---------------------------------------------------------- JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 07/07/17: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:11 AM - Re: Re: Advice on intermittent voltage spiking in Jab 3300 (Rob Turk) 2. 02:35 AM - Re: Re: Advice on intermittent voltage spiking in Jab 3300 (FLYaDIVE) 3. 03:03 AM - Re: Re: Advice on intermittent voltage spiking in Jab 3300 (Rob Turk) 4. 03:33 PM - Jabiru (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:51 AM PST US Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Advice on intermittent voltage spiking in Jab 3300 From: Rob Turk Jabiru owner here.. Please don't make assumptions, this engine does not have traditional magneto and alternator systems. The flywheel on the Jabiru engine has two sets of electrical components. 1. Fixed sets of magnets on the outer edge of the flywheel, three sets on a 3300 engine. These fly by two fixed ignition coils, providing independent ignition systems. Lawnmower technology. Mechanical distributors send these to the right spark plugs. This setup equates to what the magnetos would be on a Lycoming. Has nothing to do with bus power or charging circuits. 2. A ring with rear-earth magnets, which rotates around a 12-pole fixed stator. This is a permanent magnet alternator (PMA) which is like a simple motorcycle dynamo. The output varies from 6V AC when idle, to 40V AC when running full power. The output is rectified and regulated by a simple Kubota regulator. This regulator takes two input lines from the PMA, and delivers two output lines (GND and +12V) to the battery. A yellow reference wire is tied to the battery +12V pole as well so the regulator 'knows' the bus voltage. For the regulator to do its job, you need the following: 1. The regulator must not be broken (duh..) 2. The regulator must receive some cooling air 3. The regulator body must be grounded 4. The regulator output (red, +12V) and reference (yellow) wire must be firmly connected at the battery +12V pole 5. The regulator ground wire must be firmly connected to the central ground point on the firewall. With this, you'll have a well working system. You can expand by using an OV protection system, but Jabiru does not recommend this. A drawing for the electrical system is available in the freely downloadable manuals at www.jabiru.net.au If you are uncomfortable with this setup then a more traditional belt-driven alternator setup is available from Rotec. Rob On 7/6/2017 11:52 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > > I think the magnets and pickup you mentioned are not the alternator > but rather the ignition system. The wires from the pickups shouldn't > go to the voltage regulator (I think) but should connect eventually to > the distributors and spark plugs. I can't remember where the > electronics live in the ignition system but I don't think it is the > voltage regulator which is part of a different system entirely. > > I think the alternator on the Jabiru 3300 is inside the bright > aluminum frame work on the back of the engine. > > Paul > > > On 7/6/2017 2:24 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote: >> Thanks for the quick reply. Although I'll have to talk to some others >> who actually can translate much of what you've said, the Jabiru 3300 >> doesn't have a regular alternator, but something with magnets wound >> into the rear flywheel of the engine with two white wires that are >> connected to the voltage regulator. >> I don't think there are any brushes. > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:35:14 AM PST US From: FLYaDIVE Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Advice on intermittent voltage spiking in Jab 3300 Bob: I went to the Jabiru web site and reviewed the 3300 engine manual. Here is a link to that manual: http://www.jabiru.net.au/Manuals/Engine/JEM3302-7_Inst.pdf See pages: 14 & 15. The system is simple enough. But! If: 1 - Ground becomes Open, you will lose regulation. 2 - The Yellow (regulation) wire becomes Open you will lose regulation. 3 - I'm not sure what would happen if you connected the B+ wire (pale blue wire) to the #3 pin of the regulator (this is for a second alternator). NOW!!! If there is a DUAL regulator in one box (the gray finned box) and one side of the regular blew... You maybe able to utilize the pin of the #2 alternator for your needs. So: Do a resistance check of the B+ wire all the way from the regulator to the Battery. Do a resistance check of the voltage control wire (yellow wire) all the way from the regulator to the Battery. The manual mentions the use of a BUSS. If the plane has a Buss, than you include that in your point to point check. Such as: A to B to C to D... >From your explanation the alternator is putting out - Just too much Output. So it is the regulation that is failing. Print out the two pages of the manual and see if they help your understanding of the circuit and what the physical items LQQK like. Operation seems quite simple. OH! There is always the SWAP method of testing... Can you get a spare Regulator? Just make sure you GROUND the Body of the Regulator. This is done for 3 reasons: 1 - Physical transfer of heat - Heat Sink. 2 - Electrical Ground - To put everything at the same electrical ground potential. 3 - There MAY be part of the circuit (Ground) connected to the regulator case... Well, that sure sounds like #2 above ;-) You will notice that Pins: 2 and 6 are to the Battery + and - respectively. Pin 5 is the sense wire. They use the term Buss... Oh, they spelled Buss incorrectly... Single 'S' is what you ride ;-) If on your plane you do not use/utilize a Buss, it can go directly to the B+ side of the battery. Just make sure it is a good, no Perfect Connection. One last thing: Notice in the manual they show Fast-On connectors? They are good when they work. But, many are crimped incorrectly. The crimp tool that makes a U and dimples the connector also causes problems. Re-Crimp them (easier than R&R) with a proper tool. One MORE last thing: Open up the regulator Connector (LQQKs like a MOLEX connector), inspect for corrosion. Clean with Contact Cleaner and a wire brush - BOTH halves. I use DIELECTRIC GREASE on those type connectors because they are notorious for corrosion. Also inspect the back end of the