---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/19/10: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:05 AM - First European KIS-Meeting in Germany (Twellmann, Ralf) 2. 06:13 AM - First European KIS-Meeting in Germany (Twellmann, Ralf) 3. 06:23 AM - WG: First European KIS-Meeting in Germany (Twellmann, Ralf) 4. 11:52 AM - Re: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down (Bill Schertz) 5. 12:52 PM - Re: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down (Galin Hernandez) 6. 01:06 PM - Re: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down (Scott Stearns) 7. 01:24 PM - Re: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down (Richard Trickel) 8. 01:38 PM - Re: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down (Galin Hernandez) 9. 02:02 PM - Re: [QUAR] Re: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down (Conners, Jerry L) 10. 02:50 PM - Re: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down (Robert Reed) 11. 09:57 PM - Re: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down (Larry David) 12. 11:04 PM - Re: [QUAR] Re: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down (Scott Stearns) 13. 11:46 PM - Re: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down (Jason Hills) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:34 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: First European KIS-Meeting in Germany From: "Twellmann, Ralf" Hello, last weekend the first European KIS meeting took place in Rinteln (EDVR) / Germany. Hans Christian Erstad from Norway who flew his KIS from Oslo to Berlin had the idea to stop at Rinteln on his way back and spend the weekend there. We also asked Keith Miller who lives in Amsterdam /Netherlands approx. 1 hour flight away from Rinteln and he spontaneously agreed to stop by. So we had a nice weekend with KIS flying and interesting discussions. Ralf Twellmann / KIS 104 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:36 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: First European KIS-Meeting in Germany From: "Twellmann, Ralf" Hello, last weekend the first European KIS meeting took place in Rinteln (EDVR) / Germany. Hans Christian Erstad from Norway who flew his KIS from Oslo to Berlin had the idea to stop at Rinteln on his way back and spend the weekend there. We also asked Keith Miller who lives in Amsterdam /Netherlands approx. 1 hour flight away from Rinteln and he spontaneously agreed to stop by. So we had a nice weekend with KIS flying and interesting discussions. Ralf Twellmann / KIS 104 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:03 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: WG: First European KIS-Meeting in Germany From: "Twellmann, Ralf" Hello, last weekend the first European KIS meeting took place in Rinteln (EDVR) / Germany. Hans Christian Erstad from Norway who flew his KIS from Oslo to Berlin had the idea to stop at Rinteln on his way back and spend the weekend there. We also asked Keith Miller who lives in Amsterdam /Netherlands approx. 1 hour flight away from Rinteln and he spontaneously agreed to stop by. So we had a nice weekend with KIS flying and interesting discussions. Ralf Twellmann / KIS 104 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:52:56 AM PST US From: "Bill Schertz" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down I believe John Davis had installed a Subaru engine in his plane. Hadn't heard that he sold it, but must have. Sad, hate to see these things happen. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS Phase I testing From: Robert Reed Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:21 PM Subject: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down Reported on the news tonight in Dallas: An Experimental Aircraft - TR-4 manufactured by John Davis in 2006 Tail number N767GW crashed near Denton Texas. Two passengers on board were taken to Parkland Hospital in Dallas for treatment of injuries. No additional information on who was flying or on-board. The plane was totally destroyed by fire with only the tail section appearing to be in tact. >From what I have been able to learn the plane was registered Harold Culp in Carrollton Texas. I didn't even know there was a KIS TR-4 in the area. I will update as more information becomes available but in the mean time please keep the pilot and passenger in your prayers. Bob Reed DENTON (CBS 11 / TXA 21) - A two seat aircraft failed to gain enough altitude and crashed about a mile south of Denton Municipal Airport around 7:15 p.m. Sunday. A husband and wife were on board and transported by a CareFlite helicopter to Parkland Hospital with severe burns. John Cabrales, City of Denton spokesman, called the plane an "experimental two-seat aircraft" and confirmed that it took flight at about 7:12 p.m. from that airport. The plane was cleared for take-off by the airport's control tower, but could not gain altitude fast enough. It lost power in the wind and plummeted to the ground. At about 8:30 p.m., officers had sectioned off about a 50 yard section of the field where the plane went down. In the middle of the area was the demolished aircraft, which burst into flames during the crash. Debris from the plane was scattered across the sectioned off area in all directions. Investigators from the Federal Aviation Agency will look into what caused the crash. A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft it was may have increased the risk of a crash. "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then it's labeled experimental," trooper Lonny Haschel said. "That may have been what we are dealing with." ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:52:18 PM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down Especially when they make a comment like: *A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft it was may have increased the risk of a crash. "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then it's labeled experimental," trooper Lonny Haschel said. "That may have been what we are dealing with."* As if being a trooper qualifies him to make a statement like that. Our prayers go out to the pilot and passenger. Galin On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Bill Schertz wrote: > I believe John Davis had installed a Subaru engine in his plane. Hadn't > heard that he sold it, but must have. > > Sad, hate to see these things happen. > > Bill Schertz > KIS Cruiser #4045 > N343BS > Phase I testing > > *From:* Robert Reed > *Sent:* Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:21 PM > *To:* kis-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down > > Reported on the news tonight in Dallas: An Experimental Aircraft - TR-4 > manufactured by John Davis in 2006 Tail number N767GW crashed near Denton > Texas. Two passengers on board were taken to Parkland Hospital in Dallas > for treatment of injuries. No additional information on who was flying or > on-board. The plane was totally destroyed by fire with only the tail > section appearing to be in tact. > > From what I have been able to learn the plane was registered Harold Culp in > Carrollton Texas. I didn't even know there was a KIS TR-4 in the area. > > [image: KTVT / KTXA] > > I will update as more information becomes available but in the mean time > please keep the pilot and passenger in your prayers. > > Bob Reed > > > DENTON (CBS 11 / TXA 21) -- > A two seat aircraft failed to gain enough altitude and crashed about a > mile south of DentonMunicipal Airport around 7:15 p.m. Sunday. A husband and wife were on board > and transported by a CareFlite helicopter to Parkland Hospital with severe > burns. > > John Cabrales, City of Denton spokesman, called the plane an "experimental > two-seat aircraft" and confirmed that it took flight at about 7:12 p.m. from > that airport > . > > The plane was cleared for take-off by the airport's control tower, but > could not gain altitude fast enough. It lost powerin the wind and plummeted to the ground. > > At about 8:30 p.m., officers had sectioned off about a 50 yard section of > the field where the plane went down. In the middle of the area was the > demolished aircraft, which burst into flames during the crash. Debris from > the plane was scattered across the sectioned off area in all directions. > > Investigators from the Federal Aviation Agency will look into what caused > the crash. A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft > it was may have increased the risk of a crash. > > "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's called a kit plane - they > put it together themselves and then it's labeled experimental," trooper > Lonny Haschel said. "That may have been what we are dealing with." > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:06:18 PM PST US From: Scott Stearns Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down I wouldn't blame the trooper.=C2- The newspaper reporter could have done 5 minutes worth of internet research, but instead just quoted the person st anding next to them.=C2- =C2- Scott --- On Mon, 7/19/10, Galin Hernandez wrote: From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down Especially when they make a comment like: =C2- A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft it was may have increased the risk of a crash. "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - m aybe it's called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then it' s labeled experimental," trooper Lonny Haschel said. "That may have been wh at we are dealing with." As if being a trooper qualifies him to make a statement like that. =C2- Our prayers go out to the pilot and passenger. =C2- Galin On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Bill Schertz wrote: I believe John Davis had installed a Subaru engine in his plane. Hadn't hea rd that he sold it, but must have. =C2- Sad, hate to see these things happen. =C2- Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS Phase I testing From: Robert Reed Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:21 PM Subject: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down Reported on the news tonight in Dallas:=C2- An Experimental Aircraft - TR -4 manufactured by John Davis in 2006 Tail number N767GW crashed near Dento n Texas.=C2- Two passengers on board were taken to Parkland Hospital in D allas for treatment of injuries.=C2- No additional information on who was flying or on-board.=C2- The plane was totally destroyed by fire with onl y the tail section appearing to be in tact. =C2- >From what I have been able to learn the plane was registered Harold Culp in Carrollton Texas.=C2- I didn't even know there was a KIS TR-4 in the are a.