Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:55 AM - Re: TR1 Nose Leg material (Richard Trickel)
2. 10:14 AM - Re: TR-1 Control forces (Scott Stearns)
3. 01:41 PM - Re: TR-1 Control forces (jerzy krasinski)
4. 03:54 PM - Re: TR-1 Control forces (Galin Hernandez)
5. 04:09 PM - Re: TR-1 Control forces (Scott Stearns)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: TR1 Nose Leg material |
JJ
I think you can get only .188 wall material tube so your only next step is
solid bar.- I would try consulting someone about that.- I guess bolting
the lower section would work though
Rich
--- On Thu, 7/22/10, JOHN JACKSON <helixaviation@btinternet.com> wrote:
From: JOHN JACKSON <helixaviation@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR1 Nose Leg material
Rich and all
-
Thanks for the advice.- I've just removed my nose leg for straightening a
nd found the 'pin' that holds the stub into the tube.-
-
Rather than straightening the original leg, I'm considering replacing the l
ower tube section by drilling out the rosette weld-where it-slides into
the upper portion.
-
Any thoughts about wall thickness of the-replacement lower-tube?- Wou
ld replacing like-for-like be the best bet or does anyone think a thicker w
alled tube would be stronger yet still flexible enough to take out-the sh
ock loads?- Also, how about bolting the nose leg assembly back together (
with suitable bushing) rather than rosette welding; this would make it easi
er to replace the lower portion in the-future if it bends again?- I'd p
lan to have 3 new lower sections made locally and get the whole lot, includ
ing the original mounting bracket, heat treated as per Lyles description.
-
Having completed 320 hours and about 750 landings (250 of which were on to
grass), I'm happy that the nose leg assembly I've got is doing a good job,
it's just not 'man enough' for rough fields.- In future I'll stick to smo
oth grass strips but have some spares incase I hit an unexpected bump.
-
Thanks
-
JJ
From: Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, 22 July, 2010 13:16:54
Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR1 Nose Leg material
JJ
If I recall right the downtube (Lower portion of nosegear) is .156 wall 413
0 that is bent to shape with a threaded plug pinned into place.- This was
then heat treated as per lyles discription.- If you had heated it red to
straighten you would indeed normalize the material to close to its origina
l state. (don=B4t know the real details on normalizing) Lyle????.- this w
ould weaken it and allow it to bend easier.-- you could heat treat it a
gain or have lyle build you a new improved gear at a reasonable price
Rich
--- On Thu, 7/22/10, bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
From: bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR1 Nose Leg material
7/22/2010
Hello Tim,
1) JJ wrote: "Does anyone know what metal the second generation (solid roun
d bar) nose leg...."
2) Rich wrote: "There never was a solid round bar version made by Tri R....
"
3) You wrote: "Anyway I'd bet my KIS that the down rod is solid 3/4" rod...
"
The presumption is that JJ was asking about the angled nose landing gear st
rut that extends from the firewall area down to the short vertical stub whe
n he wrote "nose leg".
Rich answered in that regard when he said that Tri R never made a "solid ro
und bar version".
I don't think that there was any question or doubt that the short vertical
stub was solid steel in all versions of the KIS TR-1 nose landing gear. Onl
y confusion about the solidity of the angled strut portion.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
PS: We still don't know why JJ was asking the question.
==
----- Original Message ----- From: "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR1 Nose Leg material
Hi Rich,
I'm going on memory, which is questionable. It was probably three years ago
when my nose gear cracked where the solid down rod entered the tube that b
ecame the firewall mount. The tube cracked, not the rod. Their were 3 or 4
spot welds that mated the rod to the tube. My welder replaced the tube with
a thicker one and added more bracing. The down rod is threaded on the othe
r end to attach the nose wheel yoke.
This was the version that came with my kit #47 in 1993. You had welded two
horizontal, triangular shaped braces to to the tube as a beef up to the ori
ginal (previous?) one. I think this was in response to some trouble that so
me were having when landing on turf runways.
