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1. 05:51 AM - An instrument question ()
2. 11:03 AM - Re: An instrument question (Galin Hernandez)
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| Subject: | An instrument question |
3/24/2010
Hello Charlie, Thanks for your kind words. I applaud your desire to learn.
You wrote:
1) ".......... some time down the road wish to have the aircraft IFR
certified....."
The FAA does not have a set process of having an aircraft IFR certified. The
tests and inspections required by 14CFR 91.413 are commonly referred to as a
"VFR cert".
The tests and inspections required by both 91.411 and 91.413 are commonly
referred to as an "IFR cert", but accomplishment and sign off of those tests
and inspections do not constitute any total approval of an experimental
amateur built aircraft for IFR flight.
The attached table will give you an overview of what is required for IFR
flight for an experimental amateur built aircraft.
2) "I must have installed instrumentation that is compliant to a TSO. Do I
understand that correctly?"
If we define instrumentation as a mechanical, electrical, or electronic
device installed in an aircraft that gives the pilot information regarding
the aircraft's internal status then the answer to your question is: No the
instrumentation does not have to be TSO'd.
But if you have devices installed that give information out externally to
the aircraft, or obtain information from sources external to the aircraft,
then the requirement for TSO'd hardware can become mandatory depending upon
what the pilot is doing with the aircraft. One needs to turn to the
regulations to determine which devices and which activities fall into the
TSO required category.
3) "Also, if correct, is this limited to flight instruments or are engine
management instruments (oil pressure, tach, etc) covered as well?"
I think that the answer to 2 above responds to this question.
4) "I am in the process of putting my panel together now and really don't
want to preclude IFR at some future time by putting a lot of cash into
instruments that would have to be replaced should I
wish to have an IFR airplane."
Good thinking. If, for example, you buy a crappy altimeter that can not pass
the 91.411 tests, or be adjusted or repaired to pass the tests sometime in
the future, then you will either have to replace it or limit your flying to
VFR.
5) "And if you don't mind, point me to the right place in the FAR maze so I
may keep it for future reference."
Unfortunately there is no one right place to look. I think that the little
static system test exercise recently posted (now available on Bob Nuckolls'
web site) showed us how interdependent the many different 14CFR provisions
can be. Hopefully the attached table will give the reader a good head start
on self education in this arena and this web site give us free almost
instant access to those regulations:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14tab_02.tpl
6) "Thanks again for your expert advice."
You are welcome. I hope that your questions and the responses helped to
educate others as well. I do not consider myself an expert in any area
(except perhaps in trying to avoid annoying my wife and after over 50 years
I don't seem to be doing so well in that arena either), but instead a
willing, and sharing, student.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
========================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Smith" <ctsmith@netsurfusa.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 7:30 PM
Subject: An instrument question
> OC,
>
> You're probably the ultimate guru of FAR's that I have contact with. May
> I ask you a couple questions?
>
> I understand from what you have written on the subject previously that, if
> I were so inclined, I am permitted to go to an auto parts store, purchase
> and install junk instrumentation in my homebuilt. But, should I at some
> time down the road wish to have the aircraft IFR certified, I must have
> installed instrumentation that is compliant to a TSO. Do I understand
> that correctly? Also, if correct, is this limited to flight instruments
> or are engine management instruments (oil pressure, tach, etc) covered as
> well? I am in the process of putting my panel together now and really
> don't want to preclude IFR at some future time by putting a lot of cash
> into instruments that would have to be replaced should I wish to have an
> IFR airplane. I understand that there are a whole host of other
> requirements (re. your static system recertification post) but for now I
> am just concerned with the panel.
>
> Thanks again for your expert advice. And if you don't mind, point me to
> the right place in the FAR maze so I may keep it for future reference.
>
>
> Charlie
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: An instrument question |
My 2cents. If you are still in the panel planning stage get with the
avionics shop who you feel might be doing the IFR "sign off" and have them
point you in the right direction from day one. Decisions made now will
greatly affect your cost should you ever decide to go IFR. The 1st IFR "sign
off" in the logbook will be the most critical. After that one other avionics
shops normally have little problems with the fact it is an experimental and
upgrades are easier to do
I would have it basic IFR from day one, then upgrade as you see the need.
