---------------------------------------------------------- JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 11/22/11: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:04 AM - Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (jets size?) (Jose M. Toro) 2. 06:34 AM - Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (jets size?) (Rob Turk) 3. 06:40 AM - Jet Size (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net) 4. 06:59 AM - Re: Jet Size (Jose M. Toro) 5. 11:51 AM - Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (jets size?) (Martin Hone) 6. 12:26 PM - Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (jets size?) (Jose M. Toro) 7. 01:20 PM - Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (jets size?) (Martin Hone) 8. 01:40 PM - Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (dons701) 9. 02:31 PM - Re: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (Jose M. Toro) 10. 03:18 PM - Re: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (Mark Hubelbank) 11. 05:31 PM - Re: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (Jose M. Toro) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:36 AM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling modification (jets size?) All:=0A-=0AThe combination of main jet and needle jet is the next area th at I will "attack".- I know my needle jet is 2.76, and will find out the main jet's size on Friday.-=0A-=0AIn the mean time, I would like to kno w what combination of main jets and needle jets you are using, in order to have an idea of what jets I will need to order.=0A-=0AJose=0A=0AFrom: Mar tin Hone =0ATo: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com =0ASent : Monday, November 21, 2011 3:22 PM=0ASubject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT s till high after cowling modification=0A=0A=0AHi Jose, =0A=0AWithout taking measurements, from your pics I don't see any outstanding reason for your hi gh temps.=0AThe high EGT's indicate to me that you are running lean and I w ould address that first by checking float height, then use a larger needle jet and larger main jet.-=0AIf you get your EGT's down, CHT's etc should follow. -I figure your engine is still new and therefore tight, which doe sn't help. -Are those temp reading taken at full throttle or cruise ?=0A =0AMartin=0A=0A=0AOn Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:38 AM, Jose M. Toro wrote:=0A=0AHi All:=0A>=0A>On saturday, I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after modifying the cowling to improve the air exit.- Following are the highest temperatures observed:=0A>=0A>Oil te mp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi=0A>CHT: 400 F=0A>EGT: 1500 F=0A>-=0A>The c hange performed to the cowling made no difference on the observed temperatu res.- I changed the cht senders for the right cylinders, and have no reas on to suspect that the readings are not accurate.=0A>=0A>I create the follo wing album, Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System, showing the complete installat ion.=0A>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/ pic/list=0A>=0A>I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am seriously c onsidering Liquid Cooled Heads.- Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other list ers, based on my pictures, do you have any other recommendation?=0A>=0A>Tha nks for your support during this long journey...=0A>=0A>Jose Toro=0A>Rans S 6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905=0A>_blank">www.aeroelectric.com.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.co m_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributionist" target="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listtp://forums.matronic ch & Download, ============ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:38 AM PST US From: Rob Turk Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling modification (jets size?) Jose, Get JSB018-2 from the Jabiru site, it shows what jets should be installed. If you have the economy kit installed then your needle jet is too small. Standard is 290. That could well explain your hight EGT's. If you do not have the economy kit installed, then check on page 4 what the standard jets for your serial number are. Rob On 11/22/2011 3:00 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote: > All: > The combination of main jet and needle jet is the next area that I > will "attack". I know my needle jet is 2.76, and will find out the > main jet's size on Friday. > In the mean time, I would like to know what combination of main jets > and needle jets you are using, in order to have an idea of what jets I > will need to order. > Jose > > *From:* Martin Hone > *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, November 21, 2011 3:22 PM > *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling > modification > > Hi Jose, > > Without taking measurements, from your pics I don't see any > outstanding reason for your high temps. > The high EGT's indicate to me that you are running lean and I would > address that first by checking float height, then use a larger needle > jet and larger main jet. > If you get your EGT's down, CHT's etc should follow. I figure your > engine is still new and therefore tight, which doesn't help. Are > those temp reading taken at full throttle or cruise ? > > Martin > > On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:38 AM, Jose M. Toro > wrote: > > Hi All: > On saturday, I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 > after modifying the cowling to improve the air exit. Following > are the highest temperatures observed: > Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi > CHT: 400 F > EGT: 1500 F > The change performed to the cowling made no difference on the > observed temperatures. I changed the cht senders for the right > cylinders, and have no reason to suspect that the readings are not > accurate. > I create the following album, */Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System/*, > showing the complete installation. