Today's Message Index:
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1. 12:58 PM - Off Field Landing (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net)
2. 01:18 PM - Re: Off Field Landing (Rob Turk)
3. 01:28 PM - Re: Off Field Landing (chris davis)
4. 01:53 PM - Re: Off Field Landing (FLYaDIVE)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Off Field Landing |
List,
On 12 / 3 / 2014 about 12:45 PM I started out to fly to a nearby airport to
visit and to have lunch.
Using my pre-take off check list I noticed my oil pressure was 37 psi ( nor
mal )
About 12 minutes into the flight at 2,000' throttled back to 18.5 " MP I go
t an audio signal in my earphones "Low oil pressure" By the time I looked a
t the gauge it was going thru 10 psi to zero in about 3 seconds.
I started looking for a place to land and about 20 seconds later the prop s
topped. A two lane highway was the only place I had a chance to put her dow
n.
I did a couple of S turns to let a pulp wood truck get further down the roa
d since he was going the same way I wanted to land. I also did a few S turn
s to land short of an overpass but I wanted to land near there to have a pl
ace to pull off the road without going in a ditch. ( ditches and trees were
on both sides of the road ).
I could hardly get out of the plane because my legs were shaking so bad. Th
ere was no damage to the plane or me and I managed to coast into a gas stat
ion parking lot.
A lot of good friends came to my rescue and we had the wings off and back i
n the hangar in about 3 hours.
At first I thought the engine quit due to oil pressure failure.
We were disassembling the engine and discovered that one of the three magne
ts on the flywheel had extended out and struck the steel plates in both ign
ition coils. This would have caused loss of ignition to both magnetos and t
he engine would wind down. This in turn would show low and then no oil pres
sure. Seconds later the prop stopped windmilling probably because I had slo
wed to 80 mph while looking for a place to land. The stoppage was caused by
ignition failure not oil pressure failure. There was no sudden stoppage or
seizure. After a while I was able to turn the engine easily by hand but we
heard a metal to metal grinding noise. The crunching we heard was the fray
ed coil plates rubbing against the flywheel / magnets. We removed the coils
and the engine turns fine with no noise. We found some of the screws holdi
ng the magnets to the flywheel at less the good torque. A contributing fact
or could be that I had set the air gap to .008 as recommended by others to
aid in cold starting but I do not think that was a problem. I had about 45
minutes on a previous flight with this setting and about 12 minutes into th
is flight when the failure occurred.
I am sending an oil sample out for analysis just to make sure there is no m
etal but the sump was clean except for a few small pieces of carbon. We cut
the filter open and it was clean.
I am looking for a used flywheel for the 3300 and the address of the after
market magneto coils that start at a much lower rpm.
Also I want to change out the three phase alternator coils while I have it
apart.
Thanks for any help.
Bobby ( age 76 )
Zodiac 601 XL "B"
Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141
Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop
Status - Flying 236 hrs.
Do Not Archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Off Field Landing |
Wow, incredible story, Bobby. Glad you made it out so well!
This is the first time I ever hear of the magnets coming lose, but
others may chime in with their war stories. Could it be that one of the
coils was actually too close (or the bolts holding it worked themselves
loose), causing a coil-magnet collision that also damaged the bolts of
the magnet? If the magnets had not moved in the past 230 hours, and the
coils are the last thing you worked on, that's a more likely cause.
Also, I'm puzzled about your 3-phase alternator remark. I have 3300 S/N
551 and it came with a single phase alternator. According to the
overhaul manual, 3-phase were phased out at serial number 164, a looong
time before yours. How did you end up with one of those?
As for ignition coils, I had good results with Honda 30500-Z1C-023 coils:
http://www.hondalawnparts.com/pages/CustomCatalog/Product/1426648
Rob
On 12/10/2014 9:57 PM, BobbyPaulk@comcast.net wrote:
> List,
>
>
> On 12 / 3 / 2014 about 12:45 PM I started out to fly to a nearby
> airport to visit and to have lunch.
