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1. 05:10 AM - Re: Tri-R KIS TR-1 Nose Leg ()
2. 01:01 PM - Re: Website Update (Larry David)
3. 02:52 PM - Re: Website Update (Robert Reed)
4. 03:14 PM - Re: Website Update (Larry David)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Tri-R KIS TR-1 Nose Leg |
10/23/2009
Hello Lyle, I really appreciate your taking the time to sort out my version
of a better KIS TR-1 nose gear strut weldment. I hope that JJ and other
builders may benefit also.
You wrote:
1) "Is the threaded portion on the bottom of your nose gear weldment pinned
to the shoe stub, or is it welded in place?"
I have never detected any pins in that assembly. As far as I can tell the
entire vertical shoe stub is either turned out of one solid piece or welded
together and then welded to the end of the angled strut.
2) "If it's pinned, we'll be able to make you a longer threaded portion and
pin it in place of your old one."
I am coming towards the conclusion that the best (and most economical)
solution for my concerns is to ship my present strut weldment to you for
modification rather than attempt to have you build me an entire new one. In
that case I would envision that you would cut off the existing vertical shoe
stub, create a new one (probably by turning, but maybe by welding), and weld
the new stub in place on the end of the angled strut.
When the new stub is created the threaded portion would be about an inch
longer than the existing threaded portion. This additional length would
permit use of a standard thickness AN 310 castle nut, some flexibility in
the steel and nylon washer stack up, and a cotter key hole placed a
comfortable distance from the bottom end of the vertical shoe stub. Is the
creation and installation of a new vertical shoe stub not feasible?
3) "To modify your existing weldment with a wider ring, we could add
(welding from the top only) a ring (washer with a cutout) wide enough to
place your favorite washers under it. The top or bottom of your shoe would
then need to be milled to remove equal thickness of the washer that was
added."
Since the existing vertical shoe stub has the uncorrectable deficiences of a
threaded portion being too short with an offset cotter key hole too close to
the end a newly made vertical shoe stub is required. With the creation of
the new vertical shoe stub the wider ring (washer with a cutout) could be
welded in place on the new stub in the proper location.
In fact the proper vertical location of that wider ring on the stub is very
important. I have just spent the better part of two years creating a nose
wheel pant (from Van's), and a nose strut fairing (from Glastar), for my
plane. Please see the two attached pictures. Since the bottom surface of
that ring, plus any washers, determines the vertical location of the top of
the aluminum shoe and in turn the spacing between the front wheel pant
opening and the strut fairing it is important that the wider ring be in a
high enough vertical location on the stub to permit adjusting the vertical
location of the top of the aluminum shoe with nylon and steel washers as
needed. I don't think that milling of the top or bottom of the aluminum shoe
is desired or needed (Recall that the new vertical stub threaded portion is
going to be about an inch longer than the old stub.)
Once again I appreciate your detailed involvement in solving my (and maybe
other people's) problems with this strut.
OC
PS: I will send out a version of this email to the kisbuilders list without
the pictures attached. If anyone wants to see the pictures of my fabulous
new nose wheel pants just email me and I'll send you some copies direct
attached to and email.
================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lyle Hendricks" <lyle@hendricksmfg.com>
Cc: <kisbuilders@angus.mystery.com>; "'TRICKEL, RICH'"
<richard_trickel@yahoo.com>; <helixaviation@btinternet.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 1:58 PM
Subject: RE: Tri-R KIS TR-1 Nose Leg
O.C.,
You Wrote...
b) The threaded portion at the bottom end of the short vertical unpainted
stub welded on at the bottom of my strut weldment was not long enough.
Is the threaded portion on the bottom of your nose gear weldment pinned to
the shoe stub, or is it welded in place?
If it's pinned, we'll be able to make you a longer threaded portion and pin
it in place of your old one.
You also wrote...
f) Another modification that I would want Lyle to make if he made me a new
strut weldment is related to the ring that is welded on at the top of the
unpainted portion of the vertical stub. This ring performs two functions: A)
It provides the bearing surface which stops any further upward movement of
the aluminum shoe (or downward movement of the vertical stub if you prefer);
and B) It has two horns projecting out that, in conjunction with a pin
installed in the upper surface of the aluminum shoe, permits the aluminum
shoe to swivel only so far when making a turn.
Since this welded on ring performs the important function of a bearing
surface between the bottom face of the ring and the upper face of the
aluminum shoe it should be large enough in outer diameter so that one can
use washers as desired (I prefer nylon) to provide the appropriate friction
interface between those two surfaces. At present that ring is not large
enough in outer diameter and appears to exist primarily to provide the two
turn stoppage horns. I would have that ring made larger in outer diameter
and cut out a sector from the circumference that would permit swiveling of
the aluminum shoe and provide stoppage by means of the pin installed in the
top of the aluminum shoe.