Anyway I'd bet my KIS that the down rod is solid 3/4" rod, I think, (Since
you are way down there and I'm not telling you where I am!)
I am sure I posted some pictures on Bob Andersons site. There goes that mem
ory thing again.
Tim
=====
----- Original Message ------ From: Richard Trickel
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR1 Nose Leg material
- - ---John
- - ---There never was a solid round bar version made by Tri R so
I would assum that this was a conversion by someone along the way.- You
might have to track the original builder to find out what he did
- - ---Rich
=============
- - - ---From: JOHN JACKSON <helixaviation@btinternet.com>
- - - ---Subject: KIS-List: TR1 Nose Leg material
- - - ---To: kis-list@matronics.com
- - - ---Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 7:51 PM
- - - ---Hello Guys
- - - ---Does anyone know what metal the second generation (sol
id round bar) nose leg is made from.- I understand that the mounting weld
ment is 4130; but is the round bar also 4130?
- - - ---Thanks in anticipation.
- &nb= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, ;---> http://fo
rums.sp; - - - - ---- List Contribution Web Sbsp; - - -
- - - - - - - > http://www.===========
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n" rel=nofollow target=_blank>h
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: TR-1 Control forces |
I put a throttle quadrent on the left side.- I like the stick on the righ
t, throttle on the left.-
-
Scott
--- On Thu, 7/22/10, bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
From: bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR-1 Control forces
7/22/2010
Hello Scott, You wrote: "I made it a center stick, between the seats, too."
So what did you do about throttles? Thanks.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
========
----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Stearns" <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR-1 Control forces
Do the controls feel the same on the ground? It would have been interesting
to put a 10 pound weight on each aileron of each airplane on the ground an
d see if the control forces are the same. I'd guess something in the contro
l system is causing a lot of friction under load in flight. Sticky rod ends
or maybe the bolts that attch the stick to the carry over are too tight.
I ended up redesigning a lot of the control system so it's all ball bearing
s including all the rod ends. It was expensive and probably overkill, but t
he controls are nice. I made it a center stick, between the seats, too.
Cheers,
Scott
le, List Admin.
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: TR-1 Control forces |
I was scratching my head how to do it.
I like throttle on the left and the stick in the right hand.
Installing the throttle on the left makes it inaccessible to the the guy on the
right.
So finally I left the throttle in the center and I fly the KIS from the right
seat, having all pilots instruments on the right.
Jerzy
________________________________
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, July 23, 2010 12:13:21 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR-1 Control forces
I put a throttle quadrent on the left side. I like the stick on the right,
throttle on the left.
Scott
--- On Thu, 7/22/10, bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
>From: bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net>
>Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR-1 Control forces
>To: kis-list@matronics.com
>Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 12:53 PM
>
>
>
>7/22/2010
>
>Hello Scott, You wrote: "I made it a center stick, between the seats, too."
>
>So what did you do about throttles? Thanks.
>
>'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
>gather and understand knowledge."
>
>=================================
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Stearns" <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
>To: <kis-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 1:52 PM
>Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR-1 Control forces
>
>
>Do the controls feel the same on the ground? It would have been interesting to
>put a 10 pound weight on each aileron of each airplane on the ground and see if
>the control forces are the same. I'd guess something in the control system is
>causing a lot of friction under load in flight. Sticky rod ends or maybe the
>bolts that attch the stick to the carry over are too tight.
>
>I ended up redesigning a lot of the control system so it's all ball bearings
>including all the rod ends. It was expensive and probably overkill, but the
>controls are nice. I made it a center stick, be Search & Download, 7-Day Browse,
>Chat, ; --> http://forums.sp; - List Contribution Web Sbsp;
> > http://www.=====================
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: TR-1 Control forces |
Ok. So do you have to fly on the left side of the airways? ;o)
On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 3:36 PM, jerzy krasinski <
jerzy_krasinski@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> I was scratching my head how to do it.
> I like throttle on the left and the stick in the right hand.
