KIS-List Digest Archive

Tue 07/20/10


Total Messages Posted: 6



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:33 PM - SV: SV: SV: Picture of fillet (Hans Christian Erstad)
     2. 07:08 PM - Re: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down (Robert Anderson)
     3. 07:22 PM - Re: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down (Scott Stearns)
     4. 07:22 PM - Re: SV: SV: SV: Picture of fillet (Mark Kettering)
     5. 08:07 PM - Re: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down (Larry David)
     6. 11:53 PM - AW: SV: SV: SV: Picture of fillet / Control forces (Twellmann, Ralf)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:33:14 PM PST US
    From: "Hans Christian Erstad" <hans-chr.erstad@c2i.net>
    Subject: Picture of fillet
    Hello Mark It was sad to hear about the crash of the TR-4 Thanks for giving comments on the wing fairing and landing gear position. I am not looking for shorter landings, as I think I land shorter than I take off, with the prop I have I am looking for consitently good landings. The wing fairings may be a help (and Julians statement was that it was a great help), and a better gear position should also help. On the subject of gear position; Ralf showed me the Stinton book and on page 373 Stinton state that the nose wheel should have between 6 and 15 % of the total weight. With the main gear at STA 73.5 the nose gear takes about 23%. To get the load down to 15% I calculate I will have to move the main gir to STA 70! I don't know if it is advicable to tilt the legs that much forward. (But also on this subject, I don't know what autority Stinton is!) But, I will rather use the time flying. I had a grat trip to Germany at the weekend - as Ralf posted picture of. Regards, Hans Christian -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] P vegne av Mark Kettering Sendt: 16. juli 2010 18:01 Til: kis-list@matronics.com Emne: Re: SV: SV: KIS-List: Picture of fillet Hello Hans, I also don't like to fly in the prestall buffeting or wallowing. I think this gives me a warning that helps keep me at a safe margin above stall speed. I also do not know if better wing root fairings will help reduce this. At times these sort of detail things are very hard to predict. If you do not mind spending the time and effort, give them a try. They do look good! I think they could slightly reduce cruise drag. If they reduce or eliminate the prestall buffeting I think that would not be a good thing but then you can add stall strips if needed. If you are trying to reduced landing distance I would try some other things first. I think the flaps would be more effective if deflected up to 45 degrees. Not only will this increase the lift but it will also increase drag and slightly lower angle of attack. This should allow slight better approaches at a slightly lower speed. Next I would try to improve the brakes if they are not perfectly effective. If you are really into changing things a much larger change would be the addition of a belly flap under the fuselage that extends from the flap on one side to the flap on the other side. If you are really up for a big change I would think about replacing the flaps with split flaps. Split flaps actually are more effective providing lift and higher lift to drag than plain (like we have) flaps and single slotted flaps. Split (or maybe even zap) flaps would have been my choice if I designed a plane like this. Mark -----Original Message----- >From: Hans Christian Erstad <hans-chr.erstad@c2i.net> >Sent: Jul 14, 2010 4:42 PM >To: kis-list@matronics.com >Subject: SV: SV: KIS-List: Picture of fillet > >--> <hans-chr.erstad@c2i.net> > >Mark > >My KIS is a nose gear version. It could be that the tail dragger behave >differently. > >I don't think an improved fuselage junction will lower the stall speed, >but it will maybe improve the handeling at 10 kts above stall speed? I >feel I always am a bit fast on the final approach, as I don't like to >fly in the speed where the pre-stall warning wobbliness occurs. But, >in ground effect/flare I don't experience the wobbling/unsteadyness. > >Last weekend I went to the Duxford airshow in the UK. All old >airplanes with round fuselages have wing-fuselage fairings that start >off with a short radius at the leading edge and ends with a quite large radius at the rear. > >Regards >Hans Christian > >-----Opprinnelig melding----- >Fra: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] P vegne av Mark Kettering >Sendt: 14. juli 2010 16:52 >Til: kis-list@matronics.com >Emne: Re: SV: KIS-List: Picture of fillet > > >Sounds like just about a perfect stall warning to me. I am not saying >that a larger root fillet would not help reduce stall speed. It may. >But a good prestall warning is a very important thing to have. > >If your aircraft is a tail dragger do you have fairings on the gear leg >to fuselage junctions? > >I really like the look of the larger aft wing root fairing. Not really >a big fan of the big fairing at the forward part of the wing root. > >Mark > > >> At stall speed there are noticable pitch buffeting, and if the stick >>is kept in the aft position, the aircraft will sharply drop a wing >>(feels like 90 deg), and I have never attempted to see what hapens >>after this if do not recover from the stall. >> > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:08:58 PM PST US
    From: Robert Anderson <kcruiser1947@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down
