---------------------------------------------------------- JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/10/14: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:58 PM - Off Field Landing (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net) 2. 01:18 PM - Re: Off Field Landing (Rob Turk) 3. 01:28 PM - Re: Off Field Landing (chris davis) 4. 01:53 PM - Re: Off Field Landing (FLYaDIVE) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:58:15 PM PST US From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Off Field Landing List, On 12 / 3 / 2014 about 12:45 PM I started out to fly to a nearby airport to visit and to have lunch. Using my pre-take off check list I noticed my oil pressure was 37 psi ( nor mal ) About 12 minutes into the flight at 2,000' throttled back to 18.5 " MP I go t an audio signal in my earphones "Low oil pressure" By the time I looked a t the gauge it was going thru 10 psi to zero in about 3 seconds. I started looking for a place to land and about 20 seconds later the prop s topped. A two lane highway was the only place I had a chance to put her dow n. I did a couple of S turns to let a pulp wood truck get further down the roa d since he was going the same way I wanted to land. I also did a few S turn s to land short of an overpass but I wanted to land near there to have a pl ace to pull off the road without going in a ditch. ( ditches and trees were on both sides of the road ). I could hardly get out of the plane because my legs were shaking so bad. Th ere was no damage to the plane or me and I managed to coast into a gas stat ion parking lot. A lot of good friends came to my rescue and we had the wings off and back i n the hangar in about 3 hours. At first I thought the engine quit due to oil pressure failure. We were disassembling the engine and discovered that one of the three magne ts on the flywheel had extended out and struck the steel plates in both ign ition coils. This would have caused loss of ignition to both magnetos and t he engine would wind down. This in turn would show low and then no oil pres sure. Seconds later the prop stopped windmilling probably because I had slo wed to 80 mph while looking for a place to land. The stoppage was caused by ignition failure not oil pressure failure. There was no sudden stoppage or seizure. After a while I was able to turn the engine easily by hand but we heard a metal to metal grinding noise. The crunching we heard was the fray ed coil plates rubbing against the flywheel / magnets. We removed the coils and the engine turns fine with no noise. We found some of the screws holdi ng the magnets to the flywheel at less the good torque. A contributing fact or could be that I had set the air gap to .008 as recommended by others to aid in cold starting but I do not think that was a problem. I had about 45 minutes on a previous flight with this setting and about 12 minutes into th is flight when the failure occurred. I am sending an oil sample out for analysis just to make sure there is no m etal but the sump was clean except for a few small pieces of carbon. We cut the filter open and it was clean. I am looking for a used flywheel for the 3300 and the address of the after market magneto coils that start at a much lower rpm. Also I want to change out the three phase alternator coils while I have it apart. Thanks for any help. Bobby ( age 76 ) Zodiac 601 XL "B" Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141 Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop Status - Flying 236 hrs. Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:18:16 PM PST US From: Rob Turk Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Off Field Landing Wow, incredible story, Bobby. Glad you made it out so well! This is the first time I ever hear of the magnets coming lose, but others may chime in with their war stories. Could it be that one of the coils was actually too close (or the bolts holding it worked themselves loose), causing a coil-magnet collision that also damaged the bolts of the magnet? If the magnets had not moved in the past 230 hours, and the coils are the last thing you worked on, that's a more likely cause. Also, I'm puzzled about your 3-phase alternator remark. I have 3300 S/N 551 and it came with a single phase alternator. According to the overhaul manual, 3-phase were phased out at serial number 164, a looong time before yours. How did you end up with one of those? As for ignition coils, I had good results with Honda 30500-Z1C-023 coils: http://www.hondalawnparts.com/pages/CustomCatalog/Product/1426648 Rob On 12/10/2014 9:57 PM, BobbyPaulk@comcast.net wrote: > List, > > > On 12 / 3 / 2014 about 12:45 PM I started out to fly to a nearby > airport to visit and to have lunch. > Using my pre-take off check list I noticed my oil pressure was 37 psi > ( normal ) > About 12 minutes into the flight at 2,000' throttled back to 18.5 " > MP I got an audio signal in my earphones "Low oil pressure" By the > time I looked at the gauge it was going thru 10 psi to zero in about 3 > seconds. > > I started looking for a place to land and about 20 seconds later the > prop stopped. A two lane highway was the only place I had a chance to > put her down. > I did a couple of S turns to let a pulp wood truck get further down > the road since he was going the same way I wanted to land. I also did > a few S turns to land short of an overpass but I wanted to land near > there to have a place to pull off the road without going in a ditch. ( > ditches and trees were on both sides of the road ). > I could hardly get out of the plane because my legs were shaking so > bad. There was no damage to the plane or me and I managed to coast > into a gas station parking lot. > A lot of good friends came to my rescue and we had the wings off and > back in the hangar in about 3 hours. > At first I thought the engine quit due to oil pressure failure. > > We were disassembling the engine and discovered that one of the three > magnets on the flywheel had extended out and struck the steel plates > in both ignition coils. This would have caused loss of ignition to > both magnetos and the engine would wind down. This in turn would show > low and then no oil pressure. Seconds later the prop stopped > windmilling probably because I had slowed to 80 mph while looking for > a place to land. The stoppage was caused by ignition failure not oil > pressure failure. There was no sudden stoppage or seizure. After a > while I was able to turn the engine easily by hand but we heard a > metal to metal grinding noise. The crunching we heard was the frayed > coil plates rubbing against the flywheel / magnets. We removed the > coils and the engine turns fine with no noise. We found some of the > screws holding the magnets to the flywheel at less the good torque. A > contributing factor could be that I had set the air gap to .008 as > recommended by others to aid in cold starting but I do not think that > was a problem. I had about 45 minutes on a previous flight with this > setting and about 12 minutes into this flight when the failure occurred. > I am sending an oil sample out for analysis just to make sure there is > no metal but the sump was clean except for a few small pieces of > carbon. We cut the filter open and it was clean. > I am looking for a used flywheel for the 3300 and the address of the > after market magneto coils that start at a much lower rpm. > Also I want to change out the three phase alternator coils while I > have it apart. > Thanks for any help. > > Bobby ( age 76 ) > Zodiac 601 XL "B" > Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141 > Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop > > Status - Flying 236 hrs. > > Do Not Archive > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:28:34 PM PST US From: chris davis Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Off Field Landing Bobby , Fine job putting her down an troubleshooting ! Chris Davis KXP 503 492 hrs Glider Pilot Disabled from crash building Firefly On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 4:07 PM, "BobbyPaulk@comcast.net" wrote: List, On 12 / 3 / 2014 about 12:45 PM I started out to fly to a nearby airport to visit and to have lunch. Using my pre-take off check list I noticed my oil pressure was 37 psi ( normal ) About 12 minutes into the flight at 2,000' throttled back to 18.5 " MP I got an audio signal in my earphones "Low oil pressure" By the time I looked at the gauge it was going thru 10 psi to zero in about 3 seconds. I started looking for a place to land and about 20 seconds later the prop stopped. A two lane highway was the only place I had a chance to put her down. I did a couple of S turns to let a pulp wood truck get further down the road since he was going the same way I wanted to land. I also did a few S turns to land short of an overpass but I wanted to land near there to have a place to pull off the road without going in a ditch. ( ditches and trees were on both sides of the road ). I could hardly get out of the plane because my legs were shaking so bad. There was no damage to the plane or me and I managed to coast into a gas station parking lot. A lot of good friends came to my rescue and we had the wings off and back in the hangar in about 3 hours. At first I thought the engine quit due to oil pressure failure. We were disassembling the engine and discovered that one of the three magnets on the flywheel had extended out and struck the steel plates in both ignition coils. This would have caused loss of ignition to both magnetos and the engine would wind down. This in turn would show low and then no oil pressure. Seconds later the prop stopped windmilling probably because I had slowed to 80 mph while looking for a place to land. The stoppage was caused by ignition failure not oil pressure failure. There was no sudden stoppage or seizure. After a while I was able to turn the engine easily by hand but we heard a metal to metal grinding noise. The crunching we heard was the frayed coil plates rubbing against the flywheel / magnets. We removed the coils and the