Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:35 AM - Re: fuel seepage (Richard Trickel)
2. 09:05 AM - Re: fuel seepage (Scott Stearns)
3. 09:06 AM - Re: fuel seepage (Scott Stearns)
4. 10:39 AM - Re: fuel seepage (Richard Trickel)
5. 10:43 AM - Re: fuel seepage (Richard Trickel)
6. 10:57 AM - Re: fuel seepage (Scott Stearns)
7. 11:00 AM - Re: fuel seepage (Scott Stearns)
8. 04:44 PM - Re: fuel seepage (Larry David)
9. 04:57 PM - Re: fuel seepage (Scott Stearns)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: fuel seepage |
Scott
If the fuel stains are around the aileron screws I think your problem may b
e fuel coming out of the cap.-I also had this problem and found that leav
ing the tanks a little low solved the problem.- During flight you cannot
see the fuel coming out but it does.--Check your fuel caps.- -I dou
bt very much that fuel would seep that far through the foam core.- The co
re is closed cell so the only way fuel could travel is along the skin/core
bond.- Have you tested the tank for air leakage with a monometer.- I wo
uld start there and take it step by step.
Rich
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: KIS-List: fuel seepage
My right wing has a lot of small places where fuel is seeping out of the la
minate.- For instance some of the screws that hold the aileron on-have
blue stains around them.- It's pretty clear that fuel has gotten into the
wing skin sandwich panel and is wicking through laminate and foam.- The
left wing doesn't have any fuel seeps.
-
The top right wing skin also has a lot of the weave showing through which m
ight be related to the fuel getting to the panel.
-
I'm a bit surprised since the fuel tanks have two coat of the jeffco fuel s
ealer in them.- I played around with some sandwich panel that is the same
material as the wing skin (but without fuel sealer)-and fuel soaks throu
gh the laminate and through the foam core easily.
-
Anyone have any thoughts?-- Should I worry or is this common?-
-
Scott
=0A=0A=0A
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Subject: | Re: fuel seepage |
Hi Rich,
-
I have a laminate that is just like the wing laminate.- I poured a pool o
f fuel on top of it and it readily soaked thru the laminate and through the
foam core.- The carbon was somewhat low resin content and I didn't use g
lue sheet in the wing skins.
-
I also had areas in the wingtip where fuel was seeping out of the wing skin
-laminate.- Also some of the areas around the-screws that hold the lo
wer wing root fairing on are pretty badly blue stained.
-
Scott
-
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Scott
If the fuel stains are around the aileron screws I think your problem may b
e fuel coming out of the cap.-I also had this problem and found that leav
ing the tanks a little low solved the problem.- During flight you cannot
see the fuel coming out but it does.--Check your fuel caps.- -I dou
bt very much that fuel would seep that far through the foam core.- The co
re is closed cell so the only way fuel could travel is along the skin/core
bond.- Have you tested the tank for air leakage with a monometer.- I wo
uld start there and take it step by step.
Rich
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: KIS-List: fuel seepage
My right wing has a lot of small places where fuel is seeping out of the la
minate.- For instance some of the screws that hold the aileron on-have
blue stains around them.- It's pretty clear that fuel has gotten into the
wing skin sandwich panel and is wicking through laminate and foam.- The
left wing doesn't have any fuel seeps.
-
The top right wing skin also has a lot of the weave showing through which m
ight be related to the fuel getting to the panel.
-
I'm a bit surprised since the fuel tanks have two coat of the jeffco fuel s
ealer in them.- I played around with some sandwich panel that is the same
material as the wing skin (but without fuel sealer)-and fuel soaks throu
gh the laminate and through the foam core easily.
-
Anyone have any thoughts?-- Should I worry or is this common?-
-
Scott
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et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
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Subject: | Re: fuel seepage |
I'm fixing the-seeps in a variety of ways, but I'm mainly about the fuel
being in the wing skin laminate.
-
Scott
--- On Mon, 10/18/10, F. Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com> wrote:
From: F. Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Bummer! I think Rich has recommended creating a vacuum in the tank and appl
ying a thin epoxy mix to the affected surface areas, the vacuum sucks the e
poxy into the voids.-You should find this and other recommendations in th
e archives.