    =C2-Hi Larry & All It seems to me that I=C2-remember John Petrie having trouble with Subaru. If someone makes a control unit for alternative engines=C2-in airplanes it would seem to be worth looking into. We are all tied together in this ma tter because of insurance. Avemco would not insure my Cruiser because of th e poor track record of Kis planes. Lucky for all of us that EAA has put tog ether a plan with Falcon Ins. Mine is through them with Global. =C2- Bob Anderson Cruiser N949Y --- On Mon, 7/19/10, Larry David <lgdavid@roadrunner.com> wrote: From: Larry David <lgdavid@roadrunner.com> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down The statement fails to recognice that the construction by a home builder is usually superior then that by an assembly line worker since the builder ha s a vested interest in making things=C2-perfect.=C2- Guess you can't ex pect a trouper to understand that subtle fact.=C2- You can check the regi stration on: http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNum bertxt=N767GW Unfortunately, it does not say what engine.=C2- If it was a Subaru, the d escription sounds a little like the limp home mode feature that got my plan e also got them.=C2- Everyone with a Subaru engine should have the ECU mo dified so it can never enter the limp home mode.=C2-=C2- Sorry to read about it.=C2- My heart goes out to those folks and their families.=C2- Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 12:51 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down Especially when they make a comment like: =C2- A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft it was may have increased the risk of a crash. "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - m aybe it's called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then it' s labeled experimental," trooper Lonny Haschel said. "That may have been wh at we are dealing with." As if being a trooper qualifies him to make a statement like that. =C2- Our prayers go out to the pilot and passenger. =C2- Galin On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Bill Schertz <wschertz@comcast.net> wrote: I believe John Davis had installed a Subaru engine in his plane. Hadn't hea rd that he sold it, but must have. =C2- Sad, hate to see these things happen. =C2- Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS Phase I testing From: Robert Reed Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:21 PM Subject: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down Reported on the news tonight in Dallas:=C2- An Experimental Aircraft - TR -4 manufactured by John Davis in 2006 Tail number N767GW crashed near Dento n Texas.=C2- Two passengers on board were taken to Parkland Hospital in D allas for treatment of injuries.=C2- No additional information on who was flying or on-board.=C2- The plane was totally destroyed by fire with onl y the tail section appearing to be in tact. =C2- >From what I have been able to learn the plane was registered Harold Culp in Carrollton Texas.=C2- I didn't even know there was a KIS TR-4 in the are a.=C2- =C2- =C2- I will update as more information becomes available but in the mean time pl ease keep the pilot and passenger in your prayers. =C2- Bob Reed =C2- =C2- =C2- DENTON (CBS 11 / TXA 21) - A two seat aircraft failed to gain enough altitude and crashed about a mile south of Denton Municipal Airport around 7:15 p.m. Sunday A husband and wi fe were on board and transported by a CareFlite helicopter to Parkland Hosp ital with severe burns. John Cabrales, City of Denton spokesman, called the plane an "experimental two-seat aircraft" and confirmed that it took flight at about 7:12 p.m. fro m that airport. The plane was cleared for take-off by the airport's control tower, but coul d not gain altitude fast enough. It lost power in the wind and plummeted to the ground. At about 8:30 p.m., officers had sectioned off about a 50 yard section of t he field where the plane went down. In the middle of the area was the demol ished aircraft, which burst into flames during the crash. Debris from the p lane was scattered across the sectioned off area in all directions. Investigators from the Federal Aviation Agency will look into what caused t he crash. A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft i t was may have increased the risk of a crash. "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then it's labeled experimental," trooper Lon ny Haschel said. "That may have been what we are dealing with." href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?KIS-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ://www.matronics..com/Navigator?KIS-List ics.com matronics.com/contribution =0A=0A=0A


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:22:27 PM PST US
    From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down
    >From the RV website... "the best auto conversion is to convert $10,000 into a good used lycoming". --- On Tue, 7/20/10, Robert Anderson <kcruiser1947@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Robert Anderson <kcruiser1947@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down =C2-Hi Larry & All It seems to me that I=C2-remember John Petrie having trouble with Subaru. If someone makes a control unit for alternative engines=C2-in airplanes it would seem to be worth looking into. We are all tied together in this ma tter because of insurance. Avemco would not insure my Cruiser because of th e poor track record of Kis planes. Lucky for all of us that EAA has put tog ether a plan with Falcon Ins. Mine is through them with Global. =C2- Bob Anderson Cruiser N949Y --- On Mon, 7/19/10, Larry David <lgdavid@roadrunner.com> wrote: From: Larry David <lgdavid@roadrunner.com> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down The statement fails to recognice that the construction by a home builder is usually superior then that by an assembly line worker since the builder ha s a vested interest in making things=C2-perfect.