Today's Message Index:
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1. 11:31 AM - Re: fuel seepage (Larry David)
2. 04:42 PM - Re: fuel seepage (kent pyle)
3. 05:52 PM - Re: fuel seepage (F. Tim Yoder)
4. 11:13 PM - Re: fuel seepage (Scott Stearns)
5. 11:22 PM - Re: fuel seepage (Scott Stearns)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: fuel seepage |
Scott, I hear that! and would add if the fuel is gasohol, things will come
unglued like they did with my plane where the gasohol leached into the spa
r box and weakened it. Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Stearns
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
oh sorry... I haven't thought about sealing the insides of the tank
s yet. I was referring to sealing the seeps on the outside.
After playing with the fuel and composite laminates I have to think
that most composite kit planes have fuel in the core to some degree even i
f its not apparent from the outside.
Scott
--- On Thu, 10/21/10, Graham Brighton <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au> wr
ote:
From: Graham Brighton <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 1:53 PM
Err ... Scott ..so how did u get insde the tank to seal the leaks
...or ..or ....confused ....?
Graham
.
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Stearns
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 3:36 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
I pumped all the fuel to the other side and the just used
epoxy to paint over the areas. I drilled oversize some of the screw holes
and filled them with flox and redirlled the hole.
Scott
--- On Thu, 10/21/10, F. Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.co
m> wrote:
From: F. Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:30 AM
Scott,
How did you plug the seeps?
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Stearns
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 12:12 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
It's not really much a set back, but I'm concer
ned about the long term effects knowing that there is fuel in the laminate.
I think I've gotten all the fuel seepages plugged and I'll touch up the p
aint so you can't tell. I have some test samples soaking in fuel and it do
esn't seem to be having any effect.
This is just one of a number of little things I
'm fixing while the landing gear of off and being bent to the correct angle.
Scott
--- On Wed, 10/20/10, Graham Brighton <gbrighto
n@skymesh.com.au> wrote:
From: Graham Brighton <gbrighton@skymesh.com.
au>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 4:43 AM
Scott,
No advice here ...but just to
say ...sorry hear about the set back ...grrr ...!!!
Graham .
.
.
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Stearns
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Hi Larry,
The seepage started fairly soon after I put
a significant amount of fuel in it. After playing with the scrap laminate
and fuel it looks like it would only take a small area to be exposed which
is probably what's happening.
Scott
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Larry David <lgdavid@
roadrunner.com> wrote:
From: Larry David <lgdavid@roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 4:38 PM
Scott, When I was having my gasohol problem
s, you gave me the Jeffco 9700 idea and it solved my leakeage problem. I a
m surprised that fuel is getting past the Jeffco 9700. Is it possible that
somehing has happened to the wing during your test flights? Something see
ms to have changed. Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Trickel
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Scott I should have asked what the foam cor
e is. The fact that the carbon cloth is porus is understandable but I was
always under the belief that closed cell foam would not pass the fuel. Thi
s is one of the reason I used it.. I would definately do a pressure check
on the wing based on your discription of seapage. Fuel is funny though. T
hose fuel molecules are sneaky little bastards.
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Scott Stearns <sstear
ns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 4:02 PM
Hi Rich,
I have a laminate that is just like the win
g laminate. I poured a pool of fuel on top of it and it readily soaked thr
u the laminate and through the foam core. The carbon was somewhat low resi
n content and I didn't use glue sheet in the wing skins.
I also had areas in the wingtip where fuel
was seeping out of the wing skin laminate. Also some of the areas around t
he screws that hold the lower wing root fairing on are pretty badly blue st
ained.
Scott
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Richard Trickel <rich
ard_trickel@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yaho
o.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 5:27 AM
Scott
If the fuel stains are around the aileron s
crews I think your problem may be fuel coming out of the cap. I also had th
is problem and found that leaving the tanks a little low solved the problem
During flight you cannot see the fuel coming out but it does. Check you
r fuel caps. I doubt very much that fuel would seep that far through the
foam core. The core is closed cell so the only way fuel could travel is al
ong the skin/core bond. Have you tested the tank for air leakage with a mo
nometer. I would start there and take it step by step.
Rich
--- On Tue, 10/19/10, Scott Stearns <sstear
ns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: KIS-List: fuel seepage
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 5:01 AM
My right wing has a lot of small places whe
re fuel is seeping out of the laminate. For instance some of the screws th
at hold the aileron on have blue stains around them. It's pretty clear tha
t fuel has gotten into the wing skin sandwich panel and is wicking through
laminate and foam. The left wing doesn't have any fuel seeps.
The top right wing skin also has a lot of t
he weave showing through which might be related to the fuel getting to the
panel.
I'm a bit surprised since the fuel tanks ha
ve two coat of the jeffco fuel sealer in them. I played around with some s
andwich panel that is the same material as the wing skin (but without fuel
sealer) and fuel soaks through the laminate and through the foam core easil
y.
Anyone have any thoughts? Should I worry
or is this common?
Scott
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| Subject: | Re: fuel seepage |
Scott, I hope someone has the answer. I too, have had fuel seepage. I
too, have coated the interior of the wing with sealer, four coats on the
flat areas of the wing and eight coats in the corners. Kent
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Stearns
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 12:01 AM
Subject: KIS-List: fuel seepage
My right wing has a lot of small places where fuel is seeping
out of the laminate. For instance some of the screws that hold the
aileron on have blue stains around them. It's pretty clear that fuel
has gotten into the wing skin sandwich panel and is wicking through
laminate and foam. The left wing doesn't have any fuel seeps.
