Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 09:25 AM - Make Sure You're Listed -- List of Contributors Published Dec 1! (Matt Dralle)
1. 09:42 AM - CHT still high after cowling modification (Jose M. Toro)
2. 11:21 AM - Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (Rob Turk)
3. 11:24 AM - Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (Martin Hone)
4. 11:54 AM - Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (James, Clive R)
5. 12:01 PM - Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (Jose M. Toro)
6. 12:08 PM - Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (Jose M. Toro)
7. 01:08 PM - Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (Martin Hone)
8. 01:17 PM - Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (James, Clive R)
9. 02:41 PM - Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (Jose M. Toro)
10. 02:45 PM - Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (Jose M. Toro)
11. 05:57 PM - Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (Martin Hone)
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| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed -- List of Contributors Published |
Dec 1!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! On December 1st I post
a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their
appreciation for the Lists.
As a number of people have pointed out in their Contribution comments, the Lists
are a whole lot more valuable than your typical magazine subscription!
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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| Subject: | CHT still high after cowling modification |
Hi All:=0A-=0AOn saturday, I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/J
ab 2200 after modifying the cowling to improve the air exit.- Following a
re the highest temperatures observed:=0A-=0AOil temp:231 F, Oil pressure:
27 psi=0ACHT: 400 F=0AEGT: 1500 F=0A-=0AThe change performed to the cowl
ing made no difference on the observed temperatures.- I changed the cht s
enders for the right cylinders, and have no reason to suspect that the read
ings are not accurate.=0A-=0AI create the following album, Rans S6 Jab 22
00 Cooling System, showing the complete installation.=0Ahttp://groups.yahoo
.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/list=0A-=0AI'm runnin
g out of tricks, and at this point am seriously considering Liquid Cooled H
eads.- Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers, based on my pictures,
do you have any other recommendation?=0A-=0AThanks for your support duri
ng this long journey...=0A-=0AJose Toro=0ARans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifter
s, SN 1905
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| Subject: | Re: CHT still high after cowling modification |
Jose,
The only 'suspect' in your pictures is the oil pan duct. You are
scooping a large amount of air, duct it along the bottom of the sump and
then throw that in the area that is supposed to be low pressure. That
could cause a big curtain of air that prevents hot air from leaving the
cowl.
Since you have a decent oil cooler present (that Positech coller is
hooked up, right?), I would run a quick test and cover most if not all
of the inlet to the oil pan duct.
Another point. You appear to have a somewhat older engine. Running the
CHT up to 400F would result in warped heads in no time flat. Do you see
any signs of blow-by around the head-to-barrel surface? If not, then
perhaps that 400F isn't 400F and your instruments are really off. Take
one of the CHT probes and dunk it in boiling water. Make sure it really
shows the right temperature. Lookup the partnumber on your probes and
your instrument and make sure they are made for eachother. Poor ground
connection between the engine and the instrument panel can cause weird
readings as well.
Hope this helps,
Rob
On 11/21/2011 6:38 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote:
> Hi All:
> On saturday, I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200
> after modifying the cowling to improve the air exit. Following are
> the highest temperatures observed:
> Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi
> CHT: 400 F
> EGT: 1500 F
> The change performed to the cowling made no difference on the observed
> temperatures. I changed the cht senders for the right cylinders, and
> have no reason to suspect that the readings are not accurate.
> I create the following album, */Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System/*,
> showing the complete installation.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/list
> I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am seriously considering
> Liquid Cooled Heads. Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers,
> based on my pictures, do you have any other recommendation?
> Thanks for your support during this long journey...
> Jose Toro
> Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905
> *
>
>
> *
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| Subject: | Re: CHT still high after cowling modification |
Hi Jose,
Without taking measurements, from your pics I don't see any outstanding
reason for your high temps.
The high EGT's indicate to me that you are running lean and I would address
that first by checking float height, then use a larger needle jet and
larger main jet.