engine turns fine with no noise. We found some of the screws holding the magnets to the flywheel at less the good torque. A contributing factor could be that I had set the air gap to .008 as recommended by others to aid in cold starting but I do not think that was a problem. I had about 45 minutes on a previous flight with this setting and about 12 minutes into this flight when the failure occurred.I am sending an oil sample out for analysis just to make sure there is no metal but the sump was clean except for a few small pieces of carbon. We cut the filter open and it was clean. I am looking for a used flywheel for the 3300 and the address of the after market magneto coils that start at a much lower rpm. Also I want to change out the three phase alternator coils while I have it apart. Thanks for any help. Bobby ( age 76 ) Zodiac 601 XL "B" Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141 Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop Status - Flying 236 hrs. Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Off Field Landing From: FLYaDIVE GOOD JOB Bobby... Yea, my kneed would have been knocking also. As you noted, the clearance is very close but, if the magnets did not move there would not have been a problem. So, again as you noted, check the method that holds in the magnets. If, others have noticed this type of problem maybe there should be some type of Service Bulletin or AD equivalent to address this issue. This is one of those cases where I would address it with Belts & Suspenders. Barry \ On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 3:57 PM, wrote: > List, > > > On 12 / 3 / 2014 about 12:45 PM I started out to fly to a nearby airport > to visit and to have lunch. > Using my pre-take off check list I noticed my oil pressure was 37 psi ( > normal ) > About 12 minutes into the flight at 2,000' throttled back to 18.5 " MP I > got an audio signal in my earphones "Low oil pressure" By the time I looked > at the gauge it was going thru 10 psi to zero in about 3 seconds. > > I started looking for a place to land and about 20 seconds later the prop > stopped. A two lane highway was the only place I had a chance to put her > down. > I did a couple of S turns to let a pulp wood truck get further down the > road since he was going the same way I wanted to land. I also did a few S > turns to land short of an overpass but I wanted to land near there to have > a place to pull off the road without going in a ditch. ( ditches and trees > were on both sides of the road ). > I could hardly get out of the plane because my legs were shaking so bad. > There was no damage to the plane or me and I managed to coast into a gas > station parking lot. > A lot of good friends came to my rescue and we had the wings off and back > in the hangar in about 3 hours. > At first I thought the engine quit due to oil pressure failure. > > We were disassembling the engine and discovered that one of the three > magnets on the flywheel had extended out and struck the steel plates in > both ignition coils. This would have caused loss of ignition to both > magnetos and the engine would wind down. This in turn would show low and > then no oil pressure. Seconds later the prop stopped windmilling probably > because I had slowed to 80 mph while looking for a place to land. The > stoppage was caused by ignition failure not oil pressure failure. There was > no sudden stoppage or seizure. After a while I was able to turn the engine > easily by hand but we heard a metal to metal grinding noise. The crunching > we heard was the frayed coil plates rubbing against the flywheel / magnets. > We removed the coils and the engine turns fine with no noise. We found > some of the screws holding the magnets to the flywheel at less the good > torque. A contributing factor could be that I had set the air gap to .008 > as recommended by others to aid in cold starting but I do not think that > was a problem. I had about 45 minutes on a previous flight with this > setting and about 12 minutes into this flight when the failure occurred. > I am sending an oil sample out for analysis just to make sure there is no > metal but the sump was clean except for a few small pieces of carbon. We > cut the filter open and it was clean. > I am looking for a used flywheel for the 3300 and the address of the after > market magneto coils that start at a much lower rpm. > Also I want to change out the three phase alternator coils while I have it > apart. > Thanks for any help. > > Bobby ( age 76 ) > Zodiac 601 XL "B" > Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141 > Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop > > Status - Flying 236 hrs. > > Do Not Archive > > > * > > > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message jabiruengine-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/JabiruEngine-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/jabiruengine-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/jabiruengine-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.