The top right wing skin also has a lot of the weave showing
through which might be related to the fuel getting to the panel.
I'm a bit surprised since the fuel tanks have two coat of the
jeffco fuel sealer in them. I played around with some sandwich panel
that is the same material as the wing skin (but without fuel sealer) and
fuel soaks through the laminate and through the foam core easily.
Anyone have any thoughts? Should I worry or is this common?
Scott
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
10/22/10 01:34:00
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| Subject: | Re: fuel seepage |
I don't have my Builders Manual with me, and it has been since the mid
90's that I built the wings on my TR-1, but I recall that we were to
coat the interior of the tank with a fairly thick coat of epoxy to make
the tank. It did not call for using a sealer, i.e.. Jefco. Did those of
you with seeps use the extra coats of epoxy prior to the sealer? The
extra epoxy coat is all I used.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: kent pyle
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Scott, I hope someone has the answer. I too, have had fuel seepage.
I too, have coated the interior of the wing with sealer, four coats on
the flat areas of the wing and eight coats in the corners. Kent
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Stearns
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 12:01 AM
Subject: KIS-List: fuel seepage
My right wing has a lot of small places where fuel is seeping
out of the laminate. For instance some of the screws that hold the
aileron on have blue stains around them. It's pretty clear that fuel
has gotten into the wing skin sandwich panel and is wicking through
laminate and foam. The left wing doesn't have any fuel seeps.
The top right wing skin also has a lot of the weave showing
through which might be related to the fuel getting to the panel.
I'm a bit surprised since the fuel tanks have two coat of the
jeffco fuel sealer in them. I played around with some sandwich panel
that is the same material as the wing skin (but without fuel sealer) and
fuel soaks through the laminate and through the foam core easily.
Anyone have any thoughts? Should I worry or is this common?
Scott
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- Release Date: 10/22/10 01:34:00
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: fuel seepage |
Hi Kent... It is comforting to know others have had fuel seepage.- Scott
--- On Fri, 10/22/10, kent pyle <kentpyle@iland.net> wrote:
From: kent pyle <kentpyle@iland.net>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Scott, I hope someone has the answer.- I too, have had fuel seepage.- I
too, have coated the interior of the wing with sealer, four coats on the f
lat areas of the wing and eight coats in the corners.- Kent
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Stearns
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 12:01 AM
Subject: KIS-List: fuel seepage
My right wing has a lot of small places where fuel is seeping out of the la
minate.- For instance some of the screws that hold the aileron on-have
blue stains around them.- It's pretty clear that fuel has gotten into the
wing skin sandwich panel and is wicking through laminate and foam.- The
left wing doesn't have any fuel seeps.
-
The top right wing skin also has a lot of the weave showing through which m
ight be related to the fuel getting to the panel.
-
I'm a bit surprised since the fuel tanks have two coat of the jeffco fuel s
ealer in them.- I played around with some sandwich panel that is the same
material as the wing skin (but without fuel sealer)-and fuel soaks throu
gh the laminate and through the foam core easily.
-
Anyone have any thoughts?-- Should I worry or is this common?-
-
Scott
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?KIS-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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- Release Date: 10/22/10 01:34:00
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| Subject: | Re: fuel seepage |
I used the jeffco stuff and have fuel seepage.- The jeffco stuff is an ep
oxy and is supposed to be resistant to more things then the kit epoxy.- I
think I had some fantacy of being able to use autofuel which you can never
really trust not to have ethanol.--
-
I also worked the jeffco stuff into the weave with a sqeege quite a bit bef
ore painting on two coats.- I think where it's probably getting out is wh
ere I masked off the bottom skin for bonding onto the ribs and spar and the
re are probably some small areas the adhesive didn't cover.- After pourin
g fuel onto the scrap-laminate it obvious that it would only take a small
area for the fuel to seep into the core and then start looking for a way o
ut.-
-
Scott
--- On Fri, 10/22/10, F. Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com> wrote:
From: F. Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
I don't have my Builders Manual with me, and it has been since the mid 90's
-that I built the wings on my TR-1,-but I recall that we were to coat t
he interior of the tank with a fairly thick coat of epoxy to make the tank.
It did not call for using a sealer, i.e.. Jefco. Did those of you with see
ps- use the extra coats of epoxy prior to- the sealer? The extra epoxy
coat is all I used.
Tim-
----- Original Message -----
From: kent pyle
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: fuel seepage
Scott, I hope someone has the answer.- I too, have had fuel seepage.- I
too, have coated the interior of the wing with sealer, four coats on the f
lat areas of the wing and eight coats in the corners.- Kent
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Stearns
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 12:01 AM
Subject: KIS-List: fuel seepage
My right wing has a lot of small places where fuel is seeping out of the la
minate.- For instance some of the screws that hold the aileron on-have
blue stains around them.- It's pretty clear that fuel has gotten into the
wing skin sandwich panel and is wicking through laminate and foam.- The
left wing doesn't have any fuel seeps.
-
The top right wing skin also has a lot of the weave showing through which m
ight be related to the fuel getting to the panel.
-
I'm a bit surprised since the fuel tanks have two coat of the jeffco fuel s
ealer in them.- I played around with some sandwich panel that is the same
material as the wing skin (but without fuel sealer)-and fuel soaks throu
gh the laminate and through the foam core easily.
-
Anyone have any thoughts?-- Should I worry or is this common?-
-
Scott
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