Besides being able to say it is IFR really helps if you ever decide to sell
it. Putting in an adequate used com/nav radio, xponder, won't cost you that
much more when you look at thee overall amount you will eventually have
invested in the airplane. It was an important reason I bought SN 4052 from
Dave.
Galin
N819PR
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 8:45 AM, <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> 3/24/2010
>
> Hello Charlie, Thanks for your kind words. I applaud your desire to learn.
> You wrote:
>
> 1) ".......... some time down the road wish to have the aircraft IFR
> certified....."
>
> The FAA does not have a set process of having an aircraft IFR certified.
> The
> tests and inspections required by 14CFR 91.413 are commonly referred to as
> a
> "VFR cert".
>
> The tests and inspections required by both 91.411 and 91.413 are commonly
> referred to as an "IFR cert", but accomplishment and sign off of those
> tests
> and inspections do not constitute any total approval of an experimental
> amateur built aircraft for IFR flight.
>
> The attached table will give you an overview of what is required for IFR
> flight for an experimental amateur built aircraft.
>
> 2) "I must have installed instrumentation that is compliant to a TSO. Do I
> understand that correctly?"
>
> If we define instrumentation as a mechanical, electrical, or electronic
> device installed in an aircraft that gives the pilot information regarding
> the aircraft's internal status then the answer to your question is: No the
> instrumentation does not have to be TSO'd.
>
> But if you have devices installed that give information out externally to
> the aircraft, or obtain information from sources external to the aircraft,
> then the requirement for TSO'd hardware can become mandatory depending upon
> what the pilot is doing with the aircraft. One needs to turn to the
> regulations to determine which devices and which activities fall into the
> TSO required category.
>
> 3) "Also, if correct, is this limited to flight instruments or are engine
> management instruments (oil pressure, tach, etc) covered as well?"
>
> I think that the answer to 2 above responds to this question.
>
> 4) "I am in the process of putting my panel together now and really don't
> want to preclude IFR at some future time by putting a lot of cash into
> instruments that would have to be replaced should I
> wish to have an IFR airplane."
>
> Good thinking. If, for example, you buy a crappy altimeter that can not
> pass
> the 91.411 tests, or be adjusted or repaired to pass the tests sometime in
> the future, then you will either have to replace it or limit your flying to
> VFR.
>
> 5) "And if you don't mind, point me to the right place in the FAR maze so I
> may keep it for future reference."
>
> Unfortunately there is no one right place to look. I think that the little
> static system test exercise recently posted (now available on Bob Nuckolls'
> web site) showed us how interdependent the many different 14CFR provisions
> can be. Hopefully the attached table will give the reader a good head start
> on self education in this arena and this web site give us free almost
> instant access to those regulations:
>
>
> http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14tab_02.tpl
>
> 6) "Thanks again for your expert advice."
>
> You are welcome. I hope that your questions and the responses helped to
> educate others as well. I do not consider myself an expert in any area
> (except perhaps in trying to avoid annoying my wife and after over 50 years
> I don't seem to be doing so well in that arena either), but instead a
> willing, and sharing, student.
>
> 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
> understand knowledge."
>
> ========================================
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie Smith" <ctsmith@netsurfusa.net
> >
> To: <bakerocb@cox.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 7:30 PM
> Subject: An instrument question
>
>
> OC,
>>
>> You're probably the ultimate guru of FAR's that I have contact with. May
>> I ask you a couple questions?
>>
>> I understand from what you have written on the subject previously that, if
>> I were so inclined, I am permitted to go to an auto parts store, purchase
>> and install junk instrumentation in my homebuilt. But, should I at some
>> time down the road wish to have the aircraft IFR certified, I must have
>> installed instrumentation that is compliant to a TSO. Do I understand
>> that correctly? Also, if correct, is this limited to flight instruments
>> or are engine management instruments (oil pressure, tach, etc) covered as
>> well? I am in the process of putting my panel together now and really
>> don't want to preclude IFR at some future time by putting a lot of cash
>> into instruments that would have to be replaced should I wish to have an
>> IFR airplane. I understand that there are a whole host of other
>> requirements (re. your static system recertification post) but for now I
>> am just concerned with the panel.
>>
>> Thanks again for your expert advice. And if you don't mind, point me to
>> the right place in the FAR maze so I may keep it for future reference.
>>
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>
>
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