Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:25 PM - Re: Flight Manual (Robert Anderson)
2. 07:33 PM - Re: Flight Manual (Robert Anderson)
3. 07:41 PM - Re: Flight Manual (Galin Hernandez)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Manual |
Hi OC
Thanks' for your reply. I am well aware that I have asked this question bef
ore, however unlike gravity, the FAA is more than willing to change the rul
es. After reading the article in Sport Aviation I thought I would ask it ag
ain. Maybe their might be a new answer.
-
I have a couple of new questions.
Do you have a flight manual in your plane?
Have you ever been ramp checked or have first hand knowledge of someone who
has that did not have a flight manual? If so, how did that go?
-
Thanks' in advance.
Bob Anderson
-
--- On Thu, 6/3/10, bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
From: bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Flight Manual
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Anderson" <kcruiser1947@yahoo.co
m>
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 6:54 AM
Subject: KIS-List: Flight Manual
Hi Guys
Just read article Ramp Check page 16 Sport Aviation.
Are we required to have a flight manual? Our planes do not come with one.
If so what info needs to be in it?
I have check sheets that cover Start up, Taxi, Take off, Landing, and emerg
ency.
Bob A
==================
6/3/2010
Hello Bob, Please see below a copy of my response the last time that you as
ked this question.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
============
4/11/2008
Hello Bob, My apologies for the tardy answer. My goal is to have only 20
emails in my in / pending box -- right now I have 138 so you can see that I
am a bit behind.
To answer your question -- I think the short answer is that the FAA intends
that you do have an Airplane Flight Manual for your airplane, but has no
enforcement mechanism in place. I'll explain:
1) First off let's assume you are asking about an FAA required publication
called an "Airplane Flight Manual". We'll leave the discussion about the
differences between AFM (Airplane Flight Manuals), POH (Pilot Operating
Handbooks), and PIM (Pilot Information Manuals) for another day.
2) Here is an excerpt regarding certification of amateur built experimental
aircraft from FAA Order 8130.2F, including change 3, Section 9. Paragraph e
.
(5),
"Advising Applicants. Second, the flight test data is used to develop an
accurate and complete aircraft flight manual and to establish emergency
procedures."
3) Your airplane's Operating Limitations say this:
" In addition, this aircraft must be operated in accordance with applicable
air traffic and general operating rules of part 91 and all additional
limitations herein prescribed under the provisions of =A7 91.319(i). These
operating limitations are a part of Form 8130-7, and are to be carried in
the aircraft at all times and be available to the pilot in command of the
aircraft."
4) Now let's see what FAR Section 91.9 says:
"Civil aircraft flight manual, marking, and placard requirements.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, no person may
operate a civil aircraft without complying with the operating limitations
specified in the approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual, markings,
and placards, or as otherwise prescribed by the certificating authority of
the country of registry.
(b) No person may operate a U.S.-registered civil aircraft-
(1) For which an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual is required by =A721.
5
of this chapter unless there is available in the aircraft a current,
approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual or the manual provided for in
=A7121.141(b); and
(2) For which an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual is not required by
=A721.5 of this chapter, unless there is available in the aircraft a curren
t
approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual, approved manual material,
markings, and placards, or any combination thereof."
5) Now let's see what FAR Sec 21.5 says:
"21.5---Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual.
(a) With each airplane or rotorcraft that was not type certificated with an
Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual and that has had no flight time prior
to March 1, 1979, the holder of a Type Certificate (including a Supplementa
l
Type Certificate) or the licensee of a Type Certificate shall make availabl
e
to the owner at the time of delivery of the aircraft a current approved
Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual.
(b) The Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual required by paragraph (a) of
this section must contain the following information:
(1) The operating limitations and information required to be furnished in a
n
Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual or in manual material, markings, and
placards, by the applicable regulations under which the airplane or
rotorcraft was type certificated."
Since we builders of amateur built experimental aircraft are not holders of
a Type Certificate we don't have to make available a current approved
Airplane Flight Manual to the owner (ourselves) at the time of delivery of
the aircraft.
I hope that I haven't lost you or bored you with this tour through the regs
.
