Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:51 AM - Re: engine optons (Richard Trickel)
2. 07:23 AM - Re: Re: engine optons (Robert Reed)
3. 12:53 PM - TR1 Nose Leg material (JOHN JACKSON)
4. 01:28 PM - Re: TR1 Nose Leg material (Richard Trickel)
5. 02:41 PM - Re: TR1 Nose Leg material ()
6. 03:28 PM - Re: TR1 Nose Leg material (F. Tim Yoder)
7. 03:34 PM - Pulsar Sport 150 or KIS2 ()
8. 03:37 PM - Re: TR1 Nose Leg material (JOHN JACKSON)
9. 03:54 PM - Re: Re: engine optons (Graham Brighton)
10. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: engine optons (Graham Brighton)
11. 06:35 PM - Re: Pulsar Sport 150 or KIS2 (Galin Hernandez)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: engine optons |
Scott
After many years of playing with planes and watching others experiment with
engines I have to agree with the RV statement.=C2- As you know I started
out with a Limbach engine which is a VW engine that was very well converte
d to aircraft use.. It worked well and I felt pretty good with it but alway
s had it in my mind that is was a conversion. Vance always wanted to try an
auto engine but I resisted based on the track record of these conversions.
When I look at the cost of these conversions I do not see their advantage e
ither.
Rich
--- On Wed, 7/21/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down
>From the RV website... "the best auto conversion is to convert $10,000 into
a good used lycoming".
--- On Tue, 7/20/10, Robert Anderson <kcruiser1947@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Robert Anderson <kcruiser1947@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down
=C2-Hi Larry & All
It seems to me that I=C2-remember John Petrie having trouble with Subaru.
If someone makes a control unit for alternative engines=C2-in airplanes
it would seem to be worth looking into. We are all tied together in this ma
tter because of insurance. Avemco would not insure my Cruiser because of th
e poor track record of Kis planes. Lucky for all of us that EAA has put tog
ether a plan with Falcon Ins. Mine is through them with Global.
=C2-
Bob Anderson
Cruiser N949Y
--- On Mon, 7/19/10, Larry David <lgdavid@roadrunner.com> wrote:
From: Larry David <lgdavid@roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down
The statement fails to recognice that the construction by a home builder is
usually superior then that by an assembly line worker since the builder ha
s a vested interest in making things=C2-perfect.=C2- Guess you can't ex
pect a trouper to understand that subtle fact.=C2- You can check the regi
stration on: http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNum
bertxt=N767GW
Unfortunately, it does not say what engine.=C2- If it was a Subaru, the d
escription sounds a little like the limp home mode feature that got my plan
e also got them.=C2- Everyone with a Subaru engine should have the ECU mo
dified so it can never enter the limp home mode.=C2-=C2- Sorry to read
about it.=C2- My heart goes out to those folks and their families.=C2-
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: Galin Hernandez
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down
Especially when they make a comment like:
=C2-
A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft it was may
have increased the risk of a crash. "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - m
aybe it's called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then it'
s labeled experimental," trooper Lonny Haschel said. "That may have been wh
at we are dealing with."
As if being a trooper qualifies him to make a statement like that.
=C2-
Our prayers go out to the pilot and passenger.
=C2-
Galin
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Bill Schertz <wschertz@comcast.net> wrote:
I believe John Davis had installed a Subaru engine in his plane. Hadn't hea
rd that he sold it, but must have.
=C2-
Sad, hate to see these things happen.
=C2-
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
Phase I testing
From: Robert Reed
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:21 PM
Subject: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down
Reported on the news tonight in Dallas:=C2- An Experimental Aircraft - TR
-4 manufactured by John Davis in 2006 Tail number N767GW crashed near Dento
n Texas.=C2- Two passengers on board were taken to Parkland Hospital in D
allas for treatment of injuries.=C2- No additional information on who was
flying or on-board.=C2- The plane was totally destroyed by fire with onl
y the tail section appearing to be in tact.
=C2-
>From what I have been able to learn the plane was registered Harold Culp in
Carrollton Texas.=C2- I didn't even know there was a KIS TR-4 in the are
a.=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
I will update as more information becomes available but in the mean time pl
ease keep the pilot and passenger in your prayers.
=C2-
Bob Reed
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
DENTON (CBS 11 / TXA 21) -
A two seat aircraft failed to gain enough altitude and crashed about a mile
south of Denton Municipal Airport around 7:15 p.m. Sunday A husband and wi
fe were on board and transported by a CareFlite helicopter to Parkland Hosp
ital with severe burns.
John Cabrales, City of Denton spokesman, called the plane an "experimental
two-seat aircraft" and confirmed that it took flight at about 7:12 p.m. fro
m that airport.
The plane was cleared for take-off by the airport's control tower, but coul
d not gain altitude fast enough. It lost power in the wind and plummeted to
the ground.
At about 8:30 p.m., officers had sectioned off about a 50 yard section of t
he field where the plane went down. In the middle of the area was the demol
ished aircraft, which burst into flames during the crash. Debris from the p
lane was scattered across the sectioned off area in all directions.
Investigators from the Federal Aviation Agency will look into what caused t
he crash. A Department of Public Safety trooper said the type of aircraft i
t was may have increased the risk of a crash.
"Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's called a kit plane - they
put it together themselves and then it's labeled experimental," trooper Lon
ny Haschel said. "That may have been what we are dealing with."
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?KIS-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
://www.matronics..com/Navigator?KIS-List
ics.com
matronics.com/contribution
et=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A=0A=0A
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: engine optons |
Rich,=0A=0AThe last statement you made "When I look at the cost of these co
nversions I do =0Anot see their advantage either" is probably the single mo
st discouraging point =0Athat I found when looking at alternative engines.
