---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/18/10: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:11 PM - Landing the KIS TR-1 () 2. 06:06 PM - Kis engine mount (bruce@rotaryresources.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:11:41 PM PST US From: Subject: KIS-List: Landing the KIS TR-1 4/18/2010 Hello Fellow KIS TR-1 Fliers, Below for your information -- an email exchange with a pilot that I am checking out in my KIS TR-1. OC ========================================================= > 4/18/2010 > > Hello XXXX, You wrote: > > 1) "With the "coke bottle" design on 600C I can see why a molecule of air > says sayonara when it comes to that curve." > > Yes. The problem is not so much that the airflow detaches in the wing to > fuselage junction area, but that it may intermittently detach and re > attach unexpectedly depending upon energy in the air flow or the angle of > attack as you flare for landing. There are three ways to, at least > partially, solve or alleviate this problem: > > A) Make the wing to fuselage fairing modification like Julian Bone did to > promote air flow attachment of longer duration as the angle of attack is > increased. Disadvantage is a lot of work and additional weight. > > B) Feed in some higher energy air flow parallel to the wing to fuselage > junction (see B1 below) or higher energy turbulent air flow (see B2 > below): > > B1) Have some engine power above idle during the landing flare until touch > down or just inches above touch down. Three disadvantages to this: a) Any, > or too much, engine power above idle may cause floating in ground effect > and extend touch down point and landing roll out. b) Any, or too much, > engine power above idle can encourage balooning if one is not extremely > cautious about rate of pitch increase. c) If you mis judge your height > above touch down and go to idle too soon you risk a sharp, surprising nose > drop. {a and b above are why I do not consider the KIS TR-1 to be a good > candidate for short field operations.} > > B2) Introduce some higher energy air into this wing to fuselage junction > area with some aerodynamic gimmick such as a vortex generator. This is the > technique that the Cirrus people adopted with their more recent models > with that little device that looks like an antenna just forward of the > wing leading edges on both sides of the fuselage. Disadvantages are maybe > a very small drag and weight penalty plus the trial and error effort > involved in coming up with the right size, shape, and location of the > vortex generators. I plan to try this approach out one of these days. > > 2) "With two guys on board I read the stall at 71 knots; normally you fly > the approach at 1.3 times stall" > > Yes. I am still a little squishy about just exactly what the stall speed > is because the airplane seems to be very sensitive to loading / CG. It > handles much differently (poorly) with two people and a full load of fuel > than with one person and a light fuel load. > > I greatly appreciate your interest and insight. Please let me know when > you want to try Fam 2A. > > OC > > > ============================================================ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 8:08 PM > Subject: Stuff > > >> OC: >> Thanks for the photos of the KIS wing-fuselage fairings. With the "coke >> bottle" design on 600C I can see why a molecule of air says sayonara when >> it comes to that curve. Losing elevator authority in the flare with idle >> rpm is a hairy situation, particularly when you're so close to a stall. >> With two guys on board I read the stall at 71 knots; normally you fly the >> approach at 1.3 times stall . . . which in your case would be 92 knots . >> . . which I'm sure would float you from HEF to HWY. > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:49 PM PST US From: bruce@rotaryresources.com Subject: KIS-List: Kis engine mount This question probably shows everybody how "in the dark" I really am with my project, but I wanted to know if there was a current source for the d ynafocal mount for a cruiser. If not, does anyone have the prop centerlin e dimensions and any offset required? Bruce Turrentine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.