I welcome any other inputs on this subject. Undoubtedly there are people,
including FAA employees who do think an Airplane Flight Manual is required
by regulation. I urge them to show us how.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
PS: Note that the data intended to be used to create the Airplane Flight
Manual for the amateur built airplane is not available at the time of
original FAA airworthiness certification inspection, but is only gained
during the Phase One flight testing. So the FAA's one opportunity to examin
e
your airplane and paperwork, other than for issuing the Repairman's
Certificate, or when you make a major modification, is passed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Anderson" <kcruiser@hickorytech.net
>
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 1:55 PM
Subject: pilot operating handbook
> {#}- Replies are directed back to kisbuilders@angus.mystery.com
> {#}- To reply to the author, write to "Bob Anderson"
> <kcruiser@hickorytech.net>
>
> Hi OC
> Are we required to create a pilot operating handbook?
>
> Bob Anderson
> Cruiser N949Y
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Manual |
Hi Galin
Thanks' for your reply.
-
WOW what a manual !!
If it would be easier to modify in word format that is what I would like. P
lease send it to me direct. kcruiser@hickorytech.net
-
Are you going to Oshkosh? I'll be there Friday and Saturday.
-
Thanks' in advance
Bob Anderson
--- On Wed, 6/2/10, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Flight Manual
I have a copy of the manual I made up based on a lot of other manuals avail
able. You can download it in PDF format at:
-
http://puertoricoflyer.com/KIS4%20Aiplane%20Manual.pdf
-
If you want it in WORD format (easier to modify) let me know and I will sen
d it to you. In WORD format it is quite a large file, about 12MB.
-
Galin
N819PR
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Bob
Unless something is new (and I have benn out of site awhile) I do not think
it s required.- If so Galien made a great one and I think he has it avai
l on his web site or available somehow.
I=B4m sure he will jump in when he has a chance.- He just moved back to t
he US
Rich
--- On Wed, 6/2/10, Robert Anderson <kcruiser1947@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Robert Anderson <kcruiser1947@yahoo.com>
Subject: KIS-List: Flight Manual
Hi Guys
Just read article Ramp Check page 16 Sport Aviation.
Are we required to have a flight manual? Our planes do not come with one.
If so what info needs to be in it?
I have check sheets that cover Start up, Taxi, Take off, Landing, and emerg
ency.
-
Bob A
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A=0A=0A
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Manual |
I would LOVE to get to Oshkosh, but I just started a "new" job so, maybe
next year. :o(
I sent you the handbook in WORD format which is much easier to modify.
Galin
On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Robert Anderson <kcruiser1947@yahoo.com>wro
te:
> Hi Galin
> Thanks' for your reply.
>
> WOW what a manual !!
> If it would be easier to modify in word format that is what I would like.
> Please send it to me direct. kcruiser@hickorytech.net
>
> Are you going to Oshkosh? I'll be there Friday and Saturday.
>
> Thanks' in advance
> Bob Anderson
> --- On *Wed, 6/2/10, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
>
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Flight Manual
> To: kis-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, June 2, 2010, 10:40 AM
>
> I have a copy of the manual I made up based on a lot of other manuals
> available. You can download it in PDF format at:
>
> http://puertoricoflyer.com/KIS4%20Aiplane%20Manual.pdf
>
> If you want it in WORD format (easier to modify) let me know and I will
> send it to you. In WORD format it is quite a large file, about 12MB.
>
> Galin
> N819PR
>
> On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.co
m<http://us.mc434.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
>> Bob
>> Unless something is new (and I have benn out of site awhile) I do not
>> think it s required. If so Galien made a great one and I think he has i
t
>> avail on his web site or available somehow.
>> I=B4m sure he will jump in when he has a chance. He just moved back to
the
>> US
>> Rich
>>
>>
>> --- On *Wed, 6/2/10, Robert Anderson <kcruiser1947@yahoo.com<http://us.m
c434.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kcruiser1947@yahoo.com>
>> >* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Robert Anderson <kcruiser1947@yahoo.com<http://us.mc434.mail.yahoo
.com/mc/compose?to=kcruiser1947@yahoo.com>
>> >
>> Subject: KIS-List: Flight Manual
>> To: "kisbuilders" <kis-list@matronics.com<http://us.mc434.mail.yahoo.com
/mc/compose?to=kis-list@matronics.com>
>> >
>> Date: Wednesday, June 2, 2010, 3:54 AM
>>
>> Hi Guys
>> Just read article Ramp Check page 16 Sport Aviation.
>> Are we required to have a flight manual? Our planes do not come with one
.
>> If so what info needs to be in it?
>> I have check sheets that cover Start up, Taxi, Take off, Landing, and
>> emergency.
>>
>> Bob A
>>
>> *
>>
>> =nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
>>
>> et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>> llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
>> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
> et=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
> =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
> blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
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