---------------------------------------------------------- JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/19/11: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:41 AM - Re: J.'s rich #3 cylinder update (j. davis) 2. 10:15 AM - Re: J.'s rich #3 cylinder update (Lynn Matteson) 3. 11:42 AM - Re: J.'s rich #3 cylinder update (j. davis) 4. 07:49 PM - Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix (Martin Hone) 5. 08:30 PM - Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix (Keith Pickford) 6. 11:19 PM - Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix (Martin Hone) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:10 AM PST US From: "j. davis" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: J.'s rich #3 cylinder update On 06/18/2011 07:20 PM, James, Clive R wrote: > It's the unexplained change that makes J's problem so difficult when you bear in mind > the extensive testing and inspection that has eliminated everything it could be. > First, I pulled my cowling and right side plugs, and I'm happy to report that #3's plugs are a gorgeous tan colour, same as #1's and #5s. Can't say that the 100LL actually fixed anything, more that the Shell mogas aggravated the issue (whatever it actually is). You know Clive, I've been trying hard to link this issue to *something* I may have done during my 100 hour inspection/annual, since I learned long ago that when troubleshooting just about anything, from computer programs to engines, to look back to what was changed last. So far, I haven't been able to establish any such link, but the mention of the diverter got me thinking and looking. During the recent work I did, one thing that I changer was the location of an adel clamp that supports an oil line than runs just under the carb. It;s new location makes use of the same bolt that affixes that diverter. Looking inside with a mirror, I can't really tell if it got canted at all when I removed and replaced it's bolt, and I haven't yet disassembled the diverter to see if it actually *can* physically twist, but maybe, just maybe, that's what happened. Not sure why just the center cylinder in the bank would show the effect, but that's probably a fluid dynamics exercise ;') Anyway, I'm thinking to make the diverter change you mentioned, but so far have not found the article/SB. I've checked the SBs on jabiru.net.au, but don't find it there. If anyone can provide me a link to that information, and/or experienced instructions, I'd appreciate it. Thanks, as always. -- Regards, J. - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca ----------------------------- J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca *NIX consulting, SysAdmin http://cleco.ca I was reading the dictionary. I thought it was a poem about everything. --- Steven Wright ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:15:40 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: J.'s rich #3 cylinder update It's VERY highly unlikely that loosening that bolt, or even removing it completely would allow the diverter to get out of place....that is, if it's anything like the "manifold" that WAS in my 2200. In the 2200, the manifold halves are machined to accept the shape (teardrop) of that diverter, and unless you had *all* of the manifold-attaching bolts loosened by at least 1/8", the diverter would stay in place. That is, IF the 3300 uses the same *type* of machining that the 2200 does/did. But as we all know, or should know by now, Jabiru makes changes without consulting me (that's a joke, for those humor- challenged folks out there), and the newer engines could be different from what mine was. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062 Temporarily w/Sensenich 55.5 x 46 prop while Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip) is in for upgrade Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm) Status: flying with "Ramcharger" intake manifold...1121 hrs (since 3-27-2006) On Jun 19, 2011, at 11:37 AM, j. davis wrote: > > > On 06/18/2011 07:20 PM, James, Clive R wrote: >> It's the unexplained change that makes J's problem so difficult >> when you bear in mind the extensive testing and inspection that >> has eliminated everything it could be. >> > > First, I pulled my cowling and right side plugs, and I'm happy to > report that #3's plugs are a gorgeous tan colour, same as #1's and > #5s. > Can't say that the 100LL actually fixed anything, more that the > Shell mogas aggravated the issue (whatever it actually is). > > You know Clive, I've been trying hard to link this issue to > *something* I may have done during my 100 hour inspection/annual, > since I > learned long ago that when troubleshooting just about anything, > from computer programs to engines, to look back to what was changed > last. > > So far, I haven't been able to establish any such link, but the > mention of the diverter got me thinking and looking. During the > recent work I did, one > thing that I changer was the location of an adel clamp that > supports an oil line than runs just under the carb. It;s new > location makes use > of the same bolt that affixes that diverter. Looking inside with a > mirror, I can't really tell if it got canted at all when I removed and > replaced it's bolt, and I haven't yet disassembled the diverter to > see if it actually *can* physically twist, but maybe, just maybe, > that's > what happened. Not sure why just the center cylinder in the bank > would show the effect, but that's probably a fluid dynamics > exercise ;') > > Anyway, I'm thinking to make the diverter change you mentioned, but > so far have not found the article/SB. I've checked the SBs on > jabiru.net.au, but don't > find it there. If anyone can provide me a link to that information, > and/or experienced instructions, I'd appreciate it. Thanks, as always. > > -- > > Regards, J. > > - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb > - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress > - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:42:50 AM PST US From: "j. davis" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: J.'s rich #3 cylinder update On 06/19/2011 01:12 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote: > > It's VERY highly unlikely that loosening that bolt, or even removing it completely would > allow the diverter to get out of place....that is, if it's anything like the "manifold" > that WAS in my 2200. Oh, OK, haven't actually taken it apart yet, so I'll take your word for it. Do you happen to know any details of the 1/2" ring/tube/rod mod? Realistically, I'll prolly just put the carb back on and experiment with tilting it slightly off vertical, but the divider mod is intriguing... Thanks, Lynn. > In the 2200, the manifold halves are machined to accept the shape (teardrop) of that > diverter, and unless you had *all* of the manifold-attaching bolts loosened by at least > 1/8", the diverter would stay in place. That is, IF the 3300 uses the same *type* of > machining that the 2200 