Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:28 AM - Re: Hydraulic or solid.... (ednan1@aol.com)
2. 02:28 AM - Re: Hydraulic or solid.... (ednan1@aol.com)
3. 02:29 AM - Re: Hydraulic or solid.... (ednan1@aol.com)
4. 02:29 AM - Re: Hydraulic or solid.... (ednan1@aol.com)
5. 02:29 AM - Re: Hydraulic or solid.... (ednan1@aol.com)
6. 02:30 AM - Re: Hydraulic or solid.... (ednan1@aol.com)
7. 02:32 AM - Re: Hydraulic or solid.... (ednan1@aol.com)
8. 02:48 AM - Re: Hydraulic or solid.... (Rob Turk)
9. 03:45 AM - Re: Hydraulic or solid.... (ednan1@aol.com)
10. 03:50 AM - Re: Hydraulic or solid.... (James, Clive R)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic or solid.... |
I'm not interested inthe jabiruengine anymore. tks
-----Original Message-----
From: Tex Mantell <wb2ssj@rochester.rr.com>
Sent: Tue, Feb 21, 2012 7:30 pm
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Hydraulic or solid....
I have been on this site from the start, and have to laugh
at all the piss and moaning about the Jabiru engines. I have a 2200 4 cyl.
jab (bought in 1995) in my Kitfox and a 3300 6 cyl. in my Lightning. The o
nly thing wrong with either one is you have to change the oil every 25 or 3
5 hours. I have helped 6 owners in my area that had problems with the Jabir
u and each was due to improper installation. If you want problems just read
each issue of sport aviation about other engines. Everybody I talk to call
the sport aviation magazine the "monthly rotax service bulletin".
PS. The one problem with the 3300 in my Lightning is that its to dam fast.
Tex
-----
Original Message -----
From: Martin Hone
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Hydraulic or solid....
Great report Nick. Thanks for posting. It is good to see that it is not al
l 'doom and gloom.'
Nevertheless, there is far too many factory-built, and kit-built to factory
spec., aircraft that are having issues that aren't due to too rich mixture
or over-propping.
Cheers
Marty
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 9:11 AM, Nick Otterback <nick@flylightning.net> wro
te:
We have been installing the 3300s in our Lightning Design now since 2006. T
he first aircraft had solid lifter engines, all since the introduction of t
he hydraulic lifter have been fitted with that. Many aircraft have several
hundred hours on them with out exhibiting these problems being discussed. E
ven a few nearing 1000hours.
We have not seen increased oil temperatures, or oil consumption, or lack of
horsepower. The aircraft flying today are swinging more aggressive props
than we ever have, and still pulling the RPM that Jabiru requires. If the
engine were lacking in power or torque I would think that a less aggressive
prop would be needed, or at least less REVS noted in given configurations,
that is just not that case.
Jabiru USA has a very nice service center. Recently a 4 cylinder hydraulic
lifter engine came in for the 1000 hour top end. No prior work has been don
e to the engine. If the valves are not opening and closing as they should y
ou would expect to see this in the combustion chamber right? Again not the
case for this engine, certainly not a babied one at that, it came out of a
flight school. Now of course it was on a Jabiru airplane that has a proper
cowling design. The engine is turning the correct prop to get the correct
REVS, which in turn keeps the engine from lugging along and stressing it.
I guess what I see are improper installation and operation on a regular bas
is that in turn causes problems for the engine. Either cowl design and ove
rheating, prop load from the guy wanting is plane to go faster than it real
ly can, or expecting an internal combusting engine to do something special
with the fuel you give it. If you over prop the engine or let it run rich f
or many hours you cause a lot of problems with the valve train and combusti
ng chambers. The opposite is true when you get that great fuel economy you
might boast about.
I don=99t speak from hear say or theories on what I think should happ
en. This is from many years of experience with the engine, operation, rebu
ilds, and general maintenance. Many of the junk parts we collect are attri
buted to one of the above mentioned problems. IF you dig into what happened
you usually will get the rest of the story and find it was not in-fact the
engines fault by design but the end user.
Just my experiences with a wide variety of Jabiru Installations, Proper and
otherwise.
