Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:20 AM - Re: landing gear material (Richard Trickel)
2. 05:54 AM - Memory Lane ()
3. 07:09 AM - Re: KIS Sold (F. Tim Yoder)
4. 07:13 AM - Re: Memory Lane (F. Tim Yoder)
5. 07:58 AM - Re: Memory Lane (ALFRED ROSA)
6. 08:59 AM - Re: Memory Lane (Jason Hills)
7. 09:52 AM - Re: landing gear material (Scott Stearns)
8. 09:54 AM - Re: KIS Sold (Scott Stearns)
9. 10:43 AM - Re: landing gear material (Richard Trickel)
10. 11:25 AM - Re: landing gear material (Scott Stearns)
11. 11:45 AM - AIRPLANE SOLD (ted scott)
12. 11:56 AM - Re: AIRPLANE SOLD (Richard Trickel)
13. 01:03 PM - Re: AIRPLANE SOLD (ALFRED ROSA)
14. 04:34 PM - Re: AIRPLANE SOLD (Galin Hernandez)
15. 04:39 PM - Re: AIRPLANE SOLD (ted scott)
16. 05:34 PM - Re: AIRPLANE SOLD (ted scott)
17. 08:36 PM - KIS TR-1 Paint Job ()
18. 08:39 PM - Re: Re: Memory Lane ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: landing gear material |
Scott
-|The gear is not 7075.- It is 2024-T3 Aged to T-6.- Better call them
quick
Rich
--- On Fri, 10/29/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: KIS-List: landing gear material
Mainly for Rich and Mark...
-
Is there any chance my landing gear is not 7075?- I sent to to grove to h
ave the camber corrected (it's 8 degrees off on each wheel) and they are go
ing to anneal and heat teat it, but they said if it's not 7075 the heat tre
ating will ruin the gear.- I told them I was 99% sure it was 7075.
-
Thanks,
Scott
--- On Thu, 10/28/10, Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
Jason
The plane was mostly built By Chuck Harrison and Steve Ruege who co own Com
posites Unlimited in Scappoose.- At the time they were long time employee
s of mine at High tech Compostes. Chuck started working for me at 17 though
-he had some experience already. We both worked together (different Dept.
) at Task Research in Santa Paula. He was my first employee and a quick lea
rner.- We are still good friends.-
The plane was built in Oxnard but test flown in Camarillo because Oxnard do
es not like test flying.- I remember it was a good flying plane but at fi
rst had some problems on the ground.- Seems to want to turn on its own..
- Really frustrated us but somehow fixed it.- It was a few years ago so
don`t rember all.- Dick kept it in at his house/airport in Florida.
Rich
Sometimes good to think about the past
--- On Wed, 10/27/10, jason@hills.org <jason@hills.org> wrote:
From: jason@hills.org <jason@hills.org>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
Yeah, my understanding is it was largely built by "factory" guys. Someone e
lse has mentioned that one of the people familiar with its build may be up
in the Scappoose, OR area as well, but I've never followed up on that.
It is still yellow nose/cowling transitioning to white tail with a small bl
ue stripe(s) on the fuse and wings. The paint is showing some aging, but it
looks good from 10 feet away. It's lived in hangers most of the last 16 ye
ars I think. I'm the 4th, and I believe longest owner now (I bought in Marc
h 2005).
A few weeks ago I flew down to KCMA (from KPAE) with it. The log book has e
arly records of flying between KOXR and KCMA for some engine work. Assuming
it was test-flown somewhere down in that area.
It's a great plane. Looks good, flies well, is super economical, especially
for longer x-country travel, which is something I really enjoy.
...Jason
Oct 27, 2010 12:41:23 PM, kis-list@matronics.com wrote:
=================
JasonYea that was built mostly by chuck and Dick was fairly short so they p
ut thick seats in that also.- I think I also flew that plane.- Is it st
ill Yellow or did you paint it.RICH
--- On Wed, 10/27/10, jason@hills.org- wrote:
From: jason@hills.org
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
My plane was Richard Warden's tail-dragger (serial number 51 I believe), bu
t the seats are fairly thick. Worth looking into! Thanks.
...Jason
Oct 27, 2010 10:13:41 AM, kis-list@matronics.com wrote:
=================
JasonI am 6-2 and have no trouble.- I am not sure but do=B4t you have Kir
by jeffersons plane.- If so I know his seate were really fay > I did the
test flight and was scrunched pretty bad.- I would redo the seats.- Fol
low the manual and thind down the cushions.- when proper the back seat bo
tton is almost none existant.. Rich
--- On Wed, 10/27/10, Jason Hills- wrote:
From: Jason Hills
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
I haven't been in a Lancair 360, but I think the 235 is almost the same pla
ne. Somewhere between 235 and 360 they changed the tail to improve stall/sp
in characteristics, but I still would avoid stalls/spins in that family of
planes...
The cockpits are likely similar. Compared to the TR-1 the Lancair 235 recli
nes people more. I think that improves comfort for tall people. Width is sn
ug like the TR-1.
My biggest problem with my plane's cockpit is anyone over 6'1" or 2" just d
oesn't fit (half my friends who would like to go flying). They have to bend
their head sideways. At 6' I have to be careful what headset I use or the
band brushes the ceiling and transmits engine vibration to me. Annoying! My
Zulu works great as long as I'm left seat (right seat is 1/2" worse to cle
ar the transponder plate and fitting below the seat).
...Jason
On Oct 27, 2010, at 5:48 AM, Mark Kettering- wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> I think Scott answered 1 and 3.- I do not know how large the Lancair co
ckpit is.- I remember seeing a web page that listed cockpit widths someti
me ago but do not remember where.- Also width does not tell the whole sto
ry.- You really need to go and sit in them yourself to try them out for s
ize and shape.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John Petrie
>> Sent: Oct 26, 2010 10:53 PM
>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> You make a very good argument for the TR-1. I have a few questions thoug
h:
>> 1. What do you mean by "...the wings tend to stay on"?
>> 2. How does the cockpit size compare to the Lancair?
>> 3. Is it really possible to fit an O-360 to the TR-1 and if so, what are
the
>> CG implications?
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: Mark Kettering
>>> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 21:47:04 -0400 (EDT)
>>> To:
>>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Scott,
>>>
>>> In many ways the RV 7 kits are the best kits in the world.- Fantastic
fit,
>>> instructions, factory support, third party support, options, resale val
ue and
>>> much more.- But they are not the best aircraft. They are little more
than a
>>> kit of 1960's designs like the Grummans or others.- Compared to a mor
e modern
>>> composite aircraft they really are not all that good of performers.-
They tend
>>> to be slower (for a given engine and stall speed), have less useful loa
d and
>>> even with being a great kit they still tend to cost a fair amount to fi
nish
>>> and take a fair amount of time.- Most of the RV 7s are over 1200 lbs
empty
>>> weight!- I think even your big engine IFR TR1 is well under 1000 lbs.
