Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:47 AM - Re: valve problem (Lynn Matteson)
2. 09:08 AM - Re: 3300 First Run Oil Question (DaveG601XL)
3. 10:21 AM - Re: 3300 First Run Oil Question (AZFlyer)
4. 01:27 PM - Oily Residue (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net)
5. 01:47 PM - Re: Oily Residue (Rob Turk)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: valve problem |
Good morning, Bob-
No, I don't have a clue to what the problem was, nor if those
induction hardened (if indeed they were) valve seats cured the
problem. (We had three shifts working the proving grounds those days,
and quite often a problem would come and go before a worker could
such as I was, could return to work and try to track down what was
done. We also would be moved around from project to project, from day
to day, and this really kept us in the dark.)
(Thinking back to those days, we also had a slant-six that was touted
as a "lean-burn" vehicle, and was one of the 3 cars that we drove
from Michigan to Phoenix and eventually on to California for cooling
systems testing.)
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: flying with 1237 hrs... (since 3-27-2006)
On Mar 18, 2012, at 9:29 AM, BobsV35B@aol.com wrote:
> Good Morning Lynn,
>
> Do you recall what the engineers decided was the problem at Chrysler?
>
> When I attended school concerning engine operation, such problems
> were noted.
>
> Lead does a good low cost job of controlling the rate of
> combustion. Take away the lead and the combustion characteristics
> may change in a negative direction. It seems reasonable that
> changing the combustion characteristics will affect engine
> operations and the change needs to be considered.
>
> In a very general way, take out the lead and you need to lower the
> compression ratio.
>
> There are ways of controlling the timing of fuel into the cylinder
> that can allow higher compression with unleaded fuel, but such
> things are way above my pay grade!
>
> Once again. I am not an engineer, just an interested student of the
> results.
>
> I have never found a graduate engineer trained in the field that
> felt lead was beneficial to the engine, though the lead was the
> cheapest way to eliminate detonation.
>
> I think we can all agree that detonation is a bad thing!
>
> Taking away the lead will certainly change the combustion
> characteristics. That we do have to consider when we set up the
> engine.
>
> Your experience certainly emphasizes the point that small changes
> often have unforeseen results.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
>
> In a message dated 3/18/2012 6:50:31 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> lynnmatt@jps.net writes:
> <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Good morning Bob-
>
> I haven't spoken with you for a while now...good to hear from you
>
> As to the "cushioning" effect of the lead in leaded gasoline, I offer
> the following two anecdotes that I had first-hand knowledge of:
> First, I used to work at the Chrysler Proving Grounds as a driver/
> mechanic. When the talk of unleaded fuels first appeared, we had a
> big-block engine...either a 383 or 413 cu. inch...that we were going
> to use as a test vehicle for this fuel. In short order...I don't
> recall how long....the engine began to run roughly, and it was
> revealed that the valve seats were being "pounded" into the heads.
> (The hydraulic valve adjusters compensated for the change in valve
> geometry until they ran out of compensation) A few days later a new
> set of heads arrived, and they had been "induction hardened"
> according to one of the engineers involved in the project. I could
> see an area of blue around the valve seats....my memory has faded
> enough that I don't recall if all the valve seats were done or only
> the exhausts, but it seems like it was only the exhausts.
>
> Cut to about 20 years later (as I recall) and I was living in
> California and driving a 1973 Datsun Z, and when California stopped
> selling leaded fuel, and I was forced to use it in my Z, the engine
> began to run a bit roughly, and I found some valves that were too
> tight in their adjustments for clearance. I adjusted accordingly, and
> a few weeks later, had to adjust again. And on and on, until I ran
> out of adjustment on the rocker arms. Because I needed to keep the Z
> running for transportation to work, I got another head from a scrap
> yard and dropped it off at the auto machine shop for a valve job and
> the installation of hardened seats. To my surprise, the techie called
> me and said that this head already had hardened seats installed. That
> head is still on my Z and is still running.
>
> So whatever the reason, the leaded fuel did not harm my engine as it
> relates to valve operation, but that unleaded stuff sure did a number
> on it.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062
> Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
> Status: flying with 1236 hrs... (since 3-27-2006)
>
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 3300 First Run Oil Question |
Mike,
It has been a while since I first filled my 3300 with oil so I don't remember how
much I had to put in, but I believe I just filled until the oil hit the low
end of the hashed area and ran the engine. If you have the Jabiru USA oil cooler,
I believe it is larger than the one in the Jabiru Australia manuals and
will need more oil to fill.
After an oil change, 3.3 quarts of oil get me to this same hashed area, but my
cooler already has oil in it. Since you are starting off with an empty oil cooler,
you will need more oil to get to the same spot. After the system is filled,
you can adjust accordingly. Do not fill oil past the halfway point. Above
this, you may experience foaming that will result in oil pressures and temperatures
acting funny. Search the archives for a post I wrote on a return flight
from Oshkosh in 2010 where I over serviced the oil and had to make a precautionary
landing.
Good luck,
--------
David Gallagher
Zodiac 601 XL-B: flying, 200+ hours now
Next project under construction: Aircamper
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=368891#368891
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 3300 First Run Oil Question |
Dave,
Thanks for the input.
I could not see the oil coming up on the stick... so now it's at the top of the
indicator.... but I have a quick drain installed that I can remove a little
or a lot to bring the level down.
Appreciate your timely response...
Mike
--------
Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com
601 XL-B, 3300, Dynon
Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=368902#368902
Message 4
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List
We have two Jabiru 3300 in my area and both have shown a brown oily residue at
the bottom six o'clock position middle of the cylinder. It is right at the point
where the head joins the cylinders.The substance looks like oil but is a little
more sticky and has blackened spots in it. It is on 5 of my cylinders ( 146
hrs ) and only on the #4 and #6 of the other engine with only 28 hrs. I believe
it to be burnt oil leaking between the heads and cylinders. Has anyone else
experienced this and know what it is. Should we be concerned???
Bobby ( age 73 )
Zodiac 601 XL "B"
Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141
Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop
Bing Carb 260 Main & 285 Needle Jet
Status - Flying 146 hrs.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Oily Residue |
That's blow by. Your head-to-cylinder surface is leaking. Perhaps your
heads are not properly torqued up or they are warped due to overheating.
Rob
On 3/19/2012 9:25 PM, BobbyPaulk@comcast.net wrote:
> List
> We have two Jabiru 3300 in my area and both have shown a brown oily
> residue at the bottom six o'clock position middle of the cylinder. It
> is right at the point where the head joins the cylinders.The substance
> looks like oil but is a little more sticky and has blackened spots in
> it. It is on 5 of my cylinders ( 146 hrs ) and only on the #4 and #6
> of the other engine with only 28 hrs. I believe it to be burnt oil
> leaking between the heads and cylinders. Has anyone else experienced
> this and know what it is. Should we be concerned???
>
> Bobby ( age 73 )
> Zodiac 601 XL "B"
> Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141
> Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop
> Bing Carb 260 Main & 285 Needle Jet
> Status - Flying 146 hrs.
> *
>
>
> *
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