does/did. But as we all know, or should know by now, Jabiru > makes changes without consulting me (that's a joke, for those humor-challenged folks out > there), and the newer engines could be different from what mine was. > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062 > Temporarily w/Sensenich 55.5 x 46 prop while > Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip) is in for upgrade > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm) > Status: flying with "Ramcharger" intake manifold...1121 hrs (since 3-27-2006) > > > On Jun 19, 2011, at 11:37 AM, j. davis wrote: > >> >> On 06/18/2011 07:20 PM, James, Clive R wrote: >>> It's the unexplained change that makes J's problem so difficult when you bear in mind >>> the extensive testing and inspection that has eliminated everything it could be. >>> >> >> First, I pulled my cowling and right side plugs, and I'm happy to report that #3's >> plugs are a gorgeous tan colour, same as #1's and #5s. >> Can't say that the 100LL actually fixed anything, more that the Shell mogas aggravated >> the issue (whatever it actually is). >> >> You know Clive, I've been trying hard to link this issue to *something* I may have done >> during my 100 hour inspection/annual, since I >> learned long ago that when troubleshooting just about anything, from computer programs >> to engines, to look back to what was changed last. >> >> So far, I haven't been able to establish any such link, but the mention of the diverter >> got me thinking and looking. During the recent work I did, one >> thing that I changed was the location of an adel clamp that supports an oil line than >> runs just under the carb. It's new location makes use >> of the same bolt that affixes that diverter. Looking inside with a mirror, I can't >> really tell if it got canted at all when I removed and >> replaced it's bolt, and I haven't yet disassembled the diverter to see if it actually >> *can* physically twist, but maybe, just maybe, that's >> what happened. Not sure why just the center cylinder in the bank would show the effect, >> but that's probably a fluid dynamics exercise ;') >> >> Anyway, I'm thinking to make the diverter change you mentioned, but so far have not >> found the article/SB. I've checked the SBs on jabiru.net.au, but don't >> find it there. If anyone can provide me a link to that information, and/or experienced >> instructions, I'd appreciate it. Thanks, as always. >> >> -- >> >> Regards, J. >> >> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb >> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress >> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca > > -- Regards, J. - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca ----------------------------- J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca *NIX consulting, SysAdmin http://cleco.ca Winny and I lived in a house that ran on static electricity... If you wanted to run the blender, you had to rub balloons on your head. --- Steven Wright ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix From: Martin Hone Clive, I note that you intend to modify the flow divider, as well as 'some work on the Bing drilling out some stuff ' I have removed the airfoil-shaped flow divider and replaced it with the 1/2 inch round turbulator, as well as modded the Bing by drilling out the main airbleed and emulsion block and the idle circuit airbleed. The 3300 runs fine with the plugs showing even readings. However, with the onset of relatively cold weather here (5 Deg C to 18 C ) I have noticed that the engine is a bit harder to start and hesitates when pushing the throttle forward during take-off. I have richened the idle mixture screw which has helped, but at 3 turns out it shows that i need to go a a larger idle jet. ( Pilot Jet). Currently it is #35 and I found that #45 was too rich but that was in warmer weather. #35 is what I will be trying given these cooler conditions. The mods you are contemplating I believe are worthwhile, depending on what issues you are trying to address, of course. Martin On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 1:19 AM, James, Clive R wrote: > clive.james@uk.bp.com> > > Inside the manifold arrangement where the air goes in and the pipes go > out there's a flow divider. Jab made it aero shaped or some such. > One of the bolts that holds the manifold on to the sump goes through it. > If you look under the manifold you'll figure the one it is. > It's recommended to change it to a bit of 1/2 inch tube to cause some > turbulence. Might be just what you need. > I think there's a SB on the Jab Oz website, or maybe it's just a > recommendation from South Africa > Some pictures on the Yahoo Jab engines website I think. > > I plan to do it but just haven't got round to it....part of a > recommended change with some work on the Bing drilling out some stuff. > > It's not a technical mod, just a bolt on bolt off job. > > Regards, Clive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of j. > davis > Sent: 18 June 2011 15:55 > To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix > > --> > > On 06/18/2011 10:34 AM, James, Clive R wrote: > > --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "James, Clive > > --> R" > > > > J, I can't remember, have you changed the flow divider to a round > tube? > > Hi Clive... no, made no such change to date, no reason to do so (to date > :-) ) Not being overly quick to make engine mods, I'm not actually aware > of this flow divider mod... > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of j. > > davis > > Sent: 18 June 2011 14:47 > > To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix > > > > --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis" > > --> > > > > On 06/18/2011 04:10 AM, Martin Hone wrote: > >> J, > >> > >> Both the experts and non-experts have suggested rotating the carb in > >> the rubber coupling to see what effect it may have. If it has any > >> effect then it may well give you an idea as to what the problem is. > > To me, it is not the ignition. > >> Let us know what you find.... > >> > >> Martin > >> > > Thanks for all the responses. I will try rotating the AeroCarb > > slightly to see if I can lean out the 1-3-5 side and enrichen the > > 2-4-6 side (which *does* run hotter). I can see this working for a > > bank, but just one cylinder in a bank? But it's easy enough to try... > > > > I'm feeling slightly better about this issue for a couple of reasons. > > Firstly, I've now put a couple of hours of flying, both around the > > patch and some longer excursions. The rough running has not returned, > > and my pre-flight mag checks are still good. Secondly, I made a 30 > > minute flight yesterday to the local 100LL bar. I'd been using Shell > > VeePower > > (93 octane, no ethanol) so far this season (I normally stick with > > 100LL). > > > > On the way there, #3 cyl's EGTs were some 20-30 degrees C (68-86 F) > > less than the average of the others, consistent with a richer mixture. > > > But after filling