Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:45 AM - Re: Aileron/Elervator Trim .. (Graham Brighton)
2. 09:51 AM - Aileron/Elervator Trim .. ()
3. 11:41 PM - Re: Aileron/Elervator Trim .. (Scott Stearns)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron/Elervator Trim .. |
G'Day Guys ,
Just adding 2 bobs worth here for the mix .... My
elevator has a rather Large Pitch Trim Tab i think ( 18 inch length)
..allen electric ..works nice and quick in the circuit ....but during
xcrountry its too aggressive whic results in overshooting fine adjustments
... Have purchased a motor speed controller that i have yet to wire in but
think i have a fix there ok ... My TR1 is Kit # 80 so one after u Keith ...
Would be interested in doing the elevator extension but re working in the
trim makes for a bigger job ...not sure if others have the same size trim as
me ..? ( and anyway can't hold my nose wheel off during flare with my
elevator)
Aileron Trim is by way of an electric Trim tab too.... never needed during
fuel use ...or with/without passenger ... except just one time i had a BIG
passenger , and had to use it to pick the wing up ...but that was just one
time .. would be nice to set the control forces to be even ... but bit
tricky to do with the large acreage Ailerons i think ..
Rudder wise i have just a small bent piece of alloy glued to the trailing
edge that works ok for cruise ..not pretty but very common hey ...
Graham
,
----- Original Message -----
From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 10:33 PM
Subject: KIS-List: Control stop summary?
>
> 8/5/2010
>
> Hello Ted, Control stop fabrication was one of the more puzzling /
> aggravating aspects of building the KIS TR-1.
>
> Here is what I did after much head scratching and fumbling:
>
> A) Pitch: For forward stop I just let the control stick bracket hit the
> front edge of the opening in the pilot's seat bottom. For aft stop I
> installed a mounting bracket and a long hex socket head cap screw (that
> could be adjusted) in the aft side of the bottom of the seat bottom
> opening. The control stick bracket would hit the cap screw head to stop
> aft movement.
>
> B) Aileron: I installed two flat pieces of aluminum, each one held in
> place with a U bracket on the control stick cross over control rod. The
> aluminum pieces butted up against part of the control stick support
> brackets and could be adjusted by loosening, moving the aluminum pieces,
> and retightening the U brackets.
>
> C) Rudder: I bought two cable clamping devices from a boat supply store. I
> clamped these onto the rudder cables behind the seat back and ty wrapped a
> piece of aluminum angle onto each of the cables. The length of the
> aluminum angles provided a stop between the forward edge of the cable
> clamps and the seat back. The cable clamps could be loosened, moved, and
> retightened for adjustment of rudder movement.
>
> All of the above may not be clear. I'll try to provide some pictures one
> of these days. Any questions?
>
> OC
>
> PS: I am still fumbling with trim solutions:
>
> Rudder: I have installed a third extension spring between the aft side of
> the firewall and the right rudder pedal to pull the right rudder pedal
> forward for some right rudder trim at cruise air speeds. The amount of
> pull is adjusted (on the ground) by a ty wrap that connects the spring to
> the right rudder pedal.
>
> Pitch: I still don't have enough travel from the Ray Allen (MAC) pitch
> trim motor to handle both all the nose up and nose down trim desired for
> my spring bias pitch trim system. I have about exhausted my efforts with
> changing spring strength and spacers for my center stop system.
>
> I again used a bent aluminum tab taped onto the elevator on the way home
> for some additional nose down trim on my last long cross country flight so
> that I would not have to constantly hold forward stick pressure. It works
> great, but my back up pilot thinks that it looks tacky -- I tell him that
> any decent homebuilt airplane has some duct tape on it someplace.
>
> Aileron: Only use fuel tank selection to date -- it has worked just OK --
> not entirely satisfactory.
>
> Any suggestions on any of the above from anybody?
>
> ======================================================
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <tmclam@comcast.net>
> To: <kis-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 9:16 PM
> Subject: KIS-List: Fwd: Control stop summary?
>
>
>>
>> Subject: Control stop summary?
>>
>>
>> While we are in a very valuable summary advice mode it should include
>> what the "KIS" gurus [Rich,OC,others] after seeing many KIS airplanes
>> think are the best " control stop"methods to use for all axis.
>> To beef up the Archives
>> Ted
>>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Aileron/Elervator Trim .. |
8/15/2010
Hello Graham, You wrote:
1) "( and anyway can't hold my nose wheel off during flare with my
elevator)"
Is this inability to hold the nose wheel off the runway surface during the
flare itself or immediately after the main gear have touched the runway?
If this inability is after the main landing gear has touched down have you
considered tilting the main landing gear forward with a wedge between the
flat top of the main gear assembly and the fuselage bottom?