=C2- In my investigations of =0Aengine choices it became clear that the a
lternatives=C2-currently available=C2-were =0Aall just as costly or mor
e so than the traditional engine choices.=C2- They also =0Atended to be m
ore complex from an installation and operational standpoint.=C2- =0AWhile
we are all participating in the "EXPERIMENTAL" aircraft venture and must
=0Aaccept certain additional roles as builder, mechanic, and inspector of o
ur =0Aaircraft it remains in our best interests to keep the complexity of o
ur aircraft =0Ato within our capabilities or within the capabilities of tho
se who will work on =0Athem.=C2- Utilization of an aircraft engine will f
or the most part ensure that we =0Acan always find someone at the airports
we fly to who can help us with both =0Aparts and expertise.=C2-=C2- Alt
ernative engines on the other hand will be OUR sole =0Aresponsibility.=C2
- =0A=0A=0ABob=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Ric
hard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com>=0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com=0ASen
t: Wed, July 21, 2010 6:51:03 AM=0ASubject: KIS-List: Re: engine optons=0A
=0A=0A=0AScott=0AAfter many years of playing with planes and watching other
s experiment with =0Aengines I have to agree with the RV statement.=C2- A
s you know I started out with a =0ALimbach engine which is a VW engine that
was very well converted to aircraft =0Ause.. It worked well and I felt pre
tty good with it but always had it in my mind =0Athat is was a conversion.
Vance always wanted to try an auto engine but I =0Aresisted based on the tr
ack record of these conversions.=0AWhen I look at the cost of these convers
ions I do not see their advantage =0Aeither.=0ARich=0A--- On Wed, 7/21/10,
Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:=0A=0A=0A>From: Scott Stearns <ss
tearns2@yahoo.com>=0A>Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down
=0A>To: kis-list@matronics.com=0A>Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 2:21 AM
=0A>=0A>=0A>From the RV website... "the best auto conversion is to convert
$10,000 into a =0A>good used lycoming".=0A>=0A>--- On Tue, 7/20/10, Robert
Anderson <kcruiser1947@yahoo.com> wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>>From: Robert Anderson
<kcruiser1947@yahoo.com>=0A>>Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-
4 Down=0A>>To: kis-list@matronics.com=0A>>Date: Tuesday, July 20, 2010, 7:0
7 PM=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=C2-Hi Larry & All=0A>>It seems to me that I=C2-reme
mber John Petrie having trouble with Subaru. If =0A>>someone makes a contro
l unit for alternative engines=C2-in airplanes it would seem =0A>>to be w
orth looking into. We are all tied together in this matter because of =0A>>
insurance. Avemco would not insure my Cruiser because of the poor track rec
ord =0A>>of Kis planes. Lucky for all of us that EAA has put together a pla
n with Falcon =0A>>Ins. Mine is through them with Global.=0A>>=0A>>Bob Ande
rson=0A>>Cruiser N949Y=0A>>--- On Mon, 7/19/10, Larry David <lgdavid@roadru
nner.com> wrote:=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>>From: Larry David <lgdavid@roadrunner.com>
=0A>>>Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down=0A>>>To: kis-lis
t@matronics.com=0A>>>Date: Monday, July 19, 2010, 11:58 PM=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>
>The statement fails to recognice that the construction by a home builder i
s =0A>>>usually superior then that by an assembly line worker since the bui
lder has a =0A>>>vested interest in making things=C2-perfect.=C2- Guess
you can't expect a trouper to =0A>>>understand that subtle fact.=C2- You
can check the registration on: =0A>>>http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqui
ry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=N767GW=0A>>>Unfortunately, it does not sa
y what engine.=C2- If it was a Subaru, the description =0A>>>sounds a lit
tle like the limp home mode feature that got my plane also got =0A>>>them.
=C2- Everyone with a Subaru engine should have the ECU modified so it can
=0A>>>never enter the limp home mode.=C2-=C2- Sorry to read about it.
=C2- My heart goes out to =0A>>>those folks and their families.=C2- Lar
ry=0A>>>----- Original Message ----- =0A>>>>From: Galin Hernandez =0A>>>>To
: kis-list@matronics.com =0A>>>>Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 12:51 PM=0A>>>>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>Es
pecially when they make a comment like:=0A>>>>=0A>>>>A Department of Public
Safety trooper said the type of aircraft it was may have =0A>>>>increased
the risk of a crash. "Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's =0A>>
>>called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then it's labele
d =0A>>>>experimental," trooper Lonny Haschel said. "That may have been wha
t we are =0A>>>>dealing with."=0A>>>>=0A>>>>As if being a trooper qualifies
him to make a statement like that.=0A>>>>=0A>>>>Our prayers go out to the
pilot and passenger.=0A>>>>=0A>>>>Galin=0A>>>>=0A>>>>On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 a
t 1:51 PM, Bill Schertz <wschertz@comcast.net> wrote:=0A>>>>=0A>>>>I believ
e John Davis had installed a Subaru engine in his plane. Hadn't heard =0A>>
>>that he sold it, but must have.=0A>>>>>=C2-=0A>>>>>Sad, hate to see the
se things happen.=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Bill Schertz=0A>>>>>KIS Cruiser #4045=0A>>
>>>N343BS=0A>>>>>Phase I testing=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>From: Robert Reed
=0A>>>>>Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:21 PM=0A>>>>>To: kis-list@matronics.