- Or was
>>> it well under 900 lbs?
>>>
>>> I know being part of the RV club has it's own draw but I think your pla
ne is a
>>> much better choice.- Yes there are problems with the TR1.- But at l
east the
>>> wings tend to stay on.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Scott Stearns
>>>> Sent: Oct 26, 2010 4:00 PM
>>>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>>>
>>>> An RV fastbuild kit hands down.- If you build the Cruiser then you'l
l have
>>>> that RV done in a year if you buy that fastbuild and FWF kits.
>>>>-
>>>> The lancair is a great airplane, but the cost is much higher for the k
it, the
>>>> engine, and the RG insurance will be a lot higher.- It is fast, but
the
>>>> landing speed is much higher too.- Unless you do a lot of long range
cross
>>>> country and don't plan on flying into any shorter strips, then I don't
think
>>>> you'll get a lot for the extra money.
>>>>-
>>>> Also, a well built RV is pretty easy to sell.- I kind of with I woul
d have
>>>> built an RV.-
>>>>-
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> --- On Mon, 10/25/10, John Petrie- wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: John Petrie
>>>> Subject: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>>> To: "KIS-List Digest Server"
>>>> Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 9:08 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> It=B9s been 14 years since I received my KIS Cruiser kit and 10 years
of
>>>> successful flying. However, the idea of the 4 seats being constantly f
illed
>>>> by my family appears to be more of a dream than a reality. As a result
, I
>>>> have just sold my plane and am now looking for a 2 place kit which I c
an
>>>> enjoy with my one son who is also passionate about aircraft. So, I was
hoping
>>>> someone on this list could give me some useful advice on which directi
on to
>>>> follow.
>>>> I am currently looking at either an RV7 or a Lancair 360. I really do
like
>>>> the speed of the Lancair, but also the simplicity of the RV.
>>>> Does anyone have any other better suggestions and advice?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in anticipation.
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>&ghref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List" target=_blank>htt
p:/ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS;- - - - - - ----Matt Dralle, L
ist Admin=====matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List" target=_blank>h
ttp://www.matronics.com/=- - - - - - ---- MATRONICS sp;
- - - - - - A href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" ta
rget=_blank>http://www=================
=====
http://f=- - - - - ---- List Contributionsp; - - -
- - - - - - - &bsp;-->
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A=0A=0A
Message 2
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10/29/2010
Hello Jason, Thanks for the flight recap and the trip down memory lane.
You wrote:
1) ".... replace the wheels, brakes and wheel pants with RV-8 parts."
So you replaced the original Matco brakes with Cleveland? Any need to modify
the bottom end of the landing gear for that conversion? I had to extensively
modify the bottom end of my KIS TR-1 main landing gear when I converted from
Matco to Grove wheels and brakes -- it was a very good move. I now have
Van's large RV wheel pants on all three gear. See attached picture.**
2) ".....It was fun as I flew into Camarillo...."
I had seven years in that area during two tours at NAS Point Mugu flying
primarily Navy jets and also flew civilian planes extensively. Initially the
airport in Camarillo was the USAF Oxnard AFB. The name of the airport in the
city of Oxnard was Ventura County Airport. This led to some confusion when a
person just said the "Oxnard airport".
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
**PS: A picture of my plane (designated as a KIS2) is in the ICAO book as
the official representative of this type.
==========================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Hills" <jason@hills.org>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 1:43 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
Rich,
Thanks for the bit of historical color on my plane! Fun to hear a bit of its
past.
The first few years I had the plane it was a bit tricky in the landing roll
out. At one of my annual condition inspections, my A&P suggested we replace
the wheels, brakes and wheel pants with RV-8 parts. I picked up about 5 kts
in speed and the plane now rolls out nice and straight/smooth on landing, it
also shortened the take-off roll a bit. We suspect the old brakes were
dragging inconsistently leading to extra drag and increased difficulty in
slowing down and staying straight.
It was fun as I flew into Camarillo to think that my plane was returning to
visit its flight test area for the first time in a long while. I barely
snuck in the evening of Oct 2 before everything fogged up. Actually I'd been
planning on landing at Oxnard. ......skip......
Message 3
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Only for a few minutes, till your butt heats it up. Also, I am in AZ.
and it doesn't get very cold. I have flown 5 hr. legs without
discomfort. In a Cirrus I take a 1" pad of blue Temper foam to make long
legs bearable. Just be sure to use something that spreads your weight to
eliminate the hot spots.
Temper foam is great for that!
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Stearns
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 11:37 PMuse
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
I thought I wanted temperfoam too, but my interior guy (who does
high end biz jets) talked me out of it. Temper foam is like a rock when
it's cold.
Scott
--- On Wed, 10/27/10, F. Timdosen't get very cold Yoder
<ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com> wrote:
From: F. Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 1:58 PM
<ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
Be sure to use Temper Foam. I used 1" blue and 1" pink to get
my seat as low as possible and it is the best seat I ride in!
Tim
----- Original Message ----- From: <jason@hills.org>
To: <kis-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>
> My plane was Richard Warden's tail-dragger (serial number 51
I believe), but the seats are fairly thick. Worth looking into! Thanks.
>
> ...Jason
>
>
> Oct 27, 2010 10:13:41 AM, kis-list@matronics.com wrote:
>
> =================
>
>
> JasonI am 6-2 and have no trouble. I am not sure but do=B4t
you have Kirby jeffersons plane. If so I know his seate were really fay
> I did the test flight and was scrunched pretty bad. I would redo the
seats. Follow the manual and thind down the cushions. when proper the
back seat botton is almost none existant.. Rich
>
> --- On Wed, 10/27/10, Jason Hills wrote:
>
> From: Jason Hills
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
> To: "kis-list@matronics.com"
> Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 3:57 PM
>
>
> I haven't been in a Lancair 360, but I think the 235 is
almost the same plane. Somewhere between 235 and 360 they changed the
tail to improve stall/spin characteristics, but I still would avoid
stalls/spins in that family of planes...
>
> The cockpits are likely similar. Compared to the TR-1 the
Lancair 235 reclines people more. I think that improves comfort for tall
people. Width is snug like the TR-1.
