://lawsonimaging.ca>
>>>> >
>>>> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
>>>> http://cleco.ca
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour
>>>> in only ten minutes.
>>>> --- Steven Wright
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> =====**=====
>>>> -
>>>> ine-List"
>>>>
>>> target="_blank">http://www.**matronics.com/Navigator?**JabiruEngine-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List>
>>>
>>>> =====**=====
>>>> MS -
>>>> k">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>> ==========
>>>> e -
>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>> t="_blank">http://www.**matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>>>> =====**=====
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> tor?JabiruEngine-List">http://**www.matronics.com/Navigator?**
>>> JabiruEngine-L <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-L>
>>> ist
>>>
>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com<http**://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com>
>>>> >
>>>> bution">http://www.matronics.**com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> href="http://www.matronics.**com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-**List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List>
>>> ">http://www.m
>>> atronics.com/Navigator?**JabiruEngine-List<http://atronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List>
>>>
>>>> href="http://forums.matronics.**com <http://forums.matronics.com>">
>>>> http://forums.matronics.**com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>>>
>>>> href="http://www.matronics.**com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>>> ">http://www.**matronics.com/c <http://www.matronics.com/c>
>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> ist"
>>>>
>>> target="_blank">http://www.**matronics.com/Navigator?**JabiruEngine-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List>
>>>
>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.**com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Regards, J.
>>>
>>> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
>>> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
>>> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>>>
>>> -----------------------------
>>> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
>>> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
>>> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
>>> http://cleco.ca
>>>
>>>
>>> If you can't hear me, it's because I'm in parentheses.
>>> --- Steven Wright
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards, J.
>>
>> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
>> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
>> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
>>
>> -----------------------------
>> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
>> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
>> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin
>> http://cleco.ca
>>
>>
>> Four years ago..............no, it was yesterday.
>> --- Steven Wright
>>
>>
>> ====**==============================**=
>> -
>> ine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**
>> Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
>> ====**==============================**=
>> MS -
>> k">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ====**=====**=
>> e -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**contribution
>> ====**==============================**=
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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>
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