---------------------------------------------------------- JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/11/11: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:12 AM - Starter not rotating (Larry and Dee Pritchard) 2. 09:26 AM - Re:Sticking Starter () 3. 09:07 PM - Re: Re: [jabiruengines] All about Oil Webinar (FLYaDIVE) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:24 AM PST US From: "Larry and Dee Pritchard" Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Starter not rotating Reply to Jeff Paris Sticking relay Larry Pritchard Thorp T-211 3300cc S/N 346 (old style starter)(non - Jabiru relays, NOS 20+ years old) I had over 250 hours on my engine when I tried to start, could not hear relay click. Cycled everything I could think of several times and it finally started. When back at my hangar I removed the relay and red split rocker and everything looked good. Replaced relay to be sure (I hope). The relays I had and the new replacement are all cont. duty. I have 30+ hours since the change and things are good. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:26:50 AM PST US From: Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re:Sticking Starter I have an older starter. One time the starter spun up but the prop did not move. The gear on the starter motor shaft was just pressed on and became loose. I had a welder just touch the end of the shaft and gear. This weld has worked now for many hours. Chuck D. N701TX Jab 2200 Has anyone experienced having your starter motor not engage and whine on start-up? =C2-It's been happening as of late, I end up crawling out of the plane to turn the proppeller and my 3300 starts as normal. =C2-Any ideas or suggestion? ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: RE: [jabiruengines] All about Oil Webinar From: FLYaDIVE Martin: Very good... Which came first... COOLING or LUBRICATION... If you COOL you lower friction, if you lower friction you cool. But, the proof of what it really does is in a simple thing like sharpening a knife. If you lubricate and reduce friction you will never get the knife sharp. AND we are talking about sharpening with a hand stone. If you do not COOL the edge will curl and it wil also loose the hardness of the steel. SO! Which came first? COOLING! Synthetics - Now that is a slippery subject. They can be very stable when you talk single strand. But what they do best is lower friction. And because they do that best they SUFFER in removing heat. One without the other is doing nothing. Years before they were used in aircraft they were used in model airplanes and cars. There was an increase in engine temps an d part failures. Experimenting took over and a BLEND of synthetics and petroleum oils came to light. The best of both worlds. Even today a 50/50 blend is better for both lubrication and cooling. So you can see from above the failure on 100% synthetics is their inability to draw away heat - COOL. Yes there are chemical action taking place within the oil. But, our bigges t problem is not the quality of heat reduction or friction reduction - It is CORROSION - We just don't fly our planes enough. We have to protect the engine from US! Barry On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 6:07 PM, Martin Hone wrote: > Ok, I'll bite.... > > First purpose of oil is to lubricate.....or it could be to cool > > Second. Synthetics advantage is high temp stability > > Third. Not sure of the context here, but I assume it is due to > contamination or inability to scavenge TEL > > How'd I go ? > > Marty > > On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 7:35 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote: > >> Brian: >> >> You got a few errors there... >> >> Item 1: >> Four cylinder engines such as Lycomming and Continental are required to >> run with as little as 2 quarts of oil while keeping the temps in the Gre en >> for the entire fuel quantity on a certified GA. >> >> Item 2: >> STRAIGHT is the same as MONO. >> fyi W stands for WINTER >> The PLUS is the extra anti corrosion inhibitors. >> There is no viscosity difference between 100 or W100 or W100 PLUS. They >> are all 50 weight. Same is true for 80 or W80 or W80 PLUS. They are a ll >> 40 weight. They are single weight oils. >> >> Item 3: >> There is NO MINERAL OIL any more. >> Hasn't been for years. >> The name is still used because of popularity. >> It is like Kleenex for a Tissue. >> "Mineral" refers to NON - AD oils. >> >> Let me throw a "Loaded Question" out to the group: >> What is the FIRST purpose of OIL? >> aka [hint] Which came first, the chicken or the egg? >> >> Second question: >> What is the first advantage of Synthetic Oils? >> >> Third question: >> Why did 100% Synthetic Oil fail? >> [See Second Question] >> >> As far as testing goes... The accepted standard is NOT the engine, but t he >> THREE BALL TEST. Exxon Elite is GREAT for corrosion protection. That i s >> really their claim to fame. Many other oils test the same as Exxon for Load >> and COF. >> >> Barry >> >> >> >> On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 1:56 AM, James, Clive R wr ote: >> >>> Never heard of the Phillips oil in UK so did some surfing, Checkout a >>> test on the Phillips oil against Exxons version. **** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> http://www.eliteavoil.co.uk/wear.pdf**** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> Results to be taken with a pinch of salt of course.**** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> Regards, Clive**** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> *From:* jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com [mailto: >>> jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Brian Anderson >>> *Sent:* 08 September 2011 22:06 >>> *To:* jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com >>> *Subject:* [jabiruengines] All about Oil Webinar**** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> **** >>> >>> Yesterday I participated in the EAA sponsored Webinar - - All about Oil .. >>> It was an on-line presentation by Mike Busch. This guy regularly writes >>> articles for the EAA Sport Aviation magazine. >>> >>> The presentation was great. Mike is very knowledgeable and explains >>> things simply and clearly. >>> >>> Some very interesting facts emerged. >>> >>> 1. Certified engines are required to demonstrate that the will operate >>> satisfactorily with HALF the recommended quantity of oil. Note - - not half >>> way between any marks - - half the total quantity. If you fill to the t op >>> mark on the dipstick it is quite normal for oil to be expelled, and the >>> engine will naturally find its own level. Mike recommends to all his cl ients >>> that they fill with approximately 2/3 the recommended quantity of oil a nd >>> run the engine at that level. >>> >>> It would be easy to check the volume of oil in the Jabiru engine at the >>> lower dipstick mark, and compare that with the quantity of oil that Jab iru >>> recommends. >>> >>> 2. Mike has found no documented evidence that clearly demonstrates that >>> the straight 100 [or 80] grade oil is better for running in an engine, than >>> the monogrades W100, or W100 plus. >>> >>> 3. A multigrade oil is made starting with regular mineral oil [which >>> becomes less viscous as temperatures rise] at a viscosity of say 15, an d >>> adding Viscosity Improvers, which are synthetic, and which increase in >>> viscosity as temperatures rise. By adjusting the proportion and chemist ry of >>> the VI the desired multigrade range can be achieved. However, this is r eally >>> only helpful if you have a problem with the viscosity of the oil at col d >>> ambient starting temperatures. >>> >>> 4. He actively recommends NOT to use a multigrade with synthetic, for >>> example Aeroshell 15W-50. This is 50% synthetic. At least, this is true for >>> engines using leaded fuel. The synthetic oil is not good at scavenging lead >>> and other residues from the engine. Furthermore it is a deal more expen sive. >>> On the other hand Phillips X/C 20W-50 is a straight mineral oil with on ly >>> the VI added, so is OK if you need the lower viscosity at low temperatu res. >>> >>> 5. In an aircraft engine the most fundamental issue is corrosion >>> prevention, rather than wear prevention. Mineral oil is far better at t his >>> than synthetic. Do not compare the requirements of a modern car engine >>> [temperature closely controlled, tight clearances, higher RPM, unleaded >>> fuel, etc] with an aircraft engine. The oil requirements are fundamenta lly >>> different. >>> >>> I found the whole presentation very interesting and helpful. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]**** >>> >>> __._,_.___**** >>> >>> Reply to *sender*| Reply >>> to *group*| Reply >>> *via web post*| >>> *Start a New Topic* >>> **** >>> >>> Messages in this topic( >>> *25*) **** >>> >>> *Recent Activity:* **** >>> >>> **=B7 ***New Members >>> ** 3 * >>> >>> **=B7 ***New Photos >>> ** 1 * >>> >>> **=B7 ***New Files >>> ** 1 * >>> >>> Visit Your Group >>> **** >>> >>> *MARKETPLACE* >>> >>> * >>> * >>> * >>> ------------------------------ >>> * >>> >>> *A bad score is 579. A good idea is checking yours at >>> freecreditscore.com. >>> * >>> >>> [image: Yahoo! Groups] >>> **** >>> >>> Switch to: Text-Only, >>> Daily Digest- >>> Unsubscribe- Terms >>> of Use **** >>> >>> .**** >>> >>> **** >>> >>> __,_._,___**** >>> >>> * >>> >>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine- List >>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> * >>> >>> >> * >> >> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-L ist >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message jabiruengine-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/JabiruEngine-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/jabiruengine-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/jabiruengine-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.