with 100LL, the flight home showed #3's EGTs right > > there with nall the others. I haven't yet checked the plugs of #3, but > > > I'm optimistic that they will be in line with the other plugs when I > > do. Not sure *why* the 100LL would have selectively affected #3, > > however. I'll keep you posted. > > > > And I do think I will make the change to Iridium plugs eventually > > > > Thanks again. Some more in-line comments follow: > > > >> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 5:50 PM, James, Clive R > >> > wrote: > >> > >> I'm on here all the while, sorry. > >> > > Yes, Clive, I realize you've been here all the while. Thanks! > > > >> I'm with the shy guy, given all you have tried and found the > >> only > > thing it can be is > >> the way the fuel is hitting the induction pipes. I did mention > >> the > > carby turning > >> trick at the beginning, not as a solution but something to try > >> to > > see if you can > >> make any change that was before I knew the set up. Is there > > anything at all you can > >> play about with to see if this is the issue? The cross in the > > inlet pipe isn't an > >> option? I know it was suggested some time back as well. > >> > > True. My induction side is pretty simple: an AeroCarb is connected to > > > the intake manifold with about a 3" rubber coupling. A K&N filter is > > directly attached to the intake side of the AeroCarb. I could maybe > > try the 'cross' divider inserted into the short rubber coupler > length... > >> There's a guy on another list trying to fix a radio and he's > >> done > > just about > >> everything you could think of, finding something that has some > > effect at all is the > >> next step, won't fix it but might lead on to something else that > > might > >> The throttle thing, is there anything to the way it works that > >> can > > be > >> improved/inspected/changed/turned around.....dickered with? > >> > > Not really. The AeroCarb uses a slide for throttle control, I can't > > think of anything to dicker with :-) > >> Good luck, CJ > >> > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > ------------------ > >> *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com > >> > >> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com > >> ] *On > >> Behalf > > Of > >> *japhillipsga@aol.com > >> *Sent:* 18 June 2011 07:24 > >> *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > > > >> *Subject:* JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix > >> > >> J, I pretty much keep off these things, but you seem like a guy > >> in > > need. I have a > >> 3300 in my XL-B. While early into phase 1 the engine would get > > rough, loose power > >> and scare hell out of me. And I tore my hair out for hours. Then > > >> I > > learned that the > >> Bing Carb is a delicate and sensitive gadget. First, I replaced > > the SCAT tubing with > >> a 90 degree Gates rubber radiator hose from O'Rieliey's Auto > >> parts > > as the coupling > >> between the carb and the air filter box. What was occurring was > > that intake air from > >> the filter was entering the carb inlet unevenly, all on one side > > and not smoothly > >> and this messed with the delicate rubber venture inside the carb > > that controls > >> mixture. Then I made a divider wall of aluminum inside the hose > > that spands from > >> just prior to the inlet all the way around the turn of the hose > > bend(probably 6 > >> inches). Is made out on .25 6061T6 and stays put because of the > > hose bend.This > >> # allowed the air stream to be even and smooth as it travels > >> to the carb and enters the rear of the Bing. First flight > > afterward was great. > >> Hundreds of flights since, full smooth and dependable power. > >> Only > > other thing might > >> be plugs. Change them and run only the temp Jab says to run. Not > > hotter or colder. > >> Best of luck, Bill of Georgia > >> > > See induction system description above... > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Martin Hone> > >> To: jabiruengine-list >> > > >> Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 5:36 pm > >> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough running > > puzzle. > >> J, it must be frustrating not having any of the engine gurus > >> offer > > years of > >> experience in solving this problem. Maybe they are too busy with > > all the other > >> problems.... ;-) > >> > >> Anyway, have you tried tilting the carb in its mount to see if > >> the > > problem moves to > >> another cylinder. it is a know problem that the Jab inlet > >> system > > is diabolical. > >> Martin > >> > >> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:36 PM, j. davis >> > wrote: > >> > >> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis" > > >> > > >> > >> On 06/16/2011 11:16 PM, ces308 wrote: > >> > >> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: > > "ces308" >> > > >> > >> J.... > >> > >> Did you ever figure out what the problem was??? > >> > >> chris ambrose > >> Kolb M3X/Jabiru A-2200 191.0 hrs > >> N327CS > >> > >> > >> Hi Chris... > >> > >> No, I've only been able to eliminate a bunch of items as > >> *not* > > being the cause: > >> I've been hoping that the two or three guys who monitor this > > list regularly and work > >> on [Jabiru] engines for a living would contribute. Hoping > >> that > > maybe they had > >> seen similar > >> symptoms in one of their hundreds or thousands of engines > > that have passed > >> through their > >> establishments... I see them chiming on other issues all > >> the > > time. Maybe > >> they're stumped speechless :-) > >> > >> The issue: *both* #3 plugs equally sooty, all other plugs > > light tan (see > >> previous attached pic) > >> > >> Here's what I've tried: > >> > >> - leak down test consistently good, both cold and warm > >> - h.t. wires to cyl. #3 swapped for #4's. #3 plugs still > sooty > >> - distributor innards checked (both would have to have same > >> #3 > > issue) > >> - all valve springs checked, all lifters checked for soft or > > collapsed > >> - air gap set to 0.010" > >> - new plugs (obviously) > >> - other miscellaneous checks, such as h.t. wire seating, > etc. > >> > >> What I haven't yet tried: > >> > >> - examining the cam. Wouldn't a worn cam lobe result in not > > enough lift and a > >> *lean* mixture > >> on that cylinder? > >> - using a vacuum gauge. Where could I connect it (no Bing, > > remember) ? Do I > >> need to drill and weld in a nipple in the intake manifold? > >> > >> So the question stands. What could cause either: > >> > >> - a single cylinder of six to run so rich as to actually > >> foul > >> *both* plugs > >> > >> or > >> > >> - the two plugs of the single cylinder not to fire > > sufficiently to burn off the > >> charge > >> > >> ...keeping in mind the trouble-shooting items I have already > > eliminated... > >> So far, I've flown about an hour since my pre-flight mag > >> test > > went back to > >> normal, probably > >> as a result of replacing #3 plugs, likely one or both were > > fouled. > >> But