Nick Otterback
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengi
ne-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Krotje
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:13 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Hydraulic or solid....
Sort of like foisting water cooled heads unto an unsuspecting public and as
suring that they will go to TBO when there is no evidence to support that.
Pete
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengi
ne-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Martin Hone
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Hydraulic or solid....
All good points, but the biggest mistake Jabiru made was foisting the engin
e onto an unsuspecting market when it hadn't received adequate testing. Can
you imagine what their reputation would be like if it had powered a motor
car or motorcycle ?
Marty
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:41 AM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
The short answer is they thought they were ready to make their engine behav
e like a Lycoming or Continental....but history has shown they weren't read
y. They wanted what the big boys had...simple maintenance, but the rest of
the engine got in the way. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: flying with 1229 hrs... (since 3-27-2006)
On Feb 19, 2012, at 5:15 PM, James, Clive R wrote:
2 - Positive Valve Opening. Even at lower revs a hydraulically operated val
ve suffers from a =9Csoft and soggy=9D opening operation. By r
eplacing this with a positive mechanical lift, a more precise motion is ach
ieved. This leads to a faster change in manifold vacuum, greater gas speed
and ...more power!
3 - Predictable Operation. Hydraulic lifters are subjected to large and fre
quent variations in oil pressure and temperature. Solid lifters are a known
quantity that simplify valve operation and remove such variables.
4 - Weight and friction reduction. A solid lifter is 10% lighter than it's
hydraulic counterpart, and given the overall weight of CVH valve train, thi
s is an important bonus. Any loss of weight in this area will help with eng
ine efficiency and life expectancy. Also, a hydraulic lifter exerts a const
ant pressure to the total circumference of each lobe base circle resulting
in a certain amount of drag. A solid lifter does not contact the camshaft b
ase circle, so internal friction is reduced.
Remind me why they changed them?
========== _-www.matronics.com/contribution====
==
-
ine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine
-List
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
e -
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blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.ma
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ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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-= - The JabiruEngine-List Email Forum -
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic or solid.... |
I'm not interested in the jabiruengine anymore. tks
-----Original Message-----
From: Kayberg <Kayberg@aol.com>
Sent: Tue, Feb 21, 2012 7:55 pm
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Hydraulic or solid....
One of the issues of aviation that some folks have trouble understanding is
the sheer differences in the production volumes between automotive and avi
ation. Auto engines are tested in volume and built in the millions. And t
hey still have bad models, many of which are simply abandoned. The same is
true for motorcycles. Adequate testing? Even the Lycoming and Continenta
l engines which were basically designed in the 1930's continue to have prob
lems.
One of the clues should be the hand-made, CNC machined, composition of the
Jab. Not even designed to be mass-produced. The market for anything avi
ation is frightfully small compared to cars and motorcycles. It will be in
teresting to see how some of the newcomers to the small plane market fare c
onsidering the increased complexity of fuel injection, electronic ignition,
liquid cooling, etc.
Thankfully Jabiru has been very wise in not jumping to improve the engine b
y adding complexity and cost. I have had both the solid lifter and hydraul
ic lifter 2200's. Adjusting the valves was a nuisance. Anyone who has to
rn down engines in some variety will recognize just how good the design of
the Jab is. Frankly, even if you have to overhaul the heads every 500 hou
rs, it is still a bargain.
Doug Koenigsberg
In a message dated 2/21/2012 3:35:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, aerobiz1@g
mail.com writes:
All good points, but the biggest mistake Jabiru made was foisting the engin
e onto an unsuspecting market when it hadn't received adequate testing. Can
you imagine what their reputation would be like if it had powered a motor
car or motorcycle ?
Marty
-= - The JabiruEngine-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
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-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
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-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic or solid.... |
I'm not interested in the jabiruengine anymore. tks
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Hone <aerobiz1@gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Feb 21, 2012 6:27 pm
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Hydraulic or solid....
Great report Nick. Thanks for posting. It is good to see that it is not al
l 'doom and gloom.'
Nevertheless, there is far too many factory-built, and kit-built to factory
spec., aircraft that are having issues that aren't due to too rich mixture
or over-propping.
