Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:45 AM - Re: fuel seepage (Graham Brighton)
2. 05:50 AM - Re: fuel seepage (Mark Kettering)
3. 08:51 AM - Re: fuel seepage (Richard Trickel)
4. 11:54 AM - Re: fuel seepage (Mark Kettering)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: fuel seepage |
Scott,
No advice here ...but just to say ...sorry hear about the
set back ...grrr ...!!!
Graham .
.
.
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Stearns
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Hi Larry,
The seepage started fairly soon after I put a significant amount
of fuel in it. After playing with the scrap laminate and fuel it looks
like it would only take a small area to be exposed which is probably
what's happening.
Scott
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Larry David <lgdavid@roadrunner.com>
wrote:
From: Larry David <lgdavid@roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 4:38 PM
Scott, When I was having my gasohol problems, you gave me the
Jeffco 9700 idea and it solved my leakeage problem. I am surprised that
fuel is getting past the Jeffco 9700. Is it possible that somehing has
happened to the wing during your test flights? Something seems to have
changed. Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Trickel
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Scott I should have asked what the foam core is. The
fact that the carbon cloth is porus is understandable but I was always
under the belief that closed cell foam would not pass the fuel. This is
one of the reason I used it.. I would definately do a pressure check on
the wing based on your discription of seapage. Fuel is funny though.
Those fuel molecules are sneaky little bastards.
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Scott Stearns
<sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 4:02 PM
Hi Rich,
I have a laminate that is just like the wing
laminate. I poured a pool of fuel on top of it and it readily soaked
thru the laminate and through the foam core. The carbon was somewhat
low resin content and I didn't use glue sheet in the wing skins.
I also had areas in the wingtip where fuel was
seeping out of the wing skin laminate. Also some of the areas around
the screws that hold the lower wing root fairing on are pretty badly
blue stained.
Scott
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Richard Trickel
<richard_trickel@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Richard Trickel
<richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 5:27 AM
Scott
If the fuel stains are around the
aileron screws I think your problem may be fuel coming out of the cap. I
also had this problem and found that leaving the tanks a little low
solved the problem. During flight you cannot see the fuel coming out
but it does. Check your fuel caps. I doubt very much that fuel would
seep that far through the foam core. The core is closed cell so the
only way fuel could travel is along the skin/core bond. Have you tested
the tank for air leakage with a monometer. I would start there and take
it step by step.
Rich
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Scott Stearns
<sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns
<sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: KIS-List: fuel seepage
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 5:01 AM
My right wing has a lot of small places
where fuel is seeping out of the laminate. For instance some of the
screws that hold the aileron on have blue stains around them. It's
pretty clear that fuel has gotten into the wing skin sandwich panel and
is wicking through laminate and foam. The left wing doesn't have any
fuel seeps.
The top right wing skin also has a lot
of the weave showing through which might be related to the fuel getting
to the panel.
I'm a bit surprised since the fuel tanks
have two coat of the jeffco fuel sealer in them. I played around with
some sandwich panel that is the same material as the wing skin (but
without fuel sealer) and fuel soaks through the laminate and through the
foam core easily.
Anyone have any thoughts? Should I
worry or is this common?
Scott
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Message 2
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Subject: | Re: fuel seepage |
Scott and others,
I think Jeffco is great and is the way to go. But only after all pin holes and
other pores are first filled with epoxy. I think the Jeffco is too thick and
will bridge and form pin holes. I think the factory could have used resin rich
veil where there there is fuel. When I was doing the LSA in China I specified
two layers of veil in the fuel tank areas.
But since that was not done on the KIS and is still not done in many kits I would
first spread on epoxy in the areas that will become the tank. Make it very
wet and push it back, forth and into the surface slowly. Then remove the excess.
Then after it is cured, sand most of it off and repeat.
For this I would use infusion resin with low viscosity. Normal laminating resin
has is about 1000 cps and tends to bridge and form pin holes. Infusion epoxy
can be under 200 cps. Epoxy can also be slightly thinned using acetone. I
use no more than 5%. Still, start with the infusion resin and thin from there.
Of course this does not help those with closed wings. But if you were to slosh
or use vacuum to draw in resin I would use infusion resin. I do not know if
you can use epoxy over Jeffco.
Mark
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: fuel seepage |
Mark
We are about to build the wing skins for the Volare.- Don`t have any vail
here but do have film adhesive which you have seen.- Think that would wo
rk?
Rich
--- On Wed, 10/20/10, Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net> wrote:
From: Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Scott and others,
I think Jeffco is great and is the way to go.- But only after all pin hol
es and other pores are first filled with epoxy.- I think the Jeffco is to
o thick and will bridge and form pin holes.- I think the factory could ha
ve used resin rich veil where there there is fuel.- When I was doing the
LSA in China I specified two layers of veil in the fuel tank areas.
But since that was not done on the KIS and is still not done in many kits I
would first spread on epoxy in the areas that will become the tank.- Mak
e it very wet and push it back, forth and into the surface slowly.- Then
remove the excess.- Then after it is cured, sand most of it off and repea
t.
For this I would use infusion resin with low viscosity.- Normal laminatin
g resin has is about 1000 cps and tends to bridge and form pin holes.- In
fusion epoxy can be under 200 cps.- Epoxy can also be slightly thinned us
ing acetone.- I use no more than 5%.- Still, start with the infusion re
sin and thin from there.
Of course this does not help those with closed wings.- But if you were to
slosh or use vacuum to draw in resin I would use infusion resin.- I do n
ot know if you can use epoxy over Jeffco.
Mark
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: fuel seepage |
Hi Rich,
If I recall there were a few types of film adhesive. One had what looked like
some veil when you ripped it. Another seemed to have no veil. Both will help
but I think the type with veil is better.
On molds and boat parts I have been using veil and it really prevents pin holes
and reduces print through. It adds a very small amount of weight but it is well
worth it. I have not used in on aircraft parts (other than for the inside
at the fuel tanks) but I would consider it if you can find it as prepreg. We
made our own prepreg at the LSA factory. The boat parts are infusion epoxy and
do not have gel coat so can also have pin hole issues when there is no veil.
I would use dry veil with the film adhesive of any type for the fuel tanks if you
can not find prepreg.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Trickel
Sent: Oct 20, 2010 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Mark
We are about to build the wing skins for the Volare. Don`t have any vail here
but do have film adhesive which you have seen. Think that would work?
Rich
--- On Wed, 10/20/10, Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net> wrote:
From: Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Scott and others,
I think Jeffco is great and is the way to go. But only after all pin holes and
other pores are first filled with epoxy. I think the Jeffco is too thick and
will bridge and form pin holes. I think the factory could have used resin rich
veil where there there is fuel. When I was doing the LSA in China I specified
two layers of veil in the fuel tank areas.
But since that was not done on the KIS and is still not done in many kits I would
first spread on epoxy in the areas that will become the tank. Make it very
wet and push it back, forth and into the surface slowly. Then remove the excess.
Then after it is cured, sand most of it off and repeat.
For this
I would use infusion resin with low viscosity. Normal laminating resin has is
about 1000 cps and tends to bridge and form pin holes. Infusion epoxy can be
under 200 cps. Epoxy can also be slightly thinned using acetone. I use no more
than 5%. Still, start with the infusion resin and thin from there.
Of course this does not help those with closed wings. But if you were to slosh or use vacuum to draw in resin I would use infusion resin. I do not know if you can use epoxy o href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List" target=_blank>http:p://forums.matronics.com/" target=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com< &nbstp://www.matronics.com/contribution"
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