---------------------------------------------------------- JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 02/13/15: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:53 AM - Re: Jabiru 2200 right mag. option (Rob Turk) 2. 08:16 AM - Re: Jabiru 2200 right mag. option (robert Haas) 3. 08:33 AM - Up Date (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net) 4. 08:37 AM - Re: Jabiru 2200 right mag. option (Rob Turk) 5. 09:34 AM - Re: Up Date (robert Haas) 6. 10:53 AM - Re: Jabiru 2200 right mag. option (robert Haas) 7. 11:37 AM - Re: CHT sensor Installation (James Missler) 8. 12:17 PM - Re: CHT sensor Installation (Rob Turk) 9. 12:30 PM - Re: Jabiru 2200 right mag. option (Rob Turk) 10. 01:56 PM - Re: Jabiru 2200 right mag. option (robert Haas) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:08 AM PST US From: Rob Turk Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jabiru 2200 right mag. option Hello Robert, The coils are standard parts for Jabiru, there are no big and small versions. What problem are you trying to fix? Rob On 2/12/2015 10:01 PM, robert Haas wrote: > > > I need a smaller right coil and hall effect sensor for a 2200 > Jabiru engine. Bob Haas, checkpoint3@comcast.net. FL. USA. > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:34 AM PST US From: "robert Haas" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jabiru 2200 right mag. option Greetings , I need a thinner dimension where the coil attaches to the stand off mounts on the rear in order to run a alternator belt to a pulley mounted on the end of the crank. It seems that the alignment of the drive pulley , interferes with the driven pulley on the mounted alternator. If I could fine a hall sensor that would mount at the original position, then I could locate the coil nearby and supply voltage to the distributer. -----Original Message----- From: Rob Turk Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 9:41 AM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jabiru 2200 right mag. option Hello Robert, The coils are standard parts for Jabiru, there are no big and small versions. What problem are you trying to fix? Rob On 2/12/2015 10:01 PM, robert Haas wrote: > > > I need a smaller right coil and hall effect sensor for a 2200 > Jabiru engine. Bob Haas, checkpoint3@comcast.net. FL. USA. > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:39 AM PST US From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Up Date List While I was re-building the flywheel / coil / ignition area on the back of my engine I took my starter to a friend and owner of a starter / generator shop to have it cleaned, lubed and checked out. He said the bolts holding it together were loose and the armature had beat the bearings into the case and it was not rebuild-able. Both front and rear bearings had done so. The back side of the starter is Nippon-Denso and could be replaced but the front adapter is a Jabiru part. I am looking at welding and turning it back to specs. It turns out after much study that the starter was key to my hard start problems from the get go. If it was dragging it would not turn the engine fast enough to fire the magnetos that do not have impulse couplings. ( 300 rpm ) So that sent me off in the direction I took to tighten the air gap between the magnets and the coils as some others have done with success to get a stronger spark. . Although I had a 45 minute flight on it I apparently had set the gap a little too tight and on the second flight as the engine warmed up it caused the magnet retention bar to collide with the plates holding the coils. The two small screws holding one of the magnet retention bars sheared and pushed the coils away from the magnets which cut off the ignition causing the off field landing. Please put the starter on your "Condition" inspection list or check it when you have the cowl off. My visual exam of the starter was to try to move it by hand and if it was snug I thought it was o.k. The bolts loosened somewhere between 220 hours and 239 on the hobbs causing the failure. I will make sure the bolts will have Loctite on them when they go back and check the torque on a regular basis. I am re-placing the left coil with the Ro-Tec E-Mag and a friend who is doing the same is giving me his original left coil. bobby ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:57 AM PST US From: Rob Turk Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jabiru 2200 right mag. option The location and dimensions of the coil are crucial to proper spark timing, you cannot just move it around to some other position. I'm not sure if you are trying to re-invent the wheel, but there are two companies already selling belt-drive alternator conversions that fit the engine as-is: CAMit: http://camitaeroengines.net/collections/ancillary-parts/products/kit-alternator-40amp-2200 Rotec: http://www.rotecaerosport.com/products/jab/alt/ If you are looking for just a bit more current than the older 10A generator provides, then you can opt to get a 20-25A Jabiru generator which fits right onto the flywheel. Rob On 2/13/2015 5:15 PM, robert Haas wrote: > > > Greetings , I need a thinner dimension where > the coil attaches to the stand off mounts on the rear in order to run > a alternator belt to a pulley > mounted on the end of the crank. It seems that the alignment of the > drive pulley , interferes with the driven pulley on the mounted > alternator. > If I could fine a hall sensor that would mount at the original > position, then I could locate the coil nearby and supply voltage to > the distributer. > > -----Original Message----- From: Rob Turk > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 9:41 AM > To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jabiru 2200 right mag. option > > > Hello Robert, > > The coils are