com =0A>>>>>Subject: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>
>=0A>>>>>Reported on the news tonight in Dallas:=C2- An Experimental Airc
raft - TR-4 =0A>>>>>manufactured by John Davis in 2006 Tail number N767GW c
rashed near Denton =0A>>>>>Texas.=C2- Two passengers on board were taken
to Parkland Hospital in Dallas for =0A>>>>>treatment of injuries.=C2- No
additional information on who was flying or =0A>>>>>on-board.=C2- The pla
ne was totally destroyed by fire with only the tail section =0A>>>>>appeari
ng to be in tact.=0A>>>>>=C2-=0A>>>>>From what I have been able to learn
the plane was registered Harold Culp in =0A>>>>>Carrollton Texas.=C2- I d
idn't even know there was a KIS TR-4 in the area.=C2- =0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=C2
-=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>I will update as more information becomes availa
ble but in the mean time please =0A>>>>>keep the pilot and passenger in you
r prayers.=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Bob Reed=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>DENTON (C
BS 11 / TXA 21) - =0A>>>>>A two seat aircraft failed to gain enough
altitude and crashed about a mile =0A>>>>>south of Denton Municipal Airpor
t around 7:15 p.m. Sunday A husband and wife =0A>>>>>were on board and tran
sported by a CareFlite helicopter to Parkland Hospital =0A>>>>>with severe
burns.=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>John Cabrales, City of Denton spokesman, called the p
lane an "experimental =0A>>>>>two-seat aircraft" and confirmed that it took
flight at about 7:12 p.m. from =0A>>>>>that airport.=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>The pl
ane was cleared for take-off by the airport's control tower, but could not
=0A>>>>>gain altitude fast enough. It lost power in the wind and plummeted
to the =0A>>>>>ground. =0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>At about 8:30 p.m., officers
had sectioned off about a 50 yard section of the =0A>>>>>field where the p
lane went down. In the middle of the area was the demolished =0A>>>>>aircra
ft, which burst into flames during the crash. Debris from the plane was =0A
>>>>>scattered across the sectioned off area in all directions. =0A>>>>>=0A
>>>>>=0A>>>>>Investigators from the Federal Aviation Agency will look into
what caused the =0A>>>>>crash. A Department of Public Safety trooper said t
he type of aircraft it was =0A>>>>>may have increased the risk of a crash.
=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>"Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's ca
lled a kit plane - they put =0A>>>>>it together themselves and then it's la
beled experimental," trooper Lonny =0A>>>>>Haschel said. "That may have bee
n what we are dealing with." =0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>> =0A>>>>>href="http
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator
?KIS-List=0A>>>>> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matro
nics.com =0A>>>>>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.
matronics.com/c =0A>>>>>=0A>>>>> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Na
vigator?KIS-List =0A>>>>>ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matr
onics.com/contribution =0A>>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>> ://www.matronics..com/Navig
ator?KIS-List ics.com matronics.com/contribution =0A>>=0A>> et=_blank
=0A>>rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List=nofollow>
http://forums.matronics.com=0A>> blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.
com/contribution =0A>>=0A>>=0A>> =nofollow =0A>>target=_blank>http:/
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-Listet=_blank>http://forums.matronics.co
m=0A>> llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>>
=0A>=0A> =nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KI
S-List =0A>et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow =0A>target=_blank
=== =0A
Message 3
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| Subject: | TR1 Nose Leg material |
=0AHello Guys=0A=0ADoes anyone know what metal the second generation (solid
round bar) nose leg is =0Amade from.- I understand that the mounting wel
dment is 4130; but is the round =0Abar also 4130?=0A=0AThanks in anticipati
on.=0A=0AJJ
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: TR1 Nose Leg material |
John
There never was a solid round bar version made by Tri R so I would assum th
at this was a conversion by someone along the way.- You might have to tra
ck the original builder to find out what he did
Rich
--- On Wed, 7/21/10, JOHN JACKSON <helixaviation@btinternet.com> wrote:
From: JOHN JACKSON <helixaviation@btinternet.com>
Subject: KIS-List: TR1 Nose Leg material
Hello Guys
-
Does anyone know what metal the second generation (solid round bar) nose le
g is made from.- I understand that the mounting weldment is 4130; but is
the round bar also 4130?
-
Thanks in anticipation.
-
JJ
=0A=0A=0A
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: TR1 Nose Leg material |
7/21/2010
Hello JJ, It would help us to answer your question if we knew why you were
asking it. You wrote:
1) "Does anyone know what metal the second generation....."
There were several iterations of the nose landing gear on the KIS TR-1 so it
is probably impossible to use the term "second generation" and have
everybody understand and agree on just exactly what version of the nose
landing gear strut that you are asking about.
2) ".....(solid round bar).......
I never had the very earliest version(s) of the KIS TR-1 nose landing gear
strut in my hands so I looked at the drawings / pictures and assumed that I
was looking at a round, solid, hardened (spring) steel, tapered rod.
But Rich writes: "There never was a solid round bar version made by Tri
R...." So that leaves further potential confusion regarding the exact KIS
TR-1 nose landing gear strut, or its source and material, that you are
asking about.
3) "I understand that the mounting weldment is 4130; but is the round bar
also 4130?"
So we can't answer for certain your question about the material that the
mystery solid, round, nose landing gear strut is made from, but if you read
some of the email exchanges copied below I'd be willing to bet that any KIS
TR-1 nose landing gear strut that we know of, regardless of its shape or
solidity, was made of 4130 steel.
If you expand on your question a bit we may be able to provide more help.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
===========================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "JOHN JACKSON" <helixaviation@btinternet.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 3:51 PM
Subject: KIS-List: TR1 Nose Leg material
Hello Guys
Does anyone know what metal the second generation (solid round bar) nose leg
is
made from. I understand that the mounting weldment is 4130; but is the round
bar also 4130?
Thanks in anticipation.
