Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:11 AM - Just Two Days Left - Still Way Behind... (Matt Dralle)
1. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (test flight without cowling?) (Pete Krotje)
2. 07:38 AM - Re: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (test flight without cowling?) (Jose M. Toro)
3. 01:45 PM - Fw: FW: Gliders - Spectacular Video at the end. (Dick Cleavinger)
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| Subject: | Just Two Days Left - Still Way Behind... |
Dear Listers,
There are just two more days left in this years List Fund Raiser. Over the last
few weeks I have received some really nice comments from members on what the
Lists have meant to them. I have included some of them below. Please read over
the comments and ponder on your own feelings about the Lists and the support
and camaraderie you have found here.
We are still way behind last year in terms of the number of contributions. I really
want to keep providing these services to the homebuilt community, but it
take resources. Since there's no advertising budget or deep pockets to keep
the operation a float, its solely your generosity during the Fund Raiser that
keeps things going. Please make a Contribution today.
If you've been putting off showing your support for the Lists, now is the time
to do it!
Make a contribution with a Credit Card or though PayPal at that Matronics Contribution
web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a check in the mail:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
==================== A Few List Member Comments =====================
I get a lot of useful information and satisfaction from belonging to
your groups. Somehow you foster a great sense of community without
the baggage that accompanies other lists.
Dave S.
We do appreciate you running the lists spam and advertising free.
Jeff P.
I am celebrating my first flight day and you and the lists deserve
a thanks since without it my build would have taken twice as long.
Chris L.
I enjoy the list. Have my morning coffee with it!
Buddy M.
Your lists are the best investment of my time and money, bar none,
when it comes to interfacing with my fellow amateur builders.
Owen B.
Keep it going!! Thanks for taking over.
Wallace J.
I enjoy the Pietenpol List a lot.
Malcolm Z.
Thanks for your great site! As a new CJ-6 owner, your web site is an
invaluable resource.
Ken B.
Great informational source.
Fred S.
Thanks for doing this!
Lance G.
Thank you for the service i do enjoy the many hours I use on line with
the banter/ serious technical items.
Noel G.
Thanks for the years of builder support.
Roy H.
Great forum!
Roger C.
Thank you VERY MUCH, Matt, for carrying on with this great service.
The "Europa" community really appreciates it. All the best, Svein - now
celebrating 10 years as a subscriber, I think!
Svein J.
Matt, I'm building a much nicer and safer airplane because of your efforts.
Robert D.
21 years for you 9 years for me on the Zenith lists. Could not imagine
building and flying without Matronics.
Brian U.
Thanks for ALL the hard work and time you put into maintaining these
forums. As an EAA Tech counselor I recommend them often.
Paul M.
This Pietenpol list is a huge part of the motivation that keeps me working
on my project. This has been a great place for meeting like minded folks
and getting help for the difficult parts.
Thomas S.
Thanks for the excellent service Matt.
Frank S.
Matt, I'm a Sonex building, but I have to say that the Piet group is without
a doubt the most interesting.
Ken M.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate the Piet List. This is one of my sanity
lifelines!
Daniel H.
Your site has provided us over the years with excellent connections to others
for advice. Good job!
Bob M.
Kolb List is my #1 source!
Henry V.
Matt, you do a great job with this site. I've been with it since the
beginning!
John M.
I am very grateful for all of your excellent work on the List.
Arthur L.
Thank you for the service you provide us all!
Nicholas C.
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (test |
flight without cowling?)
Yes, there are Kolbs and Titans and Rans S-12=99s flying with
uncowled pusher engine that cool just fine. I=99ve built three of
those Kolbs and about 20 Titans. But think of why they do! All those
engines sit on top of the wing (or just behind and above the wing). Air
moving over the top of the wing is moving faster as it flows over the
top of the wing and then this faster moving air dives under and around
the lower half of the engine. Remember Bernoulli=99s principle (I
don=99t know if I spelled that right) that speeding up the flow
lowers the pressure. By placing the engine just above the flow off the
wing the effect of higher pressure above and lower pressure below is
achieved without the use of a cowl.
One can take that Kolb, Titan or Rans and place a ballistic chute or oil
cooler just ahead of the engine that diverts the faster flow away from
the engine and temps will go up dramatically because the differential of
pressure between top and bottom is decreased. I=99ve seen many
examples of Titans with BRS VLS chutes in front of the engine that
exhibit higher than desirable CHTs. Those temps come down when chute is
removed.
Pete
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Ellery Batchelder Jr
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: CHT still high after cowling
modification (test flight without cowling?)
there are some Kolb Airplanes with Jabiru 2200 engines on them
and there not a coweled setup just for your information
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Krotje <pete@usjabiru.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: CHT still high after cowling
modification (test flight without cowling?)
The only way you can cool the cylinders is to get high pressure air
above and low pressure below the cylinders. The cowl design is
responsible for creating this difference. How will you create the
pressure differential without a cowl? The ram air ducts by themselves
will not do it as several customers have found out to their dismay after
achieving 500 degree CHT=99s in the initial climb out on a short
flight. No worries, though. New heads are available to replace the
warped ones.