If you get your EGT's down, CHT's etc should follow. I figure your engine
is still new and therefore tight, which doesn't help. Are those temp
reading taken at full throttle or cruise ?
Martin
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:38 AM, Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi All:
>
> On saturday, I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after
> modifying the cowling to improve the air exit. Following are the highest
> temperatures observed:
>
> Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi
> CHT: 400 F
> EGT: 1500 F
>
> The change performed to the cowling made no difference on the observed
> temperatures. I changed the cht senders for the right cylinders, and have
> no reason to suspect that the readings are not accurate.
>
> I create the following album, *Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System*, showing
> the complete installation.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/list
>
> I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am seriously considering
> Liquid Cooled Heads. Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers, based on
> my pictures, do you have any other recommendation?
>
> Thanks for your support during this long journey...
>
> Jose Toro
> Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
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| Subject: | CHT still high after cowling modification |
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| Subject: | Re: CHT still high after cowling modification |
Martin:=0A-=0AThe engine now has 4.8 hours, still in break in.- These r
eadings were crusing at 2840 RPM.- My needle jet is 2.76.- I don't know
the size of the main jet, but it is the same one that came with the engine
back in January 2005.- I understand that this was before the economy nee
dles.- Is it there a size of main jet and needle jet that you may recomme
nd, at least to start trial and error?=0A-=0AThanks!=0A-=0AJose=0A=0AFr
om: Martin Hone <aerobiz1@gmail.com>=0ATo: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:22 PM=0ASubject: Re: JabiruEngine-List
: CHT still high after cowling modification=0A=0A=0AHi Jose, =0A=0AWithout
taking measurements, from your pics I don't see any outstanding reason for
your high temps.=0AThe high EGT's indicate to me that you are running lean
and I would address that first by checking float height, then use a larger
needle jet and larger main jet.-=0AIf you get your EGT's down, CHT's etc
should follow. -I figure your engine is still new and therefore tight, wh
ich doesn't help. -Are those temp reading taken at full throttle or cruis
e ?=0A=0AMartin=0A=0A=0AOn Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:38 AM, Jose M. Toro <jose
_m_toro@yahoo.com> wrote:=0A=0AHi All:=0A>=0A>On saturday, I performed the
third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after modifying the cowling to improv
e the air exit.- Following are the highest temperatures observed:=0A>=0A>
Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi=0A>CHT: 400 F=0A>EGT: 1500 F=0A>-=0A
>The change performed to the cowling made no difference on the observed tem
peratures.- I changed the cht senders for the right cylinders, and have n
o reason to suspect that the readings are not accurate.=0A>=0A>I create the
following album, Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System, showing the complete ins
tallation.=0A>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/8848
73074/pic/list=0A>=0A>I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am serio
usly considering Liquid Cooled Heads.- Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the othe
r listers, based on my pictures, do you have any other recommendation?=0A>
=0A>Thanks for your support during this long journey...=0A>=0A>Jose Toro=0A
>Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905=0A>_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com="_blank">www.homebuil
thelp.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributionist" target="
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listtp://forums.
Archive Search & Download,
============
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: CHT still high after cowling modification |
Rob:=0A-=0AThe air flow from the duct goes directly to the muffler.- Wo
uld it make sense to extend the duct to route this air flow under the muffl
er, directly to the cowling exit?- For my next test flight, I will try co
mpletely closing the oil duct entrance at the cowling.--The Positech oi
l cooler and 3 inches oil duct should be providing plenty of oil cooling.