connector... Corrosion and POOR Crimping of the wires. Electronics is the game... Shocking ain't it! Barry On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Skyking13 wrote: > robertkperry@gmail.com> > > Barry, > Thanks for the quick reply. Although I'll have to talk to some others who > actually can translate much of what you've said, the Jabiru 3300 doesn't > have a regular alternator, but something with magnets wound into the rear > flywheel of the engine with two white wires that are connected to the > voltage regulator. > I don't think there are any brushes. > > -------- > Blue Skies & Tailwinds, > Captain Bob > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470739#470739 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:03:04 AM PST US Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Advice on intermittent voltage spiking in Jab 3300 From: Rob Turk Barry, Have you *EVER* worked on a Jabiru electrical system?? Your advice below contains so many errors, it's not funny anymore. - There is NO SUCH THING as a dual regulator. Don't even suggest that! The labels 'Alternator #1 and #2' refer to the two AC wires coming from the PMA. Not to a dual regulator or alternator of any kind. Poor choise of names. - The pale blue wires (pin 1 and 3) are the AC inputs of the regulator. They receive the AC output of the PMA, and NOTHING ELSE! - The B+ / Battery wire (pin 6) is RED! - The regulator sense wire (pin 5) is YELLOW! - The Ground wire (pin 2) is BLACK! See the schematics and details on page 25 and 26 of that same manual. Please, please, please do NOT make assumptions, these are NOT toys. Lives depend on it! Rob On 7/7/2017 11:34 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote: > Bob: > > I went to the Jabiru web site and reviewed the 3300 engine manual. > Here is a link to that manual: > http://www.jabiru.net.au/Manuals/Engine/JEM3302-7_Inst.pdf > > See pages: 14 & 15. > > The system is simple enough. But! If: > 1 - Ground becomes Open, you will lose regulation. > 2 - The Yellow (regulation) wire becomes Open you will lose regulation. > 3 - I'm not sure what would happen if you connected the B+ wire (pale > blue wire) to the #3 pin of the regulator (this is for a second > alternator). > NOW!!! If there is a DUAL regulator in one box (the gray finned box) > and one side of the regular blew... You maybe able to utilize the pin > of the #2 alternator for your needs. > > So: > Do a resistance check of the B+ wire all the way from the regulator to > the Battery. > Do a resistance check of the voltage control wire (yellow wire) all > the way from the regulator to the Battery. > The manual mentions the use of a BUSS. If the plane has a Buss, than > you include that in your point to point check. Such as: A to B to C > to D... > > From your explanation the alternator is putting out - Just too much > Output. So it is the regulation that is failing. > > Print out the two pages of the manual and see if they help your > understanding of the circuit and what the physical items LQQK like. > Operation seems quite simple. > OH! There is always the SWAP method of testing... Can you get a spare > Regulator? > Just make sure you GROUND the Body of the Regulator. > This is done for 3 reasons: > 1 - Physical transfer of heat - Heat Sink. > 2 - Electrical Ground - To put everything at the same electrical > ground potential. > 3 - There MAY be part of the circuit (Ground) connected to the > regulator case... Well, that sure sounds like #2 above ;-) > You will notice that Pins: 2 and 6 are to the Battery + and - > respectively. Pin 5 is the sense wire. They use the term Buss... > Oh, they spelled Buss incorrectly... Single 'S' is what you ride ;-) > If on your plane you do not use/utilize a Buss, it can go directly to > the B+ side of the battery. Just make sure it is a good, no Perfect > Connection. > > One last thing: Notice in the manual they show Fast-On connectors? > They are good when they work. But, many are crimped incorrectly. > The crimp tool that makes a U and dimples the connector also causes > problems. Re-Crimp them (easier than R&R) with a proper tool. > One MORE last thing: Open up the regulator Connector (LQQKs like a > MOLEX connector), inspect for corrosion. Clean with Contact Cleaner > and a wire brush - BOTH halves. I use DIELECTRIC GREASE on those type > connectors because they are notorious for corrosion. Also inspect the > back end of the connector... Corrosion and POOR Crimping of the wires. > > Electronics is the game... Shocking ain't it! > > Barry > > > On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Skyking13 > wrote: > > > > > Barry, > Thanks for the quick reply. Although I'll have to talk to some > others who actually can translate much of what you've said, the > Jabiru 3300 doesn't have a regular alternator, but something with > magnets wound into the rear flywheel of the engine with two white > wires that are connected to the voltage regulator. > I don't think there are any brushes. > > -------- > Blue Skies & Tailwinds, > Captain Bob > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470739#470739 > > > > =================================== > - > ruEngine-List" rel="noreferrer" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > =================================== > FORUMS - > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > WIKI - > errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com > =================================== > b Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:33:26 PM PST US From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Jabiru Guys The standard Jabiru comes with a dynamo ( Magnets and coils on the flywheel ). It does not charge much unless the engine is turning about cruise RPMs. The same flywheel has more magnets and coils on the outer rim for ignition. The external regulator is from a Kubota ( I think ) Tractor. I replaced all the Dynamo stuff with an alternator kit from AU. Bobby Jabiru 3300 278 hrs. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message jabiruengine-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/JabiruEngine-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/jabiruengine-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/jabiruengine-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.