JJ
==============================================================
>From Lyle Hendricks:
O.C., Rich, Ken and all,
First of all let me clarify that I'm not a metallurgist, but I have worked
with various metals on a daily basis for the last 25 years and have metal
components heat treated on a regular basis (and I did sleep at a Holiday Inn
last night :)
As I see it, austenite is a condition produced during the heat treatment
stage which gives 4130 steel aircraft components their desired
characteristics; allowing the metal to be strong enough to bend, stretch or
compress without breaking and be resistant to corrosion as well as being
machinable. The harder the material is, the more brittle and prone to
fatigue or fracture it becomes. If you've ever noticed a small dimple or
peen mark on any metal component that has a strength or durability
requirement, it has probably been hardness tested. There are a number of
ways to measure hardness of materials. Brinell uses a technique where a
known load is applied to a surface with a hardened steel ball of known
diameter. The result of the permanent impression is measured and the Brinell
hardness number can be calculated using this formula where D= dia of the
ball in millimeters, d= dia measured at the rim of the impression in
millimeters and P= load applied in kilograms.
Rockwell testing is similar to Brinell's method with many variations such as
the shape of the penetrating device and methods which they are applied.
Rockwell actually applies a minor load and a major load then derives a
hardness number on either a "B" or "C" scale depending on the variables used
creating the impression.
There are a number of other methods that determine strength and hardness
that I won't go into so as not to bore you with the details.
Rich recalls heat treating metal to Rockwell 70. Assuming this is 4130 he's
referring to, it would be on the Rockwell "B" scale producing a tensile
strength of 61ksi (61,000 lbs per square inch.) O.C.'s gear was 4130 steel
treated to RC 28-32 which produces a tensile strength of 131ksi - 145ksi
(131,000 - 145,000 psi.)
The official definition of Austenite according to wordiq.com is...
Austenite is a solid solution of carbon and iron that exists in steel above
the critical temperature of 1333F (about 723C). It is named after Sir W.C.
Roberts-Austen. Its face-centred cubic (FCC) structure allows it to hold a
high proportion of carbon. As it cools, it breaks down into other materials
such as pearlite (a mixture of ferrite and cementite), martensite and
bainite. The rate of cooling determines the relative proportions of these
materials and therefore the mechanical properties (e.g. hardness, tensile
strength) of the steel.
The addition of certain other metals, such as manganese, nickel and
chromium, can cause the austenitic structure to survive at room temperature,
resulting in austenitic steel.
Hope I've answered your question or at least have you thoroughly confused.
Lyle Hendricks
Hendricks Mfg., Inc.
www.HendricksMfg.com
208-476-7740
==========================================================
-----Original Message-----
From: bakerocb@cox.net [mailto:bakerocb@cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 8:32 PM
Cc: HENDRICKS, LYLE
Subject: KIS TR-1 Nose Gear Heat Treat
6/22/2010
Hello Ken, Rich wrote: "........ the later spring/shock gears were not heat
treated."
Just wanted to let you know that when Lyle Hendricks converted my airfoil
shaped spring / shock nose gear strut to a round tube that it was heat
treated on 11/14/01.
It went through: Normalize at 1650 degrees; Autenitie** at 1575 degrees; and
Temper at 1050 degrees. Rockwell C hardness was 28-31.
Please see the attached picture.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
**PS: My knowledge of heat treatment is pretty limited. This term may really
be austenite as austenitie is something fairly exotic. Maybe Lyle can
clarify this.
=====================================================
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: TR1 Nose Leg material |
Hi Rich,
I'm going on memory, which is questionable. It was probably three years
ago when my nose gear cracked where the solid down rod entered the tube
that became the firewall mount. The tube cracked, not the rod. Their
were 3 or 4 spot welds that mated the rod to the tube. My welder
replaced the tube with a thicker one and added more bracing. The down
rod is threaded on the other end to attach the nose wheel yoke.
This was the version that came with my kit #47 in 1993. You had welded
two horizontal, triangular shaped braces to to the tube as a beef up to
the original (previous?) one. I think this was in response to some
trouble that some were having when landing on turf runways.
Anyway I'd bet my KIS that the down rod is solid 3/4" rod, I think,
(Since you are way down there and I'm not telling you where I am!)
I am sure I posted some pictures on Bob Andersons site. There goes that
memory thing again.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Trickel
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR1 Nose Leg material
John
There never was a solid round bar version made by Tri R so I
would assum that this was a conversion by someone along the way. You
might have to track the original builder to find out what he did
Rich
--- On Wed, 7/21/10, JOHN JACKSON <helixaviation@btinternet.com>
wrote:
From: JOHN JACKSON <helixaviation@btinternet.com>
Subject: KIS-List: TR1 Nose Leg material
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 7:51 PM
Hello Guys
Does anyone know what metal the second generation (solid round
bar) nose leg is made from. I understand that the mounting weldment is
4130; but is the round bar also 4130?
Thanks in anticipation.
JJ
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 7
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| Subject: | Pulsar Sport 150 or KIS2 |
7/21/2010
Hello Fellow KIS TR-1 Builders and Owners, The below copied email from ICAO
is posted for your information.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
PS: I am a bit frustrated because I can not go to the ICAO Doc 8643 and look
at aircraft photographs. Apparently I have some internet security setting on
my computer that I can not get past. If there is some computer literate
member of the group out there that could help me I would appreciate it. I am
on a PC and am using Cox for my internet provider, Outlook Express for my
email, and MS Explorer Version 8.0.6001.18702 for my browser.
=====================================================
>From ICAO
Dear Mr. Baker,
Thank you for your e-mail message and please forgive me for not getting
back to you sooner. I would like to inform you that yes your photo was
accepted by the aircraft type designator study group after review. Your
photograph will now be used to represent the Pulsar Sport 150 model in
the electronic database of Aircraft Type Designators (Doc 8643) . I
would like to thank you for your contribution to Doc 8643.