>
> My biggest problem with my plane's cockpit is anyone over
6'1" or 2" just doesn't fit (half my friends who would like to go
flying). They have to bend their head sideways. At 6' I have to be
careful what headset I use or the band brushes the ceiling and transmits
engine vibration to me. Annoying! My Zulu works great as long as I'm
left seat (right seat is 1/2" worse to clear the transponder plate and
fitting below the seat).
>
> ...Jason
>
>
> On Oct 27, 2010, at 5:48 AM, Mark Kettering wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I think Scott answered 1 and 3. I do not know how large
the Lancair cockpit is. I remember seeing a web page that listed
cockpit widths sometime ago but do not remember where. Also width does
not tell the whole story. You really need to go and sit in them
yourself to try them out for size and shape.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: John Petrie
>>> Sent: Oct 26, 2010 10:53 PM
>>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark,
>>>
>>> You make a very good argument for the TR-1. I have a few
questions though:
>>> 1. What do you mean by "...the wings tend to stay on"?
>>> 2. How does the cockpit size compare to the Lancair?
>>> 3. Is it really possible to fit an O-360 to the TR-1 and
if so, what are the
>>> CG implications?
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Mark Kettering
>>>> Reply-To:
>>>> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 21:47:04 -0400 (EDT)
>>>> To:
>>>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Scott,
>>>>
>>>> In many ways the RV 7 kits are the best kits in the
world. Fantastic fit,
>>>> instructions, factory support, third party support,
options, resale value and
>>>> much more. But they are not the best aircraft. They are
little more than a
>>>> kit of 1960's designs like the Grummans or others.
Compared to a more modern
>>>> composite aircraft they really are not all that good of
performers. They tend
>>>> to be slower (for a given engine and stall speed), have
less useful load and
>>>> even with being a great kit they still tend to cost a
fair amount to finish
>>>> and take a fair amount of time. Most of the RV 7s are
over 1200 lbs empty
>>>> weight! I think even your big engine IFR TR1 is well
under 1000 lbs. Or was
>>>> it well under 900 lbs?
>>>>
>>>> I know being part of the RV club has it's own draw but I
think your plane is a
>>>> much better choice. Yes there are problems with the TR1.
But at least the
>>>> wings tend to stay on.
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Scott Stearns
>>>>> Sent: Oct 26, 2010 4:00 PM
>>>>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>>>>
>>>>> An RV fastbuild kit hands down. If you build the
Cruiser then you'll have
>>>>> that RV done in a year if you buy that fastbuild and FWF
kits.
>>>>>
>>>>> The lancair is a great airplane, but the cost is much
higher for the kit, the
>>>>> engine, and the RG insurance will be a lot higher. It
is fast, but the
>>>>> landing speed is much higher too. Unless you do a lot
of long range cross
>>>>> country and don't plan on flying into any shorter
strips, then I don't think
>>>>> you'll get a lot for the extra money.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, a well built RV is pretty easy to sell. I kind of
with I would have
>>>>> built an RV.
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Mon, 10/25/10, John Petrie wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: John Petrie
>>>>> Subject: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>>>> To: "KIS-List Digest Server"
>>>>> Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 9:08 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> It=B9s been 14 years since I received my KIS Cruiser kit
and 10 years of
>>>>> successful flying. However, the idea of the 4 seats
being constantly filled
>>>>> by my family appears to be more of a dream than a
reality. As a result, I
>>>>> have just sold my plane and am now looking for a 2 place
kit which I can
>>>>> enjoy with my one son who is also passionate about
aircraft. So, I was hoping
>>>>> someone on this list could give me some useful advice on
which direction to
>>>>> follow.
>>>>> I am currently looking at either an RV7 or a Lancair
360. I really do like
>>>>> the speed of the Lancair, but also the simplicity of the
RV.
>>>>> Does anyone have any other better suggestions and
advice?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in anticipation.
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> &ghref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List"
target=_blank>http:/ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS; -Matt
Dralle, List Admin=========
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
&gs.com/Navigator?KIS-List"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigato - ;
-Maww.matronics.com/contribution"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/con==========
======
Message 4
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Still a very pretty plane "OC"
----- Original Message -----
From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 5:53 AM
Subject: KIS-List: Memory Lane
> 10/29/2010
>
> Hello Jason, Thanks for the flight recap and the trip down memory lane.
>
> You wrote:
>
> 1) ".... replace the wheels, brakes and wheel pants with RV-8 parts."
>
> So you replaced the original Matco brakes with Cleveland? Any need to
> modify
> the bottom end of the landing gear for that conversion? I had to
> extensively
> modify the bottom end of my KIS TR-1 main landing gear when I converted
> from
> Matco to Grove wheels and brakes -- it was a very good move. I now have
> Van's large RV wheel pants on all three gear. See attached picture.**
>
> 2) ".....It was fun as I flew into Camarillo...."
>
> I had seven years in that area during two tours at NAS Point Mugu flying
> primarily Navy jets and also flew civilian planes extensively. Initially
> the
> airport in Camarillo was the USAF Oxnard AFB. The name of the airport in
> the
> city of Oxnard was Ventura County Airport. This led to some confusion when
> a
> person just said the "Oxnard airport".
>
> 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort
> to
> gather and understand knowledge."
>
> **PS: A picture of my plane (designated as a KIS2) is in the ICAO book as
> the official representative of this type.
>
> ==========================================================
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jason Hills" <jason@hills.org>
> To: <kis-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 1:43 AM
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>
>
> Rich,
>
> Thanks for the bit of historical color on my plane! Fun to hear a bit of
> its
> past.
>
> The first few years I had the plane it was a bit tricky in the landing
> roll
> out. At one of my annual condition inspections, my A&P suggested we
> replace
> the wheels, brakes and wheel pants with RV-8 parts. I picked up about 5
> kts
> in speed and the plane now rolls out nice and straight/smooth on landing,
> it
> also shortened the take-off roll a bit. We suspect the old brakes were
> dragging inconsistently leading to extra drag and increased difficulty in
> slowing down and staying straight.
>
> It was fun as I flew into Camarillo to think that my plane was returning
> to
> visit its flight test area for the first time in a long while. I barely
> snuck in the evening of Oct 2 before everything fogged up. Actually I'd
> been
> planning on landing at Oxnard. ......skip......
>
Message 5
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|
OC,
Great looking plane. The paint finish doesn't seem to have that "wet" look.
Is that from lack of clearcoat"
Al
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 8:53 AM, <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
> 10/29/2010
>
> Hello Jason, Thanks for the flight recap and the trip down memory lane.
>
> You wrote:
>
> 1) ".... replace the wheels, brakes and wheel pants with RV-8 parts."