Cheers
Marty
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 9:11 AM, Nick Otterback <nick@flylightning.net> wro
te:
We have been installing the 3300s in our Lightning Design now since 2006. T
he first aircraft had solid lifter engines, all since the introduction of t
he hydraulic lifter have been fitted with that. Many aircraft have several
hundred hours on them with out exhibiting these problems being discussed. E
ven a few nearing 1000hours.
We have not seen increased oil temperatures, or oil consumption, or lack of
horsepower. The aircraft flying today are swinging more aggressive props
than we ever have, and still pulling the RPM that Jabiru requires. If the
engine were lacking in power or torque I would think that a less aggressive
prop would be needed, or at least less REVS noted in given configurations,
that is just not that case.
Jabiru USA has a very nice service center. Recently a 4 cylinder hydraulic
lifter engine came in for the 1000 hour top end. No prior work has been don
e to the engine. If the valves are not opening and closing as they should y
ou would expect to see this in the combustion chamber right? Again not the
case for this engine, certainly not a babied one at that, it came out of a
flight school. Now of course it was on a Jabiru airplane that has a proper
cowling design. The engine is turning the correct prop to get the correct
REVS, which in turn keeps the engine from lugging along and stressing it.
I guess what I see are improper installation and operation on a regular bas
is that in turn causes problems for the engine. Either cowl design and ove
rheating, prop load from the guy wanting is plane to go faster than it real
ly can, or expecting an internal combusting engine to do something special
with the fuel you give it. If you over prop the engine or let it run rich f
or many hours you cause a lot of problems with the valve train and combusti
ng chambers. The opposite is true when you get that great fuel economy you
might boast about.
I don=99t speak from hear say or theories on what I think should happ
en. This is from many years of experience with the engine, operation, rebu
ilds, and general maintenance. Many of the junk parts we collect are attri
buted to one of the above mentioned problems. IF you dig into what happened
you usually will get the rest of the story and find it was not in-fact the
engines fault by design but the end user.
Just my experiences with a wide variety of Jabiru Installations, Proper and
otherwise.
Nick Otterback
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengi
ne-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Krotje
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:13 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Hydraulic or solid....
Sort of like foisting water cooled heads unto an unsuspecting public and as
suring that they will go to TBO when there is no evidence to support that.
Pete
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengi
ne-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Martin Hone
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Hydraulic or solid....
All good points, but the biggest mistake Jabiru made was foisting the engin
e onto an unsuspecting market when it hadn't received adequate testing. Can
you imagine what their reputation would be like if it had powered a motor
car or motorcycle ?
Marty
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:41 AM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
The short answer is they thought they were ready to make their engine behav
e like a Lycoming or Continental....but history has shown they weren't read
y. They wanted what the big boys had...simple maintenance, but the rest of
the engine got in the way. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: flying with 1229 hrs... (since 3-27-2006)
On Feb 19, 2012, at 5:15 PM, James, Clive R wrote:
2 - Positive Valve Opening. Even at lower revs a hydraulically operated val
ve suffers from a =9Csoft and soggy=9D opening operation. By r
eplacing this with a positive mechanical lift, a more precise motion is ach
ieved. This leads to a faster change in manifold vacuum, greater gas speed
and ...more power!
3 - Predictable Operation. Hydraulic lifters are subjected to large and fre
quent variations in oil pressure and temperature. Solid lifters are a known
quantity that simplify valve operation and remove such variables.
4 - Weight and friction reduction. A solid lifter is 10% lighter than it's
hydraulic counterpart, and given the overall weight of CVH valve train, thi
s is an important bonus. Any loss of weight in this area will help with eng
ine efficiency and life expectancy. Also, a hydraulic lifter exerts a const
ant pressure to the total circumference of each lobe base circle resulting
in a certain amount of drag. A solid lifter does not contact the camshaft b
ase circle, so internal friction is reduced.
Remind me why they changed them?
========== _-www.matronics.com/contribution====
==
-
ine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine
-List
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
e -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-= - The JabiruEngine-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic or solid.... |
I'm not interested in the jabiruengine anymore. tks
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Otterback <nick@flylightning.net>
Sent: Tue, Feb 21, 2012 6:12 pm
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Hydraulic or solid....