=0A-=0AI bought the replacement cht senders from Grand Rapids, so, compat
ibility with the EIS should not be an issue.- In addition, when the engin
e is not running, the 4 CHT shows consistently OAT.=0A-=0AThanks!=0A-
=0AJose=0A=0AFrom: Rob Turk <matronics@rtist.nl>=0ATo: jabiruengine-list@ma
tronics.com =0ASent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:17 PM=0ASubject: Re: Jabir
uEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling modification=0A=0A=0AJose,=0A=0A
The only 'suspect' in your pictures is the oil pan duct. You are scooping a
large amount of air, duct it along the bottom of the sump and then throw t
hat in the area that is supposed to be low pressure. That could cause a big
curtain of air that prevents hot air from leaving the cowl.=0A=0ASince you
have a decent oil cooler present (that Positech coller is hooked up, right
?), I would run a quick test and cover most if not all of the inlet to the
oil pan duct. =0A=0AAnother point. You appear to have a somewhat older engi
ne. Running the CHT up to 400F would result in warped heads in no time flat
. Do you see any signs of blow-by around the head-to-barrel surface? If not
, then perhaps that 400F isn't 400F and your instruments are really off. Ta
ke one of the CHT probes and dunk it in boiling water. Make sure it really
shows the right temperature. Lookup the partnumber on your probes and your
instrument and make sure they are made for eachother. Poor ground connectio
n between the engine and the instrument panel can cause weird readings as w
ell.=0A=0AHope this helps,=0ARob=0A=0A=0AOn 11/21/2011 6:38 PM, Jose M. Tor
o wrote: =0AHi All:=0A>=0A>On saturday, I performed the third flight on my
Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after modifying the cowling to improve the air exit.-
Following are the highest temperatures observed:=0A>=0A>Oil temp:231 F, Oil
pressure: 27 psi=0A>CHT: 400 F=0A>EGT: 1500 F=0A>-=0A>The change perform
ed to the cowling made no difference on the observed temperatures.- I cha
nged the cht senders for the right cylinders, and have no reason to suspect
that the readings are not accurate.=0A>=0A>I create the following album, R
ans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System, showing the complete installation.=0A>http:
//groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/list=0A>
=0A>I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am seriously considering L
iquid Cooled Heads.- Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers, based o
n my pictures, do you have any other recommendation?=0A>=0A>Thanks for your
support during this long journey...=0A>=0A>Jose Toro=0A>Rans S6ES/Jab 2200
===============
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| Subject: | Re: CHT still high after cowling modification |
Jose,
Your engine is going to run hot simply because it is tight. However,
during this critical phase, where you need to run it reasonably hard to bed
it in, you also need to manage the temps. Looking at the pics again, how
does the cooling air to the oil cooler exit the cooler ? Are the fins
close to the firewall and does the air have to turn through 90 degrees to
pass through ?
Regardless of what jetting your engine came with, if it is indeed running
lean, then larger jets are required. I'd suggest stripping the carb and
determining what you have. If the needle jet is too small, often larger
main jets won't have any effect. Check the float height, place a small
washer under the needle ( unless you have one with multiple grooves and you
can adjust it this way) and use about 2 sizes larger main jet. If the
temps come down, then you are in the ball park....
Marty
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 5:59 AM, Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Martin:
>
> The engine now has 4.8 hours, still in break in. These readings were
> crusing at 2840 RPM. My needle jet is 2.76. I don't know the size of the
> main jet, but it is the same one that came with the engine back in January
> 2005. I understand that this was before the economy needles. Is it there
> a size of main jet and needle jet that you may recommend, at least to start
> trial and error?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jose
>
> *From:* Martin Hone <aerobiz1@gmail.com>
> *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, November 21, 2011 3:22 PM
> *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling
> modification
>
> Hi Jose,
>
> Without taking measurements, from your pics I don't see any outstanding
> reason for your high temps.
> The high EGT's indicate to me that you are running lean and I would
> address that first by checking float height, then use a larger needle jet
> and larger main jet.
> If you get your EGT's down, CHT's etc should follow. I figure your engine
> is still new and therefore tight, which doesn't help. Are those temp
> reading taken at full throttle or cruise ?