-
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Stearns
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 10:01 PM
Subject: KIS-List: fuel seepage
My right wing has a lot of small places where fuel is seeping out of the la
minate.- For instance some of the screws that hold the aileron on-have
blue stains around them.- It's pretty clear that fuel has gotten into the
wing skin sandwich panel and is wicking through laminate and foam.- The
left wing doesn't have any fuel seeps.
-
The top right wing skin also has a lot of the weave showing through which m
ight be related to the fuel getting to the panel.
-
I'm a bit surprised since the fuel tanks have two coat of the jeffco fuel s
ealer in them.- I played around with some sandwich panel that is the same
material as the wing skin (but without fuel sealer)-and fuel soaks throu
gh the laminate and through the foam core easily.
-
Anyone have any thoughts?-- Should I worry or is this common?-
-
Scott
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?KIS-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=0A=0A=0A
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: fuel seepage |
Scott
are your skins honeycomb or foam
Rich
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
I'm fixing the-seeps in a variety of ways, but I'm mainly about the fuel
being in the wing skin laminate.
-
Scott
--- On Mon, 10/18/10, F. Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com> wrote:
From: F. Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Bummer! I think Rich has recommended creating a vacuum in the tank and appl
ying a thin epoxy mix to the affected surface areas, the vacuum sucks the e
poxy into the voids.-You should find this and other recommendations in th
e archives.
-
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Stearns
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 10:01 PM
Subject: KIS-List: fuel seepage
My right wing has a lot of small places where fuel is seeping out of the la
minate.- For instance some of the screws that hold the aileron on-have
blue stains around them.- It's pretty clear that fuel has gotten into the
wing skin sandwich panel and is wicking through laminate and foam.- The
left wing doesn't have any fuel seeps.
-
The top right wing skin also has a lot of the weave showing through which m
ight be related to the fuel getting to the panel.
-
I'm a bit surprised since the fuel tanks have two coat of the jeffco fuel s
ealer in them.- I played around with some sandwich panel that is the same
material as the wing skin (but without fuel sealer)-and fuel soaks throu
gh the laminate and through the foam core easily.
-
Anyone have any thoughts?-- Should I worry or is this common?-
-
Scott
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?KIS-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 5
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Subject: | Re: fuel seepage |
Scott I should have asked what the foam core is.- The fact that the carbo
n cloth is porus is understandable but I was always under the belief that c
losed cell foam would not pass the fuel.- This is one of the reason I use
d it..- I would definately do a pressure check on the wing based on your
discription of seapage.- Fuel is funny though.- Those fuel molecules ar
e sneaky little bastards.
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Hi Rich,
-
I have a laminate that is just like the wing laminate.- I poured a pool o
f fuel on top of it and it readily soaked thru the laminate and through the
foam core.- The carbon was somewhat low resin content and I didn't use g
lue sheet in the wing skins.
-
I also had areas in the wingtip where fuel was seeping out of the wing skin
-laminate.- Also some of the areas around the-screws that hold the lo
wer wing root fairing on are pretty badly blue stained.
-
Scott
-
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Scott
If the fuel stains are around the aileron screws I think your problem may b
e fuel coming out of the cap.-I also had this problem and found that leav
ing the tanks a little low solved the problem.- During flight you cannot
see the fuel coming out but it does.--Check your fuel caps.- -I dou
bt very much that fuel would seep that far through the foam core.- The co
re is closed cell so the only way fuel could travel is along the skin/core
bond.- Have you tested the tank for air leakage with a monometer.- I wo
uld start there and take it step by step.
Rich
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: KIS-List: fuel seepage
My right wing has a lot of small places where fuel is seeping out of the la
minate.- For instance some of the screws that hold the aileron on-have
blue stains around them.- It's pretty clear that fuel has gotten into the
wing skin sandwich panel and is wicking through laminate and foam.- The
left wing doesn't have any fuel seeps.
-
The top right wing skin also has a lot of the weave showing through which m
ight be related to the fuel getting to the panel.
-
I'm a bit surprised since the fuel tanks have two coat of the jeffco fuel s
ealer in them.- I played around with some sandwich panel that is the same
material as the wing skin (but without fuel sealer)-and fuel soaks throu
gh the laminate and through the foam core easily.
-
Anyone have any thoughts?-- Should I worry or is this common?-
-
Scott
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
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=0A=0A=0A
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: fuel seepage |
Foam.... orange foam... the fuel soaks through it easily but doesn't seem t
o effect it.- I have a jar of fuel that I'm soaking a few pieces of the l
aminate in.