>
> So you replaced the original Matco brakes with Cleveland? Any need to
> modify the bottom end of the landing gear for that conversion? I had to
> extensively modify the bottom end of my KIS TR-1 main landing gear when I
> converted from Matco to Grove wheels and brakes -- it was a very good move.
> I now have Van's large RV wheel pants on all three gear. See attached
> picture.**
>
> 2) ".....It was fun as I flew into Camarillo...."
>
> I had seven years in that area during two tours at NAS Point Mugu flying
> primarily Navy jets and also flew civilian planes extensively. Initially the
> airport in Camarillo was the USAF Oxnard AFB. The name of the airport in the
> city of Oxnard was Ventura County Airport. This led to some confusion when a
> person just said the "Oxnard airport".
>
> 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
> gather and understand knowledge."
>
> **PS: A picture of my plane (designated as a KIS2) is in the ICAO book as
> the official representative of this type.
>
> ==========================================================
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Hills" <jason@hills.org>
> To: <kis-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 1:43 AM
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>
>
> Rich,
>
> Thanks for the bit of historical color on my plane! Fun to hear a bit of
> its past.
>
> The first few years I had the plane it was a bit tricky in the landing roll
> out. At one of my annual condition inspections, my A&P suggested we replace
> the wheels, brakes and wheel pants with RV-8 parts. I picked up about 5 kts
> in speed and the plane now rolls out nice and straight/smooth on landing, it
> also shortened the take-off roll a bit. We suspect the old brakes were
> dragging inconsistently leading to extra drag and increased difficulty in
> slowing down and staying straight.
>
> It was fun as I flew into Camarillo to think that my plane was returning to
> visit its flight test area for the first time in a long while. I barely
> snuck in the evening of Oct 2 before everything fogged up. Actually I'd been
> planning on landing at Oxnard. ......skip......
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Yes, I replaced the Matco's with Cleveland brakes. Very happy with the result.
I don't remember doing significant modification to the landing gear, but then again
it's not uncommon to be grinding here or there on new or old parts when making
custom modifications to the plane, so I may have just forgotten what we
did. Also my A&P did a bunch of the hard work on the project.
My plane is a taildragger. It's possible that changes the geometry for fitting
the brakes and wheel pants. I think we used the rv-8 axle which bolted up to the
landing gear pretty readily. I don't remember off hand how the caliper attaches.
I guess there is also a wheel pant bracket in there as well.
So if ATC asks what type of plane you are flying, do you answer KIS2, KIS, TR-1,
or? I get asked on radio all the time what my plane is. It's pretty unfamiliar
I think. A few times when the description isn't working I've fallen back to,
it's kind of like a plastic rv, which is kind of the personal joke between my
a&p and myself as we keep adapting vans parts for upgrades or repairs -- modally
because he works on tons of rv's and it's fast to get parts from them since
they are so close.
...Jason
On Oct 29, 2010, at 5:53 AM, <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
> 10/29/2010
>
> Hello Jason, Thanks for the flight recap and the trip down memory lane.
>
> You wrote:
>
> 1) ".... replace the wheels, brakes and wheel pants with RV-8 parts."
>
> So you replaced the original Matco brakes with Cleveland? Any need to modify
the bottom end of the landing gear for that conversion? I had to extensively modify
the bottom end of my KIS TR-1 main landing gear when I converted from Matco
to Grove wheels and brakes -- it was a very good move. I now have Van's large
RV wheel pants on all three gear. See attached picture.**
>
> 2) ".....It was fun as I flew into Camarillo...."
>
> I had seven years in that area during two tours at NAS Point Mugu flying primarily
Navy jets and also flew civilian planes extensively. Initially the airport
in Camarillo was the USAF Oxnard AFB. The name of the airport in the city of
Oxnard was Ventura County Airport. This led to some confusion when a person
just said the "Oxnard airport".
>
> 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather
and understand knowledge."
>
> **PS: A picture of my plane (designated as a KIS2) is in the ICAO book as the
official representative of this type.
>
> ==========================================================
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Hills" <jason@hills.org>
> To: <kis-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 1:43 AM
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>
>
> Rich,
>
> Thanks for the bit of historical color on my plane! Fun to hear a bit of its
past.
>
> The first few years I had the plane it was a bit tricky in the landing roll out.
At one of my annual condition inspections, my A&P suggested we replace the
wheels, brakes and wheel pants with RV-8 parts. I picked up about 5 kts in speed
and the plane now rolls out nice and straight/smooth on landing, it also shortened
the take-off roll a bit. We suspect the old brakes were dragging inconsistently
leading to extra drag and increased difficulty in slowing down and
staying straight.
>
> It was fun as I flew into Camarillo to think that my plane was returning to visit
its flight test area for the first time in a long while. I barely snuck in
the evening of Oct 2 before everything fogged up. Actually I'd been planning
on landing at Oxnard. ......skip......
> <100_0311.jpg>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: landing gear material |
Okay.- I called them and they pulled it out of the heat treat batch.-
-
They don't want to bend it in the T6 condition that it's in and I would hav
e to pay for a whole separate-heat treat-run (instead of being part of
thier normal batch)-to get it bent correctly.- It would be close to $10
00 to have the gear fixed.-
-
They also said the 2024 T6 is not strong enough for the wieght of the airpl
ane and they basically never use it.- They also said the gear is already
bowed and the bowing is not symetric which leads to the conclusion that it
is marginal and already bending.- I haven't had any particularly hard lan
dings either.-
-
They want about $1500 for a new gear made of 7075 T6 which is really about
$1200 for me since I was already going to pay them $300 to bend it and heat
treat it.-
-
What's another $1200??- <sarcasm>I glad I'm a rich airline pilot... </sar
casm>
-
Scott
-
--- On Fri, 10/29/10, Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: landing gear material
Scott
-|The gear is not 7075.- It is 2024-T3 Aged to T-6.- Better call them
quick
Rich
--- On Fri, 10/29/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: KIS-List: landing gear material
Mainly for Rich and Mark...
-
Is there any chance my landing gear is not 7075?- I sent to to grove to h
ave the camber corrected (it's 8 degrees off on each wheel) and they are go
ing to anneal and heat teat it, but they said if it's not 7075 the heat tre
ating will ruin the gear.- I told them I was 99% sure it was 7075.
-
Thanks,
Scott
--- On Thu, 10/28/10, Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
Jason
The plane was mostly built By Chuck Harrison and Steve Ruege who co own Com
posites Unlimited in Scappoose.- At the time they were long time employee
s of mine at High tech Compostes. Chuck started working for me at 17 though
-he had some experience already. We both worked together (different Dept.