We have been installing the 3300s in our Lightning Design now since 2006. T
he first aircraft had solid lifter engines, all since the introduction of t
he hydraulic lifter have been fitted with that. Many aircraft have several
hundred hours on them with out exhibiting these problems being discussed. E
ven a few nearing 1000hours.
We have not seen increased oil temperatures, or oil consumption, or lack of
horsepower. The aircraft flying today are swinging more aggressive props
than we ever have, and still pulling the RPM that Jabiru requires. If the
engine were lacking in power or torque I would think that a less aggressive
prop would be needed, or at least less REVS noted in given configurations,
that is just not that case.
Jabiru USA has a very nice service center. Recently a 4 cylinder hydraulic
lifter engine came in for the 1000 hour top end. No prior work has been don
e to the engine. If the valves are not opening and closing as they should y
ou would expect to see this in the combustion chamber right? Again not the
case for this engine, certainly not a babied one at that, it came out of a
flight school. Now of course it was on a Jabiru airplane that has a proper
cowling design. The engine is turning the correct prop to get the correct
REVS, which in turn keeps the engine from lugging along and stressing it.
I guess what I see are improper installation and operation on a regular bas
is that in turn causes problems for the engine. Either cowl design and ove
rheating, prop load from the guy wanting is plane to go faster than it real
ly can, or expecting an internal combusting engine to do something special
with the fuel you give it. If you over prop the engine or let it run rich f
or many hours you cause a lot of problems with the valve train and combusti
ng chambers. The opposite is true when you get that great fuel economy you
might boast about.
I don=99t speak from hear say or theories on what I think should happ
en. This is from many years of experience with the engine, operation, rebu
ilds, and general maintenance. Many of the junk parts we collect are attri
buted to one of the above mentioned problems. IF you dig into what happened
you usually will get the rest of the story and find it was not in-fact the
engines fault by design but the end user.
Just my experiences with a wide variety of Jabiru Installations, Proper and
otherwise.
Nick Otterback
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengi
ne-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Krotje
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:13 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Hydraulic or solid....
Sort of like foisting water cooled heads unto an unsuspecting public and as
suring that they will go to TBO when there is no evidence to support that.
Pete
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengi
ne-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Martin Hone
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Hydraulic or solid....
All good points, but the biggest mistake Jabiru made was foisting the engin
e onto an unsuspecting market when it hadn't received adequate testing. Can
you imagine what their reputation would be like if it had powered a motor
car or motorcycle ?
Marty
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:41 AM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
The short answer is they thought they were ready to make their engine behav
e like a Lycoming or Continental....but history has shown they weren't read
y. They wanted what the big boys had...simple maintenance, but the rest of
the engine got in the way. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: flying with 1229 hrs... (since 3-27-2006)
On Feb 19, 2012, at 5:15 PM, James, Clive R wrote:
2 - Positive Valve Opening. Even at lower revs a hydraulically operated val
ve suffers from a =9Csoft and soggy=9D opening operation. By r
eplacing this with a positive mechanical lift, a more precise motion is ach
ieved. This leads to a faster change in manifold vacuum, greater gas speed
and ...more power!
3 - Predictable Operation. Hydraulic lifters are subjected to large and fre
quent variations in oil pressure and temperature. Solid lifters are a known
quantity that simplify valve operation and remove such variables.
4 - Weight and friction reduction. A solid lifter is 10% lighter than it's
hydraulic counterpart, and given the overall weight of CVH valve train, thi
s is an important bonus. Any loss of weight in this area will help with eng
ine efficiency and life expectancy. Also, a hydraulic lifter exerts a const
ant pressure to the total circumference of each lobe base circle resulting
in a certain amount of drag. A solid lifter does not contact the camshaft b
ase circle, so internal friction is reduced.
Remind me why they changed them?
========== _-www.matronics.com/contribution====
==
-
ine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine
-List
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
e -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-= - The JabiruEngine-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic or solid.... |
I'm not interested in the jabiruengine anymore. tks
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Hone <aerobiz1@gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Feb 21, 2012 5:38 pm
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Hydraulic or solid....
