KIS-List Digest Archive

Sun 06/20/10


Total Messages Posted: 4



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:15 AM - Re: Air Flow Tuft Testing ()
     2. 12:42 PM - Chase Plane ()
     3. 01:41 PM - Re: Chase Plane (Scott Stearns)
     4. 07:03 PM - Re: Chase Plane ()
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:15:23 AM PST US
    From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Air Flow Tuft Testing
    6/20/2010 Hello Scott, Not that I know of. Julian sent me a DVD of his air flow tuft testing results with the suggestion that I share it. I spent a few hours trying to duplicate it on my home computer so that I could share it, but could never get any of my supposed duplicates to work. Right now the DVD is loaned to a fellow pilot who I checked out in my KIS TR-1. When I get the DVD back I'll make another attempt to get it duplicated with some outside help. If I succeed I'll let the group know and make copies available. 'OC' ========================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Stearns" <sstearns2@yahoo.com> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 12:04 AM Subject: Re: Air Flow Tuft Testing Is there a link to julians tuft videos around? Scott ======================================================== From: bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net> Subject: Air Flow Tuft Testing 6/19/2010 Hello Scott, Congratulations on a successful first flight. You wrote: "I need to tuft the wing root fairings and the bottom of the elevator when I have a chase plane and see if there is separation at high AOA." I think that you will be essentially wasting your time using visual observation from a chase plane to interpret air flow by yarn tufts. You will get a simple one word answer to the question "........see if there is separation at high AOA". That answer can already be predicted as "Yes". But just how much separation and where will require a more extensive data gathering method. I say this after watching on a DVD an extensive amount of KIS TR-1 air flow tuft testing done by Julian Bone. The results were very interesting and useful because he gathered the data by means of video cameras mounted on his plane. This meant that the data could be gathered relative to different airspeeds and analyzed over and over . See attached still picture. It would be extremely unlikely that you could get any comparably useful results from the visual observation of a crew member in a plane flying formation with your plane. As an expediency you might want to try to equip that crewmember with a zoom capable hand held video camera to see if that would provide some useful data. Take care when flying two planes in formation at high AOA. 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." ================================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Stearns" <sstearns2@yahoo.com> Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 10:38 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: first flight Hi Larry, I'm not sure exaclty what speed I lifted off at, but it was pretty fast. Between 75 and 80 KIAS for lift off looking at the data. As best I can tell from the data i touched down at about 60 knots. I was overcontrolling it a bit, but it felt solid and responsive all the way to impact, I mean touchdown. I need to tuft the wing root fairings and the bottom of the elevator when I have a chase plane and see if there is separation at high AOA. Scott


    Message 2


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    Time: 12:42:31 PM PST US
    From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: Chase Plane
    6/20/2010 Hello Scott, You wrote: "...... when I have a chase plane......" I have many flight hours instructing formation flight, and quite a few hours flying formation in air shows and chasing newbie pilots in single seat aircraft. Any time I read the words: "formation flying", "chase plane", "air to air photography" or the like my warning flags start fluttering rapidly in the breeze. Here are two of the accidents that come floating by in that breeze: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 060209X00189&key=1 http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/XB-70_crash_site.htm 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." ==================================================== Hi Larry, I'm not sure exaclty what speed I lifted off at, but it was pretty fast. Between 75 and 80 KIAS for lift off looking at the data. As best I can tell from the data i touched down at about 60 knots. I was overcontrolling it a bit, but it felt solid and responsive all the way to impact, I mean touchdown. I need to tuft the wing root fairings and the bottom of the elevator when I have a chase plane and see if there is separation at high AOA. Scott


    Message 3


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    Time: 01:41:36 PM PST US
    From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Chase Plane
    I hear you... My dad used to do airshows in the 70s and 80s-with a group of T-6's-and had a lot of formation time.- I learned a lot-from him. - When I say 'chase plane' I'm thinking of something piloted by one of- the professional test pilots I used to work with out at Scaled Composites. - I had the option of a chase plane for my first flight and elected not t o use it.- - Scott --- On Sun, 6/20/10, bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote: From: bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net> Subject: KIS-List: Chase Plane 6/20/2010 Hello Scott, You wrote: "...... when I have a chase plane......" I have many flight hours instructing formation flight, and quite a few hour s flying formation in air shows and chasing newbie pilots in single seat ai rcraft. Any time I read the words: "formation flying", "chase plane", "air to air p hotography" or the like my warning flags start fluttering rapidly in the br eeze. Here are two of the accidents that come floating by in that breeze: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 060209X00189&key=1 http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/XB-70_crash_site.htm 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." == Hi Larry, I'm not sure exaclty what speed I lifted off at, but it was pretty fast. Be tween 75 and 80 KIAS for lift off looking at the data.- As best I can tel l from the data i touched down at about 60 knots.- I was overcontrolling it a bit, but it felt solid and responsive all the way to impact, I mean to uchdown.- I need to tuft the wing root fairings and the bottom of the ele vator when I have a chase plane and see if there is separation at high AOA. Scott le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:03:17 PM PST US
    From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Chase Plane
    6/20/2010 Hello Scott, You wrote: "I had the option of a chase plane for my first flight and elected not to use it." Good move. I made another attempt to create a viewable copy of the Julian Bone KIS TR-1 airflow tuft testing DVD tonight and I think that I have succeeded. If you will email me your snail mail address I will mail that copy to you. If you have a problem viewing it -- I used Windows Media viewer -- email me and if needed we'll get together by phone and see if we can not make it viewable to you. 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." ===================================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Stearns" <sstearns2@yahoo.com> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:40 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Chase Plane I hear you... My dad used to do airshows in the 70s and 80s with a group of T-6's and had a lot of formation time. I learned a lot from him. When I say 'chase plane' I'm thinking of something piloted by one of the professional test pilots I used to work with out at Scaled Composites. I had the option of a chase plane for my first flight and elected not to use it. Scott ============================================================= From: bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net> Subject: KIS-List: Chase Plane 6/20/2010 Hello Scott, You wrote: "...... when I have a chase plane......" I have many flight hours instructing formation flight, and quite a few hours flying formation in air shows and chasing newbie pilots in single seat aircraft. Any time I read the words: "formation flying", "chase plane", "air to air photography" or the like my warning flags start fluttering rapidly in the breeze. Here are two of the accidents that come floating by in that breeze: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 060209X00189&key=1 http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/XB-70_crash_site.htm 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge."




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