Best regards,
Steve Laskie
Technical Assistant
SAST Section
International Civil Aviation Organization
========================================================
-----Original Message-----
From: bakerocb@cox.net [mailto:bakerocb@cox.net]
Sent: 19 July 2010 17:08
Subject: Re: Pulsar Sport 150 KIS 2
7/19/2010
Hello Steven Laskie, Has there been any progress in incorporating the
photographs of my Pulsar Sport 150 - KIS2 airplane in the ICAO data
base?
Thank you,
Owen C. Baker
Message 8
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|
| Subject: | Re: TR1 Nose Leg material |
Rich/OC=0A=0AI may be confusing things somewhat.- I have always assumed t
hat my nose leg was =0Aa solid bar but to be honest, I've never checked.-
Certainly the threaded =0Aportion that the castor assembly is attached to
seems solid.=0A=0AI'll try and attach a picture to clear up the confusion.
(The fillet welded onto =0Athe lower bend is a later modification).=0A=0ATh
anks=0A=0AJJ=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "bakero
cb@cox.net" <bakerocb@cox.net>=0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com; helixaviation@
btinternet.com=0ASent: Wednesday, 21 July, 2010 22:41:13=0ASubject: Re: KIS
@cox.net>=0A=0A7/21/2010=0A=0AHello JJ, It would help us to answer your que
stion if we knew why you were =0Aasking it. You wrote:=0A=0A1) "Does anyone
know what metal the second generation....."=0A=0AThere were several iterat
ions of the nose landing gear on the KIS TR-1 so it is =0Aprobably impossib
le to use the term "second generation" and have everybody =0Aunderstand and
agree on just exactly what version of the nose landing gear strut =0Athat
you are asking about.=0A=0A2) ".....(solid round bar).......=0A=0AI never h
ad the very earliest version(s) of the KIS TR-1 nose landing gear strut =0A
in my hands so I looked at the drawings / pictures and assumed that I was
=0Alooking at a round, solid, hardened (spring) steel, tapered rod.=0A=0ABu
t Rich writes: "There never was a solid round bar version made by Tri R....
" =0ASo that leaves further potential confusion regarding the exact KIS TR-
1 nose =0Alanding gear strut, or its source and material, that you are aski
ng about.=0A=0A3) "I understand that the mounting weldment is 4130; but is
the round bar also =0A4130?"=0A=0ASo we can't answer for certain your quest
ion about the material that the mystery =0Asolid, round, nose landing gear
strut is made from, but if you read some of the =0Aemail exchanges copied b
elow I'd be willing to bet that any KIS TR-1 nose =0Alanding gear strut tha
t we know of, regardless of its shape or solidity,- was =0Amade of 4130 s
teel.=0A=0AIf you expand on your question a bit we may be able to provide m
ore help.=0A=0A'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the tim
e and effort to =0Agather and understand knowledge."=0A=0A=====
======0A----- Original Message ----- From: "JOHN JACKSON" <helixa
viation@btinternet.com>=0ATo: <kis-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Wednesday, J
uly 21, 2010 3:51 PM=0ASubject: KIS-List: TR1 Nose Leg material=0A=0A=0A=0A
Hello Guys=0A=0ADoes anyone know what metal the second generation (solid ro
und bar) nose leg is=0Amade from. I understand that the mounting weldment i
s 4130; but is the round=0Abar also 4130?=0A=0AThanks in anticipation.=0A
=0AJJ=0A=0A=====================
==================0A=0A> From Lyle Hendri
cks:=0A=0AO.C., Rich, Ken and all,=0A=0AFirst of all let me clarify that I'
m not a metallurgist, but I have worked=0Awith various metals on a daily ba
sis for the last 25 years and have metal=0Acomponents heat treated on a reg
ular basis (and I did sleep at a Holiday Inn=0Alast night :)=0A=0AAs I see
it, austenite is a condition produced during the heat treatment=0Astage whi
ch gives 4130 steel aircraft components their desired=0Acharacteristics; al
lowing the metal to be strong enough to bend, stretch or=0Acompress without
breaking and be resistant to corrosion as well as being=0Amachinable. The
harder the material is, the more brittle and prone to=0Afatigue or fracture
it becomes. If you've ever noticed a small dimple or=0Apeen mark on any me
tal component that has a strength or durability=0Arequirement, it has proba
bly been hardness tested. There are a number of=0Aways to measure hardness
of materials. Brinell uses a technique where a=0Aknown load is applied to a
surface with a hardened steel ball of known=0Adiameter. The result of the
permanent impression is measured and the Brinell=0Ahardness number can be c
alculated using this formula where D= dia of the=0Aball in millimeters, d
= dia measured at the rim of the impression in=0Amillimeters and P= loa
d applied in kilograms.=0A=0ARockwell testing is similar to Brinell's metho
d with many variations such as=0Athe shape of the penetrating device and me
thods which they are applied.=0ARockwell actually applies a minor load and
a major load then derives a=0Ahardness number on either a "B" or "C" scale
depending on the variables used=0Acreating the impression.=0A=0AThere are a
number of other methods that determine strength and hardness=0Athat I won'
t go into so as not to bore you with the details.=0A=0ARich recalls heat tr
eating metal to Rockwell 70. Assuming this is 4130 he's=0Areferring to, it
would be on the Rockwell "B"- scale producing a tensile=0Astrength of 61k
si (61,000 lbs per square inch.) O.C.'s gear was 4130 steel=0Atreated to RC
28-32 which produces a tensile strength of 131ksi - 145ksi=0A(131,000 - 14
5,000 psi.)=0A=0AThe official definition of Austenite according to wordiq.c
om is...=0A=0AAustenite is a solid solution of carbon and iron that exists
in steel above=0Athe critical temperature of 1333=B0F (about 723=B0C). It i
s named after Sir W.C.=0ARoberts-Austen. Its face-centred cubic (FCC) struc
ture allows it to hold a=0Ahigh proportion of carbon. As it cools, it break
s down into other materials=0Asuch as pearlite (a mixture of ferrite and ce
mentite), martensite and=0Abainite. The rate of cooling determines the rela
tive proportions of these=0Amaterials and therefore the mechanical properti
es (e.g. hardness, tensile=0Astrength) of the steel.=0A=0AThe addition of c
ertain other metals, such as manganese, nickel and=0Achromium, can cause th
e austenitic structure to survive at room temperature,=0Aresulting in auste
nitic steel.=0A=0AHope I've answered your question or at least have you tho
roughly confused.=0A=0ALyle Hendricks=0A=0AHendricks Mfg., Inc.=0A=0Awww.He
ndricksMfg.com=0A=0A208-476-7740=0A=0A============
=======================0A=0A---
--Original Message-----=0AFrom: bakerocb@cox.net [mailto:bakerocb@cox.net]
=0ASent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 8:32 PM=0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com; TRICK
EL, RICH; ken757@comcast.net=0ACc: HENDRICKS, LYLE=0ASubject: KIS TR-1 Nose
Gear Heat Treat=0A=0A6/22/2010=0A=0AHello Ken, Rich wrote: "........ the l
ater spring/shock gears were not heat=0Atreated."=0A=0AJust wanted to let y
ou know that when Lyle Hendricks converted my airfoil=0Ashaped spring / sho
ck nose gear strut to a round tube that it was heat=0Atreated on 11/14/01.