>
> Martin
>
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:38 AM, Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> Hi All:
>
> On saturday, I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after
> modifying the cowling to improve the air exit. Following are the highest
> temperatures observed:
>
> Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi
> CHT: 400 F
> EGT: 1500 F
>
> The change performed to the cowling made no difference on the observed
> temperatures. I changed the cht senders for the right cylinders, and have
> no reason to suspect that the readings are not accurate.
>
> I create the following album, *Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System*, showing
> the complete installation.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/list
>
> I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am seriously considering
> Liquid Cooled Heads. Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers, based on
> my pictures, do you have any other recommendation?
>
> Thanks for your support during this long journey...
>
> Jose Toro
> Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905
>
> *
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
> _blank rel=nofollow>www.aeroelectric.com
> /" target=_blank rel=nofollow>www.buildersbooks.com
> =_blank rel=nofollow>www.homebuilthelp.com
> blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | CHT still high after cowling modification |
I would still try the boiling water test. Errors are unlikely to show at
ambient.
It's suggested the sump can provide as much as 25% of the oil cooling
and I think it is at least that so be aware you may get a very hot
engine.
When I had my sump covered no amount of air through the oil cooler was
enough at high power.
Regards, Clive
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jose
M. Toro
Sent: 21 November 2011 20:06
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling
modification
Rob:
The air flow from the duct goes directly to the muffler. Would it make
sense to extend the duct to route this air flow under the muffler,
directly to the cowling exit? For my next test flight, I will try
completely closing the oil duct entrance at the cowling. The Positech
oil cooler and 3 inches oil duct should be providing plenty of oil
cooling.
I bought the replacement cht senders from Grand Rapids, so,
compatibility with the EIS should not be an issue. In addition, when
the engine is not running, the 4 CHT shows consistently OAT.
Thanks!
Jose
From: Rob Turk <matronics@rtist.nl>
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling
modification
Jose,
The only 'suspect' in your pictures is the oil pan duct. You are
scooping a large amount of air, duct it along the bottom of the sump and
then throw that in the area that is supposed to be low pressure. That
could cause a big curtain of air that prevents hot air from leaving the
cowl.
Since you have a decent oil cooler present (that Positech coller is
hooked up, right?), I would run a quick test and cover most if not all
of the inlet to the oil pan duct.
Another point. You appear to have a somewhat older engine. Running the
CHT up to 400F would result in warped heads in no time flat. Do you see
any signs of blow-by around the head-to-barrel surface? If not, then
perhaps that 400F isn't 400F and your instruments are really off. Take
one of the CHT probes and dunk it in boiling water. Make sure it really
shows the right temperature. Lookup the partnumber on your probes and
your instrument and make sure they are made for eachother. Poor ground
connection between the engine and the instrument panel can cause weird
readings as well.
Hope this helps,
Rob
On 11/21/2011 6:38 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote:
Hi All:
On saturday, I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after
modifying the cowling to improve the air exit. Following are the
highest temperatures observed:
Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi
CHT: 400 F
EGT: 1500 F
The change performed to the cowling made no difference on the observed
temperatures. I changed the cht senders for the right cylinders, and
have no reason to suspect that the readings are not accurate.
I create the following album, Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System, showing
the complete installation.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/l
ist
I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am seriously considering
Liquid Cooled Heads. Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers, based
on my pictures, do you have any other recommendation?
Thanks for your support during this long journey...
