Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:39 AM - Alternator quit working, Coupling ()
2. 07:53 AM - Re: Alternator quit working, Coupling (F. Tim Yoder)
3. 09:33 AM - KIS TR-1 Air Speeds ()
4. 12:52 PM - Re: Alternator quit working, Coupling (JOHN JACKSON)
5. 05:43 PM - Fuel line fittings (Mike Pienaar)
6. 06:53 PM - Re: Fuel line fittings ()
7. 07:11 PM - Re: Alternator quit working, Coupling ()
8. 09:40 PM - Re: Fuel line fittings (Mike Pienaar)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Alternator quit working, Coupling |
10/27/2009
Hello Travis, You wrote:
1) "My alternator coupling failed...AGAIN!"
Bummer -- I feel a bit guilty because I steered you in the direction of
Drake back in November 2006. The history of your alternator couplings is not
clear to me:
a) Your original TCM factory provided coupling that came with your engine
failed after how many hours?
b) You sent the original failed coupling off to Drake and they refurbished
it. How many hours did you get on this refurbished coupling before it
failed?
2) "I emailed Drake Air this morning and was inquiring as to why their part
failed...prematurely...in
my opinion!"
In addition to this query to Drake (from whom you may not get a completely
unbiased answer) I would call TCM Technical Services (1-888-826-5465) and
ask some questions:
a) What is the expected service hours life of their elastomeric coupling?
b) What factors could shorten that service life?
c) Do they have any info from the field on the durability of Drake's
coupling versus TCM's coupling?
d) Who makes the TCM coupling?
You can see where this is heading. It may turn out that a $1,600 TCM
coupling is a more cost effective item than a $450 Drake refurbished
coupling. The durability of the Drake refurbished coupling would be
dependent upon: A) The quality of the elastomeric material used, and B) The
quality of the workmanship in casting / assembling the coupling.
Can you recall how the original TCM coupling failed? Was it a shearing of
the elastomeric or was it a separation of the elastomeric from the metal
parts?
Similarly, how did the Drake refurbished coupling fail? Was it a shearing of
the elastomeric or was it a separation of the elastomeic from the metal
parts?
Regardless of which coupling source you decide to use you may want to apply
the torque test to it before you install it. The torque test is described in
the TCM SB95-3B.
Good luck and please keep us informed.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
PS: I am flying a KIS TR-1 with a TCM IO-240 B9B engine with a Prince P tip
prop. 263 hours tach time with the engine above 1,500 RPM. With my new wheel
pants I can get 140 knots indicated airspeed.
==========================================================
Time: 01:18:14 PM PST US
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Continental IO-240: Alternator quit working,
Coupling
Failed
From: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
The past 254 hours have been great...until yesterday. My alternator
coupling failed...AGAIN!
I had purchased a rebuilt unit from Drake Air (as noted above
in this thread). $450 versus $1,600 from TCM for a new one.
Is there any reason this part should fail so soon? Oil, hours, temps,
alternator
load, how the load is applied, etc?
I emailed Drake Air this morning and was inquiring as to why their part
failed...prematurely...in
my opinion!
I have to pull my engine to remove the alternator. ...insult to injury! :?
Again...I welcome input from the forum!
Travis :)
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269543#269543
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator quit working, Coupling |
'OC',
What altitude and RPM were you at 140 K? What is your max RPM and speed?
Tim
PS: Anything new from Jesse?
----- Original Message -----
From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
<aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>; <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 5:37 AM
Subject: KIS-List: Alternator quit working, Coupling
>
> 10/27/2009
>
> Hello Travis, You wrote:
>
> 1) "My alternator coupling failed...AGAIN!"
>
> Bummer -- I feel a bit guilty because I steered you in the direction of
> Drake back in November 2006. The history of your alternator couplings is
> not clear to me:
>
> a) Your original TCM factory provided coupling that came with your engine
> failed after how many hours?
>
> b) You sent the original failed coupling off to Drake and they refurbished
> it. How many hours did you get on this refurbished coupling before it
> failed?