Hi Pete,
That's a fair comment, except that a lot more engineering and research went
into the LC heads than ever went into the original aircooled heads, or sin
ce .....
But I don't wish to get into a slanging match. I just wish that Jab will g
et to the point that it lives up to its promise,
Cheers
Marty
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Pete Krotje <pete@usjabiru.com> wrote:
Sort of like foisting water cooled heads unto an unsuspecting public and as
suring that they will go to TBO when there is no evidence to support that.
Pete
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengi
ne-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Martin Hone
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Hydraulic or solid....
All good points, but the biggest mistake Jabiru made was foisting the engin
e onto an unsuspecting market when it hadn't received adequate testing. Can
you imagine what their reputation would be like if it had powered a motor
car or motorcycle ?
Marty
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:41 AM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
The short answer is they thought they were ready to make their engine behav
e like a Lycoming or Continental....but history has shown they weren't read
y. They wanted what the big boys had...simple maintenance, but the rest of
the engine got in the way. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: flying with 1229 hrs... (since 3-27-2006)
On Feb 19, 2012, at 5:15 PM, James, Clive R wrote:
2 - Positive Valve Opening. Even at lower revs a hydraulically operated val
ve suffers from a =9Csoft and soggy=9D opening operation. By r
eplacing this with a positive mechanical lift, a more precise motion is ach
ieved. This leads to a faster change in manifold vacuum, greater gas speed
and ...more power!
3 - Predictable Operation. Hydraulic lifters are subjected to large and fre
quent variations in oil pressure and temperature. Solid lifters are a known
quantity that simplify valve operation and remove such variables.
4 - Weight and friction reduction. A solid lifter is 10% lighter than it's
hydraulic counterpart, and given the overall weight of CVH valve train, thi
s is an important bonus. Any loss of weight in this area will help with eng
ine efficiency and life expectancy. Also, a hydraulic lifter exerts a const
ant pressure to the total circumference of each lobe base circle resulting
in a certain amount of drag. A solid lifter does not contact the camshaft b
ase circle, so internal friction is reduced.
Remind me why they changed them?
========== _-www.matronics.com/contribution====
==
-
ine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine
-List
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
e -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-= - The JabiruEngine-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic or solid.... |
I'm not interested in he jabiruengine anymore. tks
-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Krotje <pete@usjabiru.com>
Sent: Tue, Feb 21, 2012 5:14 pm
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Hydraulic or solid....
Sort of like foisting water cooled heads unto an unsuspecting public and as
suring that they will go to TBO when there is no evidence to support that.
Pete
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengi
ne-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Martin Hone
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Hydraulic or solid....
All good points, but the biggest mistake Jabiru made was foisting the engin
e onto an unsuspecting market when it hadn't received adequate testing. Can
you imagine what their reputation would be like if it had powered a motor
car or motorcycle ?
Marty
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:41 AM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
The short answer is they thought they were ready to make their engine behav
e like a Lycoming or Continental....but history has shown they weren't read
y. They wanted what the big boys had...simple maintenance, but the rest of
the engine got in the way. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: flying with 1229 hrs... (since 3-27-2006)
On Feb 19, 2012, at 5:15 PM, James, Clive R wrote:
2 - Positive Valve Opening. Even at lower revs a hydraulically operated val
ve suffers from a =9Csoft and soggy=9D opening operation. By r
eplacing this with a positive mechanical lift, a more precise motion is ach
ieved. This leads to a faster change in manifold vacuum, greater gas speed
and ...more power!
3 - Predictable Operation. Hydraulic lifters are subjected to large and fre
quent variations in oil pressure and temperature. Solid lifters are a known
quantity that simplify valve operation and remove such variables.
4 - Weight and friction reduction. A solid lifter is 10% lighter than it's
hydraulic counterpart, and given the overall weight of CVH valve train, thi
s is an important bonus. Any loss of weight in this area will help with eng
ine efficiency and life expectancy. Also, a hydraulic lifter exerts a const
ant pressure to the total circumference of each lobe base circle resulting
in a certain amount of drag. A solid lifter does not contact the camshaft b
ase circle, so internal friction is reduced.