my confidence level is low, as I wait for the current #3 > > plugs to foul. I > >> just wish I could > >> discover the reason for this behaviour! > >> > >> Thanks to all for the input! > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Regards, J. > >> > >> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb > >> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress > >> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca > >> > >> ----------------------------- > >> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) > >> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca > >> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin > >> http://cleco.ca > >> > >> > >> I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour > >> in only ten minutes. > >> --- Steven Wright > >> > >> > >> =================================== > >> - > >> ine-List" > > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > >> =================================== > >> MS - > >> k">http://forums.matronics.com > >> ========== > >> e - > >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > >> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > >> =================================== > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> * > >> > >> > > tor?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine > > -L > > ist > >> tp://forums.matronics.com > >> bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > >> > >> * > >> > >> * > >> > >> > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www > > .m atronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > >> > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ > > c > >> * > >> > >> * > >> > >> ist" > > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > >> tp://forums.matronics.com > >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > >> > >> * > >> > >> > >> * > >> > >> > >> * > > > > -- > > Regards, J. > > > > - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb > > - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress > > - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca > > > > ----------------------------- > > J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) > > email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca > > *NIX consulting, SysAdmin > > http://cleco.ca > > > > > > If you can't hear me, it's because I'm in parentheses. > > --- Steven Wright > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, J. > > - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb > - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress > - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca > > ----------------------------- > J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) > email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca > *NIX consulting, SysAdmin > http://cleco.ca > > > Four years ago..............no, it was yesterday. > --- Steven Wright > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:10 PM PST US From: Keith Pickford Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix Have you drilled out the choke jet in the float bowl as per the last Jabba Chat - That's meant to help cold starting Cheers Keith --- On Mon, 20/6/11, Martin Hone wrote: From: Martin Hone Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix Clive, I note that you intend to modify the flow divider, as well as 'some work on the Bing drilling out some stuff ' I have removed the airfoil-shaped flow divider and replaced it with the 1/2 inch round turbulator, as well as modded the Bing by drilling out the main airbleed and emulsion block and the idle circuit airbleed. -The 3300 run s fine with the plugs showing even readings. -However, with the onset of relatively cold weather here (5 Deg C to 18 C ) I have noticed that the eng ine is a bit harder to start and hesitates when pushing the throttle forwar d during take-off. -I have richened the idle mixture screw which has help ed, but at 3 turns out it shows that i need to go a a larger idle jet. ( Pi lot Jet). Currently it is #35 and I found that #45 was too rich but that wa s in warmer weather. -#35 is what I will be trying given these cooler con ditions. -The mods you are contemplating I believe are worthwhile, depend ing on what issues you are trying to address, of course.=0A Martin On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 1:19 AM, James, Clive R wro te: k.bp.com> =0A =0AInside the manifold arrangement where the air goes in and the pipes go =0Aout there's a flow divider. Jab made it aero shaped or some such. =0AOne of the bolts that holds the manifold on to the sump goes through it. =0AIf you look under the manifold you'll figure the one it is. =0AIt's recommended to change it to a bit of 1/2 inch tube to cause some =0Aturbulence. Might be just what you need. =0AI think there's a SB on the Jab Oz website, or maybe it's just a =0Arecommendation from South Africa =0ASome pictures on the Yahoo Jab engines website I think. =0A =0AI plan to do it but just haven't got round to it....part of a =0Arecommended change with some work on the Bing drilling out some stuff. =0A =0AIt's not a technical mod, just a bolt on bolt off job. =0A =0ARegards, Clive =0A =0A-----Original Message----- =0AFrom: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of j. =0Adavis =0ASent: 18 June 2011 15:55 =0ATo: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com =0ASubject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix =0A =0A--> =0A =0AOn 06/18/2011 10:34 AM, James, Clive R wrote: =0A> --> -JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "James, Clive =0A> --> R" =0A> =0A> J, I can't remember, have you changed the flow divider to a round =0Atube? =0A =0AHi Clive... no, made no such change to date, no reason to do so (to date =0A:-) ) Not being overly quick to make engine mods, I'm not actually aware =0Aof this flow divider mod... =0A =0A> -----Original Message----- =0A> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com =0A> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of j. =0A> davis =0A> Sent: 18 June 2011 14:47 =0A> To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com =0A> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix =0A> =0A> --> -JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis" =0A> --> - =0A> =0A> On 06/18/2011 04:10 AM, Martin Hone wrote: =0A>> J, =0A>> =0A>> Both the experts and non-experts have suggested rotating the carb in =0A>> the rubber coupling to see what effect it may have. -If it has any =0A>> effect then it may well give you an idea as to what the problem is. =0A> To me, it is not the ignition. =0A>> Let us know what you find.... =0A>> =0A>> Martin =0A>> =0A> Thanks for all the responses. I will try rotating the AeroCarb =0A> slightly to see if I can lean out the 1-3-5 side and enrichen the =0A> 2-4-6 side (which *does* run hotter). I can see this working for a =0A> bank, but just one cylinder in a bank? But it's easy enough to try... =0A> =0A> I'm feeling slightly better about this issue