Jose Toro
Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905
_blank rel=nofollow>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank rel=nofollow>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank rel=nofollow>www.homebuilthelp.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: CHT still high after cowling modification |
Clive:=0A=C2-=0AThen will have to go for the boiling water test.=C2- Th
anks for the advice about the sump covered.=C2- Do you think it could hel
p if I deflect the air that exits the oil pan duct in direction to the cowl
ling exit?=0A=C2-=0AJose=0A=0AFrom: "James, Clive R" <clive.james@uk.bp.c
om>=0ATo: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, November 21, 201
1 5:14 PM=0ASubject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling mo
dification=0A=0A=0AI would still try the boiling water test. Errors are unl
ikely to show at ambient.=0A=C2-=0AIt=99s suggested the sump can pr
ovide as much as 25% of the oil cooling and I think it is at least that so
be aware you may get a very hot engine. =0AWhen I had my sump covered no am
ount of air through the oil cooler was enough at high power.=0A=C2-=0AReg
ards, Clive=0A=C2-=0AFrom:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [m
ailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jose M. To
ro=0ASent: 21 November 2011 20:06=0ATo: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com=0AS
ubject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling modification=0A
=C2-=0ARob:=0A=C2-=0AThe air flow from the duct goes directly to the mu
ffler.=C2- Would it make sense to extend the duct to route this air flow
under the muffler, directly to the cowling exit?=C2- For my next test fli
ght, I will try completely closing the oil duct entrance at the cowling.=C2
-=C2-The Positech oil cooler and 3 inches oil duct should be providing
plenty of oil cooling.=0A=C2-=0AI bought the replacement cht senders from
Grand Rapids, so, compatibility with the EIS should not be an issue.=C2-
In addition, when the engine is not running, the 4 CHT shows consistently
OAT.=0A=C2-=0AThanks!=0A=C2-=0AJose=0A=C2-=0AFrom:Rob Turk <matronics
@rtist.nl>=0ATo: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, November
21, 2011 3:17 PM=0ASubject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cow
ling modification=0AJose,=0A=0AThe only 'suspect' in your pictures is the o
il pan duct. You are scooping a large amount of air, duct it along the bott
om of the sump and then throw that in the area that is supposed to be low p
ressure. That could cause a big curtain of air that prevents hot air from l
eaving the cowl.=0A=0ASince you have a decent oil cooler present (that Posi
tech coller is hooked up, right?), I would run a quick test and cover most
if not all of the inlet to the oil pan duct. =0A=0AAnother point. You appea
r to have a somewhat older engine. Running the CHT up to 400F would result
in warped heads in no time flat. Do you see any signs of blow-by around the
head-to-barrel surface? If not, then perhaps that 400F isn't 400F and your
instruments are really off. Take one of the CHT probes and dunk it in boil
ing water. Make sure it really shows the right temperature. Lookup the part
number on your probes and your instrument and make sure they are made for e
achother. Poor ground connection between the engine and the instrument pane
l can cause weird readings as well.=0A=0AHope this helps,=0ARob=0A=0A=0AOn
11/21/2011 6:38 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote: =0AHi All:=0A=C2-=0AOn saturday,
I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after modifying the c
owling to improve the air exit.=C2- Following are the highest temperature
s observed:=0A=C2-=0AOil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi=0ACHT: 400 F=0A
EGT: 1500 F=0A=C2-=0AThe change performed to the cowling made no differen
ce on the observed temperatures.=C2- I changed the cht senders for the ri
ght cylinders, and have no reason to suspect that the readings are not accu
rate.=0A=C2-=0AI create the following album, Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling Sys
tem, showing the complete installation.=0Ahttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/jab
iruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/list=0A=C2-=0AI'm running out of tr
icks, and at this point am seriously considering Liquid Cooled Heads.=C2-
Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers, based on my pictures, do you
have any other recommendation?=0A=C2-=0AThanks for your support during th
is long journey...=0A=C2-=0AJose Toro=0ARans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters,
SN 1905=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A_blank rel
=nofollow>www.aeroelectric.com=0A/" target=_blank rel=nofollow>www.bu
ildersbooks.com=0A=_blank rel=nofollow>www.homebuilthelp.com=0Ablank re
l=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2
-=0A=C2-=0Awww.aeroelectric.com=0Awww.buildersbooks.com=0Awww.homebuilt
help.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/contribution=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.mat
===========
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: CHT still high after cowling modification |
Martin:=0A-=0ARegarding the oil cooler, you are right.- Looking from th
e front, it is pretty close to the firewall on the right side, and-a few
inches-separated on the left side, and yes, air flow has-to turn 90 deg
ress to exit.=0A-=0AJose=0A=0AFrom: Martin Hone <aerobiz1@gmail.com>=0ATo
: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, November 21, 2011 5:04 P
M=0ASubject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling modificati
on=0A=0A=0AJose, =0A=0AYour engine is going to run hot simply because it is
tight. -However, during this critical phase, where you need to run it re
asonably hard to bed it in, you also need to manage the temps. -Looking a
t the pics again, how does the cooling air to the oil cooler exit the coole
r ? -Are the fins close to the firewall and does the air have to turn thr
ough 90 degrees to pass through ?=0A=0ARegardless of what jetting your engi
ne came with, if it is indeed running lean, then larger jets are required.