=C2- =C2- =C2- I will update as more information becomes available but in the mean time pl ease keep the pilot and passenger in your prayers. =C2- Bob Reed =C2- =C2- =C2- DENTON (CBS 11 / TXA 21) - A two seat aircraft failed to gain enough altitude and crashed about a mile south of Denton Municipal Airport around 7:15 p.m. Sunday. A husband and w ife were on board and transported by a CareFlite helicopter to Parkland Hos pital with severe burns. John Cabrales, City of Denton spokesman, called the plane an "experimental two-seat aircraft" and confirmed that it took flight at about 7:12 p.m. fro m that airport. The plane was cleared for take-off by the airport's control tower, but coul d not gain altitude fast enough. It lost power in the wind and plummeted to the ground. At about 8:30 p.m., officers had sectioned off about a 50 yard section of t he field where the plane went down. In the middle of the area was the demol ished aircraft, which burst into flames during the crash. Debris from the p lane was scattered across the sectioned off area in all directions. Investigators from the Federal Aviation Agency will look into what caused t he crash. A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft i t was may have increased the risk of a crash. "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then it's labeled experimental," trooper Lon ny Haschel said. "That may have been what we are dealing with." href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?KIS-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:24:45 PM PST US From: Richard Trickel Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down To All I did not know mr Culp but my sincer condolances go out to him and his fami ly.. I read that his wif passed away at the hospital afterwords but cannot confirm this. Rich Yep that is our news service today --- On Mon, 7/19/10, Scott Stearns wrote: From: Scott Stearns Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down I wouldn't blame the trooper.=C2- The newspaper reporter could have done 5 minutes worth of internet research, but instead just quoted the person st anding next to them.=C2- =C2- Scott --- On Mon, 7/19/10, Galin Hernandez wrote: From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down Especially when they make a comment like: =C2- A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft it was may have increased the risk of a crash. "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - m aybe it's called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then it' s labeled experimental," trooper Lonny Haschel said. "That may have been wh at we are dealing with." As if being a trooper qualifies him to make a statement like that. =C2- Our prayers go out to the pilot and passenger. =C2- Galin On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Bill Schertz wrote: I believe John Davis had installed a Subaru engine in his plane. Hadn't hea rd that he sold it, but must have. =C2- Sad, hate to see these things happen. =C2- Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS Phase I testing From: Robert Reed Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:21 PM Subject: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down Reported on the news tonight in Dallas:=C2- An Experimental Aircraft - TR -4 manufactured by John Davis in 2006 Tail number N767GW crashed near Dento n Texas.=C2- Two passengers on board were taken to Parkland Hospital in D allas for treatment of injuries.=C2- No additional information on who was flying or on-board.=C2- The plane was totally destroyed by fire with onl y the tail section appearing to be in tact. =C2- >From what I have been able to learn the plane was registered Harold Culp in Carrollton Texas.=C2- I didn't even know there was a KIS TR-4 in the are a.=C2- =C2- =C2- I will update as more information becomes available but in the mean time pl ease keep the pilot and passenger in your prayers. =C2- Bob Reed =C2- =C2- =C2- DENTON (CBS 11 / TXA 21) - A two seat aircraft failed to gain enough altitude and crashed about a mile south of Denton Municipal Airport around 7:15 p.m. Sunday. A husband and w ife were on board and transported by a CareFlite helicopter to Parkland Hos pital with severe burns. John Cabrales, City of Denton spokesman, called the plane an "experimental two-seat aircraft" and confirmed that it took flight at about 7:12 p.m. fro m that airport. The plane was cleared for take-off by the airport's control tower, but coul d not gain altitude fast enough. It lost power in the wind and plummeted to the ground. At about 8:30 p.m., officers had sectioned off about a 50 yard section of t he field where the plane went down. In the middle of the area was the demol ished aircraft, which burst into flames during the crash. Debris from the p lane was scattered across the sectioned off area in all directions. Investigators from the Federal Aviation Agency will look into what caused t he crash. A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft i t was may have increased the risk of a crash. "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then it's labeled experimental," trooper Lon ny Haschel said. "That may have been what we are dealing with." href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?KIS-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:38:55 PM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down True. Imagine that, a reporter in the US sacrificing accuracy for sensationalism. Galin