2) "Would be interested in doing the elevator extension but re working in
the trim makes for a bigger job"
Do you think that a servo tab would help? See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servo_tab
2) "Rudder wise i have just a small bent piece of alloy glued to the
trailing edge that works ok for cruise ..not pretty but very common hey ..."
For right rudder trim at cruise I added a third extension spring going
forward from the right rudder pedal to the aft side of the fire wall. Part
of the connection of this spring is a ty wrap that allows me (on the ground)
to tweak the adjustment.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
=========================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Brighton" <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au>
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Aileron/Elervator Trim ..
> G'Day Guys ,
> Just adding 2 bobs worth here for the mix .... My
> elevator has a rather Large Pitch Trim Tab i think ( 18 inch length)
> ..allen electric ..works nice and quick in the circuit ....but during
> xcrountry its too aggressive whic results in overshooting fine adjustments
> ... Have purchased a motor speed controller that i have yet to wire in but
> think i have a fix there ok ... My TR1 is Kit # 80 so one after u Keith
> ... Would be interested in doing the elevator extension but re working in
> the trim makes for a bigger job ...not sure if others have the same size
> trim as me ..? ( and anyway can't hold my nose wheel off during flare
> with my elevator)
>
> Aileron Trim is by way of an electric Trim tab too.... never needed during
> fuel use ...or with/without passenger ... except just one time i had a BIG
> passenger , and had to use it to pick the wing up ...but that was just one
> time .. would be nice to set the control forces to be even ... but bit
> tricky to do with the large acreage Ailerons i think ..
>
> Rudder wise i have just a small bent piece of alloy glued to the trailing
> edge that works ok for cruise ..not pretty but very common hey ...
>
> Graham
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron/Elervator Trim .. |
As I remember Rich's factory airplane had an aluminum extention rivited ont
o the trailing edge of the trim tab to make it more effective, but that's n
ot going make the elevator any more effective.-
-
I think if I had a factory sized elevator I would concider bonding on a str
ip of 1/16th inch phenolic sheet to the bottom-trailing edge of the eleva
tor to add about 2 inchs to the chord of the elevator and trim tab.- Glas
s it on with 1 ply and with some body work and a respray-you'd bearly not
ice it.--That would give a more effective elevator, increase the pitch
control forces,-and give-a wider trim range.- -
-
I still haven't done any low speed testing to see how my larger elevator wo
rks.- Still waiting to get my exhaust back and hopefully solve my hot oil
issue.
-
Scott
--- On Sun, 8/15/10, bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
From: bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net>
Subject: KIS-List: Aileron/Elervator Trim ..
8/15/2010
Hello Graham, You wrote:
1) "( and anyway can't hold my nose wheel off during flare with my elevator
)"
Is this inability to hold the nose wheel off the runway surface during the
flare itself or immediately after the main gear have touched the runway?
If- this inability is after the main landing gear has touched down have y
ou considered tilting the main landing gear forward with a wedge between th
e flat top of the main gear assembly and the fuselage bottom?
2) "Would- be interested in doing the elevator extension but re working i
n the trim makes for a bigger job"
Do you think that a servo tab would help? See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servo_tab
2) "Rudder wise i have just a small bent piece of alloy glued to the traili
ng edge that works ok for cruise ..not pretty but very common hey ..."
For right rudder trim at cruise I added a third extension spring going forw
ard from the right rudder pedal to the aft side of the fire wall. Part of t
he connection of this spring is a ty wrap that allows me (on the ground) to
tweak the adjustment.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
=======
----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Brighton" <gbrighton@skymesh.com
.au>
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Aileron/Elervator Trim ..
> G'Day Guys ,
>- - - - - - - - - - - ---Just adding 2 bobs wo
rth here for the mix ....- My elevator has a rather Large Pitch Trim Tab
i think ( 18 inch length) ..allen electric ..works nice and quick in the ci
rcuit ....but during xcrountry its too aggressive whic results in overshoot
ing fine adjustments ... Have purchased a motor speed controller that i hav
e yet to wire in but think i have a fix there ok ... My TR1 is Kit # 80 so
one after u Keith ... Would- be interested in doing the elevator extensio
n but re working in the trim makes for a bigger job ...not sure if others h
ave the same size trim as me ..?- ( and anyway can't hold my nose wheel o
ff during flare with my elevator)
>
> Aileron Trim is by way of an electric Trim tab too.... never needed durin
g fuel use ...or with/without passenger ... except just one time i had a BI
G passenger , and had to use it to pick the wing up ...but that was just on
e time- ..- would be nice to set the control forces to be even ... but
bit tricky to do with the large acreage Ailerons i think ..
>
> Rudder wise i have just a small bent piece of alloy glued to the trailing
edge that works ok for cruise ..not pretty but very common hey ...
>
> Graham
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
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