Remind me why they changed them?
========== _-www.matronics.com/contribution====
==
-
ine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine
-List
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
e -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-= - The JabiruEngine-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic or solid.... |
I'm not interested in the jabiruengine anymore. tks
-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Tue, Feb 21, 2012 3:51 pm
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Hydraulic or solid....
I'm guessing that their reputation would be in the dumpster, due to
he greater number of people who would have bought one (motorcycle or
ar/truck) and ended up along the edge of the road.
Lynn
n Feb 21, 2012, at 3:33 PM, Martin Hone wrote:
> All good points, but the biggest mistake Jabiru made was foisting
the engine onto an unsuspecting market when it hadn't received
adequate testing. Can you imagine what their reputation would be
like if it had powered a motor car or motorcycle ?
Marty
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:41 AM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
wrote:
<lynnmatt@jps.net>
The short answer is they thought they were ready to make their
engine behave like a Lycoming or Continental....but history has
shown they weren't ready. They wanted what the big boys
had...simple maintenance, but the rest of the engine got in the
way. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: flying with 1229 hrs... (since 3-27-2006)
On Feb 19, 2012, at 5:15 PM, James, Clive R wrote:
2 - Positive Valve Opening. Even at lower revs a hydraulically
operated valve suffers from a =9Csoft and soggy=9D opening op
eration.
By replacing this with a positive mechanical lift, a more precise
motion is achieved. This leads to a faster change in manifold
vacuum, greater gas speed and ...more power!
3 - Predictable Operation. Hydraulic lifters are subjected to large
and frequent variations in oil pressure and temperature. Solid
lifters are a known quantity that simplify valve operation and
remove such variables.
4 - Weight and friction reduction. A solid lifter is 10% lighter
than it's hydraulic counterpart, and given the overall weight of
CVH valve train, this is an important bonus. Any loss of weight in
this area will help with engine efficiency and life expectancy.
Also, a hydraulic lifter exerts a constant pressure to the total
circumference of each lobe base circle resulting in a certain
amount of drag. A solid lifter does not contact the camshaft base
circle, so internal friction is reduced.
Remind me why they changed them?
========================
=========== _-www.matronics.com/
contribution====================
===========
========================
===========
-
ine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?
JabiruEngine-List
========================
===========
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
========================
===========
e -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
===========
========================
-= - The JabiruEngine-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic or solid.... |
Then you need to unsubscribe from this list. You need to do this
yourself, just like you subscribed yourself. No-one here can do that for
you.
Rob
On 2/22/2012 11:31 AM, ednan1@aol.com wrote:
> I'm not interested in the jabiruengine anymore. tks
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: jabiruengine-list <jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tue, Feb 21, 2012 3:51 pm
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Hydraulic or solid....
>
> --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson<lynnmatt@jps.net <mailto:lynnmatt@jps.net>>
>
> I'm guessing that their reputation would be in the dumpster, due to
> the greater number of people who would have bought one (motorcycle or
> car/truck) and ended up along the edge of the road.
>
> Lynn
>
>
> On Feb 21, 2012, at 3:33 PM, Martin Hone wrote:
>
> > All good points, but the biggest mistake Jabiru made was foisting
> > the engine onto an unsuspecting market when it hadn't received
> > adequate testing. Can you imagine what their reputation would be
> > like if it had powered a motor car or motorcycle ?
> >
> > Marty
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:41 AM, Lynn Matteson<lynnmatt@jps.net <mailto:lynnmatt@jps.net>>
> > wrote:
> > --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson
> > <lynnmatt@jps.net <mailto:lynnmatt@jps.net>>
> >
> > The short answer is they thought they were ready to make their
> > engine behave like a Lycoming or Continental....but history has
> > shown they weren't ready. They wanted what the big boys
> > had...simple maintenance, but the rest of the engine got in the
> > way. : )
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> > Jabiru 2200, #2062
> > Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
> > Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> > Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
> > Status: flying with 1229 hrs... (since 3-27-2006)
> >
> >
> >
> > On Feb 19, 2012, at 5:15 PM, James, Clive R wrote:
> >
> > 2 - Positive Valve Opening. Even at lower revs a hydraulically
> > operated valve suffers from a soft and soggy opening operation.
