Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:57 AM - Re: Aileron/Elervator Trim .. (Graham Brighton)
2. 05:04 AM - Re: Aileron/Elervator Trim .. ()
3. 01:59 PM - Elevator Trailing Edge ()
4. 03:11 PM - Re: Elevator Trailing Edge (Graham Brighton)
5. 03:34 PM - Re: Elevator Trailing Edge (ALFRED ROSA)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron/Elervator Trim .. |
Hi Jesse,
Thanks for reporting ur experience with ur elevator mod
... I have wondered a lot about how changing the elevator trailing edge
from the original stepped shape to a knife edge would work out ....
would be good to hear what others have experienced as well ..
Graham
.
----- Original Message -----
From: Flyinisfun@aol.com
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Aileron/Elervator Trim ..
Hi Scott and Graham,
I extended the elevator by about 1 1/2" and brought the trailing edge
to a knife edge. I had a null spot in neutral position and flew for
some time with about a quarter of an inch offset in the trim tab to give
me stick pressure. I realized that the knife edge was a problem,
causing the null of about 1" deflection before I got any real movement
in the plane's attitude and any feel in the stick. I sanded off the
knife edge until I had about an 1/8" blunt edge and believe it or not I
now have a feel in the stick.
If Rich is watching this and OC would you agree this is a realistic
evaluation? I can now feel the change of the elevator upon immediate
movement and have not done anything else to the plane that would have
any effect on the C.G. I've thought about sanding a little more off but
maybe not.
Jesse Wright
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron/Elervator Trim .. |
8/17/2010
Hello Jesse, You wrote:
1) "If Rich is watching this and OC would you agree this is a realistic
evaluation?"
Yes. There is extensive experience available about the effects of creating a
blunt trailing edge on a control surface. Here is just one extract via
google:
http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/aircraft-design-aerodynamics-new-technology/7123-blunt-trailing-edge-question.html
2) "I've thought about sanding a little more off but maybe not."
Remember the old adage that goes: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." There
are some structual considerations in sanding more off the trailing edge.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
======================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: <Flyinisfun@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Aileron/Elervator Trim ..
> Hi Scott and Graham,
>
> I extended the elevator by about 1 1/2" and brought the trailing edge to a
> knife edge. I had a null spot in neutral position and flew for some time
> with about a quarter of an inch offset in the trim tab to give me stick
> pressure. I realized that the knife edge was a problem, causing the null
> of
> about 1" deflection before I got any real movement in the plane's attitude
> and any feel in the stick. I sanded off the knife edge until I had about
> an
> 1/8" blunt edge and believe it or not I now have a feel in the stick.
>
> If Rich is watching this and OC would you agree this is a realistic
> evaluation? I can now feel the change of the elevator upon immediate
> movement
> and have not done anything else to the plane that would have any effect
> on
> the C.G. I've thought about sanding a little more off but maybe not.
>
> Jesse Wright
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Elevator Trailing Edge |
8/17/2010
Hello Graham, You wrote: "...changing the elevator trailing edge from the
original stepped shape to a knife edge......"
I don't understand your words "..from the original stepped shape.." for the
elevator trailing edge.
My reading of the construction manual has the trailing edges of the top and
bottom elevator fiberglass skin moldings being glued directly to each other
as they meet. The result, looking at it from a side view, is a flat sided #
isosceles triangle with the trailing edge being the thickness of the two
fiberglass skins plus any adhesive ("a good coat of resin" in the words of
the manual) holding those edges together.*
Where does the "stepped shape" term arise from? Thanks.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
#PS: Flat sided being very important since I discovered (in my effort to
extend the trailing edge of the elevator) that any other shape (concave in
my original case) could result in a significant trimming effect on the
elevator.
*PS: Hence my warning against sanding the trailing edge to far forward lest
one sand away the area being held together by the resin.
===================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Brighton" <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Aileron/Elervator Trim ..
Hi Jesse,
Thanks for reporting ur experience with ur elevator mod ...
I have wondered a lot about how changing the elevator trailing edge from the
original stepped shape to a knife edge would work out .... would be good to
hear what others have experienced as well ..
Graham
================================================================
.
----- Original Message -----
From: Flyinisfun@aol.com
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Aileron/Elervator Trim ..
Hi Scott and Graham,
I extended the elevator by about 1 1/2" and brought the trailing edge to a
knife edge. I had a null spot in neutral position and flew for some time
with about a quarter of an inch offset in the trim tab to give me stick
pressure. I realized that the knife edge was a problem, causing the null of
about 1" deflection before I got any real movement in the plane's attitude
and any feel in the stick. I sanded off the knife edge until I had about an
1/8" blunt edge and believe it or not I now have a feel in the stick.
If Rich is watching this and OC would you agree this is a realistic
evaluation? I can now feel the change of the elevator upon immediate
movement and have not done anything else to the plane that would have any
effect on the C.G. I've thought about sanding a little more off but maybe
not.
Jesse Wright
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trailing Edge |
Hi Back OC ... Yep think i have goofed up .... The Ailerons and Flaps have a
'Stepped' trailing edge ..that obviously works fine ... But i have long
wondered how the airflow characteristics work there ... (as compared with a
more common knife edge trailing edge ... ) But due being too busy with too
much 'other stuff ' and only having a very small brain .. i mistakenly
transposed my aileron/flap puzzlement onto the Elevator trailing edge
question .
