---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 08/22/10: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:22 AM - Re: Elevator Trailing Edge (Graham Brighton) 2. 05:39 AM - Re: TR-1 Elevator (Graham Brighton) 3. 11:27 AM - Re: TR-1 Elevator (F. Tim Yoder) 4. 11:35 AM - KIS TR-1 Controls () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:54 AM PST US From: "Graham Brighton" Subject: KIS-List: Re: Elevator Trailing Edge OC... , Re Query A, .. Nup no rudder cables outside the fuse ... Not sure of the actual cable hook up back there as the 2 Batteries are mounted in the tail and block easy view ... B, .. Sorry can't remember the trim servo hook up ...but i will remove the cover plate and check back to u .. C, .. Re the Tinnerman like disk .... i suspect home fabbed up on the lathe .. Like Tim i bored out a hole about the similar size for the tire valve access ....and used a rubber plug ( like used to blank-off a wiring harness hole in say an auto firewall ) Sorry not more help .. Graham .. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 12:50 AM Subject: Elevator Trailing Edge > 8/19/2010 > > Hello Graham, Thanks for the answers. You wrote: > > 1) ".. named Duane Robinson.." > > And a huge tip of the Baker hat to Duane. I don't recall that name coming > up > previously in the KIS builders group. He must have been too busy building > to > fiddle around on a computer. Duane, are you out there? > > Your attached picture has generated a few more questions: > > A) I don't see any rudder control cable coming out the side of the > fuselage > and going to a rudder horn. How did Duane accomplish control of the > rudder? > > B) Also I don't see any evidence of an exposed elevator pitch trim tab > control horn. How did he accomplish control of the pitch trim tab? Duane > appears to be a very innovative and clever builder. > > C) Note the round metal cover with the screw in the center that partially > fills in the opening where the elevator spar goes through the fuselage. It > appears that Duane used something like a Tinnerman A6914-1024-1 patch > plate. > Right now I am searching in vain to purchase some of these to cover holes > in > my wheel pants. Any ideas? > > 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort > to > gather and understand knowledge." > > ============================================================ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Graham Brighton" > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 8:30 AM > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Fw: Elevator Trailing Edge > > >> OC .. To answer ur queries ... The Silver Metal Can is the electric Flap >> actuator motor ...its mounted on an angle so it can clear the seat ... >> the >> drive shaft is flexible ...it isn't showing any visible signs of ware >> even >> though it is running well out of alignment as u can see in the pic ..... >> >> The short welded on lug/stopper which provides the limit of the >> stick aft travel ( when it reaches the alloy angle stopper screwed onto >> the >> console board ) was on the a/c as i purchased it ..it all looks original >> .. >> The throw travel of the stick fwd is provided for by the stick mounting >> bracket just contacting (hitting) onto the spar tunnel .. >> >> My TR1 was built by a US guy back in '97 .. named Duane Robinson ... It >> was >> his last build of seven different completed a/c ...one of which was a >> Helicopter ..yep truly amazing effort !!!!!!!! Later contracted Leukemia >> probably from the various plastics he was working with over many yrs.. >> responded to treatment and was thankfully still well when i last spoke to >> him 12 mths ago ... >> >> Got out to the Hanger today and refreshed my head about the Elevator >> Trailing Edge and have attached a Pic .. as the saying goes a picture >> tells a thousand words ... i could have saved a lot confusion by being >> clearer ... The Stepped edge i was trying to explain .... should have >> been >> better described as ' under molded step trailing edge' or something ..!! >> >> Can see the reason for the step ...as being a means of bringing the >> sandwich >> skins to a junction ... and it obviously works fine ...its just that it >> takes my attention and i wonder about the airflow there .. especially >> with >> regard to effects on 'stick feel' etc on other trailing edge profiles .. >> >> Anyway other more pressing items to deal with ..like the Engine build >> that >> is still under way ... >> >> Cheers >> Graham > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:39:44 AM PST US From: "Graham Brighton" Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR-1 Elevator G'Day Tim, Thx for the great Pic's and measurements ... are really helpful ... Am i understanding u rite that with standard Gear position ..