for a couple of reasons. =0A> Firstly, I've now put a couple of hours of flying, both around the =0A> patch and some longer excursions. The rough running has not returned, =0A> and my pre-flight mag checks are still good. Secondly, I made a 30 =0A> minute flight yesterday to the local 100LL bar. I'd been using Shell =0A> VeePower =0A> (93 octane, no ethanol) so far this season (I normally stick with =0A> 100LL). =0A> =0A> On the way there, #3 cyl's EGTs were some 20-30 degrees C (68-86 F) =0A> less than the average of the others, consistent with a richer mixture. =0A =0A> But after filling with 100LL, the flight home showed #3's EGTs right =0A> there with nall the others. I haven't yet checked the plugs of #3, but =0A =0A> I'm optimistic that they will be in line with the other plugs when I =0A> do. Not sure *why* the 100LL would have selectively affected #3, =0A> however. -I'll keep you posted. =0A> =0A> And I do think I will make the change to Iridium plugs eventually =0A> =0A> Thanks again. Some more in-line comments follow: =0A> =0A>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 5:50 PM, James, Clive R> > -wrote: =0A>> =0A>> - - -I'm on here all the while, sorry. =0A>> =0A> Yes, Clive, I realize you've been here all the while. Thanks! =0A> =0A>> - - -I'm with the shy guy, given all you have tried and found t he =0A>> only =0A> thing it can be is =0A>> - - -the way the fuel is hitting the induction pipes. I did men tion =0A>> the =0A> carby turning =0A>> - - -trick at the beginning, not as a solution but something to try =0A>> to =0A> see if you can =0A>> - - -make any change that was before I knew the set up. Is ther e =0A> anything at all you can =0A>> - - -play about with to see if this is the issue? The cross in the =0A> inlet pipe isn't an =0A>> - - -option? I know it was suggested some time back as well. =0A>> =0A> True. My induction side is pretty simple: -an AeroCarb is connected to =0A =0A> the intake manifold with about a 3" rubber coupling. A K&N filter is =0A> directly attached to the intake side of the AeroCarb. I could maybe =0A> try the 'cross' divider inserted into the short rubber coupler =0Alength... =0A>> - - -There's a guy on another list trying to fix a radio and he 's =0A>> done =0A> just about =0A>> - - -everything you could think of, finding something that has some =0A> effect at all is the =0A>> - - -next step, won't fix it but might lead on to something els e that =0A> might =0A>> - - -The throttle thing, is there anything to the way it works that =0A>> can =0A> be =0A>> - - -improved/inspected/changed/turned around.....dickered with ? =0A>> =0A> Not really. The AeroCarb uses a slide for throttle control, I can't =0A> think of anything to dicker with :-) =0A>> - - -Good luck, CJ =0A>> =0A>> =0A> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- =0A> -- =0A> ------------------ =0A>> - - -*From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com =0A>> - - - =0A>> - - -[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com =0A>> - - -] *On =0A>> Behalf =0A> Of =0A>> - - -*japhillipsga@aol.com =0A>> - - -*Sent:* 18 June 2011 07:24 =0A>> - - -*To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com =0A> =0A>> - - -*Subject:* JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix =0A>> =0A>> - - -J, I pretty much keep off these things, but you seem like a guy =0A>> in =0A> need. I have a =0A>> - - -3300 in my XL-B. While early into phase 1 the engine would get =0A> rough, loose power =0A>> - - -and scare hell out of me. And I tore my hair out for hours .. Then =0A =0A>> I =0A> learned that the =0A>> - - -Bing Carb is a delicate and sensitive gadget. First, I rep laced =0A> the SCAT tubing with =0A>> - - -a 90 degree Gates rubber radiator hose from O'Rieliey's Au to =0A>> parts =0A> as the coupling =0A>> - - -between the carb and the air filter box. What was occurrin g was =0A> that intake air from =0A>> - - -the filter was entering the carb inlet unevenly, all on on e side =0A> and not smoothly =0A>> - - -and this messed with the delicate rubber venture inside th e carb =0A> that controls =0A>> - - -mixture. Then I made a divider wall of aluminum inside the hose =0A> that spands from =0A>> - - -just prior to the inlet all the way around the turn of the hose =0A> bend(probably 6 =0A>> - - -inches). Is made out on .25 6061T6 and stays put because o f the =0A> hose bend.This =0A>> - -# allowed the air stream to be even and smooth as it travels =0A>> - - -to the carb and enters the rear of the Bing. First flight =0A> afterward was great. =0A>> - - -Hundreds of flights since, full smooth and dependable powe r. =0A>> Only =0A> other thing might =0A>> - - -be plugs. Change them and run only the temp Jab says to ru n. Not =0A> hotter or colder. =0A>> - - -Best of luck, Bill of Georgia =0A>> =0A> See induction system description above... =0A> =0A>> - - ------Original Message----- =0A>> - - -From: Martin Hone> =0A>> - - -To: jabiruengine-list> - - -> =0A>> - - -Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 5:36 pm =0A>> - - -Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough runni ng =0A> puzzle. =0A>> - - -J, it must be frustrating not having any of the engine gur us =0A>> offer =0A> years of =0A>> - - -experience in solving this problem. Maybe they are too bus y with =0A> all the other =0A>> - - -problems.... -;-) =0A>> =0A>> - - -Anyway, have you tried tilting the carb in its mount to se e if =0A>> the =0A> problem moves to =0A>> - - -another cylinder. -it is a know problem that the Jab inl et =0A>> system =0A> is diabolical. =0A>> - - -Martin =0A>> =0A>> - - -On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:36 PM, j. davis> - - -> -wrote: =0A>> =0A>> - - - - ---> -JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. da vis" =0A> > - - - - -> =0A>> =0A>> - - - - -On 06/16/2011 11:16 PM, ces308 wrote: =0A>> =0A>> - - - - - - ---> - JabiruEngine-List message posted b y: =0A> "ces308"> - - - - - - -> =0A>> =0A>> - - - - - - -J.... =0A>> =0A>> - - - - - - -Did you ever figure out what the problem w as??? =0A>> =0A>> - - - - - - -chris ambrose =0A>> - - - - - - -Kolb M3X/Jabiru A-2200 - -191.0 hrs =0A>> - - - - - - -N327CS =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> - - - - -Hi Chris... =0A>> =0A>> - - - - -No, I've only been able to eliminate a bunch of it ems as =0A>> *not* =0A> being the cause: =0A>> - - - - -I've been hoping that the two or three guys who mo nitor this =0A> list regularly and work =0A>> - - - - -on [Jabiru] engines for a living would contribute. Hoping =0A>> that =0A> maybe they had =0A>> - - - - -seen similar =0A>> - - - - -symptoms in one of their hundreds or thousands of -engines =0A> that have passed =0A>> - - - - -through their =0A>> - - - - -establishments... -I see them chiming on other i ssues all =0A>> the =0A> time. Maybe =0A>> - - - - -they're stumped speechless :-) =0A>> =0A>> - - - - -The issue: *both* #3 plugs equally sooty, all othe r plugs =0A> light tan (see =0A>> - - - - -previous attached