-
Scott
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Scott
are your skins honeycomb or foam
Rich
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
I'm fixing the-seeps in a variety of ways, but I'm mainly about the fuel
being in the wing skin laminate.
-
Scott
--- On Mon, 10/18/10, F. Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com> wrote:
From: F. Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Bummer! I think Rich has recommended creating a vacuum in the tank and appl
ying a thin epoxy mix to the affected surface areas, the vacuum sucks the e
poxy into the voids.-You should find this and other recommendations in th
e archives.
-
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Stearns
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 10:01 PM
Subject: KIS-List: fuel seepage
My right wing has a lot of small places where fuel is seeping out of the la
minate.- For instance some of the screws that hold the aileron on-have
blue stains around them.- It's pretty clear that fuel has gotten into the
wing skin sandwich panel and is wicking through laminate and foam.- The
left wing doesn't have any fuel seeps.
-
The top right wing skin also has a lot of the weave showing through which m
ight be related to the fuel getting to the panel.
-
I'm a bit surprised since the fuel tanks have two coat of the jeffco fuel s
ealer in them.- I played around with some sandwich panel that is the same
material as the wing skin (but without fuel sealer)-and fuel soaks throu
gh the laminate and through the foam core easily.
-
Anyone have any thoughts?-- Should I worry or is this common?-
-
Scott
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?KIS-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A=0A=0A
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: fuel seepage |
I was amazed at how 'seepy' 100LL is when I was playing with it and the-s
crap pieces of-laminate-yesterday.- It just wants to wick into anythi
ng and seep everywhere.-
-
Scott
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Scott I should have asked what the foam core is.- The fact that the carbo
n cloth is porus is understandable but I was always under the belief that c
losed cell foam would not pass the fuel.- This is one of the reason I use
d it..- I would definately do a pressure check on the wing based on your
discription of seapage.- Fuel is funny though.- Those fuel molecules ar
e sneaky little bastards.
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Hi Rich,
-
I have a laminate that is just like the wing laminate.- I poured a pool o
f fuel on top of it and it readily soaked thru the laminate and through the
foam core.- The carbon was somewhat low resin content and I didn't use g
lue sheet in the wing skins.
-
I also had areas in the wingtip where fuel was seeping out of the wing skin
-laminate.- Also some of the areas around the-screws that hold the lo
wer wing root fairing on are pretty badly blue stained.
-
Scott
-
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Scott
If the fuel stains are around the aileron screws I think your problem may b
e fuel coming out of the cap.-I also had this problem and found that leav
ing the tanks a little low solved the problem.- During flight you cannot
see the fuel coming out but it does.--Check your fuel caps.- -I dou
bt very much that fuel would seep that far through the foam core.- The co
re is closed cell so the only way fuel could travel is along the skin/core
bond.- Have you tested the tank for air leakage with a monometer.- I wo
uld start there and take it step by step.
Rich
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: KIS-List: fuel seepage
My right wing has a lot of small places where fuel is seeping out of the la
minate.- For instance some of the screws that hold the aileron on-have
blue stains around them.- It's pretty clear that fuel has gotten into the
wing skin sandwich panel and is wicking through laminate and foam.- The
left wing doesn't have any fuel seeps.
-
The top right wing skin also has a lot of the weave showing through which m
ight be related to the fuel getting to the panel.
-
I'm a bit surprised since the fuel tanks have two coat of the jeffco fuel s
ealer in them.- I played around with some sandwich panel that is the same
material as the wing skin (but without fuel sealer)-and fuel soaks throu
gh the laminate and through the foam core easily.
-
Anyone have any thoughts?-- Should I worry or is this common?-
-
Scott
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A=0A=0A
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: fuel seepage |
Scott, When I was having my gasohol problems, you gave me the Jeffco 9700 i
dea and it solved my leakeage problem. I am surprised that fuel is getting
past the Jeffco 9700. Is it possible that somehing has happened to the wi
ng during your test flights? Something seems to have changed. Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Trickel
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Scott I should have asked what the foam core is. The fact that the
carbon cloth is porus is understandable but I was always under the belief
that closed cell foam would not pass the fuel. This is one of the reason I
used it.. I would definately do a pressure check on the wing based on you
r discription of seapage. Fuel is funny though. Those fuel molecules are
sneaky little bastards.