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/list > I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am seriously > considering Liquid Cooled Heads. Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the > other listers, based on my pictures, do you have any other > recommendation? > Thanks for your support during this long journey... > Jose Toro > Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905 > > * > > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com > .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > * > > _blank rel=nofollow>www.aeroelectric.com > /" target=_blank rel=nofollow>www.buildersbooks.com > =_blank rel=nofollow>www.homebuilthelp.com > blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:15 AM PST US From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Jet Size Jose, I have changed carb jet size so often I can do it in place on the engine in about 20 minutes. After many combinations I came up with a 260 main jet and a 285 needle jet. My CHT's are running 270 to 315 but there are a few throttle settings where they will climb higher. Bobby 3300 130hrs. Zodiac 601 XL "B" ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:37 AM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jet Size Thanks Bobby!=0A=0A=0AFrom: "BobbyPaulk@comcast.net" =0ATo: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Tuesday, November 22, 201 1 10:36 AM=0ASubject: JabiruEngine-List: Jet Size=0A=0A=0AJose,=0AI have ch anged carb jet size so often I can do it in place on the engine in about 20 minutes.- After many combinations I came up with a 260 main jet and a 28 5 needle jet. My CHT's are running 270 to 315 but there are a few throttle settings where they will climb higher. =0A=0ABobby=0A3300- 130hrs. =0AZod =============== ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:51:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling modification (jets size?) From: Martin Hone Jose, My experience is with the 3300. I would start by placing a very small washer under the point where the needle sits in the slide to raise it, and depending on what size main jet you presently have, I would go two sizes larger. ( Say if it was #165 I would go at least to #170 or #175) Once you have got the temps down and have bedded the engine in, then come back down as necessary... Make sure you check the float height too. Marty On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:00 AM, Jose M. Toro wrote: > All: > > The combination of main jet and needle jet is the next area that I will > "attack". I know my needle jet is 2.76, and will find out the main jet's > size on Friday. > > In the mean time, I would like to know what combination of main jets and > needle jets you are using, in order to have an idea of what jets I will > need to order. > > Jose > > *From:* Martin Hone > *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, November 21, 2011 3:22 PM > *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling > modification > > Hi Jose, > > Without taking measurements, from your pics I don't see any outstanding > reason for your high temps. > The high EGT's indicate to me that you are running lean and I would > address that first by checking float height, then use a larger needle jet > and larger main jet. > If you get your EGT's down, CHT's etc should follow. I figure your engine > is still new and therefore tight, which doesn't help. Are those temp > reading taken at full throttle or cruise ? > > Martin > > On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:38 AM, Jose M. Toro wrote: > > Hi All: > > On saturday, I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after > modifying the cowling to improve the air exit. Following are the highest > temperatures observed: > > Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi > CHT: 400 F > EGT: 1500 F > > The change performed to the cowling made no difference on the observed > temperatures. I changed the cht senders for the right cylinders, and have > no reason to suspect that the readings are not accurate. > > I create the following album, *Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System*, showing > the complete installation. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/list > > I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am seriously considering > Liquid Cooled Heads. Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers, based on > my pictures, do you have any other recommendation? > > Thanks for your support during this long journey... > > Jose Toro > Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905 > > * > > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com > .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > * > > _blank rel=nofollow>www.aeroelectric.com > /" target=_blank rel=nofollow>www.buildersbooks.com > =_blank rel=nofollow>www.homebuilthelp.com > blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:26:55 PM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling modification (jets size?) Marty:=0A-=0AI-will have to figure out how to install this small washer .- =0A-=0AIf my engine was configured as per Service Bulletin JSB 018-2 , my main jet should be 220.- I know for sure that my needle jet is 2.76. - Since the observed CHT and EGT are so high, seems to me like I should g o aggresive on both needles size-increase (at least two sizes each needle ).- My-constraint is that I can't get these needles locally, and will n eed to order two or three sizes of each needle in order to do the trial and error.=0A-=0AJose=0AFrom: Martin Hone =0ATo: jabirue ngine-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 3:47 PM=0ASubj ect: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling modification (jets size?)=0A=0A=0AJose, =0A=0AMy experience is with the 3300. -I would star t by placing a very small washer under the point where the needle sits in t he slide to raise it, and depending on what size main jet you presently hav e, I would go two sizes larger. ( Say if it was #165 I would go at least to #170 or #175) Once you have got the temps down and have bedded the engine in, then come back down as necessary...=0A=0AMake sure you check the float height too.