-I'd suggest stripping the carb and determining what you have. If the nee
dle jet is too small, often larger main jets won't have any effect. -Chec
k the float height, place a small washer under the needle ( unless you have
one with multiple grooves and you can adjust it this way) -and use about
2 sizes larger main jet. -If the temps come down, then you are in the ba
ll park....=0A=0AMarty=0A=0A=0AOn Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 5:59 AM, Jose M. Tor
o <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com> wrote:=0A=0AMartin:=0A>-=0A>The engine now has
4.8 hours, still in break in.- These readings were crusing at 2840 RPM.
- My needle jet is 2.76.- I don't know the size of the main jet, but it
is the same one that came with the engine back in January 2005.- I under
stand that this was before the economy needles.- Is it there a size of ma
in jet and needle jet that you may recommend, at least to start trial and e
rror?=0A>-=0A>Thanks!=0A>-=0A>Jose=0A>=0A>=0A>From: Martin Hone <aerobi
z1@gmail.com>=0A>To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Monday, Nove
mber 21, 2011 3:22 PM=0A>Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high aft
er cowling modification=0A>=0A>=0A>Hi Jose, =0A>=0A>=0A>Without taking meas
urements, from your pics I don't see any outstanding reason for your high t
emps.=0A>The high EGT's indicate to me that you are running lean and I woul
d address that first by checking float height, then use a larger needle jet
and larger main jet.-=0A>If you get your EGT's down, CHT's etc should fo
llow. -I figure your engine is still new and therefore tight, which doesn
't help. -Are those temp reading taken at full throttle or cruise ?=0A>
=0A>=0A>Martin=0A>=0A>=0A>On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:38 AM, Jose M. Toro <jo
se_m_toro@yahoo.com> wrote:=0A>=0A>Hi All:=0A>>=0A>>On saturday, I performe
d the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after modifying the cowling to
improve the air exit.- Following are the highest temperatures observed:
=0A>>=0A>>Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi=0A>>CHT: 400 F=0A>>EGT: 1500
F=0A>>-=0A>>The change performed to the cowling made no difference on th
e observed temperatures.- I changed the cht senders for the right cylinde
rs, and have no reason to suspect that the readings are not accurate.=0A>>
=0A>>I create the following album, Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System, showing
the complete installation.=0A>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines
/photos/album/884873074/pic/list=0A>>=0A>>I'm running out of tricks, and at
this point am seriously considering Liquid Cooled Heads.- Pete, Lynn, Jo
hn, Rob and the other listers, based on my pictures, do you have any other
recommendation?=0A>>=0A>>Thanks for your support during this long journey..
.=0A>>=0A>>Jose Toro=0A>>Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905=0A>>_bla
nk">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="
_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Lis
t tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A>=0A>_blank rel=nofollow>www.aeroelectric.com /" target=_blank rel
=nofollow>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank rel=nofollow>www.homebuilthel
p.com blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>=0A>
=0A>_blank">www.aeroelectric.com.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbook
s.com="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com_blank">http://www.matronics.co
m/contributionist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?
