Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:32 AM - Cold Start (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net)
2. 07:27 AM - Re: Cold Start (FLYaDIVE)
3. 07:56 AM - Re: Cold Start (Rob Turk)
4. 07:58 AM - Re: Cold Start (FLYaDIVE)
5. 08:16 AM - Re: Cold Start (Pete Krotje)
6. 01:55 PM - Cold Start (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net)
7. 02:05 PM - Re: Cold Start (Gary Aman)
8. 02:14 PM - Re: Cold Start (Don Honabach)
Message 1
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Pete
Thanks for your input.
My idle rpm with engine warm is 650 to 750 while holding the throttle full closed
which is what I do when cranking. If I let go of the throttle it will ease
up to about 900 which is too high on smooth concrete - it will accelerate and
I have to use braking.
When it starts I like to let it turn 1,000 to 1200 while warming up.
bobby
Do not archive
Message 2
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Hi Pete:
Why is it that your throttle changes when you let go? This would be
classified as Throttle Creep which is not acceptable. Is it because there
is a bend or a loop causing pressure? Is the friction lock worn out?
Maybe you have too good an install of the throttle cable... NO FRICTION!
It is very interesting to read about a reversal of what usually happens.
Barry
On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 8:31 AM, <BobbyPaulk@comcast.net> wrote:
> Pete
> Thanks for your input.
> My idle rpm with engine warm is 650 to 750 while holding the throttle full
> closed which is what I do when cranking. If I let go of the throttle it
> will ease up to about 900 which is too high on smooth concrete - it will
> accelerate and I have to use braking.
> When it starts I like to let it turn 1,000 to 1200 while warming up.
>
> bobby
>
> Do not archive
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 3
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This has little to do with throttle creep. Most installs, especially
those with an extended throttle lever, will allow you to pull the
throttle further back, because it bends the idle stop. Pull hard enough
and you'll cause physical damage to the idle stop.
Rob
On 11/20/2014 4:26 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
> Hi Pete:
>
> Why is it that your throttle changes when you let go? This would be
> classified as Throttle Creep which is not acceptable. Is it because
> there is a bend or a loop causing pressure? Is the friction lock worn
> out? Maybe you have too good an install of the throttle cable... NO
> FRICTION! It is very interesting to read about a reversal of what
> usually happens.
>
> Barry
>
Message 4
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Bobby:
The Charger or the Jumper Cables are not the problem. All the battery and
starter have to do is spin the engine and as you said, that is happening.
The fuel on the wheel pant should be your first hint. You are FLOODING the
engine. This statement of course ASSUMES, that everything else is
acceptable...???
Black Smoke is NOT a true indication of a flooded state. Black Smoke is
Carbon and or Oil burning. Also, due to the prop wind and weather wind you
would not see smoke unless you stood out side the plane, focused on the
exhaust pipe and watched as someone else started the plane.
Generally on cold days; usually 32 F and below you need to give one or two
extra primes. But, at 55 F !!! That should not be an issue.
1 - Are you priming?
2 - How much are you priming?
3 - Whoops! Can you prime? I should have asked that first.
4 - Standard start procedure:
> Prime
> Mixture Rich
> Throttle 1/4" in
> Boost Pump - On (Wait till there is a slowing down of the pump)
> Boost Pump - Off
> MAGs - On
> Clear Prop
>>> START
5 - The 1.2 mm drill hole is not much, but if it as been a practice to do
such a hole, then what is needed is more AIR entering the Carb. The small
hole could very well be a Choke/Carb starting issue... Because - And I'm
Guessing - When you start the plane after the first start of the day you
Are Not using the Choke???
Experiment a little... No Choke... A little choke... See what happens.
Barry
On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 3:53 PM, <BobbyPaulk@comcast.net> wrote:
> Guys
> I should have said cold NOT start.
> When the outside temp is under 55 degrees my Jab 3300 will not start. I
> have tried jumper cables, chargers with 50 amp boost and a new battery. The
> engine spins very fast There is spark at the plugs and fuel dripping onto
> the nosewheel pant. I even tried starting fluid, choke on, choke off,
> throttle cracked, throttle wide open - nothing After about 45 minutes of
> this and letting it sit while the battery was recharging I decided to give
> it one more try. I tried it ( choke out - throttle closed) and it started
> right away as though nothing had been wrong. No flooded black smoke, no
> miss firing just a smooth run. Let it run until the oil temp show a small
> rise and shut it down. Put the cowl back on and it started immediately with
> no jumpers. I was a little apprehensive about leaving the field for a 90
> mile lunch trek but went anyhow - it started right up after sitting on the
> ramp for an hour and a half and again when we stopped for a short visit at
> another field. It has never failed to start after the first start of the
> day. My choke has not been drilled out to the 1.2mm. Could that be part of
> the problem. I am also wondering how the fuel got on the wheelpant?? I
> turn the key ( mag switch ) off while working on it and back on before
> spinning the starter - could it be the switch grounding both coils
> intermittently.