> Using my pre-take off check list I noticed my oil pressure was 37 psi
> ( normal )
> About 12 minutes into the flight at 2,000' throttled back to 18.5 "
> MP I got an audio signal in my earphones "Low oil pressure" By the
> time I looked at the gauge it was going thru 10 psi to zero in about 3
> seconds.
>
> I started looking for a place to land and about 20 seconds later the
> prop stopped. A two lane highway was the only place I had a chance to
> put her down.
> I did a couple of S turns to let a pulp wood truck get further down
> the road since he was going the same way I wanted to land. I also did
> a few S turns to land short of an overpass but I wanted to land near
> there to have a place to pull off the road without going in a ditch. (
> ditches and trees were on both sides of the road ).
> I could hardly get out of the plane because my legs were shaking so
> bad. There was no damage to the plane or me and I managed to coast
> into a gas station parking lot.
> A lot of good friends came to my rescue and we had the wings off and
> back in the hangar in about 3 hours.
> At first I thought the engine quit due to oil pressure failure.
>
> We were disassembling the engine and discovered that one of the three
> magnets on the flywheel had extended out and struck the steel plates
> in both ignition coils. This would have caused loss of ignition to
> both magnetos and the engine would wind down. This in turn would show
> low and then no oil pressure. Seconds later the prop stopped
> windmilling probably because I had slowed to 80 mph while looking for
> a place to land. The stoppage was caused by ignition failure not oil
> pressure failure. There was no sudden stoppage or seizure. After a
> while I was able to turn the engine easily by hand but we heard a
> metal to metal grinding noise. The crunching we heard was the frayed
> coil plates rubbing against the flywheel / magnets. We removed the
> coils and the engine turns fine with no noise. We found some of the
> screws holding the magnets to the flywheel at less the good torque. A
> contributing factor could be that I had set the air gap to .008 as
> recommended by others to aid in cold starting but I do not think that
> was a problem. I had about 45 minutes on a previous flight with this
> setting and about 12 minutes into this flight when the failure occurred.
> I am sending an oil sample out for analysis just to make sure there is
> no metal but the sump was clean except for a few small pieces of
> carbon. We cut the filter open and it was clean.
> I am looking for a used flywheel for the 3300 and the address of the
> after market magneto coils that start at a much lower rpm.
> Also I want to change out the three phase alternator coils while I
> have it apart.
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Bobby ( age 76 )
> Zodiac 601 XL "B"
> Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141
> Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop
>
> Status - Flying 236 hrs.
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Off Field Landing |
Bobby , Fine job putting her down an troubleshooting !
Chris Davis
KXP 503 492 hrs
Glider Pilot
Disabled from crash building Firefly
On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4:07 PM, "BobbyPaulk@comcast.net" <BobbyPaulk@comcast.net>
wrote:
List,
On 12 / 3 / 2014 about 12:45 PM I started out to fly to a nearby airport to visit
and to have lunch.
Using my pre-take off check list I noticed my oil pressure was 37 psi ( normal
)
About 12 minutes into the flight at 2,000' throttled back to 18.5 " MP I got an
audio signal in my earphones "Low oil pressure" By the time I looked at the
gauge it was going thru 10 psi to zero in about 3 seconds.
I started looking for a place to land and about 20 seconds later the prop stopped.
A two lane highway was the only place I had a chance to put her down.
I did a couple of S turns to let a pulp wood truck get further down the road since
he was going the same way I wanted to land. I also did a few S turns to land
short of an overpass but I wanted to land near there to have a place to pull
off the road without going in a ditch. ( ditches and trees were on both sides
of the road ).
I could hardly get out of the plane because my legs were shaking so bad. There
was no damage to the plane or me and I managed to coast into a gas station parking
lot.
A lot of good friends came to my rescue and we had the wings off and back in the
hangar in about 3 hours.
At first I thought the engine quit due to oil pressure failure.
We were disassembling the engine and discovered that one of the three magnets on
the flywheel had extended out and struck the steel plates in both ignition coils.