On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Scott Stearns wrote: > I wouldn't blame the trooper. The newspaper reporter could have done 5 > minutes worth of internet research, but instead just quoted the person > standing next to them. > > Scott > > --- On *Mon, 7/19/10, Galin Hernandez * wrote: > > > From: Galin Hernandez > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down > > To: kis-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, July 19, 2010, 12:51 PM > > Especially when they make a comment like: > > *A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft it was > may have increased the risk of a crash. "Whenever someone makes an aircraft > - maybe it's called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then > it's labeled experimental," trooper Lonny Haschel said. "That may have been > what we are dealing with."* > As if being a trooper qualifies him to make a statement like that. > > Our prayers go out to the pilot and passenger. > > Galin > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Bill Schertz > > wrote: > >> I believe John Davis had installed a Subaru engine in his plane. Hadn't >> heard that he sold it, but must have. >> >> Sad, hate to see these things happen. >> >> Bill Schertz >> KIS Cruiser #4045 >> N343BS >> Phase I testing >> >> *From:* Robert Reed >> *Sent:* Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:21 PM >> *To:* kis-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down >> >> Reported on the news tonight in Dallas: An Experimental Aircraft - TR-4 >> manufactured by John Davis in 2006 Tail number N767GW crashed near Denton >> Texas. Two passengers on board were taken to Parkland Hospital in Dallas >> for treatment of injuries. No additional information on who was flying or >> on-board. The plane was totally destroyed by fire with only the tail >> section appearing to be in tact. >> >> From what I have been able to learn the plane was registered Harold Culp >> in Carrollton Texas. I didn't even know there was a KIS TR-4 in the area. >> >> [image: KTVT / KTXA] >> >> I will update as more information becomes available but in the mean time >> please keep the pilot and passenger in your prayers. >> >> Bob Reed >> >> >> >> DENTON (CBS 11 / TXA 21) -- >> A two seat aircraft failed to gain enough altitude and crashed about a >> mile south of DentonMunicipal Airport around 7:15 p.m. Sunday. A husband and wife were on board >> and transported by a CareFlite helicopter to Parkland Hospital with severe >> burns. >> >> John Cabrales, City of Denton spokesman, called the plane an "experimental >> two-seat aircraft" and confirmed that it took flight at about 7:12 p.m. from >> that airport >> . >> >> The plane was cleared for take-off by the airport's control tower, but >> could not gain altitude fast enough. It lost powerin the wind and plummeted to the ground. >> >> At about 8:30 p.m., officers had sectioned off about a 50 yard section of >> the field where the plane went down. In the middle of the area was the >> demolished aircraft, which burst into flames during the crash. Debris from >> the plane was scattered across the sectioned off area in all directions. >> >> Investigators from the Federal Aviation Agency will look into what caused >> the crash. A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft >> it was may have increased the risk of a crash. >> >> "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's called a kit plane - they >> put it together themselves and then it's labeled experimental," trooper >> Lonny Haschel said. "That may have been what we are dealing with." >> >> * >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* >> >> * >> >> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List >> ttp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > * > > =nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com > llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:02:35 PM PST US Subject: RE: [QUAR] Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down From: "Conners, Jerry L" aHR0cDovL3d3dy5kZW50b25yYy5jb20vc2hhcmVkY29udGVudC9kd3MvZHJj L2xvY2FsbmV3cy9kZW50b24vc3Rvcmllcy9EUkNfUGxhbmVfY3Jhc2hfMDcx 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LW1haWwgYW5kIGRlbGV0ZSBhbGwgY29waWVzIG9mIHRoZSBvcmlnaW5hbCBt ZXNzYWdlLgo ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:05 PM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down I long ago gave up on expectations of accuracy from our so called=C2-"new s" media.=C2- =0AThey are not in the business to report the facts but are strictly in the =0Aentertainment business and clearly "entertainment" take s many forms.=C2- I was =0Ahowever very disappointed in the Highway Patro lman who was interviewed and =0Ademonstrated his ignorance of the subject w ithout hesitation.=C2- When a trooper =0Amakes such statements they shoul d be based on facts which was clearly not the =0Acase.=0A=0AWhat always inf uriates me about the media coverage of aircraft accidents is how =0Athey ma ke even the smallest accident into a major event.=C2- In this case, they =0Amade the initial reports as "breaking" news that interrupted another pro gram to =0Areport.=C2- It was the lead story on the 10PM news as well.=C2 - While I will not =0Adiminish the importance of this event to those of u s in the flying community and =0Aespecially to fellow builders of this airc raft, it was no more of a major story =0Athan other fatal accidents over th e last 48 hours.