=C2- Guess you can't ex pect a trouper to understand that subtle fact.=C2- You can check the regi stration on: http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNum bertxt=N767GW Unfortunately, it does not say what engine.=C2- If it was a Subaru, the d escription sounds a little like the limp home mode feature that got my plan e also got them.=C2- Everyone with a Subaru engine should have the ECU mo dified so it can never enter the limp home mode.=C2-=C2- Sorry to read about it.=C2- My heart goes out to those folks and their families.=C2- Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 12:51 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down Especially when they make a comment like: =C2- A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft it was may have increased the risk of a crash. "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - m aybe it's called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then it' s labeled experimental," trooper Lonny Haschel said. "That may have been wh at we are dealing with." As if being a trooper qualifies him to make a statement like that. =C2- Our prayers go out to the pilot and passenger. =C2- Galin On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Bill Schertz <wschertz@comcast.net> wrote: I believe John Davis had installed a Subaru engine in his plane. Hadn't hea rd that he sold it, but must have. =C2- Sad, hate to see these things happen. =C2- Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS Phase I testing From: Robert Reed Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:21 PM Subject: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down Reported on the news tonight in Dallas:=C2- An Experimental Aircraft - TR -4 manufactured by John Davis in 2006 Tail number N767GW crashed near Dento n Texas.=C2- Two passengers on board were taken to Parkland Hospital in D allas for treatment of injuries.=C2- No additional information on who was flying or on-board.=C2- The plane was totally destroyed by fire with onl y the tail section appearing to be in tact. =C2- >From what I have been able to learn the plane was registered Harold Culp in Carrollton Texas.=C2- I didn't even know there was a KIS TR-4 in the are a.=C2- =C2- =C2- I will update as more information becomes available but in the mean time pl ease keep the pilot and passenger in your prayers. =C2- Bob Reed =C2- =C2- =C2- DENTON (CBS 11 / TXA 21) - A two seat aircraft failed to gain enough altitude and crashed about a mile south of Denton Municipal Airport around 7:15 p.m. Sunday A husband and wi fe were on board and transported by a CareFlite helicopter to Parkland Hosp ital with severe burns. John Cabrales, City of Denton spokesman, called the plane an "experimental two-seat aircraft" and confirmed that it took flight at about 7:12 p.m. fro m that airport. The plane was cleared for take-off by the airport's control tower, but coul d not gain altitude fast enough. It lost power in the wind and plummeted to the ground. At about 8:30 p.m., officers had sectioned off about a 50 yard section of t he field where the plane went down. In the middle of the area was the demol ished aircraft, which burst into flames during the crash. Debris from the p lane was scattered across the sectioned off area in all directions. Investigators from the Federal Aviation Agency will look into what caused t he crash. A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft i t was may have increased the risk of a crash. "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then it's labeled experimental," trooper Lon ny Haschel said. "That may have been what we are dealing with." href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?KIS-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ://www.matronics..com/Navigator?KIS-List ics.com matronics.com/contribution et=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A=0A=0A


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:22:34 PM PST US
    From: Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Picture of fillet
    Hello Hans, If your inconsistency landing is before you touch down then moving the gear location will not help. There are two or three minor design issues that may be causing pretouch down problem. The first and largest issue is the control harmony. The pitch forces are too light and the roll forces are too heavy in relation to the pitch force. The most simple way to reduce this problem some is to increase the pitch force by extending the elevator about 2+ inches in cord. The second would be to increase the movement of the elevator for a given stick movement. Keep in mind that you fly a plane with control force not control position. The third would be to reduce the ratio on the ailerons. The design of the stick on both the TR1 and TR4 actually makes for more leverage on the elevator and less on the ailerons. Ideally this would be reversed and then it would help lighten the aileron force and firm up the elevator force. The second area you may want to look into is control friction and play. The less friction and play you have in the system the better. Scott went to all ball bearings in his control system. A third area that causes some more pilot effort when landing is the slightly higher span loading of the TR1. This is best solved with piloting methods. Some like to keep a bit of power through the flair. I prefer to add a small burst of power at the flair to reduce the rate of decent just at the flair. Another method is to hold just a bit more speed and trade this speed for reduced rate of decent right at