---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/16/10: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:06 AM - Re: Aileron/Elervator Trim .. (Graham Brighton) 2. 07:41 AM - Re: Aileron/Elervator Trim .. (Flyinisfun@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:51 AM PST US From: "Graham Brighton" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Aileron/Elervator Trim .. Not thinking Trim Tab size is going to help with elevator effectiveness .. but just commenting that mine is quite aggressive and may be a larger size than maybe standard ..!? Re Elevator extension ..was thinking about the same way as u describe but worried i could end up with an ..over-over.. sized trim Tab ..!! (already too sensitive when 'trimming-out' in cruise ..) Busting to see how ur speeds come out when u get to let her go ..!!! ( oh and what ur stall speed is down to with the extra span and lighter weight ?) .. and guess u are too ..!!! Graham .. ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Stearns To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 4:41 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Aileron/Elervator Trim .. As I remember Rich's factory airplane had an aluminum extention rivited onto the trailing edge of the trim tab to make it more effective, but that's not going make the elevator any more effective. I think if I had a factory sized elevator I would concider bonding on a strip of 1/16th inch phenolic sheet to the bottom trailing edge of the elevator to add about 2 inchs to the chord of the elevator and trim tab. Glass it on with 1 ply and with some body work and a respray you'd bearly notice it. That would give a more effective elevator, increase the pitch control forces, and give a wider trim range. I still haven't done any low speed testing to see how my larger elevator works. Still waiting to get my exhaust back and hopefully solve my hot oil issue. Scott --- On Sun, 8/15/10, bakerocb@cox.net wrote: From: bakerocb@cox.net Subject: KIS-List: Aileron/Elervator Trim .. To: kis-list@matronics.com, gbrighton@skymesh.com.au Date: Sunday, August 15, 2010, 9:50 AM 8/15/2010 Hello Graham, You wrote: 1) "( and anyway can't hold my nose wheel off during flare with my elevator)" Is this inability to hold the nose wheel off the runway surface during the flare itself or immediately after the main gear have touched the runway? If this inability is after the main landing gear has touched down have you considered tilting the main landing gear forward with a wedge between the flat top of the main gear assembly and the fuselage bottom? 2) "Would be interested in doing the elevator extension but re working in the trim makes for a bigger job" Do you think that a servo tab would help? See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servo_tab 2) "Rudder wise i have just a small bent piece of alloy glued to the trailing edge that works ok for cruise ..not pretty but very common hey ..." For right rudder trim at cruise I added a third extension spring going forward from the right rudder pedal to the aft side of the fire wall. Part of the connection of this spring is a ty wrap that allows me (on the ground) to tweak the adjustment. 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." ======= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Brighton" To: Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 8:43 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Aileron/Elervator Trim .. > G'Day Guys , > Just adding 2 bobs worth here for the mix .... My elevator has a rather Large Pitch Trim Tab i think ( 18 inch length) ..allen electric ..works nice and quick in the circuit ....but during xcrountry its too aggressive whic results in overshooting fine adjustments ... Have purchased a motor speed controller that i have yet to wire in but think i have a fix there ok ... My TR1 is Kit # 80 so one after u Keith ... Would be interested in doing the elevator extension but re working in the trim makes for a bigger job ...not sure if others have the same size trim as me ..? ( and anyway can't hold my nose wheel off during flare with my elevator) > > Aileron Trim is by way of an electric Trim tab too.... never needed during fuel use ...or with/without passenger ... except just one time i had a BIG passenger , and had to use it to pick the wing up ...but that was just one time .. would be nice to set the control forces to be even ... but bit tricky to do with the large acreage Ailerons i think .. > > Rudder wise i have just a small bent piece of alloy glued to the trailing edge that works ok for cruise ..not pretty and much much onics.com/Navigator?KIS-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navisp; - MATRONICS WEB FObsp; -Matt Dralle, List Adontribution" ====== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:05 AM PST US From: Flyinisfun@aol.com Subject: Re: KIS-List: Aileron/Elervator Trim .. Hi Scott and Graham, I extended the elevator by about 1 1/2" and brought the trailing edge to a knife edge. I had a null spot in neutral position and flew for some time with about a quarter of an inch offset in the trim tab to give me stick pressure. I realized that the knife edge was a problem, causing the null of about 1" deflection before I got any real movement in the plane's attitude and any feel in the stick. I sanded off the knife edge until I had about an 1/8" blunt edge and believe it or not I now have a feel in the stick. If Rich is watching this and OC would you agree this is a realistic evaluation? I can now feel the change of the elevator upon immediate movement and have not done anything else to the plane that would have any effect on the C.G. I've thought about sanding a little more off but maybe not. Jesse Wright ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.