standard parts for Jabiru, there are no big and small > versions. > What problem are you trying to fix? > > Rob > > On 2/12/2015 10:01 PM, robert Haas wrote: >> >> >> I need a smaller right coil and hall effect sensor for a 2200 >> Jabiru engine. Bob Haas, checkpoint3@comcast.net. FL. USA. >> > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:34:43 AM PST US From: "robert Haas" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Up Date Thanks for the information, I=99ll check it. From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 11:33 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Up Date List While I was re-building the flywheel / coil / ignition area on the back of my engine I took my starter to a friend and owner of a starter / generator shop to have it cleaned, lubed and checked out. He said the bolts holding it together were loose and the armature had beat the bearings into the case and it was not rebuild-able. Both front and rear bearings had done so. The back side of the starter is Nippon-Denso and could be replaced but the front adapter is a Jabiru part. I am looking at welding and turning it back to specs. It turns out after much study that the starter was key to my hard start problems from the get go. If it was dragging it would not turn the engine fast enough to fire the magnetos that do not have impulse couplings. ( 300 rpm ) So that sent me off in the direction I took to tighten the air gap between the magnets and the coils as some others have done with success to get a stronger spark. . Although I had a 45 minute flight on it I apparently had set the gap a little too tight and on the second flight as the engine warmed up it caused the magnet retention bar to collide with the plates holding the coils. The two small screws holding one of the magnet retention bars sheared and pushed the coils away from the magnets which cut off the ignition causing the off field landing. Please put the starter on your "Condition" inspection list or check it when you have the cowl off. My visual exam of the starter was to try to move it by hand and if it was snug I thought it was o.k. The bolts loosened somewhere between 220 hours and 239 on the hobbs causing the failure. I will make sure the bolts will have Loctite on them when they go back and check the torque on a regular basis. I am re-placing the left coil with the Ro-Tec E-Mag and a friend who is doing the same is giving me his original left coil. bobby ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:53:58 AM PST US From: "robert Haas" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jabiru 2200 right mag. option Rob, I understand Hall effect works. There is an option, look at the Rotec E-ignition upgrade, and notice the components. The hall effect sensor is remoted via the ignition module to the coil. The Hall sensor triggers the coil because it is positioned as the original coil magneto to the fly wheel. What is the origin of that set up? Where did Rotec find it? Where can I buy one here in the States? Thanks for your insight to my problem. Bob Haas. -----Original Message----- From: Rob Turk Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 11:36 AM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jabiru 2200 right mag. option The location and dimensions of the coil are crucial to proper spark timing, you cannot just move it around to some other position. I'm not sure if you are trying to re-invent the wheel, but there are two companies already selling belt-drive alternator conversions that fit the engine as-is: CAMit: http://camitaeroengines.net/collections/ancillary-parts/products/kit-alternator-40amp-2200 Rotec: http://www.rotecaerosport.com/products/jab/alt/ If you are looking for just a bit more current than the older 10A generator provides, then you can opt to get a 20-25A Jabiru generator which fits right onto the flywheel. Rob On 2/13/2015 5:15 PM, robert Haas wrote: > > > Greetings , I need a thinner dimension where the > coil attaches to the stand off mounts on the rear in order to run a > alternator belt to a pulley > mounted on the end of the crank. It seems that the alignment of the drive > pulley , interferes with the driven pulley on the mounted alternator. > If I could fine a hall sensor that would mount at the original position, > then I could locate the coil nearby and supply voltage to the distributer. > > -----Original Message----- From: Rob Turk > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 9:41 AM > To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jabiru 2200 right mag. option > > > Hello Robert, > > The coils are standard parts for Jabiru, there are no big and small > versions. > What problem are you trying to fix? > > Rob > > On 2/12/2015 10:01 PM, robert Haas wrote: >> >> >> I need a smaller right coil and hall effect sensor for a 2200 >> Jabiru engine. Bob Haas, checkpoint3@comcast.net. FL. USA. >> > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:37:38 AM PST US From: James Missler Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT sensor Installation Regarding CHT sensor installation, has anyone tried connecting to the Allen key headed bolt between the spark plugs? Since my Ser. #22A976 Mod. 2200 does not have the pilot hole between the spark plugs as described in Procedure AVDALSR085-1 why not connect to this existing bolt. Since I already know my cylinders are running in the proper temp. range all I need to know is if there is a sudden change in any one or all of them. I'm not really concerned what the actual temp. is, just if there is a change. I of coarse would tighten the head bolt back to its proper torque. Any one have any thoughts on this. Also does anyone have information on installing Vortex generators on the wings and all tail surfaces? Jim Missler 974 W. Main St. Bellevue, Ohio 