) at Task Research in Santa Paula. He was my first employee and a quick lea
rner.- We are still good friends.-
The plane was built in Oxnard but test flown in Camarillo because Oxnard do
es not like test flying.- I remember it was a good flying plane but at fi
rst had some problems on the ground.- Seems to want to turn on its own..
- Really frustrated us but somehow fixed it.- It was a few years ago so
don`t rember all.- Dick kept it in at his house/airport in Florida.
Rich
Sometimes good to think about the past
--- On Wed, 10/27/10, jason@hills.org <jason@hills.org> wrote:
From: jason@hills.org <jason@hills.org>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
Yeah, my understanding is it was largely built by "factory" guys. Someone e
lse has mentioned that one of the people familiar with its build may be up
in the Scappoose, OR area as well, but I've never followed up on that.
It is still yellow nose/cowling transitioning to white tail with a small bl
ue stripe(s) on the fuse and wings. The paint is showing some aging, but it
looks good from 10 feet away. It's lived in hangers most of the last 16 ye
ars I think. I'm the 4th, and I believe longest owner now (I bought in Marc
h 2005).
A few weeks ago I flew down to KCMA (from KPAE) with it. The log book has e
arly records of flying between KOXR and KCMA for some engine work. Assuming
it was test-flown somewhere down in that area.
It's a great plane. Looks good, flies well, is super economical, especially
for longer x-country travel, which is something I really enjoy.
...Jason
Oct 27, 2010 12:41:23 PM, kis-list@matronics.com wrote:
=================
JasonYea that was built mostly by chuck and Dick was fairly short so they p
ut thick seats in that also.- I think I also flew that plane.- Is it st
ill Yellow or did you paint it.RICH
--- On Wed, 10/27/10, jason@hills.org- wrote:
From: jason@hills.org
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
My plane was Richard Warden's tail-dragger (serial number 51 I believe), bu
t the seats are fairly thick. Worth looking into! Thanks.
...Jason
Oct 27, 2010 10:13:41 AM, kis-list@matronics.com wrote:
=================
JasonI am 6-2 and have no trouble.- I am not sure but do=B4t you have Kir
by jeffersons plane.- If so I know his seate were really fay > I did the
test flight and was scrunched pretty bad.- I would redo the seats.- Fol
low the manual and thind down the cushions.- when proper the back seat bo
tton is almost none existant.. Rich
--- On Wed, 10/27/10, Jason Hills- wrote:
From: Jason Hills
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
I haven't been in a Lancair 360, but I think the 235 is almost the same pla
ne. Somewhere between 235 and 360 they changed the tail to improve stall/sp
in characteristics, but I still would avoid stalls/spins in that family of
planes...
The cockpits are likely similar. Compared to the TR-1 the Lancair 235 recli
nes people more. I think that improves comfort for tall people. Width is sn
ug like the TR-1.
My biggest problem with my plane's cockpit is anyone over 6'1" or 2" just d
oesn't fit (half my friends who would like to go flying). They have to bend
their head sideways. At 6' I have to be careful what headset I use or the
band brushes the ceiling and transmits engine vibration to me. Annoying! My
Zulu works great as long as I'm left seat (right seat is 1/2" worse to cle
ar the transponder plate and fitting below the seat).
...Jason
On Oct 27, 2010, at 5:48 AM, Mark Kettering- wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> I think Scott answered 1 and 3.- I do not know how large the Lancair co
ckpit is.- I remember seeing a web page that listed cockpit widths someti
me ago but do not remember where.- Also width does not tell the whole sto
ry.- You really need to go and sit in them yourself to try them out for s
ize and shape.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John Petrie
>> Sent: Oct 26, 2010 10:53 PM
>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> You make a very good argument for the TR-1. I have a few questions thoug
h:
>> 1. What do you mean by "...the wings tend to stay on"?
>> 2. How does the cockpit size compare to the Lancair?
>> 3. Is it really possible to fit an O-360 to the TR-1 and if so, what are
the
>> CG implications?
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: Mark Kettering
>>> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 21:47:04 -0400 (EDT)
>>> To:
>>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Scott,
>>>
>>> In many ways the RV 7 kits are the best kits in the world.- Fantastic
fit,
>>> instructions, factory support, third party support, options, resale val
ue and
>>> much more.- But they are not the best aircraft. They are little more
than a
>>> kit of 1960's designs like the Grummans or others.- Compared to a mor
e modern
>>> composite aircraft they really are not all that good of performers.-
They tend
>>> to be slower (for a given engine and stall speed), have less useful loa
d and
>>> even with being a great kit they still tend to cost a fair amount to fi
nish
>>> and take a fair amount of time.- Most of the RV 7s are over 1200 lbs
empty
>>> weight!- I think even your big engine IFR TR1 is well under 1000 lbs.
- Or was
>>> it well under 900 lbs?
>>>
>>> I know being part of the RV club has it's own draw but I think your pla
ne is a
>>> much better choice.- Yes there are problems with the TR1.- But at l
east the
>>> wings tend to stay on.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Scott Stearns
>>>> Sent: Oct 26, 2010 4:00 PM
>>>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>>>
>>>> An RV fastbuild kit hands down.- If you build the Cruiser then you'l
l have
>>>> that RV done in a year if you buy that fastbuild and FWF kits.
>>>>-
>>>> The lancair is a great airplane, but the cost is much higher for the k
it, the
>>>> engine, and the RG insurance will be a lot higher.- It is fast, but
the
>>>> landing speed is much higher too.- Unless you do a lot of long range
cross
>>>> country and don't plan on flying into any shorter strips, then I don't
think
>>>> you'll get a lot for the extra money.
>>>>-
>>>> Also, a well built RV is pretty easy to sell.- I kind of with I woul
d have
>>>> built an RV.-
>>>>-
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> --- On Mon, 10/25/10, John Petrie- wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: John Petrie
>>>> Subject: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>>> To: "KIS-List Digest Server"
>>>> Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 9:08 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> It=B9s been 14 years since I received my KIS Cruiser kit and 10 years
of
>>>> successful flying. However, the idea of the 4 seats being constantly f
illed
>>>> by my family appears to be more of a dream than a reality. As a result
, I
>>>> have just sold my plane and am now looking for a 2 place kit which I c
an
>>>> enjoy with my one son who is also passionate about aircraft. So, I was
hoping
>>>> someone on this list could give me some useful advice on which directi
on to
>>>> follow.
>>>> I am currently looking at either an RV7 or a Lancair 360. I really do
like
>>>> the speed of the Lancair, but also the simplicity of the RV.
