---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/28/10: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:33 AM - Re: Elevator and aileron push tubes (jerzy krasinski) 2. 08:47 AM - Re: Elevator and aileron push tubes (Richard Trickel) 3. 08:49 AM - Re: Elevator and aileron push tubes (Bill Schertz) 4. 01:57 PM - Re: Elevator and aileron push tubes () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:08 AM PST US From: jerzy krasinski Subject: Re: KIS-List: Elevator and aileron push tubes Do you know any more details? - I had an aileron disconnected while flying a glider. The controls of the gl ider got very asymmetric but the glider was controllable and I landed on my airport. I am surprised that the loss of one aileron resulted in accident. Somehow t he aileron must have been jammed in an extreme position. - Jerzy --- On Wed, 1/27/10, bakerocb@cox.net wrote: From: bakerocb@cox.net Subject: Re: KIS-List: Elevator and aileron push tubes 1/27/2010 Hello Mike, Definitely the hard rivets. Attached is a picture of a KIS TR-1 that had an aileron push tube disconnec t. It was never conclusively proved what caused the end of the aileron tube to become disconnected. Could have sheared off. 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and und erstand knowledge." PS: Very dramatic story of how the pilot survived. ===================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Pienaar" Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 2:20 AM Subject: KIS-List: Elevator and aileron push tubes Does one use soft or hard (A or AD) aluminum rivets to secure the threaded rod ends in the elevator and aileron push/pull tubes Thanks Mike ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:49 AM PST US From: Richard Trickel Subject: Re: KIS-List: Elevator and aileron push tubes i THINK i REMEMBER THE STORY NOW.- the push pull tube from the belcrank t o the aileron was never riveted by the original builder.- This guy was th e second owner and the plane had several hundred hours flying like that.- PAYS TO DO A PROPER ANUAL INSPECTION ESPECIALLY WHEN YOUR BUYING SOMEONE E LSES PLANE. Rich --- On Thu, 1/28/10, jerzy krasinski wrote: From: jerzy krasinski Subject: Re: KIS-List: Elevator and aileron push tubes Do you know any more details? - I had an aileron disconnected while flying a glider. The controls of the gl ider got very asymmetric but the glider was controllable and I landed on my airport. I am surprised that the loss of one aileron resulted in accident. Somehow t he aileron must have been jammed in an extreme position. - Jerzy --- On Wed, 1/27/10, bakerocb@cox.net wrote: From: bakerocb@cox.net Subject: Re: KIS-List: Elevator and aileron push tubes 1/27/2010 Hello Mike, Definitely the hard rivets. Attached is a picture of a KIS TR-1 that had an aileron push tube disconnec t. It was never conclusively proved what caused the end of the aileron tube to become disconnected. Could have sheared off. 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and und erstand knowledge." PS: Very dramatic story of how the pilot survived. ===================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Pienaar" Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 2:20 AM Subject: KIS-List: Elevator and aileron push tubes Does one use soft or hard (A or AD) aluminum rivets to secure the threaded rod ends in the elevator and aileron push/pull tubes Thanks Mike =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:42 AM PST US From: "Bill Schertz" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Elevator and aileron push tubes As I recall, the aileron end fitting was NOT riveted on that airplane. It had flown for several years before separating. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS Phase I testing From: jerzy krasinski Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 10:30 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Elevator and aileron push tubes Do you know any more details? I had an aileron disconnected while flying a glider. The controls of the glider got very asymmetric but the glider was controllable and I landed on my airport. I am surprised that the loss of one aileron resulted in accident. Somehow the aileron must have been jammed in an extreme position. Jerzy --- On Wed, 1/27/10, bakerocb@cox.net wrote: From: bakerocb@cox.net Subject: Re: KIS-List: Elevator and aileron push tubes To: kis-list@matronics.com, "Mike Pienaar" Date: Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 7:26 AM 1/27/2010 Hello Mike, Definitely the hard rivets. Attached is a picture of a KIS TR-1 that had an aileron push tube disconnect. It was never conclusively proved what caused the end of the aileron tube to become disconnected. Could have sheared off. 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." PS: Very dramatic story of how the pilot survived. ===================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Pienaar" To: "KISBUILDERS" Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 2:20 AM Subject: KIS-List: Elevator and aileron push tubes Does one use soft or hard (A or AD) aluminum rivets to secure the threaded rod ends in the elevator and aileron push/pull tubes Thanks Mike ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:57:47 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: KIS-List: Elevator and aileron push tubes 1/28/2010 Hello Jerzy,You wrote: "Somehow the aileron must have been jammed in an extreme position." That is the conclusion that the accident pilot came to. As to the actual cause of the aileron push tube disconnect that was never conclusively proved. The FAA / NTSB investigators at the scene came to one conclusion and some friends of the accident pilot, who also went to the scene, did not agree with the FAA / NTSB investigators conclusion. The confusion involved: comparing the length of the two respective tubes, the existence or not of rivets and rivet holes in the end of the tube and the fitting, the clean cut end appearance of the tube, and some part(s) that were never found. You can do further research by going to the Matronic search site for the KIS list, searching for "bohemier" and look around Sep 2007. Here is the official accident report, but it may not be entirely accurate: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 070911X01368&key=1 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." ============================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "jerzy krasinski" Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 11:30 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Elevator and aileron push tubes Do you know any more details? I had an aileron disconnected while flying a glider. The controls of the glider got very asymmetric but the glider was controllable and I landed on my airport. I am surprised that the loss of one aileron resulted in accident. Somehow the aileron must have been jammed in an extreme position. Jerzy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.