> I have heard of a newer coil for the left side that would allow propping
> or at least a lot more spark at a lower start RPM. Has anyone tried it?
> Out of ideas.
>
>
> Bobby ( age 76 )
> Zodiac 601 XL "B"
> Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141
> Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop
> Bing Carb 260 Main & 290 Needle Jet
> Status - Flying 235 hrs.
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 5
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Our FWF kits have either a single friction lock throttle cable or a dual
throttle cable system that has split blocks that can be tightened against
the throttle cross rod to provide proper tension. Works great but every
couple of years needs to be adjusted to the right tension. There is a
spring on the carb which pulls the throttle to full open as a safety feature
in case of throttle cable breaking or coming apart. Going to full throttle
keeps you in the air which is better than having the engine go to idle power
putting you into a glide that is hopefully long enough to get you away from
the alligators in the Everglades.
Pete
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Cold Start
Hi Pete:
Why is it that your throttle changes when you let go? This would be
classified as Throttle Creep which is not acceptable. Is it because there
is a bend or a loop causing pressure? Is the friction lock worn out? Maybe
you have too good an install of the throttle cable... NO FRICTION! It is
very interesting to read about a reversal of what usually happens.
Barry
On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 8:31 AM, <BobbyPaulk@comcast.net> wrote:
Pete
Thanks for your input.
My idle rpm with engine warm is 650 to 750 while holding the throttle full
closed which is what I do when cranking. If I let go of the throttle it will
ease up to about 900 which is too high on smooth concrete - it will
accelerate and I have to use braking.
When it starts I like to let it turn 1,000 to 1200 while warming up.
bobby
Do not archive
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Message 6
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List,
Last night was 27 degrees at the airport and got up to 50 right after lunch.
I tried to start my 3300 again and it never fired.
At the same time a friend called from a nearby airport trying to start his 2200
with several mechanics standing by and offering assistance. We went over the
start procedures several times. Finally one of the mechanics removed the wire
to the distributor and it had good spark. He then removed some spark plugs and
there was no visible spark. He measured the resistance of the wire and it was
4,000 ohms. He said this is over 4 times the resistance of what the carbon wires
should be. I measured one of mine and it was 3,500 ohms.
Question: Has anyone changed the wires to stranded copper with any better luck
starting a cold engine. One of the guys at the airport has a Continental O-200
with copper wires and he has no interference with his radios or intercom.
Neither engine started even after over an hour charging batteries and using jumper
cables.
Bobby ( age 76 )
Zodiac 601 XL "B"
Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141
Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop
Bing Carb 260 Main & 290 Needle Jet
Status - Flying 235 hrs.
Message 7
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My cold start issues went away 800 hrs ago when I closed the air gap at the p
ickups at the flywheel to about.008"
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 20, 2014, at 4:54 PM, BobbyPaulk@comcast.net wrote:
>
> List,
> Last night was 27 degrees at the airport and got up to 50 right after lunc
h.
> I tried to start my 3300 again and it never fired.
> At the same time a friend called from a nearby airport trying to start his
2200 with several mechanics standing by and offering assistance. We went ov
er the start procedures several times. Finally one of the mechanics removed t
he wire to the distributor and it had good spark. He then removed some spark
plugs and there was no visible spark. He measured the resistance of the wir
e and it was 4,000 ohms. He said this is over 4 times the resistance of what
the carbon wires should be. I measured one of mine and it was 3,500 ohms.
> Question: Has anyone changed the wires to stranded copper with any better l
uck starting a cold engine. One of the guys at the airport has a Continental
O-200 with copper wires and he has no interference with his radios or inter
com.
> Neither engine started even after over an hour charging batteries and usin
g jumper cables.
>
>
> Bobby ( age 76 )
> Zodiac 601 XL "B"
> Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141
> Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop
> Bing Carb 260 Main & 290 Needle Jet
> Status - Flying 235 hrs.
>
>
>
>
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Message 8
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