>>>> Does anyone have any other better suggestions and advice?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in anticipation.
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>&ghref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List" target=_blank>htt
p:/ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS;- - - - - - ----Matt Dralle, L
ist Admin=====matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List" target=_blank>h
ttp://www.matronics.com/=- - - - - - ---- MATRONICS sp;
- - - - - - A href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" ta
rget=_blank>http://www=================
=====
http://f=- - - - - ---- List Contributionsp; - - -
- - - - - - - &bsp;-->
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A=0A=0A
Message 8
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Temper foam is great once it's warmed up.- I used the same kind of foam t
hey use in the biz jets and it's really comfortable.- I think the cushion
design has a lot to do with it too.
-
Scott
--- On Fri, 10/29/10, F. Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com> wrote:
From: F. Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
Only for a few minutes, till your butt heats it up. Also, I am in AZ. and i
t doesn't get very cold. I have flown 5 hr. legs without discomfort. In a C
irrus I take a 1" pad of blue Temper foam to make long legs bearable. Just
be sure to use something that spreads-your weight to eliminate the hot sp
ots.
Temper foam is great for that!
Tim-
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Stearns
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 11:37 PMuse
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
I thought I wanted temperfoam too, but my interior guy (who does high end b
iz jets) talked me out of it.- Temper foam is like a rock when it's cold.
-
-
Scott
--- On Wed, 10/27/10, F. Timdosen't get very cold-Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbui
lt.com> wrote:
From: F. Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
Be sure to use Temper Foam. I used 1" blue and 1" pink to get my seat as lo
w as possible and it is the best seat I ride in!
Tim
----- Original Message ----- From: <jason@hills.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>
> My plane was Richard Warden's tail-dragger (serial number 51 I believe),
but the seats are fairly thick. Worth looking into! Thanks.
>
> ...Jason
>
>
> Oct 27, 2010 10:13:41 AM, kis-list@matronics.com wrote:
>
> =================
>
>
> JasonI am 6-2 and have no trouble.- I am not sure but do=B4t you have K
irby jeffersons plane.- If so I know his seate were really fay > I did th
e test flight and was scrunched pretty bad.- I would redo the seats.- F
ollow the manual and thind down the cushions.- when proper the back seat
botton is almost none existant.. Rich
>
> --- On Wed, 10/27/10, Jason Hills- wrote:
>
> From: Jason Hills
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
> To: "kis-list@matronics.com"
> Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 3:57 PM
>
>
> I haven't been in a Lancair 360, but I think the 235 is almost the same p
lane. Somewhere between 235 and 360 they changed the tail to improve stall/
spin characteristics, but I still would avoid stalls/spins in that family o
f planes...
>
> The cockpits are likely similar. Compared to the TR-1 the Lancair 235 rec
lines people more. I think that improves comfort for tall people. Width is
snug like the TR-1.
>
> My biggest problem with my plane's cockpit is anyone over 6'1" or 2" just
doesn't fit (half my friends who would like to go flying). They have to be
nd their head sideways. At 6' I have to be careful what headset I use or th
e band brushes the ceiling and transmits engine vibration to me. Annoying!
My Zulu works great as long as I'm left seat (right seat is 1/2" worse to c
lear the transponder plate and fitting below the seat).
>
> ...Jason
>
>
> On Oct 27, 2010, at 5:48 AM, Mark Kettering- wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I think Scott answered 1 and 3.- I do not know how large the Lancair c
ockpit is.- I remember seeing a web page that listed cockpit widths somet
ime ago but do not remember where.- Also width does not tell the whole st
ory.- You really need to go and sit in them yourself to try them out for
size and shape.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: John Petrie
>>> Sent: Oct 26, 2010 10:53 PM
>>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark,
>>>
>>> You make a very good argument for the TR-1. I have a few questions thou
gh:
>>> 1. What do you mean by "...the wings tend to stay on"?
>>> 2. How does the cockpit size compare to the Lancair?
>>> 3. Is it really possible to fit an O-360 to the TR-1 and if so, what ar
e the
>>> CG implications?
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Mark Kettering
>>>> Reply-To:
>>>> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 21:47:04 -0400 (EDT)
>>>> To:
>>>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Scott,
>>>>
>>>> In many ways the RV 7 kits are the best kits in the world.- Fantasti
c fit,
>>>> instructions, factory support, third party support, options, resale va
lue and
>>>> much more.- But they are not the best aircraft. They are little more
than a
>>>> kit of 1960's designs like the Grummans or others.- Compared to a mo
re modern
>>>> composite aircraft they really are not all that good of performers. Th
ey tend
>>>> to be slower (for a given engine and stall speed), have less useful lo
ad and
>>>> even with being a great kit they still tend to cost a fair amount to f
inish
>>>> and take a fair amount of time.- Most of the RV 7s are over 1200 lbs
empty
>>>> weight!- I think even your big engine IFR TR1 is well under 1000 lbs
. Or was
>>>> it well under 900 lbs?
>>>>
>>>> I know being part of the RV club has it's own draw but I think your pl
ane is a
>>>> much better choice.- Yes there are problems with the TR1.- But at
least the
>>>> wings tend to stay on.
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Scott Stearns
>>>>> Sent: Oct 26, 2010 4:00 PM
>>>>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>>>>
>>>>> An RV fastbuild kit hands down.- If you build the Cruiser then you'
ll have
>>>>> that RV done in a year if you buy that fastbuild and FWF kits.
>>>>>
>>>>> The lancair is a great airplane, but the cost is much higher for the
kit, the
>>>>> engine, and the RG insurance will be a lot higher.- It is fast, but
the
>>>>> landing speed is much higher too.- Unless you do a lot of long rang
e cross
>>>>> country and don't plan on flying into any shorter strips, then I don'
t think
>>>>> you'll get a lot for the extra money.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, a well built RV is pretty easy to sell.- I kind of with I wou
ld have
>>>>> built an RV.
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Mon, 10/25/10, John Petrie- wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: John Petrie
>>>>> Subject: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>>>> To: "KIS-List Digest Server"
>>>>> Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 9:08 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> It=B9s been 14 years since I received my KIS Cruiser kit and 10 years
of
>>>>> successful flying. However, the idea of the 4 seats being constantly
filled
>>>>> by my family appears to be more of a dream than a reality. As a resul
t, I
>>>>> have just sold my plane and am now looking for a 2 place kit which I
can
>>>>> enjoy with my one son who is also passionate about aircraft. So, I wa
s hoping
>>>>> someone on this list could give me some useful advice on which direct
ion to
>>>>> follow.