>
> 2) "I emailed Drake Air this morning and was inquiring as to why their
> part failed...prematurely...in
> my opinion!"
>
> In addition to this query to Drake (from whom you may not get a completely
> unbiased answer) I would call TCM Technical Services (1-888-826-5465) and
> ask some questions:
>
> a) What is the expected service hours life of their elastomeric coupling?
>
> b) What factors could shorten that service life?
>
> c) Do they have any info from the field on the durability of Drake's
> coupling versus TCM's coupling?
>
> d) Who makes the TCM coupling?
>
> You can see where this is heading. It may turn out that a $1,600 TCM
> coupling is a more cost effective item than a $450 Drake refurbished
> coupling. The durability of the Drake refurbished coupling would be
> dependent upon: A) The quality of the elastomeric material used, and B)
> The quality of the workmanship in casting / assembling the coupling.
>
> Can you recall how the original TCM coupling failed? Was it a shearing of
> the elastomeric or was it a separation of the elastomeric from the metal
> parts?
>
> Similarly, how did the Drake refurbished coupling fail? Was it a shearing
> of the elastomeric or was it a separation of the elastomeic from the metal
> parts?
>
> Regardless of which coupling source you decide to use you may want to
> apply the torque test to it before you install it. The torque test is
> described in the TCM SB95-3B.
>
> Good luck and please keep us informed.
>
> 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
> understand knowledge."
>
> PS: I am flying a KIS TR-1 with a TCM IO-240 B9B engine with a Prince P
> tip prop. 263 hours tach time with the engine above 1,500 RPM. With my new
> wheel pants I can get 140 knots indicated airspeed.
>
> ==========================================================
>
> Time: 01:18:14 PM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Continental IO-240: Alternator quit
> working, Coupling
> Failed
> From: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
>
>
> The past 254 hours have been great...until yesterday. My alternator
> coupling failed...AGAIN!
> I had purchased a rebuilt unit from Drake Air (as noted above
> in this thread). $450 versus $1,600 from TCM for a new one.
>
> Is there any reason this part should fail so soon? Oil, hours, temps,
> alternator
> load, how the load is applied, etc?
>
> I emailed Drake Air this morning and was inquiring as to why their part
> failed...prematurely...in
> my opinion!
>
> I have to pull my engine to remove the alternator. ...insult to injury!
> :?
>
> Again...I welcome input from the forum!
>
> Travis :)
>
> --------
> Travis Rayner
> Mobile, AL
> Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
> Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
> ADI-II Autopilot
> AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269543#269543
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | KIS TR-1 Air Speeds |
10/27/2009
Hello Tim, You wrote:
1) "What altitude and RPM were you at 140 K?"
I was at 2,000 feet MSL. My RPM nudged above 2,800 RPM a few times (it was
bumpy) so I had to throttle back a bit. Then when I leaned the engine out a
bit the RPM went back up near 2,800.
I don't have enough nose down trim at higher airspeeds and heavier loads so
I had to hold a lot of forward stick pressure. When I anticipate flying fast
and with a heavy load I normally tape an aluminum trim tab on my elevator to
help out -- I had not done that yesterday. I'll try again one of these days
with the tab taped on.
2) "What is your max RPM and speed?"
Well it looks like my max RPM is very close to 2,800 RPM and I may have to
throttle back to keep it at that limit. Right now I would say that my max
speed is an indicated 140 knots. I don't spend a lot of time looking at high
speed numbers because I am not in a hurry to get anyplace.
I envision that my cross country cruise (if I ever do go any place) is going
to be at 2550 RPM with a fuel flow of 7.5 gallons per hour. Don't know what
that is going to yield in the way of airspeed -- maybe around 135 knots
indicated.
3) "PS: Anything new from Jesse?"
Nothing recent from Jesse.
OC
==================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Alternator quit working, Coupling
>
> 'OC',
>
> What altitude and RPM were you at 140 K? What is your max RPM and speed?