Will be at the Hanger tomorrow and will double check ...but am sure u are
rite that the elevator trailing edge is different than the other control
surface trailing edges .. Sorry for my confusion ...!
Graham
.
----- Original Message -----
From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 6:57 AM
Subject: KIS-List: Elevator Trailing Edge
>
> 8/17/2010
>
> Hello Graham, You wrote: "...changing the elevator trailing edge from the
> original stepped shape to a knife edge......"
>
> I don't understand your words "..from the original stepped shape.." for
> the elevator trailing edge.
>
> My reading of the construction manual has the trailing edges of the top
> and bottom elevator fiberglass skin moldings being glued directly to each
> other as they meet. The result, looking at it from a side view, is a flat
> sided # isosceles triangle with the trailing edge being the thickness of
> the two fiberglass skins plus any adhesive ("a good coat of resin" in the
> words of the manual) holding those edges together.*
>
> Where does the "stepped shape" term arise from? Thanks.
>
> 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort
> to gather and understand knowledge."
>
> #PS: Flat sided being very important since I discovered (in my effort to
> extend the trailing edge of the elevator) that any other shape (concave in
> my original case) could result in a significant trimming effect on the
> elevator.
>
> *PS: Hence my warning against sanding the trailing edge to far forward
> lest one sand away the area being held together by the resin.
>
> ===================================================
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Graham Brighton" <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au>
> To: <kis-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 7:56 AM
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Aileron/Elervator Trim ..
>
>
> Hi Jesse,
> Thanks for reporting ur experience with ur elevator mod
> ... I have wondered a lot about how changing the elevator trailing edge
> from the original stepped shape to a knife edge would work out .... would
> be good to hear what others have experienced as well ..
>
> Graham
>
> ================================================================
> .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Flyinisfun@aol.com
> To: kis-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 12:33 AM
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Aileron/Elervator Trim ..
>
>
> Hi Scott and Graham,
>
> I extended the elevator by about 1 1/2" and brought the trailing edge to
> a knife edge. I had a null spot in neutral position and flew for some
> time with about a quarter of an inch offset in the trim tab to give me
> stick pressure. I realized that the knife edge was a problem, causing the
> null of about 1" deflection before I got any real movement in the plane's
> attitude and any feel in the stick. I sanded off the knife edge until I
> had about an 1/8" blunt edge and believe it or not I now have a feel in
> the stick.
>
> If Rich is watching this and OC would you agree this is a realistic
> evaluation? I can now feel the change of the elevator upon immediate
> movement and have not done anything else to the plane that would have any
> effect on the C.G. I've thought about sanding a little more off but maybe
> not.
>
> Jesse Wright
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trailing Edge |
By "stepped" I think he's referring to a squared off trailing edge (blunt).
I made my elevator with a 1/8 to 3/16 squared off trailing edge.
I don't think you should go any thicker than that. Also, increasing the
chord 1 1/2 to 2 inches is a good idea. Best way to increase the chord is
along the chord line. See Bob Reed's web site for pics on how I did it.
Al Rosa
Al
On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 4:57 PM, <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
>
> 8/17/2010
>
> Hello Graham, You wrote: "...changing the elevator trailing edge from the
> original stepped shape to a knife edge......"
>
> I don't understand your words "..from the original stepped shape.." for the
> elevator trailing edge.
>
> My reading of the construction manual has the trailing edges of the top and
> bottom elevator fiberglass skin moldings being glued directly to each other
> as they meet. The result, looking at it from a side view, is a flat sided #
> isosceles triangle with the trailing edge being the thickness of the two
> fiberglass skins plus any adhesive ("a good coat of resin" in the words of
> the manual) holding those edges together.*
>
> Where does the "stepped shape" term arise from? Thanks.
>
> 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
> gather and understand knowledge."
>
> #PS: Flat sided being very important since I discovered (in my effort to
> extend the trailing edge of the elevator) that any other shape (concave in
> my original case) could result in a significant trimming effect on the
> elevator.
>
> *PS: Hence my warning against sanding the trailing edge to far forward lest
> one sand away the area being held together by the resin.
>
> ===================================================
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Brighton" <
> gbrighton@skymesh.com.au>
> To: <kis-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 7:56 AM
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Aileron/Elervator Trim ..
>
>
> Hi Jesse,
> Thanks for reporting ur experience with ur elevator mod ...
> I have wondered a lot about how changing the elevator trailing edge from the
> original stepped shape to a knife edge would work out .... would be good to
> hear what others have experienced as well ..
>
> Graham
>
> ================================================================
> .
> ----- Original Message ----- From: Flyinisfun@aol.com
> To: kis-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 12:33 AM
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Aileron/Elervator Trim ..
>
>
> Hi Scott and Graham,
>
> I extended the elevator by about 1 1/2" and brought the trailing edge to a
> knife edge. I had a null spot in neutral position and flew for some time
> with about a quarter of an inch offset in the trim tab to give me stick
> pressure. I realized that the knife edge was a problem, causing the null of
> about 1" deflection before I got any real movement in the plane's attitude
> and any feel in the stick. I sanded off the knife edge until I had about an
> 1/8" blunt edge and believe it or not I now have a feel in the stick.
>
> If Rich is watching this and OC would you agree this is a realistic
> evaluation? I can now feel the change of the elevator upon immediate
> movement and have not done anything else to the plane that would have any
> effect on the C.G. I've thought about sanding a little more off but maybe
> not.
>
> Jesse Wright
>
>
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