44811 419-271-4279 Installed in Kitfox III 100 Hrs. Total Time ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:09 PM PST US From: Rob Turk Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT sensor Installation The issue with that is that the allen bolt is torqued to quite a high tension. The CHT ring is made of soft copper, which will simply compress and break when you properly torque that bolt. If the CHT ring does not break right away, the bolt will gradually squeeze the soft copper and will lose tension. That will cause blow-by. I have the same old heads, and if you look down between the spark plugs, there's an 8mm hole/cavity in the heads. I have obtained 8mm thermocouple probes which snugly fit inside. I compared the readings against the under-the-spark value and found about 40degC higher values. Rob On 2/13/2015 8:36 PM, James Missler wrote: > > Regarding CHT sensor installation, has anyone tried connecting to the Allen key headed bolt between the spark plugs? Since my Ser. #22A976 Mod. 2200 does not have the pilot hole between the spark plugs as described in Procedure AVDALSR085-1 why not connect to this existing bolt. Since I already know my cylinders are running in the proper temp. range all I need to know is if there is a sudden change in any one or all of them. I'm not really concerned what the actual temp. is, just if there is a change. I of coarse would tighten the head bolt back to its proper torque. Any one have any thoughts on this. Also does anyone have information on installing Vortex generators on the wings and all tail surfaces? > Jim Missler > 974 W. Main St. > Bellevue, Ohio 44811 > 419-271-4279 > Installed in Kitfox III > 100 Hrs. Total Time > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:30:03 PM PST US From: Rob Turk Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jabiru 2200 right mag. option Hi Robert, I own a Rotec ignition set, so I have used that hall sensor. Rotec produces them themselves. They machined a simple aluminum bracket, then potted a standard hall sensor (looks like TO-92 transistor) into a little cube and mounted it on the bracket. It is crude but it works. With the original Jabiru ignition coil, the magnet on the flywheel directly generates the energy to produce a spark. With the Rotec sensor, the magnet is only used to sense the position, the spark is produced by a separate ignition module and ignition coil. Rotec has used this combination of sensor, ignition module and coil for their radial engines and adapted the sensor for use on Jabiru engines later on. The Rotec hall sensor is indeed much smaller than the Jabiru coil, so if that fixes your problem, go ahead and buy their kit. They are happy to send one across the pond. As a bonus you get better cold weather starting. Rob On 2/13/2015 7:53 PM, robert Haas wrote: > > > Rob, I understand Hall effect works. There is an option, look at > the Rotec E-ignition upgrade, and notice the components. The hall effect > sensor is remoted via the ignition module to the coil. The Hall > sensor triggers the coil because it is positioned as the original coil > magneto to the > fly wheel. What is the origin of that set up? Where did Rotec find > it? Where can I buy one here in the States? Thanks for your insight to > my problem. > Bob Haas. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:37 PM PST US From: "robert Haas" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jabiru 2200 right mag. option Hey Rob, Thanks for the info, It never gets below 40' here in SW FL, so starting is no factor. I bought the alternator kit from Rotec, it is a good kit and value for the money. But , when I told them it would not work on my Alpi Pioneer, the quit talking to me. That explains why I cant fine a commercial application. I will purchase the Ignition if I can't come up with some thing else. Thanks again, Bob Haas. -----Original Message----- From: Rob Turk Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 3:29 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Jabiru 2200 right mag. option Hi Robert, I own a Rotec ignition set, so I have used that hall sensor. Rotec produces them themselves. They machined a simple aluminum bracket, then potted a standard hall sensor (looks like TO-92 transistor) into a little cube and mounted it on the bracket. It is crude but it works. With the original Jabiru ignition coil, the magnet on the flywheel directly generates the energy to produce a spark. With the Rotec sensor, the magnet is only used to sense the position, the spark is produced by a separate ignition module and ignition coil. Rotec has used this combination of sensor, ignition module and coil for their radial engines and adapted the sensor for use on Jabiru engines later on. The Rotec hall sensor is indeed much smaller than the Jabiru coil, so if that fixes your problem, go ahead and buy their kit. They are happy to send one across the pond. As a bonus you get better cold weather starting. Rob On 2/13/2015 7:53 PM, robert Haas wrote: > > > Rob, I understand Hall effect works. There is an option, look at the > Rotec E-ignition upgrade, and notice the components. The hall effect > sensor is remoted via the ignition module to the coil. The Hall sensor > triggers the coil because it is positioned as the original coil magneto to > the > fly wheel. What is the origin of that set up? Where did Rotec find it? > Where can I buy one here in the States? Thanks for your insight to my > problem. > Bob Haas. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message jabiruengine-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/JabiruEngine-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/jabiruengine-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/jabiruengine-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.