Pete
From: <mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com>
owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [
<mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com?>
mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jose
M. Toro
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: CHT still high after cowling
modification (test flight without cowling?)
I'm considering to do a short flight tomorrow without cowling to verify
the modified needles (main jet: 2.20-> 2.49, needle jet: 2.76-> 2.87)
and to try to proof my theory about insufficient air going into the
cooling baffels. Is it there any reason why I should not fly without
the cowling? I was checking the Jabiru powered X-Airs (tractor without
cowling), and they use the same kind of cooling baffle that I use.
Jose
Rans S6ES/Jab 2200
_____
From: Jose M. Toro < <mailto:jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 9:51 PM
Subject: Fw: JabiruEngine-List: Re: CHT still high after cowling
modification (jets size?)
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: dons701 < <mailto:burdon1@comcast.net> burdon1@comcast.net>
jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 11:18 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: CHT still high after cowling
modification (jets size?)
<mailto:burdon1@comcast.net> burdon1@comcast.net>
Hi Jose. The purpose of the holes is to bleed some cooling air over the
front crank bearing, but you can duct tape them closed as an experiment.
I found gaps around the bottom perimeter of my ducts where air could
leak and not flow through the fins so I filled these gaps with strips of
high temp foam silicone rubber glued to the duct. Then, you can remove
the tape from the holes.
I remember your peak head temp being 400F. If true, that alone can raise
oil temperature. But, having peak egt's at 1500F tends to conduct to the
head and it's thermocouple.....Which increases oil temps.
Did you pull any spark plugs for color check??
It is easy to change your main jet, it requires an 8mm box wrench I
believe and be sure to have a good magnifying glass handy to see the jet
number! I would not be afraid of a #240 or a #245 main jet, even with
the #276 needle jet and it's "matching" needle as supplied with your
carb. Make sure there is a brass flat washer behind the jet. It's there
to prevent cavitation of air, (whirlpool) into fuel around jet body,
supposedly. Fuel level should be close to 12mm from the top when bowl is
carefully lowered, (not easy without spilling).
Questions;
What is your peak RPM and EGT, full throttle, climb out?
What is your EGT at cruise RPM, part throttle at say around 2800RPM?
What type of temperature measurement system are you using? EIS? Single
analog, digital? Individual cylinder capability? Or group measurement?
My thoughts are, get full throttle EGT's to 1200F to 1225F.
Cruise EGT's, if around 2800 or so, around 1325F.
Once you get these temps under control, the demand being placed on your
"cooling systems" will be greatly reduced.
Hope this helps....DonB
--------
Zenith 701 #76120
Jabiru 2200A #2456 95 hours
Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop
Read this topic online here:
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewt> http://forums.matronics.com/viewt *
AeroElectric
http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Jabi
ruEngine-List">http://www. <http://forums.matronics.com/>
http://forums.matronics.com href="
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp:/www.matronics.com/contr
ibution>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion ===========
_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ist"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
www.aeroelectric.com
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www.homebuilthelp.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (test |
flight without cowling?)
Pete:=0A=C2-=0AThanks for this information!=0A=C2-=0AJose=0A=0AFrom: Pe
te Krotje <pete@usjabiru.com>=0ATo: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com =0ASent
: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 10:43 AM=0ASubject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re:
CHT still high after cowling modification (test flight without cowling?)
=0A=0A=0AYes, there are Kolbs and Titans and Rans S-12=99s flying wit
h uncowled pusher engine that cool just fine.=C2- I=99ve built thre
e of those Kolbs and about 20 Titans.=C2- But think of why they do!=C2-
All those engines sit on top of the wing (or just behind and above the win
g).=C2- Air moving over the top of the wing is moving faster as it flows
over the top of the wing and then this faster moving air dives under and ar
ound the lower half of the engine.=C2- Remember Bernoulli=99s princ
iple (I don=99t know if I spelled that right) that speeding up the fl
ow lowers the pressure. By placing the engine just above the flow off the w
ing the effect of higher pressure above and lower pressure below is achieve
d without the use of a cowl.=0A=C2-=0AOne can take that Kolb, Titan or Ra
ns and place a ballistic chute or oil cooler just ahead of the engine that
diverts the faster flow away from the engine and temps will go up dramatica
lly because the differential of pressure between top and bottom is decrease
d.=C2- I=99ve seen many examples of Titans with BRS VLS chutes in f
ront of the engine that exhibit higher than desirable CHTs.=C2- Those tem
ps come down when chute is removed.=0A=C2-=0APete=0A=C2-=0AFrom:owner-j
abiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-serve
r@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ellery Batchelder Jr=0ASent: Monday, November
28, 2011 5:42 PM=0ATo: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Jabi
ruEngine-List: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (test flight w