JabiruEngine-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronic
============
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: CHT still high after cowling modification |
Jose,
There's part of your answer. Air does not like turning 90 degrees, and in
fact, the incoming airflow to the cooler fins should not be more than about
8 degrees of being direct. Any more than 20 degrees and it will skip off
the fins. You need to ensure a nice direct path to the cooling fins and
sufficient space behind the cooler for the air to exit. Ideally into a low
pressure area, but you can make up a divergent chamber that goes from the
ear of the cooler to near the exit air at the bottom of the firewall.
For a start, get the cooler away from the firewall so air can get through
it, and possible mount it horizontally so the airflow is smoother....
Martin
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 8:42 AM, Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Martin:
>
> Regarding the oil cooler, you are right. Looking from the front, it is
> pretty close to the firewall on the right side, and a few inches separated
> on the left side, and yes, air flow has to turn 90 degress to exit.
>
> Jose
>
> *From:* Martin Hone <aerobiz1@gmail.com>
> *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, November 21, 2011 5:04 PM
> *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling
> modification
>
> Jose,
>
> Your engine is going to run hot simply because it is tight. However,
> during this critical phase, where you need to run it reasonably hard to bed
> it in, you also need to manage the temps. Looking at the pics again, how
> does the cooling air to the oil cooler exit the cooler ? Are the fins
> close to the firewall and does the air have to turn through 90 degrees to
> pass through ?
>
> Regardless of what jetting your engine came with, if it is indeed running
> lean, then larger jets are required. I'd suggest stripping the carb and
> determining what you have. If the needle jet is too small, often larger
> main jets won't have any effect. Check the float height, place a small
> washer under the needle ( unless you have one with multiple grooves and you
> can adjust it this way) and use about 2 sizes larger main jet. If the
> temps come down, then you are in the ball park....
>
> Marty
>
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 5:59 AM, Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> Martin:
>
> The engine now has 4.8 hours, still in break in. These readings were
> crusing at 2840 RPM. My needle jet is 2.76. I don't know the size of the
> main jet, but it is the same one that came with the engine back in January
> 2005. I understand that this was before the economy needles. Is it there
> a size of main jet and needle jet that you may recommend, at least to start
> trial and error?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jose
>
> *From:* Martin Hone <aerobiz1@gmail.com>
> *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, November 21, 2011 3:22 PM
> *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling
> modification
>
> Hi Jose,
>
> Without taking measurements, from your pics I don't see any outstanding
> reason for your high temps.
> The high EGT's indicate to me that you are running lean and I would
> address that first by checking float height, then use a larger needle jet
> and larger main jet.
> If you get your EGT's down, CHT's etc should follow. I figure your engine
> is still new and therefore tight, which doesn't help. Are those temp
> reading taken at full throttle or cruise ?
>
> Martin
>
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:38 AM, Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> Hi All:
>
> On saturday, I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after
> modifying the cowling to improve the air exit. Following are the highest
> temperatures observed:
>
> Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi
> CHT: 400 F
> EGT: 1500 F
>
> The change performed to the cowling made no difference on the observed
> temperatures. I changed the cht senders for the right cylinders, and have
> no reason to suspect that the readings are not accurate.
>
> I create the following album, *Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System*, showing
> the complete installation.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/list
>
> I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am seriously considering
> Liquid Cooled Heads. Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers, based on
> my pictures, do you have any other recommendation?
>
> Thanks for your support during this long journey...
>
> Jose Toro
> Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905
>
> *
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
> _blank rel=nofollow>www.aeroelectric.com
> /" target=_blank rel=nofollow>www.buildersbooks.com
> =_blank rel=nofollow>www.homebuilthelp.com
> blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
> _blank rel=nofollow>www.aeroelectric.com
> /" target=_blank rel=nofollow>www.buildersbooks.com
> =_blank rel=nofollow>www.homebuilthelp.com
> blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
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