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 4:02 PM
Hi Rich,
I have a laminate that is just like the wing laminate. I p
oured a pool of fuel on top of it and it readily soaked thru the laminate a
nd through the foam core. The carbon was somewhat low resin content and I
didn't use glue sheet in the wing skins.
I also had areas in the wingtip where fuel was seeping out
of the wing skin laminate. Also some of the areas around the screws that h
old the lower wing root fairing on are pretty badly blue stained.
Scott
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yaho
o.com> wrote:
From: Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 5:27 AM
Scott
If the fuel stains are around the aileron screws I
think your problem may be fuel coming out of the cap. I also had this probl
em and found that leaving the tanks a little low solved the problem. Durin
g flight you cannot see the fuel coming out but it does. Check your fuel c
aps. I doubt very much that fuel would seep that far through the foam cor
e. The core is closed cell so the only way fuel could travel is along the
skin/core bond. Have you tested the tank for air leakage with a monometer.
I would start there and take it step by step.
Rich
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yaho
o.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: KIS-List: fuel seepage
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 5:01 AM
My right wing has a lot of small places whe
re fuel is seeping out of the laminate. For instance some of the screws th
at hold the aileron on have blue stains around them. It's pretty clear tha
t fuel has gotten into the wing skin sandwich panel and is wicking through
laminate and foam. The left wing doesn't have any fuel seeps.
The top right wing skin also has a lot of t
he weave showing through which might be related to the fuel getting to the
panel.
I'm a bit surprised since the fuel tanks ha
ve two coat of the jeffco fuel sealer in them. I played around with some s
andwich panel that is the same material as the wing skin (but without fuel
sealer) and fuel soaks through the laminate and through the foam core easil
y.
Anyone have any thoughts? Should I worry
or is this common?
Scott
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: fuel seepage |
Hi Larry,
-
The seepage started fairly soon after I put a significant amount of fuel in
it.- After playing with the scrap laminate and fuel it looks like it wou
ld only take a small area to be exposed which is probably what's happening.
-
-
Scott
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Larry David <lgdavid@roadrunner.com> wrote:
From: Larry David <lgdavid@roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Scott, When I was having my gasohol problems, you gave me the Jeffco 9700 i
dea and it solved my leakeage problem.- I am surprised that fuel is getti
ng past the Jeffco 9700.--Is it possible that somehing has happened to
the wing during your test flights?--Something seems to have changed.-
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Trickel
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Scott I should have asked what the foam core is.- The fact that the carbo
n cloth is porus is understandable but I was always under the belief that c
losed cell foam would not pass the fuel.- This is one of the reason I use
d it..- I would definately do a pressure check on the wing based on your
discription of seapage.- Fuel is funny though.- Those fuel molecules ar
e sneaky little bastards.
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Hi Rich,
-
I have a laminate that is just like the wing laminate.- I poured a pool o
f fuel on top of it and it readily soaked thru the laminate and through the
foam core.- The carbon was somewhat low resin content and I didn't use g
lue sheet in the wing skins.
-
I also had areas in the wingtip where fuel was seeping out of the wing skin
-laminate.- Also some of the areas around the-screws that hold the lo
wer wing root fairing on are pretty badly blue stained.
-
Scott
-
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Scott
If the fuel stains are around the aileron screws I think your problem may b
e fuel coming out of the cap.-I also had this problem and found that leav
ing the tanks a little low solved the problem.- During flight you cannot
see the fuel coming out but it does.--Check your fuel caps.- -I dou
bt very much that fuel would seep that far through the foam core.- The co
re is closed cell so the only way fuel could travel is along the skin/core
bond.- Have you tested the tank for air leakage with a monometer.- I wo
uld start there and take it step by step.
Rich
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: KIS-List: fuel seepage
My right wing has a lot of small places where fuel is seeping out of the la
minate.- For instance some of the screws that hold the aileron on-have
blue stains around them.- It's pretty clear that fuel has gotten into the
wing skin sandwich panel and is wicking through laminate and foam.- The
left wing doesn't have any fuel seeps.
-
The top right wing skin also has a lot of the weave showing through which m
ight be related to the fuel getting to the panel.
-
I'm a bit surprised since the fuel tanks have two coat of the jeffco fuel s
ealer in them.- I played around with some sandwich panel that is the same
material as the wing skin (but without fuel sealer)-and fuel soaks throu
gh the laminate and through the foam core easily.
-
Anyone have any thoughts?-- Should I worry or is this common?-
-
Scott
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