the flair. Practice all and do what works best for you but keep in mind if you use the keep a bit of power method you may not have that in an engine out situation. I am a big fan of Stinton. I agree with his gear placement but keep in mind the main requirement for the main gear is not the weight on the nose gear but the tail down force needed to rotate. Once the main gear is set from that requirement then you place the nose gear to get the 6 to 15%. Of course this is not possible on many single engine planes since the nose is not that long and there is a prop in the way so you can not place the nose gear so far forward. Good to hear you had a great trip! Wish I was there. Mark > >I am not looking for shorter landings, as I think I land shorter than I take >off, with the prop I have >I am looking for consistently good landings. The wing fairings may be a help >(and Julians statement was that it was a great help), and a better gear >position should also help. > >On the subject of gear position; Ralf showed me the Stinton book and on page >373 Stinton state that the nose wheel should have between 6 and 15 % of the >total weight. With the main gear at STA 73.5 the nose gear takes about 23%. >To get the load down to 15% I calculate I will have to move the main gir to >STA 70! I don't know if it is advicable to tilt the legs that much forward. >(But also on this subject, I don't know what autority Stinton is!) > >But, I will rather use the time flying. I had a grat trip to Germany at the >weekend - as Ralf posted picture of. > >Regards, Hans Christian > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:07:47 PM PST US
    From: "Larry David" <lgdavid@roadrunner.com>
    Subject: Re: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down
    After my crash, I wrote an article for Contact Magazine explaining the ECU and limp home problem. Someone else responded with an article explaining h ow to solve the ECU problem. If the ECU thinks it is in neutral or park and the engine RPMs go high, it puts you in limp home. The solution is to gro und two pins on the ECU. The pin that is used for sensing neutral and the pin that is used for sensing park. (Maybe it was pins 9 and 12, I'm not su re.) But the solution is so simple when you think about it. If there are any other subaru's out there with the original ECU, let me know and I will dig out the issue and send it to you. Don't want to see any more accidents due to this problem. (Incidentally, Eggenfelner has a different but effec tive solution.) Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Anderson To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 7:07 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down Hi Larry & All It seems to me that I remember John Petrie having trouble with Suba ru. If someone makes a control unit for alternative engines in airplanes it would seem to be worth looking into. We are all tied together in this matt er because of insurance. Avemco would not insure my Cruiser because of the poor track record of Kis planes. Lucky for all of us that EAA has put toget her a plan with Falcon Ins. Mine is through them with Global. Bob Anderson Cruiser N949Y --- On Mon, 7/19/10, Larry David <lgdavid@roadrunner.com> wrote: From: Larry David <lgdavid@roadrunner.com> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down To: kis-list@matronics.com Date: Monday, July 19, 2010, 11:58 PM The statement fails to recognice that the construction by a home builder is usually superior then that by an assembly line worker since the builder has a vested interest in making things perfect. Guess you can't ex pect a trouper to understand that subtle fact. You can check the registrat ion on: http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertx t=N767GW Unfortunately, it does not say what engine. If it was a Subaru, the description sounds a little like the limp home mode feature that got my plane also got them. Everyone with a Subaru engine should have the ECU mo dified so it can never enter the limp home mode. Sorry to read about it. My heart goes out to those folks and their families. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Galin Hernandez To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 12:51 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down Especially when they make a comment like: A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft it was may have increased the risk of a crash. "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then it's labeled experimental," trooper Lonny Haschel said. "That may have been what we are dealing with." As if being a trooper qualifies him to make a statement like th at. Our prayers go out to the pilot and passenger. Galin On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Bill Schertz <wschertz@comcast net> wrote: I believe John Davis had installed a Subaru engine in his pla ne. Hadn't heard that he sold it, but must have. Sad, hate to see these things happen. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS Phase I testing From: Robert Reed Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:21 PM To: kis-list@matronics.com Subject: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down Reported on the news tonight in Dallas: An Experimental Airc raft - TR-4 manufactured by John Davis in 2006 Tail number N767GW crashed n ear Denton Texas. Two passengers on board were taken to Parkland Hospital in Dallas for treatment of injuries. No additional information on who was flying or on-board. The plane was totally destroyed by fire with only the tail section appearing to be in tact. From what I have been able to learn the plane was registered Harold Culp in Carrollton Texas. I didn't even know there was a KIS TR-4 i n the area. I will update as more information becomes available but in th e mean time please keep the pilot and passenger in your prayers. Bob Reed DENTON (CBS 11 / TXA 21) - A two seat aircraft failed to gain enough altitude and cras hed about a mile south of Denton Municipal Airport around 7:15 p.m. Sunday A husband and wife were on board and transported by a CareFlite helicopter to Parkland Hospital with severe burns. John Cabrales, City of Denton spokesman, called the plane a n "experimental two-seat aircraft" and confirmed that it took flight at abo ut 7:12 p.m. from that airport. The plane was cleared for take-off by the airport's control tower, but could not gain altitude fast enough. It lost power in the wind and plummeted to the ground. At about 8:30 p.m., officers had sectioned off about a 50 y ard section of the field where the plane went down. In the middle of the ar ea was the demolished aircraft, which burst into flames during the crash. D ebris from the plane was scattered across the sectioned off area in all dir ections. Investigators from the Federal Aviation Agency will look in to what caused the crash. A Department of Public Safety trooper said the ty pe of aircraft it was may have increased the risk of a crash. "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's called a k it plane - they put it together themselves and then it's labeled experiment al," trooper Lonny Haschel said. "That may have been what we are dealing wi th." href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.. com/Navigator?KIS-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ://www.matronics..com/Navigator?KIS-List ics.com matronics.com/contribution et=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 6


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    Time: 11:53:32 PM PST US
    Subject: Picture of fillet / Control forces
    From: "Twellmann, Ralf" <r.twellmann@steute.com>
    This leads to a question which arose during our weekend flying in Germany: We found that the aileron forces on Hans plane are considerably higher than on mine and on Keiths. Does anybody know whether the kinematics of the controls were changed during production of the kits? (Hans has one of the earlier kits) Ralf -----Ursprngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Mark Kettering Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. Juli 2010 04:21 An: kis-list@matronics.com Betreff: Re: SV: SV: SV: KIS-List: Picture of fillet Hello Hans, If your inconsistency landing is before you touch down then moving the gear location will not help. There are two or three minor design issues that may be causing pretouch down problem. The first and largest issue is the control harmony. The pitch forces are too light and the roll forces are too heavy in relation to the pitch force. The most simple way to reduce this problem some is to increase the pitch force by extending the elevator about 2+ inches in cord. The second would be to increase the movement of the elevator for a given stick movement. Keep in mind that you fly a plane with control force not control position. The third would be to reduce the ratio on the ailerons. The design of the stick on both the TR1 and TR4 actually makes for more leverage on the elevator and less on the ailerons. Ideally this would be reversed and then it would help lighten the aileron force and firm up the elevator force. The second area you may want to look into is control friction and play. The less friction and play you have in the system the better. Scott went to all ball bearings in his control system. A third area that causes some more pilot effort when landing is the slightly higher span loading of the TR1. This is best solved with piloting methods. Some like to keep a bit of power through the flair. I prefer to add a small burst of power at the flair to reduce the rate of decent just at the flair. Another method is to hold just a bit more speed and trade this speed for reduced rate of decent right at the flair. Practice all and do what works best for you but keep in mind if you use the keep a bit of power method you may not have that in an engine out situation. I am a big fan of Stinton. I agree with his gear placement but keep in mind the main requirement for the main gear is not the weight on the nose gear but the tail down force needed to rotate. Once the main gear is set from that requirement then you place the nose gear to get the 6 to 15%. Of course this is not possible on many single engine planes since the nose is not that long and there is a prop in the way so you can not place the nose gear so far forward. Good to hear you had a great trip! Wish I was there. Mark > >I am not looking for shorter landings, as I think I land shorter than I >take off, with the prop I have I am looking for consistently good >landings. The wing fairings may be a help (and Julians statement was >that it was a great help), and a better gear position should also help. > >On the subject of gear position; Ralf showed me the Stinton book and on >page >373 Stinton state that the nose wheel should have between 6 and 15 % of >the total weight. With the main gear at STA 73.5 the nose gear takes about 23%. >To get the load down to 15% I calculate I will have to move the main >gir to STA 70! I don't know if it is advicable to tilt the legs that much forward. >(But also on this subject, I don't know what autority Stinton is!) > >But, I will rather use the time flying. I had a grat trip to Germany at >the weekend - as Ralf posted picture of. > >Regards, Hans Christian > >




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