ithout cowling?)=0A=C2-=0Athere are some Kolb Airplanes with Jabiru 2200
engines on them =0Aand there not a coweled setup just for your information
=0AEllery Batchelder Jr.=0A=C2-=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Pete
Krotje <pete@usjabiru.com>=0ATo: jabiruengine-list <jabiruengine-list@matr
onics.com>=0ASent: Mon, Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am=0ASubject: RE: JabiruEngine-L
ist: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (test flight without cow
ling?)=0AThe only way you can cool the cylinders is to get high pressure ai
r above and low pressure below the cylinders.=C2- The cowl design is resp
onsible for creating this difference.=C2- How will you create the pressur
e differential without a cowl?=C2- The ram air ducts by themselves will n
ot do it as several customers have found out to their dismay after achievin
g 500 degree CHT=99s in the initial climb out on a short flight.=C2
- No worries, though.=C2- New heads are available to replace the warped
ones.=0A=C2-=0APete=0A=C2-=0AFrom:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matro
nics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jose M. Toro=0ASent: Friday, November 25, 2011 7:36 PM=0ATo: jabiruengines
list=0ASubject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: CHT still high after cowling mo
dification (test flight without cowling?)=0A=C2-=0AI'm considering to do
a short flight tomorrow without cowling to verify the modified needles (mai
n jet: 2.20-> 2.49, needle jet: 2.76-> 2.87) and to try to proof my theory
about insufficient air going into the cooling baffels. =C2-Is it there an
y reason why I should not fly without the cowling? =C2-I was checking the
Jabiru powered X-Airs (tractor without cowling), and they use the same kin
d of cooling baffle that I use.=0A=C2-=0AJose=0ARans S6ES/Jab 2200=0AFrom
:Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>=0ATo: Jose Toro <jose_m_toro@yahoo.co
m> =0ASent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 9:51 PM=0ASubject: Fw: JabiruEngine
-List: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification (jets size?)=0A=C2-
=0A----- Forwarded Message -----=0AFrom: dons701 <burdon1@comcast.net>=0ATo
: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 11:1
8 AM=0ASubject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: CHT still high after cowling modific
<burdon1@comcast.net>=0A=0AHi Jose.=C2- The purpose of the holes is to bl
eed some cooling air over the front crank bearing, but you can duct tape th
em closed as an experiment. I found gaps around the bottom perimeter of my
ducts where air could leak and not flow through the fins so I filled these
gaps with strips of high temp foam silicone rubber glued to the duct. Then,
you can remove the tape from the holes. =0AI remember your peak head temp
being 400F. If true, that alone can raise oil temperature. But, having peak
egt's at 1500F tends to conduct to the head and it's thermocouple.....Whic
h increases oil temps.=0ADid you pull any spark plugs for color check??=0A
=C2- It is easy to change your main jet, it requires an 8mm box wrench I
believe and be sure to have a good magnifying glass handy to see the jet nu
mber! I would not be afraid of a #240 or a #245 main jet, even with the #27
6 needle jet and it's "matching" needle as supplied with your carb. Make su
re there is a brass flat washer behind the jet. It's there to prevent cavit
ation of air, (whirlpool) into fuel around jet body, supposedly. Fuel level
should be close to 12mm from the top when bowl is carefully lowered, (not
easy without spilling).=0AQuestions;=0AWhat is your peak RPM and EGT, full
throttle, climb out?=0AWhat is your EGT at cruise RPM, part throttle at say
around 2800RPM?=0AWhat type of temperature measurement system are you usin
g? EIS? Single analog, digital? Individual cylinder capability? Or group me
asurement?=0AMy thoughts are, get full throttle EGT's to 1200F to 1225F.=0A
Cruise EGT's, if around 2800 or so, around 1325F.=0AOnce you get these temp
s under control, the demand being placed on your "cooling systems" will be
greatly reduced.=0A=C2- Hope this helps....DonB=0A=0A--------=0AZenith 70
1 #76120=0AJabiru 2200A #2456=C2- 95 hours=0ASensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.co
m/viewt * AeroElectric http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con
tribution =========== =0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A_blank>www
.aeroelectric.com=0A/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com=0A=_blank>ww
w.homebuilthelp.com=0Ablank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0Aist" ta
rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List=0Ap://fo
rums.matronics.com=0Ablank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A=C2-
=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0Awww.aeroelectric.com=0Awww.buildersbooks.com=0Awww.hom
ebuilthelp.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/contribution=0Ahttp://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://w
===========
Message 3
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| Subject: | Fwd: FW: Gliders - Spectacular Video at the end. |
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Lee Kilbourn <kilbourn@ccim.net>
Subject: FW: Gliders - Spectacular Video at the end.
*Look at stills, then watch the video.*****
*
The language you hear is the one spoken in the German speaking part of
Switzerland .*****
*
These glider pilots are unbelievable!
No power and flying like the Blue Angels!* *Click Here and view the stills
followed by the
video.<http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1265891/Hold-think-youre-going-Skydiver-grabs-gliders-tail-fin-fly-2-100-metres-100mph.html>
*****
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