To modify your existing weldment with a wider ring, we could add (welding
from the top only) a ring (washer with a cutout) wide enough to place your
favorite washers under it. The top or bottom of your shoe would then need to
be milled to remove equal thickness of the washer that was added.
In addition, you wrote...
I guess my big issue in removing my present strut and shipping it off to you
for either modification / upgrading or to serve as a pattern for a
completely new strut weldment is the fact that my airplane would be grounded
for an indeterminate period of time. I really don't have a need for the
airplane to go any place, but for some reason I tend to get anxious if I
don't have a flyable airplane available. In over 50 years of flying I have
always suffered from this addiction. I am sure that we could overcome this
issue with some communication and coordination.
Most pilots , myself included, suffer this same addiction. I can assure you
I'll do my best to get you back in the air as soon as safely possible. Some
of the variables determining the lead time required are...
1) Time in transit.
2) Amount of work in our shop at that time.
3) Time in transit to and from the heat treating facility.
4) Heat treating facility may also have a backlog.
5) After a weldment has been heat treated, metal tends to move or "spring"
as it's stress relieved. A determination must be made if it's within usable
limits or if it has to be straightened with or without use of heat and if
additional stress relieving is required.
It's usually a 6 week plus or minus turnaround time for the entire process.
During the time when my plane was getting a new engine, I was fortunate
enough to have friends with planes similar to mine. For the cost of an
airport burger or two, I was able to satisfy my hunger for flight.
I will keep you in the loop of nose gear building and let you know if anyone
else wishes to modify or upgrade their old nose wheel assembly. If we get a
handful of builders interested, you can share the cost saving.
If you have any more concerns or questions, please do not hesitate to call
208-476-7740 (8-5 Pacific time)
Lyle Hendricks
Hendricks Mfg., Inc.
www.HendricksMfg.com
208-476-7740
==============================================
-----Original Message-----
From: bakerocb@cox.net [mailto:bakerocb@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 11:52 PM
Cc: kisbuilders@angus.mystery.com; 'TRICKEL, RICH';
helixaviation@btinternet.com
Subject: Re: Tri-R KIS TR-1 Nose Leg
10/22/2009
Hello Lyle, Thanks for your quick response to my email. You wrote:
1) "I built a nose gear weldment for you in 2001."
That is correct. I had a coil spring version of the KIS TR-1 nose gear strut
weldment with the angled streamline tubing that I had obtained from Tri-R
Technologies. I had had the streamline tubing reenforced locally, but some
failures of that streamline tubing by other builders, even with
reenforcement, destroyed my confidence in that configuration.
So I built a shipping box for the strut weldment (I still have the box) and
sent it off to you in Valencia CA in November 2001. You made up two strut
weldments with round angled tubing and had them heat treated by Quality Heat
Treating Inc on 11/14/2001. Your customer PO Number was 111301. I have a
copy of the heat treating certificate number 270014. I don't know who the
other strut was for. You shipped my strut back to me on 11/20/2001.
Also I don't know if the short vertical stub at the bottom of the round
angled tubing was made new by you in November 2001 and welded onto the round
angled tubing or if the short vertical stub at the bottom of the abandoned
streamlined angled tubing was cut off and then used to complete the
weldment. It is in this vertical stub area that the deficiencies exist.
2) "Are you wanting another , or is this for a different aircraft?" and
"Please clarify."
I am wanting another -- or a modified / upgraded rebuild of the one that I
have. The strut weldment that you made up for me was installed on my
airplane pror to first flight (which was in November 2003) and now the plane
has over 250 hours on it. The strut weldment has performed well, but as I
described in my email, I don't have complete confidence in it so have
considered having it replaced or modified / upgraded.
I guess my big issue in removing my present strut and shipping it off to you
for either modification / upgrading or to serve as a pattern for a
completely new strut weldment is the fact that my airplane would be grounded
for an indeterminate period of time. I really don't have a need for the
airplane to go any place, but for some reason I tend to get anxious if I
don't have a flyable airplane available. In over 50 years of flying I have
always suffered from this addiction. I am sure that we could overcome this
issue with some communication and coordination.
3) "P.S. The springs should be obtainable through Mc Master Carr."
I won't be needing a coil spring, the one that I have is fine. But JJ would
need one if he decides to go ahead with the purchase of a new strut from
you. Do you know the McMaster Carr part number for this specific coil
spring?