> > By replacing this with a positive mechanical lift, a more precise
> > motion is achieved. This leads to a faster change in manifold
> > vacuum, greater gas speed and ...more power!
> >
> > 3 - Predictable Operation. Hydraulic lifters are subjected to large
> > and frequent variations in oil pressure and temperature. Solid
> > lifters are a known quantity that simplify valve operation and
> > remove such variables.
> >
> > 4 - Weight and friction reduction. A solid lifter is 10% lighter
> > than it's hydraulic counterpart, and given the overall weight of
> > CVH valve train, this is an important bonus. Any loss of weight in
> > this area will help with engine efficiency and life expectancy.
> > Also, a hydraulic lifter exerts a constant pressure to the total
> > circumference of each lobe base circle resulting in a certain
> > amount of drag. A solid lifter does not contact the camshaft base
> > circle, so internal friction is reduced.
> >
> > Remind me why they changed them?
> >
> > =================================== _-www.matronics.com/ <http://www.matronics.com/>
> > contribution===============================
> >
> >
> >
> > ===================================
> > -
> > ine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?
> > JabiruEngine-List
> > ===================================
> > MS -
> > k">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
> > ===================================
> > e -
> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ===================================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > www.> ==================================
>
>
> ist" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic or solid.... |
Ok tks.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Turk <matronics@rtist.nl>
Sent: Wed, Feb 22, 2012 5:48 am
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Hydraulic or solid....
Then you need to unsubscribe from this list. You need to do this yourself,
just like you subscribed yourself. No-one here can do that for you.
Rob
On 2/22/2012 11:31 AM, ednan1@aol.com wrote:
I'm not interested in the jabiruengine anymore. tks
-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Tue, Feb 21, 2012 3:51 pm
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Hydraulic or solid....
I'm guessing that their reputation would be in the dumpster, due to
he greater number of people who would have bought one (motorcycle or
ar/truck) and ended up along the edge of the road.
Lynn
n Feb 21, 2012, at 3:33 PM, Martin Hone wrote:
> All good points, but the biggest mistake Jabiru made was foisting
the engine onto an unsuspecting market when it hadn't received
adequate testing. Can you imagine what their reputation would be
like if it had powered a motor car or motorcycle ?
Marty
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:41 AM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
wrote:
<lynnmatt@jps.net>
The short answer is they thought they were ready to make their
engine behave like a Lycoming or Continental....but history has
shown they weren't ready. They wanted what the big boys
had...simple maintenance, but the rest of the engine got in the
way. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: flying with 1229 hrs... (since 3-27-2006)
On Feb 19, 2012, at 5:15 PM, James, Clive R wrote:
2 - Positive Valve Opening. Even at lower revs a hydraulically
operated valve suffers from a =9Csoft and soggy=9D opening op
eration.
By replacing this with a positive mechanical lift, a more precise
motion is achieved. This leads to a faster change in manifold
vacuum, greater gas speed and ...more power!
3 - Predictable Operation. Hydraulic lifters are subjected to large
and frequent variations in oil pressure and temperature. Solid
lifters are a known quantity that simplify valve operation and
remove such variables.
4 - Weight and friction reduction. A solid lifter is 10% lighter
than it's hydraulic counterpart, and given the overall weight of
CVH valve train, this is an important bonus. Any loss of weight in
this area will help with engine efficiency and life expectancy.
Also, a hydraulic lifter exerts a constant pressure to the total
circumference of each lobe base circle resulting in a certain
amount of drag. A solid lifter does not contact the camshaft base
circle, so internal friction is reduced.
Remind me why they changed them?
========================
=========== _-www.matronics.com/
contribution====================
===========
========================
===========
-
ine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?
JabiruEngine-List
========================
===========
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
========================
===========
e -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
===========
www.> ======================
============
ist" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
://forums.matronics.com
lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-= - The JabiruEngine-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
Message 10
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| Subject: | Hydraulic or solid.... |
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