=0A=0AIt went through: Normalize at 1650 degrees; Autenitie** at 1575 degre
es; and=0ATemper at 1050 degrees. Rockwell C hardness was 28-31.=0A=0APleas
e see the attached picture.=0A=0A'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we c
an make is the time and effort to=0Agather and understand knowledge."=0A=0A
**PS: My knowledge of heat treatment is pretty limited. This term may reall
y=0Abe austenite as austenitie is something fairly exotic. Maybe Lyle can
=0Aclarify this.=0A=0A=================
=========================0A
=======================
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: engine optons |
Guys .Guys ..,
Have to chirp in here .. Insurance
companies will assess there risks and price their policies accordingly (
or decline a risk) same as any gamble they take on .. (same as say..
weather insurance for a sporting event or a Dancers Leg or or !!) no
problem ..ie price of a/c cover for non certified engine policy is
whatever ...and certified engine is another amount .. everyday insurance
work ..
I'm in the Subaru camp and agree its a VERY tricky task to achieve a
successful auto conversion ..... I particularly enjoy climb-outs
without the Low airflow and High engine temp loads ......and being able
to put the nose down with power-on and not be crash cooling the poor air
cooled cylinders .. ( sure i have to carry coolant ......)
Our safety digest here always has a page of Cont/Lycoming engine broken
this or that ... ...
Anyway each to theit own ... but i'm not ready to concede Lycomacorus is
as far as it goes ...!!! ( not to say i couldn't change my idea in
the future but ..)
Cheerrs,
Graham ..
PS ... ( currently having factory new Subaru short block blue printed
and x-rayed ..and and ... oh and shopping for a donor car for the
Break-In and Dyno checking ..no more flt testing any un-tested a/c
engine for me ..!! )
.
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Reed
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 12:20 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: engine optons
Rich,
The last statement you made "When I look at the cost of these
conversions I do not see their advantage either" is probably the single
most discouraging point that I found when looking at alternative
engines. In my investigations of engine choices it became clear that
the alternatives currently available were all just as costly or more so
than the traditional engine choices. They also tended to be more
complex from an installation and operational standpoint. While we are
all participating in the "EXPERIMENTAL" aircraft venture and must accept
certain additional roles as builder, mechanic, and inspector of our
aircraft it remains in our best interests to keep the complexity of our
aircraft to within our capabilities or within the capabilities of those
who will work on them. Utilization of an aircraft engine will for the
most part ensure that we can always find someone at the airports we fly
to who can help us with both parts and expertise. Alternative engines
on the other hand will be OUR sole responsibility.
Bob
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 6:51:03 AM
Subject: KIS-List: Re: engine optons
Scott
After many years of playing with planes and watching others
experiment with engines I have to agree with the RV statement. As you
know I started out with a Limbach engine which is a VW engine that was
very well converted to aircraft use.. It worked well and I felt pretty
good with it but always had it in my mind that is was a conversion.
Vance always wanted to try an auto engine but I resisted based on the
track record of these conversions.
When I look at the cost of these conversions I do not see their
advantage either.
Rich
--- On Wed, 7/21/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 2:21 AM
From the RV website... "the best auto conversion is to
convert $10,000 into a good used lycoming".
--- On Tue, 7/20/10, Robert Anderson
<kcruiser1947@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Robert Anderson <kcruiser1947@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, July 20, 2010, 7:07 PM
Hi Larry & All
It seems to me that I remember John Petrie
having trouble with Subaru. If someone makes a control unit for
alternative engines in airplanes it would seem to be worth looking into.
We are all tied together in this matter because of insurance. Avemco
would not insure my Cruiser because of the poor track record of Kis
planes. Lucky for all of us that EAA has put together a plan with Falcon
Ins. Mine is through them with Global.
Bob Anderson
Cruiser N949Y
--- On Mon, 7/19/10, Larry David
<lgdavid@roadrunner.com> wrote:
From: Larry David <lgdavid@roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another
TR-4 Down
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, July 19, 2010, 11:58 PM
The statement fails to recognice that the
construction by a home builder is usually superior then that by an
assembly line worker since the builder has a vested interest in making
things perfect. Guess you can't expect a trouper to understand that
subtle fact. You can check the registration on:
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=N7
67GW
Unfortunately, it does not say what engine.