(not wedged) ..u can hold ur Nose wheel off after touch down like say a cessna/cherokee ..or ..? Also i presume we all have the same 'molded stepped ' trailing edge on the under skin of our Flaps and Ailerons ...is that what u have as well Tim ..? Thx Graham .. ----- Original Message ----- From: F. Tim Yoder To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:59 AM Subject: KIS-List: TR-1 Hello 'OC' and Graham, Attached are pictures of my horizontal stab. showing its dimensions. I extended the cord of the elevator, but I forget how much. For me, I have plenty of authority. The trailing edge is about 3/32" thick. The trailing edge of my flaps and ailerons is 3/16" thick. "OC" the pictures of my wheel pant are showing how I plugged my holes with chrome caps from Home Depot. Tim ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:27:52 AM PST US From: "F. Tim Yoder" Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR-1 Elevator Hello Graham, Yes, with the standard gear position I can hold the nose wheel off after touch down,with my enlarged elevator. If you measure your stock elevator you will know how much I extended mine. 1 1/2" I think. At main gear touch down I have to be sure not to relax stick pressure or the nose gear will drop. If you can measure your cowl joggle to main gear center line you can compare yours with several others that "OC" has on a spread sheet. As I understand it, if you wedge your main gear forward it reduces the speed of the nose drop which reduces the need for a larger elevator to hold the nose Mine also came that way but I filled them in with micro balloons to create the 3/16 to 1/4" squared off trailing edge. Good to hear from you, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: Graham Brighton To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:39 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR-1 Elevator G'Day Tim, Thx for the great Pic's and measurements ... are really helpful ... Am i understanding u rite that with standard Gear position ..(not wedged) ..u can hold ur Nose wheel off after touch down like say a cessna/cherokee ..or ..? Also i presume we all have the same 'molded stepped ' trailing edge on the under skin of our Flaps and Ailerons ...is that what u have as well Tim ..? Thx Graham . ----- Original Message ----- From: F. Tim Yoder To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:59 AM Subject: KIS-List: TR-1 Hello 'OC' and Graham, Attached are pictures of my horizontal stab. showing its dimensions. I extended the cord of the elevator, but I forget how much. For me, I have plenty of authority. The trailing edge is about 3/32" thick. The trailing edge of my flaps and ailerons is 3/16" thick. "OC" the pictures of my wheel pant are showing how I plugged my holes with chrome caps from Home Depot. Tim ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 08/21/10 11:35:00 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:35:21 AM PST US From: Subject: KIS-List: KIS TR-1 Controls 8/22/2010 Hello Graham, You wrote: 1) "Sorry not a big help on the rudder cable set up.." No problem -- just curious about how Duane accomplished that. My solution was a bell crank terminating the rudder cables with a push rod going to a shortened rudder horn. 2) "will have to climb in back there and check its not wearing apart though" I created a removable inspection panel on the lower left side of the fuselage for access to the bell crank and associated connections. 3) "My TR1 came with shortened sticks" and ".... much heavier Stick forces....." Even with my extended pilot's control stick the ailerons are still very heavy -- I noticed this same thing when I flew Rich's plane prior to buying my kit. It is a nuisance flying my plane from the copilot's seat because one has to reach down between their thighs with the tips of their fingers to reach the very top of the stick grip. 4) "I built in a twist lock from a telescoping painting handle" Clever solution. 5) "with say wing-leveler engaged working the lapboard while xcountry" I recently replaced my Navaid autopilot controller with a Trio Avionics E Z Pilot controller (kept the Navaid servo). This was a great leap forward in capability. http://www.trioavionics.com/ez_pilot.htm 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." ================================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Brighton" Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 9:14 AM Subject: Re: Elevator Trailing Edge > Hi Back .. > > Sorry not a big help on the rudder cable set up .... will > have to climb in back there and check its not wearing apart though .!! > > Re the C/Stick assembly ... A local maintenance guy told me that our set > up > is taken direct from Lancair and as our Flap area is much larger ...its > the > reason we have much heavier Stick forces ... (and may be something to do > with some kits having/not having lugs stoppers or or .. ?) > Also the Lancair theory maybe complete BS ...!? > > My TR1 came with shortened sticks that made the ailerons even heavier ... > The short stick was however handy for map reading and lapboard use etc ... > I > thought about reworking the linkage ratios ..but that is quite a task ... > as > a quick fix i modded up the c'stick to 'telescope ' ... down short with > say > wing-leveler engaged working the lapboard while xcountry .. or extended > long > for lighter ailerons for local flying .. sounds very ..er > ..unconventional > ..and mite spook so guys .. works fine to a point ...only thing is the > pitch > and roll are still very unequal (un-harmonized ) ...plan on getting back > to > that some time ... off in the future though .. > > I built in a twist lock from a telescoping painting handle ....to make my > 'adjustable' c'stick ..!!.... proberbly bit too .. noval for many ..but > the > heavy ailerons bugged me ... but the cut down stick sure was handy > xcountry > ..so..!! > > Graham ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.