>>>>> I am currently looking at either an RV7 or a Lancair 360. I really do
like
>>>>> the speed of the Lancair, but also the simplicity of the RV.
>>>>> Does anyone have any other better suggestions and advice?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in anticipation.
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> &ghref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List" target=_blank>h
ttp:/ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS;- - - - - - ----Matt Dralle,
List Admin=========
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
&gs.com/Navigator?KIS-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
to - - - - - ---- ; - - - - - - - - - -
-Maww.matronics.com/contribution" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com
/con================
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?KIS-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: landing gear material |
Scott
I remember that Vance did the Calcs and we also did some drop test with goo
d results.- This was pretty early on.- Alos rember that Vance always ta
lked about the scrupping action of the wheel.- Didn=B4t quite totally und
erstand but thought it was the side movement friction as the gear bowed out
word.- I remember we droped the gear on plates that were oiled though.-
I actually don=B4t know of any gear bending except for Galiens TR-4 on a r
eal bad landing. Took out the nosegear and spred the mains beyond use.- P
rop strike etc.
Rich
--- On Fri, 10/29/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: landing gear material
Okay.- I called them and they pulled it out of the heat treat batch.-
-
They don't want to bend it in the T6 condition that it's in and I would hav
e to pay for a whole separate-heat treat-run (instead of being part of
thier normal batch)-to get it bent correctly.- It would be close to $10
00 to have the gear fixed.-
-
They also said the 2024 T6 is not strong enough for the wieght of the airpl
ane and they basically never use it.- They also said the gear is already
bowed and the bowing is not symetric which leads to the conclusion that it
is marginal and already bending.- I haven't had any particularly hard lan
dings either.-
-
They want about $1500 for a new gear made of 7075 T6 which is really about
$1200 for me since I was already going to pay them $300 to bend it and heat
treat it.-
-
What's another $1200??- <sarcasm>I glad I'm a rich airline pilot... </sar
casm>
-
Scott
-
--- On Fri, 10/29/10, Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: landing gear material
Scott
-|The gear is not 7075.- It is 2024-T3 Aged to T-6.- Better call them
quick
Rich
--- On Fri, 10/29/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: KIS-List: landing gear material
Mainly for Rich and Mark...
-
Is there any chance my landing gear is not 7075?- I sent to to grove to h
ave the camber corrected (it's 8 degrees off on each wheel) and they are go
ing to anneal and heat teat it, but they said if it's not 7075 the heat tre
ating will ruin the gear.- I told them I was 99% sure it was 7075.
-
Thanks,
Scott
--- On Thu, 10/28/10, Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
Jason
The plane was mostly built By Chuck Harrison and Steve Ruege who co own Com
posites Unlimited in Scappoose.- At the time they were long time employee
s of mine at High tech Compostes. Chuck started working for me at 17 though
-he had some experience already. We both worked together (different Dept.
) at Task Research in Santa Paula. He was my first employee and a quick lea
rner.- We are still good friends.-
The plane was built in Oxnard but test flown in Camarillo because Oxnard do
es not like test flying.- I remember it was a good flying plane but at fi
rst had some problems on the ground.- Seems to want to turn on its own..
- Really frustrated us but somehow fixed it.- It was a few years ago so
don`t rember all.- Dick kept it in at his house/airport in Florida.
Rich
Sometimes good to think about the past
--- On Wed, 10/27/10, jason@hills.org <jason@hills.org> wrote:
From: jason@hills.org <jason@hills.org>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
Yeah, my understanding is it was largely built by "factory" guys. Someone e
lse has mentioned that one of the people familiar with its build may be up
in the Scappoose, OR area as well, but I've never followed up on that.
It is still yellow nose/cowling transitioning to white tail with a small bl
ue stripe(s) on the fuse and wings. The paint is showing some aging, but it
looks good from 10 feet away. It's lived in hangers most of the last 16 ye
ars I think. I'm the 4th, and I believe longest owner now (I bought in Marc
h 2005).
A few weeks ago I flew down to KCMA (from KPAE) with it. The log book has e
arly records of flying between KOXR and KCMA for some engine work. Assuming
it was test-flown somewhere down in that area.
It's a great plane. Looks good, flies well, is super economical, especially
for longer x-country travel, which is something I really enjoy.
...Jason
Oct 27, 2010 12:41:23 PM, kis-list@matronics.com wrote:
=================
JasonYea that was built mostly by chuck and Dick was fairly short so they p
ut thick seats in that also.- I think I also flew that plane.- Is it st
ill Yellow or did you paint it.RICH
--- On Wed, 10/27/10, jason@hills.org- wrote:
From: jason@hills.org
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
My plane was Richard Warden's tail-dragger (serial number 51 I believe), bu
t the seats are fairly thick. Worth looking into! Thanks.
...Jason
Oct 27, 2010 10:13:41 AM, kis-list@matronics.com wrote:
=================
JasonI am 6-2 and have no trouble.- I am not sure but do=B4t you have Kir
by jeffersons plane.- If so I know his seate were really fay > I did the
test flight and was scrunched pretty bad.- I would redo the seats.- Fol
low the manual and thind down the cushions.- when proper the back seat bo
tton is almost none existant.. Rich
--- On Wed, 10/27/10, Jason Hills- wrote:
From: Jason Hills
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
I haven't been in a Lancair 360, but I think the 235 is almost the same pla
ne. Somewhere between 235 and 360 they changed the tail to improve stall/sp
in characteristics, but I still would avoid stalls/spins in that family of
planes...
The cockpits are likely similar. Compared to the TR-1 the Lancair 235 recli
nes people more. I think that improves comfort for tall people. Width is sn
ug like the TR-1.
My biggest problem with my plane's cockpit is anyone over 6'1" or 2" just d
oesn't fit (half my friends who would like to go flying). They have to bend
their head sideways. At 6' I have to be careful what headset I use or the
band brushes the ceiling and transmits engine vibration to me. Annoying! My
Zulu works great as long as I'm left seat (right seat is 1/2" worse to cle
ar the transponder plate and fitting below the seat).
...Jason
On Oct 27, 2010, at 5:48 AM, Mark Kettering- wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> I think Scott answered 1 and 3.- I do not know how large the Lancair co
ckpit is.- I remember seeing a web page that listed cockpit widths someti
me ago but do not remember where.- Also width does not tell the whole sto
ry.- You really need to go and sit in them yourself to try them out for s
ize and shape.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John Petrie
>> Sent: Oct 26, 2010 10:53 PM
>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> You make a very good argument for the TR-1. I have a few questions thoug
h:
>> 1. What do you mean by "...the wings tend to stay on"?