=C2-=C2- It was however the only one =0Athat they repor ted with such sensationalism.=C2- The same sensational reports have =0Abe en issued even when the results have been nothing more than a bent landing =0Agear and damaged prop.=0A=0AWe in the flying and especially the homebuil ding community need to try and help =0Aput this in perspective before we se e our privileges of flying taken from us in =0Aorder to protect us.=C2- =0A=0A=0A:::::: Time to get off my soapbox :::::::::::=0A=0ABob=0A=0A=C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Galin Hernandez =0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, July 19, 2010 3:37 :40 PM=0ASubject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down=0A=0A=0ATrue. Imagine that, a reporter in the US sacrificing=C2-accuracy for =0Asensat ionalism.=0A=0AGalin=0A=0A=0AOn Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Scott Stearns wrote:=0A=0AI wouldn't blame the trooper.=C2- The newspaper reporter could have done 5 minutes =0Aworth of internet research, but instead just quoted the person standing next to =0Athem.=C2- =0A=0A> =0A>Scott=0A>=0A>--- On Mon, 7/19/10, Galin Hernandez wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>>From: Galin Hernandez =0A>>Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down =0A>>=0A>>To: kis-list@matronic s.com=0A>>Date: Monday, July 19, 2010, 12:51 PM=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Especially wh en they make a comment like:=0A>>=0A>>A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft it was may have =0A>>increased the risk of a cra sh. "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's =0A>>called a kit plan e - they put it together themselves and then it's labeled =0A>>experimental ," trooper Lonny Haschel said. "That may have been what we are =0A>>dealing with."=0A>>=0A>>As if being a trooper qualifies him to make a statement li ke that.=0A>>=0A>>Our prayers go out to the pilot and passenger.=0A>>=0A>>G alin=0A>>=0A>>On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Bill Schertz wrote:=0A>>=0A>>I believe John Davis had installed a Subaru engine in his plane. Hadn't heard =0A>>that he sold it, but must have.=0A>>>=C2- =0A>>>Sad, hate to see these things happen.=0A>>>=0A>>>Bill Schertz=0A>>>KI S Cruiser #4045=0A>>>N343BS=0A>>>Phase I testing=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>From: Rob ert Reed =0A>>>Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:21 PM=0A>>>To: kis-list@matro nics.com =0A>>>Subject: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down=0A>>>=0A>>> =0A>>>Reported on the news tonight in Dallas:=C2- An Experimental Aircraf t - TR-4 =0A>>>manufactured by John Davis in 2006 Tail number N767GW crashe d near Denton =0A>>>Texas.=C2- Two passengers on board were taken to Park land Hospital in Dallas for =0A>>>treatment of injuries.=C2- No additiona l information on who was flying or =0A>>>on-board.=C2- The plane was tota lly destroyed by fire with only the tail section =0A>>>appearing to be in t act.=0A>>>=C2-=0A>>>From what I have been able to learn the plane was reg istered Harold Culp in =0A>>>Carrollton Texas.=C2- I didn't even know the re was a KIS TR-4 in the area.=C2- =0A>>>=0A>>>=C2-=0A>>>KTVT / KTXA"> =0A>>>=0A>>>I will update as more information becomes available but in the mean time please =0A>>>keep the pilot and passenger in your prayers.=0A>>> =0A>>>Bob Reed=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>DENTON (CBS 11 / TXA 21) - =0A>>>A two seat aircraft failed to gain enough altitude and crashed about a mile =0A>>>south of Denton Municipal Airport around 7:15 p.m. Sunday. A h usband and wife =0A>>>were on board and transported by a CareFlite helicopt er to Parkland Hospital =0A>>>with severe burns.=0A>>>=0A>>>John Cabrales, City of Denton spokesman, called the plane an "experimental =0A>>>two-seat aircraft" and confirmed that it took flight at about 7:12 p.m. from =0A>>>t hat airport.=0A>>>=0A>>>The plane was cleared for take-off by the airport's control tower, but could not =0A>>>gain altitude fast enough. It lost powe r in the wind and plummeted to the =0A>>>ground. =0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>At about 8:30 p.m., officers had sectioned off about a 50 yard section of the =0A>> >field where the plane went down. In the middle of the area was the demolis hed =0A>>>aircraft, which burst into flames during the crash. Debris from t he plane was =0A>>>scattered across the sectioned off area in all direction s. =0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>Investigators from the Federal Aviation Agency will lo ok into what caused the =0A>>>crash. A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft it was =0A>>>may have increased the risk of a cra sh. =0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>"Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's call ed a kit plane - they put =0A>>>it together themselves and then it's labele d experimental," trooper Lonny =0A>>>Haschel said. "That may have been what we are dealing with." =0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>> =0A>>>href="http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List=0A >>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com =0A >>>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ c =0A>>>=0A>>> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-Lis