Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:15 AM - Re: Air Flow Tuft Testing ()
2. 12:42 PM - Chase Plane ()
3. 01:41 PM - Re: Chase Plane (Scott Stearns)
4. 07:03 PM - Re: Chase Plane ()
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Air Flow Tuft Testing |
6/20/2010
Hello Scott, Not that I know of.
Julian sent me a DVD of his air flow tuft testing results with the
suggestion that I share it. I spent a few hours trying to duplicate it on my
home computer so that I could share it, but could never get any of my
supposed duplicates to work.
Right now the DVD is loaned to a fellow pilot who I checked out in my KIS
TR-1. When I get the DVD back I'll make another attempt to get it duplicated
with some outside help. If I succeed I'll let the group know and make copies
available.
'OC'
==========================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Stearns" <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: Air Flow Tuft Testing
Is there a link to julians tuft videos around?
Scott
========================================================
From: bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net>
Subject: Air Flow Tuft Testing
6/19/2010
Hello Scott, Congratulations on a successful first flight.
You wrote: "I need to tuft the wing root fairings and the bottom of the
elevator when I have a chase plane and see if there is separation at high
AOA."
I think that you will be essentially wasting your time using visual
observation from a chase plane to interpret air flow by yarn tufts. You will
get a simple one word answer to the question "........see if there is
separation at high AOA". That answer can already be predicted as "Yes". But
just how much separation and where will require a more extensive data
gathering method.
I say this after watching on a DVD an extensive amount of KIS TR-1 air flow
tuft testing done by Julian Bone. The results were very interesting and
useful because he gathered the data by means of video cameras mounted on his
plane. This meant that the data could be gathered relative to different
airspeeds and analyzed over and over .
See attached still picture.
It would be extremely unlikely that you could get any comparably useful
results from the visual observation of a crew member in a plane flying
formation with your plane. As an expediency you might want to try to equip
that crewmember with a zoom capable hand held video camera to see if that
would provide some useful data.
Take care when flying two planes in formation at high AOA.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
==================================================
----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Stearns" <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: first flight
Hi Larry,
I'm not sure exaclty what speed I lifted off at, but it was pretty fast.
Between 75 and 80 KIAS for lift off looking at the data. As best I can tell
from the data i touched down at about 60 knots. I was overcontrolling it a
bit, but it felt solid and responsive all the way to impact, I mean
touchdown. I need to tuft the wing root fairings and the bottom of the
elevator when I have a chase plane and see if there is separation at high
AOA.
Scott
Message 2
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6/20/2010
Hello Scott, You wrote: "...... when I have a chase plane......"
I have many flight hours instructing formation flight, and quite a few hours
flying formation in air shows and chasing newbie pilots in single seat
aircraft.
Any time I read the words: "formation flying", "chase plane", "air to air
photography" or the like my warning flags start fluttering rapidly in the
breeze. Here are two of the accidents that come floating by in that breeze:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 060209X00189&key=1
http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/XB-70_crash_site.htm
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
====================================================
Hi Larry,
I'm not sure exaclty what speed I lifted off at, but it was pretty fast.
Between 75 and 80 KIAS for lift off looking at the data. As best I can tell
from the data i touched down at about 60 knots. I was overcontrolling it a
bit, but it felt solid and responsive all the way to impact, I mean
touchdown. I need to tuft the wing root fairings and the bottom of the
elevator when I have a chase plane and see if there is separation at high
AOA.
Scott
Message 3
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I hear you... My dad used to do airshows in the 70s and 80s-with a group
of T-6's-and had a lot of formation time.- I learned a lot-from him.
- When I say 'chase plane' I'm thinking of something piloted by one of-
the professional test pilots I used to work with out at Scaled Composites.
- I had the option of a chase plane for my first flight and elected not t
o use it.-
-
Scott
--- On Sun, 6/20/10, bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
From: bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net>
Subject: KIS-List: Chase Plane
6/20/2010
Hello Scott, You wrote: "...... when I have a chase plane......"
I have many flight hours instructing formation flight, and quite a few hour
s flying formation in air shows and chasing newbie pilots in single seat ai
rcraft.
Any time I read the words: "formation flying", "chase plane", "air to air p
hotography" or the like my warning flags start fluttering rapidly in the br
eeze. Here are two of the accidents that come floating by in that breeze:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 060209X00189&key=1
http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/XB-70_crash_site.htm
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
==
Hi Larry,
I'm not sure exaclty what speed I lifted off at, but it was pretty fast. Be
tween 75 and 80 KIAS for lift off looking at the data.- As best I can tel
l from the data i touched down at about 60 knots.- I was overcontrolling
it a bit, but it felt solid and responsive all the way to impact, I mean to
uchdown.- I need to tuft the wing root fairings and the bottom of the ele
vator when I have a chase plane and see if there is separation at high AOA.
Scott
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 4
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6/20/2010
Hello Scott, You wrote: "I had the option of a chase plane for my first
flight and elected not to use it."
Good move.
I made another attempt to create a viewable copy of the Julian Bone KIS TR-1
airflow tuft testing DVD tonight and I think that I have succeeded. If you
will email me your snail mail address I will mail that copy to you.
If you have a problem viewing it -- I used Windows Media viewer -- email me
and if needed we'll get together by phone and see if we can not make it
viewable to you.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
=====================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Stearns" <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Chase Plane
I hear you... My dad used to do airshows in the 70s and 80s with a group of
T-6's and had a lot of formation time. I learned a lot from him. When I say
'chase plane' I'm thinking of something piloted by one of the professional
test pilots I used to work with out at Scaled Composites. I had the option
of a chase plane for my first flight and elected not to use it.
Scott
=============================================================
From: bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net>
Subject: KIS-List: Chase Plane
6/20/2010
Hello Scott, You wrote: "...... when I have a chase plane......"
I have many flight hours instructing formation flight, and quite a few hours
flying formation in air shows and chasing newbie pilots in single seat
aircraft.
Any time I read the words: "formation flying", "chase plane", "air to air
photography" or the like my warning flags start fluttering rapidly in the
breeze. Here are two of the accidents that come floating by in that breeze:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 060209X00189&key=1
http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/XB-70_crash_site.htm
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
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