I'd appreciate being kept in the loop on this subject and when the
opportunity arises I'll probably jump in and ship my strut weldment off to
you for either replacement or modification / upgrade as appropriate. Did any
of my requirements seem out of line or undoable?
OC
PS: I would strongly encourage any KIS TR-1 builders that have any nose gear
strut concerns at all to look real hard at upgrading to this version of the
strut. If any one would like a picture of this version of the strut just
email me direct or post to the group and I will email you direct a picture.
================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lyle Hendricks" <lyle@hendricksmfg.com>
Cc: "'TRICKEL, RICH'" <richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 9:38 PM
Subject: RE: Tri-R KIS TR-1 Nose Leg
O.C.,
I built a nose gear weldment for you in 2001. Are you wanting another , or
is this for a different aircraft? You sent us your existing weldment so we
could insure a matched fit would be manufactured, as several very similar
variations of that nose gear weldment now exist. Please clarify. The price
quoted to JJ was for a one off. If more builders are interested in the new
style of nose gear, the price would be adjusted accordingly.
Lyle Hendricks
Hendricks Mfg., Inc.
208-476-7740
P.S. The springs should be obtainable through Mc Master Carr.
=====================================================
-----Original Message-----
From: bakerocb@cox.net [mailto:bakerocb@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:23 PM
Cc: TRICKEL, RICH; HENDRICKS, LYLE
Subject: Re: Tri-R KIS TR-1 Nose Leg
10/21/2009
Hello JJ, Thank you for your email copied below on this subject -- it was
greatly appreciated.
I think that the strut assembly shown in the attached picture is by far the
best nose gear strut for the KIS TR-1, but I do have some comments.
Lyle wrote:
1) "We can manufacture a new nose gear assembly for you as shown in your
picture less the spring/ strut."
I am not exactly sure what Lyle is referring to when he uses the term
"spring / strut". The coil spring itself came from a less expensive / small
Japanese made automobile. Rich Trickel should be able to identify that part
and one should be able to retrieve one from an automobile salvage yard
(formerly known as a junk yard). If Lyle can make everything, but the coil
spring, and the spring can be obtained separately then it should be possible
to assemble an entire unit.
2) "new nose gear weldment $844.37"
This is the part that I am interested in obtaining. It is the large weldment
painted white in the upper portion of the attached picture. It is made of
some high quality steel and requires heat treatment.
Previously Lyle was reluctant to make one of these for me unless I sent him
my present one. Maybe because I wanted some modifications and corrections
made and he wanted my existing strut in hand in order to see exactly what I
was talking about. Let me describe those modification and corrections:
a) The short vertical stub welded on at the bottom of my strut angled
portion was not perfectly vertical or in alignment with the vertical
cylinder at the top of the weldment. It wasn't off by much, but it could be
detected by the naked eye. The result was that my aluminum shoe swiveling
axis was not perfectly vertical and the nose wheel axle was not perfectly
horizontal and the nose wheel and tire leaned a bit in one direction.
b) The threaded portion at the bottom end of the short vertical unpainted
stub welded on at the bottom of my strut weldment was not long enough. Even
with minimum washers ( I use a combination of flat steel and nylon washers
in the stack) one had to use the very thin version of the castle nut (AN
320) in order to get the nut on far enough to put a cotter key through the
slots in the nut.
c) And also the cotter key hole through the vertical stub was so close to
the end of the stub that there was no confidence in the surrounding
material's structural integrity.
d) And to make matters worse the cotter key hole through the vertical stub
was not exactly through the middle of the stub and it was necessary to file
two of the opposite slots in the castle nut very wide in order to put the
cotter key through both the castle nut and the hole in the vertical stub.
Unfortunately this meant that one's ability to adjust the compression on the
stack was available only in 180 degree increments of nut rotation -- not a
good situation.
e) The solution to the problems cited in a through d above can be solved by:
ensuring the alignment of the vertical stub is correct; making a longer
threaded portion of the vertical stub so that a standard thickness castle
nut (AN 310) may be used; drilling the cotter key hole further from the
bottom end of the vertical stub; and ensuring that the cotter key hole is
drilled exactly through the middle of the vertical stub.
f) Another modification that I would want Lyle to make if he made me a new
strut weldment is related to the ring that is welded on at the top of the
unpainted portion of the vertical stub. This ring performs two functions: A)
It provides the bearing surface which stops any further upward movement of
the aluminum shoe (or downward movement of the vertical stub if you prefer);
and B) It has two horns projecting out that, in conjunction with a pin
installed in the upper surface of the aluminum shoe, permits the aluminum
shoe to swivel only so far when making a turn.