>
> Tim
>
> PS: Anything new from Jesse?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator quit working, Coupling |
Travis=0A=0AI had my alternator elastomeric coupling shear after about 80 h
ours.- After some internet searching I found there is an alternative type
available that has a mechanical link and uses a rubber bushing for shock a
bsorbtion.=0A=0AI also found that the elastomeric couplings shear as a resu
lt of kick-back during start-up.- Have you checked you magneto timing?=0A
=0AJJ=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "bakerocb@cox.
net" <bakerocb@cox.net>=0ATo: "KIS-LIST, MATRONICS" <kis-list@matronics.com
>; aeroelectric-list@matronics.com; flyboytr@bellsouth.net=0ASent: Tuesday,
27 October, 2009 12:37:44=0ASubject: KIS-List: Alternator quit working, Co
009=0A=0AHello Travis, You wrote:=0A=0A1) "My alternator coupling failed...
AGAIN!"=0A=0ABummer -- I feel a bit guilty because I steered you in the dir
ection of Drake back in November 2006. The history of your alternator coupl
ings is not clear to me:=0A=0Aa) Your original TCM factory provided couplin
g that came with your engine failed after how many hours?=0A=0Ab) You sent
the original failed coupling off to Drake and they refurbished it. How many
hours did you get on this refurbished coupling before it failed?=0A=0A2) "
I emailed Drake Air this morning and was inquiring as to why their part fai
led...prematurely...in=0Amy opinion!"=0A=0AIn addition to this query to Dra
ke (from whom you may not get a completely unbiased answer) I would call TC
M Technical Services (1-888-826-5465) and ask some questions:=0A=0Aa) What
is the expected service hours life of their elastomeric coupling?=0A=0Ab) W
hat factors could shorten that service life?=0A=0Ac) Do they have any info
from the field on the durability of Drake's coupling versus TCM's coupling?
=0A=0Ad) Who makes the TCM coupling?=0A=0AYou can see where this is heading
. It may turn out that a $1,600 TCM coupling is a more cost effective item
than a $450 Drake refurbished coupling. The durability of the Drake refurbi
shed coupling would be dependent upon: A) The quality of the elastomeric ma
terial used, and B) The quality of the workmanship in casting / assembling
the coupling.=0A=0ACan you recall how the original TCM coupling failed? Was
it a shearing of the elastomeric or was it a separation of the elastomeric
from the metal parts?=0A=0ASimilarly, how did the Drake refurbished coupli
ng fail? Was it a shearing of the elastomeric or was it a separation of the
elastomeic from the metal parts?=0A=0ARegardless of which coupling source
you decide to use you may want to apply the torque test to it before you in
stall it. The torque test is described in the TCM SB95-3B.=0A=0AGood luck a
nd please keep us informed.=0A=0A'OC' Says: "The best investment we can mak
e is the effort to gather and understand knowledge."=0A=0APS: I am flying a
KIS TR-1 with a TCM IO-240 B9B engine with a Prince P tip prop. 263 hours
tach time with the engine above 1,500 RPM. With my new wheel pants I can ge
t 140 knots indicated airspeed.=0A=0A============
=======================0A=0ATim
e: 01:18:14 PM PST US=0ASubject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Continental IO-240:
Alternator quit working, Coupling=0AFailed=0AFrom: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr@be
llsouth.net>=0A=0A=0AThe past 254 hours have been great...until yesterday.
- My alternator coupling failed...AGAIN!=0AI had purchased a rebuilt unit
from Drake Air (as noted above=0Ain this thread).- $450 versus $1,600 fr
om TCM for a new one.=0A=0AIs there any reason this part should fail so soo
n?- Oil, hours, temps, alternator=0Aload, how the load is applied, etc?
=0A=0AI emailed Drake Air this morning and was inquiring as to why their pa
rt failed...prematurely...in=0Amy opinion!=0A=0AI have to pull my engine to
remove the alternator.- ...insult to injury! :?=0A=0AAgain...I welcome i
nput from the forum!=0A=0ATravis :)=0A=0A--------=0ATravis Rayner=0AMobile,
AL=0ASkystar Vixen, N-789DF=0AContinental IO-240,- Prince P-Tip Prop=0AA
DI-II Autopilot=0AAnyWhereMap Navigation with weather=0A=0A=0ARead this top
ic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269543#2
=============
Message 5
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| Subject: | Fuel line fittings |
How do I shorten the mounting distance between 2 items ( my filter and
fuel pump) both with male AN6 fittings. The shortest length of solid
aluminum tube I can make up is +/- 2 inches. It would also help if I can
get an elbow with a female AN fitting but that seems not to be
available. If I bend solid aluminum tube the radius and the tail needed
for the fitting takes a lot of space.