t =0A>>>ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contr ibution =0A>>>=0A>>=0A>> =nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?KIS-List =0A>>et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow =0A>>target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>> =0A>=0A>=0A> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List =0A>ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributi ======================== =0A ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:00 PM PST US From: "Larry David" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down The statement fails to recognice that the construction by a home builder is usually superior then that by an assembly line worker since the builder ha s a vested interest in making things perfect. Guess you can't expect a tro uper to understand that subtle fact. You can check the registration on: ht tp://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=N767GW Unfortunately, it does not say what engine. If it was a Subaru, the descri ption sounds a little like the limp home mode feature that got my plane als o got them. Everyone with a Subaru engine should have the ECU modified so it can never enter the limp home mode. Sorry to read about it. My heart goes out to those folks and their families. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Galin Hernandez To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 12:51 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down Especially when they make a comment like: A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft it was ma y have increased the risk of a crash. "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then i t's labeled experimental," trooper Lonny Haschel said. "That may have been what we are dealing with." As if being a trooper qualifies him to make a statement like that. Our prayers go out to the pilot and passenger. Galin On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Bill Schertz wrot e: I believe John Davis had installed a Subaru engine in his plane. Hadn't heard that he sold it, but must have. Sad, hate to see these things happen. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS Phase I testing From: Robert Reed Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:21 PM To: kis-list@matronics.com Subject: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down Reported on the news tonight in Dallas: An Experimental Aircraft - TR- 4 manufactured by John Davis in 2006 Tail number N767GW crashed near Denton Texas. Two passengers on board were taken to Parkland Hospital in Dallas for treatment of injuries. No additional information on who was flying or on-board. The plane was totally destroyed by fire with only the tail secti on appearing to be in tact. From what I have been able to learn the plane was registered Harold Cul p in Carrollton Texas. I didn't even know there was a KIS TR-4 in the area I will update as more information becomes available but in the mean tim e please keep the pilot and passenger in your prayers. Bob Reed DENTON (CBS 11 / TXA 21) ? A two seat aircraft failed to gain enough altitude and crashed about a mile south of Denton Municipal Airport around 7:15 p.m. Sunday. A husband and wife were on board and transported by a CareFlite helicopter to Parkla nd Hospital with severe burns. John Cabrales, City of Denton spokesman, called the plane an "experim ental two-seat aircraft" and confirmed that it took flight at about 7:12 p. m. from that airport. The plane was cleared for take-off by the airport's control tower, bu t could not gain altitude fast enough. It lost power in the wind and plumme ted to the ground. At about 8:30 p.m., officers had sectioned off about a 50 yard sectio n of the field where the plane went down. In the middle of the area was the demolished aircraft, which burst into flames during the crash. Debris from the plane was scattered across the sectioned off area in all directions. Investigators from the Federal Aviation Agency will look into what ca used the crash. A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of airc raft it was may have increased the risk of a crash. "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then it's labeled experimental," troop er Lonny Haschel said. "That may have been what we are dealing with." href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.. com/Navigator?KIS-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:26 PM PST US From: Scott Stearns Subject: RE: [QUAR] Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down The parts are really scattered around.=C2- It doesn't look like a control led off field landing.=C2- The factory TR-4 was landed in a=C2-muddy=C2 -field and it remained intact and was repaired.=C2- It looks like there 's fire damage on the wing root in the picture to me.=C2- Click on it to see the full size one.=C2- =C2- I think I'm going to work on my fire bottle mount.=C2- =C2- Scott --- On Mon, 7/19/10, Conners, Jerry L wrote: From: Conners, Jerry L Subject: RE: [QUAR] Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/dws/drc/localnews/denton/stories/DRC_ Plane_crash_0719.152fe0fdf.html ... Denton article =C2- From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@mat ronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Trickel Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 1:24 PM Subject: [QUAR] Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down Importance: Low =C2- To All I did not know mr Culp but my sincer condolances go out to him and his fami ly.. I read that his wif passed away at the hospital afterwords but cannot confirm this. Rich Yep that is our news service today --- On Mon, 7/19/10, Scott Stearns wrote: From: Scott Stearns Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down I wouldn't blame the trooper.