pic) =0A>> =0A>> - - - - -Here's what I've tried: =0A>> =0A>> - - - - -- leak down test consistently good, both cold and warm =0A>> - - - - -- h.t. wires to cyl. #3 swapped for #4's. #3 plugs still =0Asooty =0A>> - - - - -- distributor innards checked (both would have to have same =0A>> #3 =0A> issue) =0A>> - - - - -- all valve springs checked, all lifters checked f or soft or =0A> collapsed =0A>> - - - - -- air gap set to 0.010" =0A>> - - - - -- new plugs (obviously) =0A>> - - - - -- other miscellaneous checks, such as h.t. wire se ating, =0Aetc. =0A>> =0A>> - - - - -What I haven't yet tried: =0A>> =0A>> - - - - -- examining the cam. Wouldn't a worn cam lobe resu lt in not =0A> enough lift and a =0A>> - - - - -*lean* mixture =0A>> - - - - - on that cylinder? =0A>> - - - - -- using a vacuum gauge. Where could I connect it ( no Bing, =0A> remember) ? Do I =0A>> - - - - - need to drill and weld in a nipple in the intake manifold? =0A>> =0A>> - - - - -So the question stands. What could cause either: =0A>> =0A>> - - - - -- a single cylinder of six to run so rich as to ac tually =0A>> foul =0A>> *both* plugs =0A>> =0A>> - - - - -or =0A>> =0A>> - - - - -- the two plugs of the single cylinder not to fire =0A> sufficiently to burn off the =0A>> - - - - -charge =0A>> =0A>> - - - - -...keeping in mind the trouble-shooting items I ha ve already =0A> eliminated... =0A>> - - - - -So far, I've flown about an hour since my pre-flig ht mag =0A>> test =0A> went back to =0A>> - - - - -normal, probably =0A>> - - - - -as a result of replacing #3 plugs, likely one or b oth were =0A> fouled. =0A>> - - - - -But my confidence level is low, as I wait for the current #3 =0A> plugs to foul. I =0A>> - - - - -just wish I could =0A>> - - - - -discover the reason for this behaviour! =0A>> =0A>> - - - - -Thanks to all for the input! =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> - - - - - - -Read this topic online here: =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249 =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> - - - - --- =0A>> - - - - -Regards, -J. =0A>> =0A>> - - - - -- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aero carb =0A>> - - - - -- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in prog ress =0A>> - - - - -- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca =0A>> =0A>> - - - - ------------------------------ =0A>> - - - - -J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) =0A>> - - - - -email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca =0A>> - - - - -*NIX consulting, SysAdmin =0A>> - - - - -http://cleco.ca =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> - - - - -I took a course in speed waiting. -Now I can wai t an hour =0A>> - - - - -in only ten minutes. =0A>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- Steven Wright =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> - - - - -========== =0A>> - - - - -- =0A>> - - - - -ine-List" =0A> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List =0A>> - - - - -========== =0A>> - - - - -MS - =0A>> - - - - -k">http://forums.matronics.com =0A>> - - - - -========== =0A>> - - - - -e - =0A>> - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =0A>> - - - - -t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>> - - - - -========== =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> - - -* =0A>> =0A>> =0A> tor?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine =0A> -L =0A> ist =0A>> - - -tp://forums.matronics.com =0A>> - - -bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>> =0A>> - - -* =0A>> =0A>> - - -* =0A>> =0A>> =0A> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://w ww =0A> .m atronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List =0A>> - - -href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matroni cs.com =0A>> =0A> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.co m/ =0A> c =0A>> - - -* =0A>> =0A>> - - -* =0A>> =0A>> - - -ist" =0A> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List =0A>> - - -tp://forums.matronics.com =0A>> - - -_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>> =0A>> - - -* =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> * =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> * =0A> =0A> -- =0A> Regards, -J. =0A> =0A> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb =0A> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress =0A> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca =0A> =0A> ----------------------------- =0A> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) =0A> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca =0A> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin =0A> http://cleco.ca =0A> =0A> =0A> If you can't hear me, it's because I'm in parentheses. =0A> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- Steven Wright =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A =0A =0A-- =0ARegards, -J. =0A =0A- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb =0A- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress =0A- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca =0A =0A----------------------------- =0AJ. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) =0Aemail: jd at lawsonimaging.ca =0A*NIX consulting, SysAdmin =0Ahttp://cleco.ca =0A =0A =0AFour years ago..............no, it was yesterday. =0A - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ---- Stev en Wright =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A========== =0A - =0Aine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEng ine-List =0A========== =0AMS - =0Ak">http://forums.matronics.com =0A========== =0Ae - =0A - - - - --Matt Dralle, List Admin. =0At="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A========== =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A=0A ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:19:41 PM PST US Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix From: Martin Hone Thanks Keith. Yep. Done that..... Cheers martin On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 1:26 PM, Keith Pickford wrote: > Have you drilled out the choke jet in the float bowl as per the last Jabba > Chat - That's meant to help cold starting > > Cheers > > Keith > > --- On *Mon, 20/6/11, Martin Hone * wrote: > > > From: Martin Hone > Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix > To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, 20, June, 2011, 2:44 PM > > Clive, > > I note that you intend to modify the flow divider, as well as 'some work on > the Bing drilling out some stuff ' > > I have removed the airfoil-shaped flow divider and replaced it with the 1/2 > inch round turbulator, as well as modded the Bing by drilling out the main > airbleed and emulsion block and the idle circuit airbleed. The 3300 runs > fine with the plugs showing even readings. However, with the onset of > relatively cold weather here (5 Deg C to 18 C ) I have noticed that the > engine is a bit harder to start and hesitates when pushing the throttle > forward during take-off. I have richened the idle mixture screw which has > helped, but at 3 turns out it shows that i need to go a a larger idle jet. ( > Pilot Jet). Currently it is #35 and I found that #45 was too rich but that > was in warmer weather. #35 is what I will be trying given these cooler > conditions. The mods you are contemplating I believe are worthwhile, > depending on what issues you are trying to address, of course. > > Martin > > On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 1:19 AM, James, Clive R > > wrote: > > clive.james@uk.bp.com > > > Inside the manifold arrangement where the air goes in and the pipes go > out there's a flow divider. Jab made it aero shaped or some such. > One of the bolts that holds the manifold on to the sump goes through it. > If you look under the manifold you'll figure the one it is. > It's recommended to change it to a bit of 1/2 inch tube to cause some > turbulence. Might be just what you need. > I think there's a SB on the Jab Oz website, or maybe it's just a > recommendation from South Africa > Some pictures on the Yahoo Jab engines website I think. > > I plan to do it but just haven't got round to it....part of a > recommended change with some work on the Bing drilling out some stuff. > > It's not a technical mod, just a bolt on bolt off job. > > Regards, Clive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] > On Behalf Of j. > davis > Sent: 18 June 2011 15:55 > To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix > > --> > > > On 06/18/2011 10:34 AM, James, Clive R wrote: > > --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "James, Clive > > --> R" > > > > > > J, I can't remember, have you changed the flow divider to a round > tube? > > Hi Clive... no, made no such change to date, no reason to do so (to date > :-) ) Not being overly quick to make engine mods, I'm not actually aware > of this flow divider mod... > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] > On Behalf Of j. > > davis > > Sent: 18 June 2011 14:47 > > To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix > > > > --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis" > > --> > > > > > On 06/18/2011 04:10 AM, Martin Hone wrote: > >> J, > >> > >> Both the experts and non-experts have suggested rotating the carb in > >> the rubber coupling to see what effect it may have. If it has any > >> effect then it may well give you an idea as to what the problem is. > > To me, it is not the ignition. > >> Let us know what you find.... > >> > >> Martin > >> > > Thanks for all the responses. I will try rotating the AeroCarb > > slightly to see if I can lean out the 1-3-5 side and enrichen the > > 2-4-6 side (which *does* run hotter). I can see this working for a > > bank, but just one cylinder in a bank? But it's easy enough to try... > > > > I'm feeling slightly better about this issue for a couple of reasons. > > Firstly, I've now put a couple of hours of flying, both around the > > patch and some longer excursions. The rough running has not returned, > > and my pre-flight mag checks are still good. Secondly, I made a 30 > > minute flight yesterday to the local 100LL bar. I'd been using Shell > > VeePower > > (93 octane, no ethanol) so far this season (I normally stick with > > 100LL). > > > > On the way there, #3 cyl's EGTs were some 20-30 degrees C (68-86 F) > > less than the average of the others, consistent with a richer mixture. > > > But after filling with 100LL, the flight home showed #3's EGTs right > > there with nall the others. I haven't yet checked the plugs of #3, but > > > I'm optimistic that they will be in line with the other plugs when I > > do. Not sure *why* the 100LL would have selectively affected #3, > > however. I'll keep you posted. > > > > And I do think I will make the change to Iridium plugs eventually > > > > Thanks again. Some more in-line comments follow: > > > >> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 5:50 PM, James, Clive R > > >> >> > wrote: > >> > >> I'm on here all the while, sorry. > >> > > Yes, Clive, I realize you've been here all the while. Thanks! > > > >> I'm with the shy guy, given all you have tried and found the > >> only > > thing it can be is > >> the way the fuel is hitting the induction pipes. I did mention > >> the > > carby turning > >> trick at the beginning, not as a solution but something to try > >> to > > see if you can > >> make any change that was before I knew the set up. Is there > > anything at all you can > >> play about with to see if this is the issue? The cross in the > > inlet pipe isn't an > >> option? I know it was suggested some time back as well. > >> > > True. My induction side is pretty simple: an AeroCarb is connected to > > > the intake manifold with about a 3" rubber coupling. A K&N filter is > > directly attached to the intake side of the AeroCarb. I could maybe > > try the 'cross' divider inserted into the short rubber coupler > length... > >> There's a guy on another list trying to fix a radio and he's > >> done > > just about > >> everything you could think of, finding something that has some > > effect at all is the > >> next step, won't fix it but might lead on to something else that > > might > >> The throttle thing, is there anything to the way it works that > >> can > > be > >> improved/inspected/changed/turned around.....dickered with? > >> > > Not really. The AeroCarb uses a slide for throttle control, I can't > > think of anything to dicker with :-) > >> Good luck, CJ > >> > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > ------------------ > >> *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com > >> > > > >> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com > >> >] > *On > >> Behalf > > Of > >> *japhillipsga@aol.com > > > >> *Sent:* 18 June 2011 07:24 > >> *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > > > > > >> *Subject:* JabiruEngine-List: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix > >> > >> J, I pretty much keep off these things, but you seem like a guy > >> in > > need. I have a > >> 3300 in my XL-B. While early into phase 1 the engine would get > > rough, loose power > >> and scare hell out of me. And I tore my hair out for hours. Then > > >> I > > learned that the > >> Bing Carb is a delicate and sensitive gadget. First, I replaced > > the SCAT tubing with > >> a 90 degree Gates rubber radiator hose from O'Rieliey's Auto > >> parts > > as the coupling > >> between the carb and the air filter box. What was occurring was > > that intake air from > >> the filter was entering the carb inlet unevenly, all on one side > > and not smoothly > >> and this messed with the delicate rubber venture inside the carb > > that controls > >> mixture. Then I made a divider wall of aluminum inside the hose > > that spands from > >> just prior to the inlet all the way around the turn of the hose > > bend(probably 6 > >> inches). Is made out on .25 6061T6 and stays put because of the > > hose bend.This > >> # allowed the air stream