If it was a Subaru, the description sounds a little like the limp home
mode feature that got my plane also got them. Everyone with a Subaru
engine should have the ECU modified so it can never enter the limp home
mode. Sorry to read about it. My heart goes out to those folks and
their families. Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: Galin Hernandez
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another
TR-4 Down
Especially when they make a comment like:
A Department of Public Safety trooper said
the type of aircraft it was may have increased the risk of a crash.
"Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's called a kit plane -
they put it together themselves and then it's labeled experimental,"
trooper Lonny Haschel said. "That may have been what we are dealing
with."
As if being a trooper qualifies him to make
a statement like that.
Our prayers go out to the pilot and
passenger.
Galin
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Bill
Schertz <wschertz@comcast.net> wrote:
I believe John Davis had installed a
Subaru engine in his plane. Hadn't heard that he sold it, but must have.
Sad, hate to see these things happen.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
Phase I testing
From: Robert Reed
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:21 PM
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Subject: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another
TR-4 Down
Reported on the news tonight in Dallas:
An Experimental Aircraft - TR-4 manufactured by John Davis in 2006 Tail
number N767GW crashed near Denton Texas. Two passengers on board were
taken to Parkland Hospital in Dallas for treatment of injuries. No
additional information on who was flying or on-board. The plane was
totally destroyed by fire with only the tail section appearing to be in
tact.
From what I have been able to learn the
plane was registered Harold Culp in Carrollton Texas. I didn't even
know there was a KIS TR-4 in the area.
I will update as more information becomes
available but in the mean time please keep the pilot and passenger in
your prayers.
Bob Reed
DENTON (CBS 11 / TXA 21) -
A two seat aircraft failed to gain
enough altitude and crashed about a mile south of Denton Municipal
Airport around 7:15 p.m. Sunday A husband and wife were on board and
transported by a CareFlite helicopter to Parkland Hospital with severe
burns.
John Cabrales, City of Denton spokesman,
called the plane an "experimental two-seat aircraft" and confirmed that
it took flight at about 7:12 p.m. from that airport.
The plane was cleared for take-off by
the airport's control tower, but could not gain altitude fast enough. It
lost power in the wind and plummeted to the ground.
At about 8:30 p.m., officers had
sectioned off about a 50 yard section of the field where the plane went
down. In the middle of the area was the demolished aircraft, which burst
into flames during the crash. Debris from the plane was scattered across
the sectioned off area in all directions.
Investigators from the Federal Aviation
Agency will look into what caused the crash. A Department of Public
Safety trooper said the type of aircraft it was may have increased the
risk of a crash.
"Whenever someone makes an aircraft -
maybe it's called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then
it's labeled experimental," trooper Lonny Haschel said. "That may have
been what we are dealing with."
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?KIS-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
://www.matronics..com/Navigator?KIS-List
ics.com
matronics.com/contribution
et=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List=nofollow>htt
p://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-Listet=_blank>ht
tp://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-Listhttp://www.mat======
==============
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: engine optons |
Just read my own post ..Ops ...correction ..ment to say with the water
cooled engine i can do power OFF descent without the crash cooling
problems ..!!
GB.
----- Original Message -----
From: Graham Brighton
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: engine optons
Guys .Guys ..,
Have to chirp in here .. Insurance
companies will assess there risks and price their policies accordingly (
or decline a risk) same as any gamble they take on .. (same as say..
weather insurance for a sporting event or a Dancers Leg or or !!) no
problem ..ie price of a/c cover for non certified engine policy is
whatever ...and certified engine is another amount .. everyday insurance
work ..
I'm in the Subaru camp and agree its a VERY tricky task to achieve a
successful auto conversion ..... I particularly enjoy climb-outs
without the Low airflow and High engine temp loads ......and being able
to put the nose down with power-on and not be crash cooling the poor air
cooled cylinders .. ( sure i have to carry coolant ......)
Our safety digest here always has a page of Cont/Lycoming engine
broken this or that ... ...
Anyway each to theit own ... but i'm not ready to concede Lycomacorus
is as far as it goes ...!!! ( not to say i couldn't change my idea in
the future but ..)
Cheerrs,
Graham ..
PS ... ( currently having factory new Subaru short block blue printed
and x-rayed ..and and ... oh and shopping for a donor car for the
Break-In and Dyno checking ..no more flt testing any un-tested a/c
engine for me ..!! )
.
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Reed
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 12:20 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: engine optons
Rich,
The last statement you made "When I look at the cost of these
conversions I do not see their advantage either" is probably the single
most discouraging point that I found when looking at alternative
engines. In my investigations of engine choices it became clear that
the alternatives currently available were all just as costly or more so
than the traditional engine choices. They also tended to be more
complex from an installation and operational standpoint. While we are
all participating in the "EXPERIMENTAL" aircraft venture and must accept
certain additional roles as builder, mechanic, and inspector of our
aircraft it remains in our best interests to keep the complexity of our
aircraft to within our capabilities or within the capabilities of those
who will work on them. Utilization of an aircraft engine will for the
most part ensure that we can always find someone at the airports we fly
to who can help us with both parts and expertise. Alternative engines
on the other hand will be OUR sole responsibility.
Bob
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 6:51:03 AM
Subject: KIS-List: Re: engine optons
Scott
After many years of playing with planes and watching others
experiment with engines I have to agree with the RV statement. As you
know I started out with a Limbach engine which is a VW engine that was
very well converted to aircraft use.. It worked well and I felt pretty
good with it but always had it in my mind that is was a conversion.
Vance always wanted to try an auto engine but I resisted based on the
track record of these conversions.
When I look at the cost of these conversions I do not see
their advantage either.
Rich
--- On Wed, 7/21/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 2:21 AM
From the RV website... "the best auto conversion is to
convert $10,000 into a good used lycoming".