=C2- The newspaper reporter could have done 5 minutes worth of internet research, but instead just quoted the person st anding next to them.=C2- =C2- Scott --- On Mon, 7/19/10, Galin Hernandez wrote: From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down Especially when they make a comment like: =C2- A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft it was may have increased the risk of a crash. "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - m aybe it's called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then it' s labeled experimental," trooper Lonny Haschel said. "That may have been wh at we are dealing with." As if being a trooper qualifies him to make a statement like that. =C2- Our prayers go out to the pilot and passenger. =C2- Galin On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Bill Schertz wrote: I believe John Davis had installed a Subaru engine in his plane. Hadn't hea rd that he sold it, but must have. =C2- Sad, hate to see these things happen. =C2- Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS Phase I testing =C2- From: Robert Reed Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:21 PM Subject: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down =C2- Reported on the news tonight in Dallas:=C2- An Experimental Aircraft - TR -4 manufactured by John Davis in 2006 Tail number N767GW crashed near Dento n Texas.=C2- Two passengers on board were taken to Parkland Hospital in D allas for treatment of injuries.=C2- No additional information on who was flying or on-board.=C2- The plane was totally destroyed by fire with onl y the tail section appearing to be in tact. =C2- >From what I have been able to learn the plane was registered Harold Culp in Carrollton Texas.=C2- I didn't even know there was a KIS TR-4 in the are a.=C2- =C2- Error! Filename not specified. =C2- I will update as more information becomes available but in the mean time pl ease keep the pilot and passenger in your prayers. =C2- Bob Reed =C2- =C2- =C2- DENTON (CBS 11 / TXA 21) =C3=A2=82=AC=A2 A two seat aircraft failed to gain enough altitude and crashed about a mile south of DentonError! Filename not specified. Municipal Airport around 7:1 5 p.m. Sunday. A husband and wife were on board and transported by a CareFl ite helicopter to Parkland Hospital with severe burns. John Cabrales, City of Denton spokesman, called the plane an "experimental two-seat aircraft" and confirmed that it took flight at about 7:12 p.m. fro m that airportError! Filename not specified.. The plane was cleared for take-off by the airport's control tower, but coul d not gain altitude fast enough. It lost power in the wind and plummeted to the ground. At about 8:30 p.m., officers had sectioned off about a 50 yard section of t he field where the plane went down. In the middle of the area was the demol ished aircraft, which burst into flames during the crash. Debris from the p lane was scattered across the sectioned off area in all directions. Investigators from the Federal Aviation Agency will look into what caused t he crash. A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft i t was may have increased the risk of a crash. "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then it's labeled experimental," trooper Lon ny Haschel said. "That may have been what we are dealing with." =C2- =C2 -href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?KIS-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums. matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matr onics.com/c =C2- =C2-et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-Listttp: //forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Na vigator?KIS-Listet=_blank>http://forums.matronics.comllow target=_blank >http://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- =C2- =C2-=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Na vigator?KIS-Listet=_blank>http://forums.matronics.comllow target=_blank >http://www.matronics.com/contribution =82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82 =C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2 =82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82 =C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2- - List C -=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2- =C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3 =82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82 =C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2-=C3=82=C2- ================== =C2- This communication, including any attachments, may contain confidential inf ormation and is intended only for the individual or entity to whom it is ad dressed. Any review, dissemination or copying of this communication by anyo ne other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and dele te all copies of the original message.=C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD =C2=B2,=C3=9Eg(=93=C5-=C3=93M4=C3=93G=C3=9Aq=C3=BC=C2=A2=C3=C3 =A2z=C2=B9=C3=9E=C3=81=C3=8A.