Since this welded on ring performs the important function of a bearing
surface between the bottom face of the ring and the upper face of the
aluminum shoe it should be large enough in outer diameter so that one can
use washers as desired (I prefer nylon) to provide the appropriate friction
interface between those two surfaces. At present that ring is not large
enough in outer diameter and appears to exist primarily to provide the two
turn stoppage horns. I would have that ring made larger in outer diameter
and cut out a sector from the circumference that would permit swiveling of
the aluminum shoe and provide stoppage by means of the pin installed in the
top of the aluminum shoe.
Maybe we can persuade Lyle to go into production and there may be a few
other builders out there that could use a new strut. Please let me know if
you have any questions or comments on this subject. Thanks.
OC
PS: I'll send out a version of this email without the attachment to the
kisbuilders group to see what comes up.
======================================================
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Website Update |
Hi Bob, Actually I think the nose gear components picture was mine. It wa
s strong and did not break when I used it as a brake by plowing an eight fo
ot long furrow in the celery field when my engine went into limp home mode
back in Dec 2006 and I had to do an off field landing.
Incidentally, would you like some crash pictures showing the KIS is strong
enough to ensure the pilot survives a 60 mph off field landing? Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Reed
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 9:03 PM
Subject: KIS-List: Website Update
All,
Just uploaded several updates to my website.
I added a photo of OC Baker's TR-1 Nose Gear Componets that have been dis
cussed in a recent thread.
I also added an update on MY PROGRESS to show that I haven't been sleepin
g all summer. I must admit that I never anticipated taking as much time to
build the Pressure Cowling as it is taking but I think it is coming along
well and should be finished in a couple of weeks.
www.kisbuild.onfinal18.com
Have a great day,
Bob Reed
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Website Update |
Absolutely!- And thanks no matter where the photo originated, it is a goo
d example.- I will include it with your other shots.=0A=0ABob=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Larry David <lgdavid@roadrunner
.com>=0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, October 23, 2009 2:56:21
PM=0ASubject: Re: KIS-List: Website Update=0A=0A=0AHi Bob,- Actually I t
hink the nose gear components picture was mine.- It was strong and did no
t break when I used it as a brake by-plowing an eight foot long-furrow
in the celery field when my engine went into limp home mode back in Dec 200
6 and I had to do an off field landing.- =0AIncidentally, would you like
some crash pictures showing the KIS is strong enough to ensure the pilot su
rvives a 60 mph off field landing?- Larry=0A----- Original Message -----
=0A>From: Robert Reed =0A>To: kis-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Thursday, Oc
tober 22, 2009 9:03 PM=0A>Subject: KIS-List: Website Update=0A>=0A>=0A>All,
=0A>-=0A>Just uploaded several updates to my website.- =0A>-=0A>I add
ed a photo of OC Baker's TR-1 Nose Gear Componets that have been discussed
in a recent thread.=0A>-=0A>I also added an update on MY PROGRESS to show
that I haven't been sleeping all summer.- I must admit that I never anti
cipated taking as much time to build the Pressure Cowling as it is taking b
ut I think it is coming along well and should be finished in a couple of we
eks.=0A>-=0A>www.kisbuild.onfinal18.com=0A>-=0A>Have a great day,=0A>
-=0A>Bob Reed=0A>-=0A>=0A>=0A>://www.matronics..com/Navigator?KIS-List
=======
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Website Update |
Not a problem for me. OC's working the problem and it logically belongs wi
th his stuff. I just didn't want people complaining to him if they didn't
like the picture since it was not his fault if it is wrong.
:-)
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Reed
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Website Update
Absolutely! And thanks no matter where the photo originated, it is a goo
d example. I will include it with your other shots.
Bob
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: Larry David <lgdavid@roadrunner.com>
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 2:56:21 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Website Update
Hi Bob, Actually I think the nose gear components picture was mine. It
was strong and did not break when I used it as a brake by plowing an eight
foot long furrow in the celery field when my engine went into limp home mod
e back in Dec 2006 and I had to do an off field landing.
Incidentally, would you like some crash pictures showing the KIS is stron
g enough to ensure the pilot survives a 60 mph off field landing? Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Reed
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 9:03 PM
Subject: KIS-List: Website Update
All,
Just uploaded several updates to my website.
I added a photo of OC Baker's TR-1 Nose Gear Componets that have been d
iscussed in a recent thread.
I also added an update on MY PROGRESS to show that I haven't been sleep
ing all summer. I must admit that I never anticipated taking as much time
to build the Pressure Cowling as it is taking but I think it is coming alon
g well and should be finished in a couple of weeks.
www.kisbuild.onfinal18.com
Have a great day,
Bob Reed
://www.matronics..com/Navigator?KIS-List
ics.com
.matronics.com/contribution
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