--- On Tue, 7/20/10, Robert Anderson
<kcruiser1947@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Robert Anderson <kcruiser1947@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another TR-4 Down
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, July 20, 2010, 7:07 PM
Hi Larry & All
It seems to me that I remember John Petrie
having trouble with Subaru. If someone makes a control unit for
alternative engines in airplanes it would seem to be worth looking into.
We are all tied together in this matter because of insurance. Avemco
would not insure my Cruiser because of the poor track record of Kis
planes. Lucky for all of us that EAA has put together a plan with Falcon
Ins. Mine is through them with Global.
Bob Anderson
Cruiser N949Y
--- On Mon, 7/19/10, Larry David
<lgdavid@roadrunner.com> wrote:
From: Larry David <lgdavid@roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another
TR-4 Down
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, July 19, 2010, 11:58 PM
The statement fails to recognice that the
construction by a home builder is usually superior then that by an
assembly line worker since the builder has a vested interest in making
things perfect. Guess you can't expect a trouper to understand that
subtle fact. You can check the registration on:
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=N7
67GW
Unfortunately, it does not say what engine.
If it was a Subaru, the description sounds a little like the limp home
mode feature that got my plane also got them. Everyone with a Subaru
engine should have the ECU modified so it can never enter the limp home
mode. Sorry to read about it. My heart goes out to those folks and
their families. Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: Galin Hernandez
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another
TR-4 Down
Especially when they make a comment like:
A Department of Public Safety trooper said
the type of aircraft it was may have increased the risk of a crash.
"Whenever someone makes an aircraft - maybe it's called a kit plane -
they put it together themselves and then it's labeled experimental,"
trooper Lonny Haschel said. "That may have been what we are dealing
with."
As if being a trooper qualifies him to
make a statement like that.
Our prayers go out to the pilot and
passenger.
Galin
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Bill
Schertz <wschertz@comcast.net> wrote:
I believe John Davis had installed a
Subaru engine in his plane. Hadn't heard that he sold it, but must have.
Sad, hate to see these things happen.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
Phase I testing
From: Robert Reed
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:21 PM
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Subject: KIS-List: Sad Report: Another
TR-4 Down
Reported on the news tonight in Dallas:
An Experimental Aircraft - TR-4 manufactured by John Davis in 2006 Tail
number N767GW crashed near Denton Texas. Two passengers on board were
taken to Parkland Hospital in Dallas for treatment of injuries. No
additional information on who was flying or on-board. The plane was
totally destroyed by fire with only the tail section appearing to be in
tact.
From what I have been able to learn the
plane was registered Harold Culp in Carrollton Texas. I didn't even
know there was a KIS TR-4 in the area.
I will update as more information
becomes available but in the mean time please keep the pilot and
passenger in your prayers.
Bob Reed
DENTON (CBS 11 / TXA 21) -
A two seat aircraft failed to gain
enough altitude and crashed about a mile south of Denton Municipal
Airport around 7:15 p.m. Sunday A husband and wife were on board and
transported by a CareFlite helicopter to Parkland Hospital with severe
burns.
John Cabrales, City of Denton spokesman,
called the plane an "experimental two-seat aircraft" and confirmed that
it took flight at about 7:12 p.m. from that airport.
The plane was cleared for take-off by
the airport's control tower, but could not gain altitude fast enough. It
lost power in the wind and plummeted to the ground.
At about 8:30 p.m., officers had
sectioned off about a 50 yard section of the field where the plane went
down. In the middle of the area was the demolished aircraft, which burst
into flames during the crash. Debris from the plane was scattered across
the sectioned off area in all directions.
Investigators from the Federal Aviation
Agency will look into what caused the crash. A Department of Public
Safety trooper said the type of aircraft it was may have increased the
risk of a crash.
"Whenever someone makes an aircraft -
maybe it's called a kit plane - they put it together themselves and then
it's labeled experimental," trooper Lonny Haschel said. "That may have
been what we are dealing with."
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| Subject: | Re: Pulsar Sport 150 or KIS2 |
NICE OC. My airplane is the ICAO representation of the KIS4. :o)
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 5:33 PM, <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
>
> 7/21/2010
>
> Hello Fellow KIS TR-1 Builders and Owners, The below copied email from ICAO
> is posted for your information.
>
> 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
> gather and understand knowledge."
>
> PS: I am a bit frustrated because I can not go to the ICAO Doc 8643 and
> look at aircraft photographs. Apparently I have some internet security
> setting on my computer that I can not get past. If there is some computer
> literate member of the group out there that could help me I would appreciate
> it. I am on a PC and am using Cox for my internet provider, Outlook Express
> for my email, and MS Explorer Version 8.0.6001.18702 for my browser.
>
> =====================================================
>
> From ICAO
>>
>
> Dear Mr. Baker,
>
> Thank you for your e-mail message and please forgive me for not getting
> back to you sooner. I would like to inform you that yes your photo was
> accepted by the aircraft type designator study group after review. Your
> photograph will now be used to represent the Pulsar Sport 150 model in
> the electronic database of Aircraft Type Designators (Doc 8643) . I
> would like to thank you for your contribution to Doc 8643.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Laskie
> Technical Assistant
> SAST Section
> International Civil Aviation Organization
>
> ========================================================
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bakerocb@cox.net [mailto:bakerocb@cox.net]
> Sent: 19 July 2010 17:08
> To: Laskie, Steve
> Subject: Re: Pulsar Sport 150 KIS 2
>
> 7/19/2010
>
> Hello Steven Laskie, Has there been any progress in incorporating the
> photographs of my Pulsar Sport 150 - KIS2 airplane in the ICAO data
> base?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Owen C. Baker
>
>
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