=C2=AE'=C2=AB8^(=9E=B9=C5-=C3=8B D=84=A2=C2=A8=C2=A5=C5-=C3=AE=EF=BD,z=C3=98^1=C2=ABk=C2=A2x=C5=93 =C2=B0=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B4W=C5=A1=C2=B6=C3=C3=9E=C2=B0=C3'=C2=AF=C5- =C2=AD=C2=A2=C2=BBhn=C2=BA0=C2=B1=C3=AD=C3=A9=C5=A1=C5=B8"=C3=A2 =C2=B2=C3=9B=C2=AD=C5-X=C2=AD=B0=C3=AB,=C2=B9=C3=88Z=C2=B0=C2=B8=C2 =AC=C2=B5I=C3J=C3=C3=ACr=C2=B8=C2=A9=C2=B6*'=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:34 PM PST US From: Jason Hills Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down That plane did have a subaru engine. Builder John Davis passed away a while back too (not sure if he sold before or if the plane was sold after his death). I believe it (originally) had an electric prop governor that failed at least once resulting in flat pitch and nearly zero power, but I believe that was caused by an early wiring defect. That or limp home mode on the subaru ecu would have caused problems. It will be interesting to see what if anything the FAA/NTSB is able to determine as cause. Sad to hear of the loss of life and injury. It sure seems like there was the opportunity to have a successful off field landing here. Too bad that didn't happen. ...Jason On Jul 19, 2010, at 9:58 PM, "Larry David" wrote: > The statement fails to recognice that the construction by a home builder is usually superior then that by an assembly line worker since the builder has a vested interest in making things perfect. Guess you can't expect a trouper to understand that subtle fact. You can check the registration on: http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=N76 7GW > Unfortunately, it does not say what engine. If it was a Subaru, the description sounds a little like the limp home mode feature that got my plane also got them. Everyone with a Subaru engine should have the ECU modified so it can never enter the limp home mode. Sorry to read about it. My heart goes out to those folks and their families. Larry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Galin Hernandez > To: kis-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 12:51 PM > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down > > Especially when they make a comment like: > > A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft it was may have increased the risk of a crash. "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then it's labeled experimental," trooper Lonny Haschel said. "That may have been what we are dealing with." > As if being a trooper qualifies him to make a statement like that. > > Our prayers go out to the pilot and passenger. > > Galin > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Bill Schertz wrote: > I believe John Davis had installed a Subaru engine in his plane. Hadn't heard that he sold it, but must have. > > Sad, hate to see these things happen. > > Bill Schertz > KIS Cruiser #4045 > N343BS > Phase I testing > > From: Robert Reed > Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:21 PM > To: kis-list@matronics.com > Subject: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down > > Reported on the news tonight in Dallas: An Experimental Aircraft - TR-4 manufactured by John Davis in 2006 Tail number N767GW crashed near Denton Texas. Two passengers on board were taken to Parkland Hospital in Dallas for treatment of injuries. No additional information on who was flying or on-board. The plane was totally destroyed by fire with only the tail section appearing to be in tact. > > =46rom what I have been able to learn the plane was registered Harold Culp in Carrollton Texas. I didn't even know there was a KIS TR-4 in the area. > > > > I will update as more information becomes available but in the mean time please keep the pilot and passenger in your prayers. > > Bob Reed > > > > DENTON (CBS 11 / TXA 21) - > A two seat aircraft failed to gain enough altitude and crashed about a mile south of Denton Municipal Airport around 7:15 p.m. Sunday A husband and wife were on board and transported by a CareFlite helicopter to Parkland Hospital with severe burns. > > John Cabrales, City of Denton spokesman, called the plane an "experimental two-seat aircraft" and confirmed that it took flight at about 7:12 p.m. from that airport. > > The plane was cleared for take-off by the airport's control tower, but could not gain altitude fast enough. It lost power in the wind and plummeted to the ground. > > At about 8:30 p.m., officers had sectioned off about a 50 yard section of the field where the plane went down. In the middle of the area was the demolished aircraft, which burst into flames during the crash. Debris from the plane was scattered across the sectioned off area in all directions. > > Investigators from the Federal Aviation Agency will look into what caused the crash. A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft it was may have increased the risk of a crash. > > "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then it's labeled experimental," trooper Lonny Haschel said. "That may have been what we are dealing with." > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?KIS-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > > et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > ttp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > ://www.matronics..com/Navigator?KIS-List > ics.com > matronics.com/contribution > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.