=0A=0AMarty=0A=0A=0AOn Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:00 AM, Jose M. To ro wrote:=0A=0AAll:=0A>-=0A>The combination of ma in jet and needle jet is the next area that I will "attack".- I know my n eedle jet is 2.76, and will find out the main jet's size on Friday.-=0A> -=0A>In the mean time, I would like to know what combination of main jets and needle jets you are using, in order to have an idea of what jets I wil l need to order.=0A>-=0A>Jose=0A>=0A>=0A>From: Martin Hone =0A>To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Monday, November 21 , 2011 3:22 PM=0A>Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowl ing modification=0A>=0A>=0A>Hi Jose, =0A>=0A>=0A>Without taking measurement s, from your pics I don't see any outstanding reason for your high temps. =0A>The high EGT's indicate to me that you are running lean and I would add ress that first by checking float height, then use a larger needle jet and larger main jet.-=0A>If you get your EGT's down, CHT's etc should follow. -I figure your engine is still new and therefore tight, which doesn't he lp. -Are those temp reading taken at full throttle or cruise ?=0A>=0A>=0A >Martin=0A>=0A>=0A>On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:38 AM, Jose M. Toro wrote:=0A>=0A>Hi All:=0A>>=0A>>On saturday, I performed the t hird flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after modifying the cowling to improve the air exit.- Following are the highest temperatures observed:=0A>>=0A> >Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi=0A>>CHT: 400 F=0A>>EGT: 1500 F=0A>> -=0A>>The change performed to the cowling made no difference on the obser ved temperatures.- I changed the cht senders for the right cylinders, and have no reason to suspect that the readings are not accurate.=0A>>=0A>>I c reate the following album, Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System, showing the com plete installation.=0A>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/ album/884873074/pic/list=0A>>=0A>>I'm running out of tricks, and at this po int am seriously considering Liquid Cooled Heads.- Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers, based on my pictures, do you have any other recommen dation?=0A>>=0A>>Thanks for your support during this long journey...=0A>> =0A>>Jose Toro=0A>>Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905=0A>>_blank">ww w.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank ">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List tp:/ /forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>=0A >_blank rel=nofollow>www.aeroelectric.com /" target=_blank rel=nofoll ow>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank rel=nofollow>www.homebuilthelp.com bla nk rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>=0A>=0A>_blank" >www.aeroelectric.com.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com= "_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribut ionist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngin e-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contr ============ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:20:41 PM PST US Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling modification (jets size?) From: Martin Hone Jose, when you pull the top of the carb off to access the slide and remove the needle, chances are that yours will only have one groove for the clip, therefore no adjustment range. If there is more than one groove, move the clip to the bottom groove. Otherwise hunt around for a thin washer that will fit over the needle and no more than around a mm or say 0.040" and put it between the slide and the needle clip so that it effectively raised the position of the needle relative to the slide. A lot easier and also reversible than buying other needles at this stage. The main jet will require going bigger, but remember that these jets are ofifice sizes, not flow rates, so if your main jet is stamped with #260, it is actually 2.6mm. So you could buy a 2.7mm drill or reamer and do it yourself. Cheers Marty On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 6:24 AM, Jose M. Toro wrote: > Marty: > > I will have to figure out how to install this small washer. > > If my engine was configured as per Service Bulletin JSB 018-2, my main jet > should be 220. I know for sure that my needle jet is 2.76. Since the > observed CHT and EGT are so high, seems to me like I should go aggresive on > both needles size increase (at least two sizes each needle). My constraint > is that I can't get these needles locally, and will need to order two or > three sizes of each needle in order to do the trial and error. > > Jose > *From:* Martin Hone > *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 22, 2011 3:47 PM > *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling > modification (jets size?) > > Jose, > > My experience is with the 3300. I would start by placing a very small > washer under the point where the needle sits in the slide to raise it, and > depending on what size main jet you presently have, I would go two sizes > larger. ( Say if it was #165 I would go at least to #170 or #175) Once you > have got the temps down and have bedded the engine in, then come back down > as necessary... > > Make sure you check the float height too. > > Marty > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:00 AM, Jose M. Toro wrote: > > All: > > The combination of main jet and needle jet is the next area that I will > "attack". I know my needle jet is 2.76, and will find out the main jet's > size on Friday. > > In the mean time, I would like to know what combination of main jets and > needle jets you are using, in order to have an idea of what jets I will > need to order. > > Jose > > *From:* Martin Hone > *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, November 21, 2011 3:22 PM > *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling > modification > > Hi Jose, > > Without taking measurements, from your pics I don't see any outstanding > reason for your high temps. > The high EGT's indicate to me that you are