Thanks
Mike
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel line fittings |
10/27/2009
Hello Mike, It is a bit difficult to envision your set up. Are these two
items in line or mounted side by side on a bulkhead? I have some potential
solutions in mind, but it would be helpful if you could take a picture with
a digital camera and post it to this list. A direct copy to me would also
expedite things.
There are many kinds of fittings beyond those sold by Aircraft Spruce -- I
am sure that there is a solution. Check out part numbers 934106, 915106,
921106, 981506, and 983206 on this web page just to get some ideas flowing:
http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/index.php?shop=&dept=Aluminum
OC
=========================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Pienaar" <mjpienaar@shaw.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: KIS-List: Fuel line fittings
How do I shorten the mounting distance between 2 items ( my filter and fuel
pump) both with male AN6 fittings. The shortest length of solid aluminum
tube I can make up is +/- 2 inches. It would also help if I can get an elbow
with a female AN fitting but that seems not to be available. If I bend solid
aluminum tube the radius and the tail needed for the fitting takes a lot of
space.
Thanks
Mike
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator quit working, Coupling |
10/27/2009
Hello JJ, Yes, that is correct -- there are two types of alternator drive
couplings. Both types are shown in SB95-3B, see here:
http://www.qualityaircraftaccessories.com/uploads/bulletins/SB95-3B.pdf
The Figure 1, many piece coupling, requires an inspection every 500 hours.
The one piece coupling only requires inspection at engine overhaul or when
slippage is suspected.
Of course if the one piece coupling is failing after 200 plus hours and the
many piece coupling lasts for 500 hours the many piece coupling may be the
better (and cheaper) way to go.
OC
====================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "JOHN JACKSON" <helixaviation@btinternet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Alternator quit working, Coupling
Travis
I had my alternator elastomeric coupling shear after about 80 hours. After
some internet searching I found there is an alternative type available that
has a mechanical link and uses a rubber bushing for shock absorbtion.
I also found that the elastomeric couplings shear as a result of kick-back
during start-up. Have you checked you magneto timing?
JJ
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel line fittings |
Thanks for your help OC, I'm afraid there are no photo's yet, I was just
laying the parts out and would like to keep the fuel filter in the wing well
outside the fuselage to reduce spillage if I ever change or clean it if
that makes sense.
The parts you mention (934106, 915106, 921106) appear to be exactly what I
am looking for.
Thanks for your help
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Fuel line fittings
>
> 10/27/2009
>
> Hello Mike, It is a bit difficult to envision your set up. Are these two
> items in line or mounted side by side on a bulkhead? I have some potential
> solutions in mind, but it would be helpful if you could take a picture
> with
> a digital camera and post it to this list. A direct copy to me would also
> expedite things.
>
> There are many kinds of fittings beyond those sold by Aircraft Spruce -- I
> am sure that there is a solution. Check out part numbers 934106, 915106,
> 921106, 981506, and 983206 on this web page just to get some ideas
> flowing:
>
> http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/index.php?shop=&dept=Aluminum
>
> OC
>
> =========================================================
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Pienaar" <mjpienaar@shaw.ca>
> To: "KISBUILDERS" <kis-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:37 PM
> Subject: KIS-List: Fuel line fittings
>
>
> How do I shorten the mounting distance between 2 items ( my filter and
> fuel
> pump) both with male AN6 fittings. The shortest length of solid aluminum
> tube I can make up is +/- 2 inches. It would also help if I can get an
> elbow
> with a female AN fitting but that seems not to be available. If I bend
> solid
> aluminum tube the radius and the tail needed for the fitting takes a lot
> of
> space.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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