> Installing the throttle on the left makes it inaccessible to the the guy on
> the right.
> So finally I left the throttle in the center and I fly the KIS from the
> right seat, having all pilots instruments on the right.
>
> Jerzy
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
> *To:* kis-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Fri, July 23, 2010 12:13:21 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: TR-1 Control forces
>
> I put a throttle quadrent on the left side. I like the stick on the right,
> throttle on the left.
>
> Scott
>
> --- On *Thu, 7/22/10, bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net>* wrote:
>
>
> From: bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR-1 Control forces
> To: kis-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 12:53 PM
>
> >
>
> 7/22/2010
>
> Hello Scott, You wrote: "I made it a center stick, between the seats, too."
>
> So what did you do about throttles? Thanks.
>
> 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
> gather and understand knowledge."
>
> =================================
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Stearns" <sstearns2@yahoo.com<http://us.mc324.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=sstearns2@yahoo.com>
> >
> To: <kis-list@matronics.com<http://us.mc324.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kis-list@matronics.com>
> >
> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 1:52 PM
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR-1 Control forces
>
>
> Do the controls feel the same on the ground? It would have been interesting
> to put a 10 pound weight on each aileron of each airplane on the ground and
> see if the control forces are the same. I'd guess something in the control
> system is causing a lot of friction under load in flight. Sticky rod ends or
> maybe the bolts that attch the stick to the carry over are too tight.
>
> I ended up redesigning a lot of the control system so it's all ball
> bearings including all the rod ends. It was expensive and probably overkill,
> but the controls are nice. I made it a center stick, be Search & Download,
> 7-Day Browse, Chat, ; --> http://forums.sp; - List Contribution
> Web Sbsp; >
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List>
> http://www.=====================
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: TR-1 Control forces |
To have fully dual controls I'd have to mount another throttle quadent (pro
bably just throttle, no mixture) on the right and run some-control cable
-from the right throttle quadrent forward to the back side of the firewal
l and along the back of the firewall-and the back along the left side of
the fuselage to the main throttle quadent.- The right side would need to
have 'reverse' movement, so a-push on the throttle pulls on the cable.-
-
The center stick also presents some issues given that your left hand is the
one free to work the buttons and switches.- I put all the switches and t
he autopilot-on the left side of the panel and the GPS/NAV/Comm is right
in front of the pilot.-
-
It's not a good set up for any kind of flight training, but it works great
for the way I'll use the airplane.
-
Scott
--- On Fri, 7/23/10, jerzy krasinski <jerzy_krasinski@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
From: jerzy krasinski <jerzy_krasinski@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR-1 Control forces
I was scratching my head how to do it.
I like throttle on the left and the stick in the right hand.
Installing the throttle on the left makes it inaccessible to the the guy on
the right.
So finally I left the throttle in the center and I fly the KIS from the rig
ht seat, having all pilots instruments on the right.
Jerzy
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, July 23, 2010 12:13:21 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR-1 Control forces
I put a throttle quadrent on the left side.- I like the stick on the righ
t, throttle on the left.-
-
Scott
--- On Thu, 7/22/10, bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
From: bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR-1 Control forces
7/22/2010
Hello Scott, You wrote: "I made it a center stick, between the seats, too."
So what did you do about throttles? Thanks.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
========
----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Stearns" <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR-1 Control forces
Do the controls feel the same on the ground? It would have been interesting
to put a 10 pound weight on each aileron of each airplane on the ground an
d see if the control forces are the same. I'd guess something in the contro
l system is causing a lot of friction under load in flight. Sticky rod ends
or maybe the bolts that attch the stick to the carry over are too tight.
I ended up redesigning a lot of the control system so it's all ball bearing
s including all the rod ends. It was expensive and probably overkill, but t
he controls are nice. I made it a center stick, be Search & Download, 7-Day
Browse, Chat, ;---> http://forums.sp; - - - - ---- List Co
ntribution Web Sbsp; - - - - - - - - - - > http://www.
=====================
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