This would have caused loss of ignition to both magnetos and the engine
would wind down. This in turn would show low and then no oil pressure. Seconds
later the prop stopped windmilling probably because I had slowed to 80 mph while
looking for a place to land. The stoppage was caused by ignition failure not
oil pressure failure. There was no sudden stoppage or seizure. After a while
I was able to turn the engine easily by hand but we heard a metal to metal grinding
noise. The crunching we heard was the frayed coil plates rubbing against
the flywheel / magnets. We removed the coils and the engine turns fine with
no noise. We found some of the screws holding the magnets to the flywheel at
less the good torque. A contributing factor could be that I had set the air
gap to .008 as recommended by
others to aid in cold starting but I do not think that was a problem. I had about
45 minutes on a previous flight with this setting and about 12 minutes into
this flight when the failure occurred.I am sending an oil sample out for analysis
just to make sure there is no metal but the sump was clean except for a
few small pieces of carbon. We cut the filter open and it was clean.
I am looking for a used flywheel for the 3300 and the address of the after market
magneto coils that start at a much lower rpm.
Also I want to change out the three phase alternator coils while I have it apart.
Thanks for any help.
Bobby ( age 76 )
Zodiac 601 XL "B"
Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141
Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop
Status - Flying 236 hrs.
Do Not Archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Off Field Landing |
GOOD JOB Bobby...
Yea, my kneed would have been knocking also.
As you noted, the clearance is very close but, if the magnets did not move
there would not have been a problem. So, again as you noted, check the
method that holds in the magnets.
If, others have noticed this type of problem maybe there should be some
type of Service Bulletin or AD equivalent to address this issue.
This is one of those cases where I would address it with Belts & Suspenders.
Barry
\
On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 3:57 PM, <BobbyPaulk@comcast.net> wrote:
> List,
>
>
> On 12 / 3 / 2014 about 12:45 PM I started out to fly to a nearby airport
> to visit and to have lunch.
> Using my pre-take off check list I noticed my oil pressure was 37 psi (
> normal )
> About 12 minutes into the flight at 2,000' throttled back to 18.5 " MP I
> got an audio signal in my earphones "Low oil pressure" By the time I looked
> at the gauge it was going thru 10 psi to zero in about 3 seconds.
>
> I started looking for a place to land and about 20 seconds later the prop
> stopped. A two lane highway was the only place I had a chance to put her
> down.
> I did a couple of S turns to let a pulp wood truck get further down the
> road since he was going the same way I wanted to land. I also did a few S
> turns to land short of an overpass but I wanted to land near there to have
> a place to pull off the road without going in a ditch. ( ditches and trees
> were on both sides of the road ).
> I could hardly get out of the plane because my legs were shaking so bad.
> There was no damage to the plane or me and I managed to coast into a gas
> station parking lot.
> A lot of good friends came to my rescue and we had the wings off and back
> in the hangar in about 3 hours.
> At first I thought the engine quit due to oil pressure failure.
>
> We were disassembling the engine and discovered that one of the three
> magnets on the flywheel had extended out and struck the steel plates in
> both ignition coils. This would have caused loss of ignition to both
> magnetos and the engine would wind down. This in turn would show low and
> then no oil pressure. Seconds later the prop stopped windmilling probably
> because I had slowed to 80 mph while looking for a place to land. The
> stoppage was caused by ignition failure not oil pressure failure. There was
> no sudden stoppage or seizure. After a while I was able to turn the engine
> easily by hand but we heard a metal to metal grinding noise. The crunching
> we heard was the frayed coil plates rubbing against the flywheel / magnets.
> We removed the coils and the engine turns fine with no noise. We found
> some of the screws holding the magnets to the flywheel at less the good
> torque. A contributing factor could be that I had set the air gap to .008
> as recommended by others to aid in cold starting but I do not think that
> was a problem. I had about 45 minutes on a previous flight with this
> setting and about 12 minutes into this flight when the failure occurred.
> I am sending an oil sample out for analysis just to make sure there is no
> metal but the sump was clean except for a few small pieces of carbon. We
> cut the filter open and it was clean.
> I am looking for a used flywheel for the 3300 and the address of the after
> market magneto coils that start at a much lower rpm.
> Also I want to change out the three phase alternator coils while I have it
> apart.
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Bobby ( age 76 )
> Zodiac 601 XL "B"
> Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141
> Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop
>
> Status - Flying 236 hrs.
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
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