to be even and smooth as it travels > >> to the carb and enters the rear of the Bing. First flight > > afterward was great. > >> Hundreds of flights since, full smooth and dependable power. > >> Only > > other thing might > >> be plugs. Change them and run only the temp Jab says to run. Not > > hotter or colder. > >> Best of luck, Bill of Georgia > >> > > See induction system description above... > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Martin Hone > >> > >> To: jabiruengine-list > >> > >> > >> Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 5:36 pm > >> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Help! 3300 rough running > > puzzle. > >> J, it must be frustrating not having any of the engine gurus > >> offer > > years of > >> experience in solving this problem. Maybe they are too busy with > > all the other > >> problems.... ;-) > >> > >> Anyway, have you tried tilting the carb in its mount to see if > >> the > > problem moves to > >> another cylinder. it is a know problem that the Jab inlet > >> system > > is diabolical. > >> Martin > >> > >> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:36 PM, j. davis > >> >> > wrote: > >> > >> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis" > > > >> > >> > >> > >> On 06/16/2011 11:16 PM, ces308 wrote: > >> > >> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: > > "ces308" > >> > >> > >> > >> J.... > >> > >> Did you ever figure out what the problem was??? > >> > >> chris ambrose > >> Kolb M3X/Jabiru A-2200 191.0 hrs > >> N327CS > >> > >> > >> Hi Chris... > >> > >> No, I've only been able to eliminate a bunch of items as > >> *not* > > being the cause: > >> I've been hoping that the two or three guys who monitor this > > list regularly and work > >> on [Jabiru] engines for a living would contribute. Hoping > >> that > > maybe they had > >> seen similar > >> symptoms in one of their hundreds or thousands of engines > > that have passed > >> through their > >> establishments... I see them chiming on other issues all > >> the > > time. Maybe > >> they're stumped speechless :-) > >> > >> The issue: *both* #3 plugs equally sooty, all other plugs > > light tan (see > >> previous attached pic) > >> > >> Here's what I've tried: > >> > >> - leak down test consistently good, both cold and warm > >> - h.t. wires to cyl. #3 swapped for #4's. #3 plugs still > sooty > >> - distributor innards checked (both would have to have same > >> #3 > > issue) > >> - all valve springs checked, all lifters checked for soft or > > collapsed > >> - air gap set to 0.010" > >> - new plugs (obviously) > >> - other miscellaneous checks, such as h.t. wire seating, > etc. > >> > >> What I haven't yet tried: > >> > >> - examining the cam. Wouldn't a worn cam lobe result in not > > enough lift and a > >> *lean* mixture > >> on that cylinder? > >> - using a vacuum gauge. Where could I connect it (no Bing, > > remember) ? Do I > >> need to drill and weld in a nipple in the intake manifold? > >> > >> So the question stands. What could cause either: > >> > >> - a single cylinder of six to run so rich as to actually > >> foul > >> *both* plugs > >> > >> or > >> > >> - the two plugs of the single cylinder not to fire > > sufficiently to burn off the > >> charge > >> > >> ...keeping in mind the trouble-shooting items I have already > > eliminated.... > >> So far, I've flown about an hour since my pre-flight mag > >> test > > went back to > >> normal, probably > >> as a result of replacing #3 plugs, likely one or both were > > fouled. > >> But my confidence level is low, as I wait for the current #3 > > plugs to foul. I > >> just wish I could > >> discover the reason for this behaviour! > >> > >> Thanks to all for the input! > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343249#343249 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Regards, J. > >> > >> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb > >> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress > >> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca > >> > >> ----------------------------- > >> J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) > >> email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca > >> *NIX consulting, SysAdmin > >> http://cleco.ca > >> > >> > >> I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour > >> in only ten minutes. > >> --- Steven Wright > >> > >> > >> ========== > >> - > >> ine-List" > > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > >> ========== > >> MS - > >> k">http://forums.matronics.com > >> ========== > >> e - > >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > >> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > >> ========== > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> * > >> > >> > > tor?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine > > -L > > ist > >> tp://forums.matronics.com > >> bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > >> > >> * > >> > >> * > >> > >> > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www > > .m atronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > >> > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ > > c > >> * > >> > >> * > >> > >> ist" > > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > >> tp://forums.matronics.com > >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > >> > >> * > >> > >> > >> * > >> > >> > >> * > > > > -- > > Regards, J. > > > > - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb > > - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress > > - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca > > > > ----------------------------- > > J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) > > email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca > > *NIX consulting, SysAdmin > > http://cleco.ca > > > > > > If you can't hear me, it's because I'm in parentheses. > > --- Steven Wright > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, J. > > - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb > - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress > - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca > > ----------------------------- > J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci) > email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca > *NIX consulting, SysAdmin > http://cleco.ca > > > Four years ago..............no, it was yesterday. > --- Steven Wright > > > ========== > - > ine-List" target="_blank"> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > ========== > MS - > k">http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > e - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > *http://www.matr * > > * > > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message jabiruengine-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/JabiruEngine-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/jabiruengine-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/jabiruengine-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.