running lean and I would > address that first by checking float height, then use a larger needle jet > and larger main jet. > If you get your EGT's down, CHT's etc should follow. I figure your engine > is still new and therefore tight, which doesn't help. Are those temp > reading taken at full throttle or cruise ? > > Martin > > On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:38 AM, Jose M. Toro wrote: > > Hi All: > > On saturday, I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after > modifying the cowling to improve the air exit. Following are the highest > temperatures observed: > > Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi > CHT: 400 F > EGT: 1500 F > > The change performed to the cowling made no difference on the observed > temperatures. I changed the cht senders for the right cylinders, and have > no reason to suspect that the readings are not accurate. > > I create the following album, *Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System*, showing > the complete installation. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/list > > I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am seriously considering > Liquid Cooled Heads. Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers, based on > my pictures, do you have any other recommendation? > > Thanks for your support during this long journey... > > Jose Toro > Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905 > > * > > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com > .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > * > > _blank rel=nofollow>www.aeroelectric.com > /" target=_blank rel=nofollow>www.buildersbooks.com > =_blank rel=nofollow>www.homebuilthelp.com > blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > * > > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com > .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > * > > _blank rel=nofollow>www.aeroelectric.com > /" target=_blank rel=nofollow>www.buildersbooks.com > =_blank rel=nofollow>www.homebuilthelp.com > blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:40:46 PM PST US Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification From: "dons701" You only have 27PSI oil press. at 2840RPM ?? That to me is scary! For what it's worth I run 285 needle jet, 245 main jet. This is a 2200 #2456 in a Zenith 701. After things are sorted out, change oil and filter. What air speeds are you cruising at?...DonB -------- Zenith 701 #76120 Jabiru 2200A #2456 95 hours Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358880#358880 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:31:01 PM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification Don:=0A-=0ACruise is 100-105 mph.- Flight was .5 hour.- Oil pressure drops gradually.- It flew at 31 psi for a while, oil temp continued incre asing, and then oil pressure dropped to 27.=0A-=0AJose=0A=0AFrom: dons701 =0ATo: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Tuesd ay, November 22, 2011 5:38 PM=0ASubject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: CHT still h igh after cowling modification=0A=0A--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by : "dons701" =0A=0AYou only have 27PSI oil press. at 28 40RPM ?? That to me is scary!=0AFor what it's worth I run 285 needle jet, 2 45 main jet. This is a 2200 #2456 in a Zenith 701. After things are sorted out, change oil and filter. What air speeds are you cruising at?...DonB.- =0A=0A--------=0AZenith 701 #76120=0AJabiru 2200A #2456- 95 hours=0ASens enich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Aht tp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358880#358880=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admi ==================== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:48 PM PST US From: Mark Hubelbank Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification Jose, Assuming you are measuring the pressure at the "gallery" not at the oil pump output as is often the case with Jabirus this is solvable. I also have a 3300 and until I changed the oil filter adapter plate and all the oil hoses I had the same low pressure. Now it sits at 40-45 PSI under all conditions. Personally, I think some of the Jabiru problems are caused by low oil pressure. It this is the pressure at the oil pump (I believe the top hole) then there is a real problem and should be fixed before further use as the gallery pressure may be below 20. -- Mark Hubelbank NorthEast Monitoring 2 Clock Tower Place Suite 555 Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA mhubel@nemon.com 978-443-3955 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:45 PM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification Mark:=0A=0AMy oil pressure is measured at the gallery.=0A=0AJose=0A=0A=0A__ ______________________________=0A From: Mark Hubelbank =0ATo: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 7:15 PM=0ASubject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: CHT still high after cowling =0A=0AJose,=0A- Assuming you are measuring the pressur e at the "gallery" not at the oil pump output as is often the case with Jab irus this is solvable.- I also have a 3300 and until I changed the oil fi lter adapter plate and all the oil hoses I had the same low pressure. Now i t sits at 40-45 PSI under all conditions. Personally, I think some of the J abiru problems are caused by low oil pressure.=0A- - It this is the pre ssure at the oil pump (I believe the top hole) then there is a real problem and should be fixed before further use as the gallery pressure may be belo w 20.=0A=0A=0A-- Mark Hubelbank=0ANorthEast Monitoring=0A2 Clock Tower Plac e=0ASuite 555=0AMaynard, MA, 01754 - USA=0Amhubel@nemon.com=0A978-443-3955 -=- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Drall = ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message jabiruengine-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/JabiruEngine-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/jabiruengine-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/jabiruengine-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.