>> 2. How does the cockpit size compare to the Lancair?
>> 3. Is it really possible to fit an O-360 to the TR-1 and if so, what are
the
>> CG implications?
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: Mark Kettering
>>> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 21:47:04 -0400 (EDT)
>>> To:
>>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Scott,
>>>
>>> In many ways the RV 7 kits are the best kits in the world.- Fantastic
fit,
>>> instructions, factory support, third party support, options, resale val
ue and
>>> much more.- But they are not the best aircraft. They are little more
than a
>>> kit of 1960's designs like the Grummans or others.- Compared to a mor
e modern
>>> composite aircraft they really are not all that good of performers.-
They tend
>>> to be slower (for a given engine and stall speed), have less useful loa
d and
>>> even with being a great kit they still tend to cost a fair amount to fi
nish
>>> and take a fair amount of time.- Most of the RV 7s are over 1200 lbs
empty
>>> weight!- I think even your big engine IFR TR1 is well under 1000 lbs.
- Or was
>>> it well under 900 lbs?
>>>
>>> I know being part of the RV club has it's own draw but I think your pla
ne is a
>>> much better choice.- Yes there are problems with the TR1.- But at l
east the
>>> wings tend to stay on.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Scott Stearns
>>>> Sent: Oct 26, 2010 4:00 PM
>>>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>>>
>>>> An RV fastbuild kit hands down.- If you build the Cruiser then you'l
l have
>>>> that RV done in a year if you buy that fastbuild and FWF kits.
>>>>-
>>>> The lancair is a great airplane, but the cost is much higher for the k
it, the
>>>> engine, and the RG insurance will be a lot higher.- It is fast, but
the
>>>> landing speed is much higher too.- Unless you do a lot of long range
cross
>>>> country and don't plan on flying into any shorter strips, then I don't
think
>>>> you'll get a lot for the extra money.
>>>>-
>>>> Also, a well built RV is pretty easy to sell.- I kind of with I woul
d have
>>>> built an RV.-
>>>>-
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> --- On Mon, 10/25/10, John Petrie- wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: John Petrie
>>>> Subject: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>>> To: "KIS-List Digest Server"
>>>> Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 9:08 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> It=B9s been 14 years since I received my KIS Cruiser kit and 10 years
of
>>>> successful flying. However, the idea of the 4 seats being constantly f
illed
>>>> by my family appears to be more of a dream than a reality. As a result
, I
>>>> have just sold my plane and am now looking for a 2 place kit which I c
an
>>>> enjoy with my one son who is also passionate about aircraft. So, I was
hoping
>>>> someone on this list could give me some useful advice on which directi
on to
>>>> follow.
>>>> I am currently looking at either an RV7 or a Lancair 360. I really do
like
>>>> the speed of the Lancair, but also the simplicity of the RV.
>>>> Does anyone have any other better suggestions and advice?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in anticipation.
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>&ghref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List" target=_blank>htt
p:/ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS;- - - - - - ----Matt Dralle, L
ist Admin=====matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List" target=_blank>h
ttp://www.matronics.com/=- - - - - - ---- MATRONICS sp;
- - - - - - A href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" ta
rget=_blank>http://www=================
=====
http://f=- - - - - ---- List Contributionsp; - - -
- - - - - - - &bsp;-->
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A=0A=0A
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: landing gear material |
Hi Rich,
-
Mark's airplane had a bent gear from a hard landing.- The taller gear on
the taildragger might make it worse if the wheels are further apart.- Are
the wheels further apart on the taildragger?-
-
>From the calculations the gear I just did-the 2024 T6 gear is-good for
maybe a 2 G landing at best without bending (assuming the wing is giving 2/
3 of a G at touchdown, which is the standard assumption).- Normally landi
ng gear is designed to 4 Gs (or 3.33 with the wing lift assumption).--Y
ou would get something from the tire-srubbing since it's opposing the ben
ding from the impact load, but I'm not sure how much since the tire would f
lex pretty easily.- I think Mark has Pazmany's book, maybe he could look
it up if he has a minute and knows where it is.- If you came down hard on
one side it looks like-the 2024 gear-would bend pretty easily.
-
It would be interesting to take a stright edge to all the KIS landing gear
and see how many are still straight.- I bet most-are bowed to some degr
ee.-
-
I don't have the exact dimensions of the tire placement, but I'm assuming i
ts 18 inches out from the fuselage attach point.- Does that sound right?
- I think it might be further out than that.-
-
With7075 T6 the gear would still not meet the 4G load case without bending,
but it will come pretty close.-
-
I've pretty much decided to-buy a new 7075 gear.- I thought once I had
it flying the hole in the air I throw money into would close down at least
a little.- Oh well.- At least it's not a boat.
-
Scott
--- On Fri, 10/29/10, Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: landing gear material
Scott
I remember that Vance did the Calcs and we also did some drop test with goo
d results.- This was pretty early on.- Alos rember that Vance always ta
lked about the scrupping action of the wheel.- Didn=B4t quite totally und
erstand but thought it was the side movement friction as the gear bowed out
word.- I remember we droped the gear on plates that were oiled though.-
I actually don=B4t know of any gear bending except for Galiens TR-4 on a r
eal bad landing. Took out the nosegear and spred the mains beyond use.- P
rop strike etc.
Rich
--- On Fri, 10/29/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: landing gear material
Okay.- I called them and they pulled it out of the heat treat batch.-
-
They don't want to bend it in the T6 condition that it's in and I would hav
e to pay for a whole separate-heat treat-run (instead of being part of
thier normal batch)-to get it bent correctly.- It would be close to $10
00 to have the gear fixed.-
-
They also said the 2024 T6 is not strong enough for the wieght of the airpl
ane and they basically never use it.- They also said the gear is already
bowed and the bowing is not symetric which leads to the conclusion that it
is marginal and already bending.- I haven't had any particularly hard lan
dings either.-
-
They want about $1500 for a new gear made of 7075 T6 which is really about
$1200 for me since I was already going to pay them $300 to bend it and heat
treat it.-
-
What's another $1200??- <sarcasm>I glad I'm a rich airline pilot... </sar
casm>
-
Scott
-
--- On Fri, 10/29/10, Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: landing gear material
Scott
-|The gear is not 7075.- It is 2024-T3 Aged to T-6.- Better call them
quick
Rich
--- On Fri, 10/29/10, Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: KIS-List: landing gear material
Mainly for Rich and Mark...
-
Is there any chance my landing gear is not 7075?- I sent to to grove to h
ave the camber corrected (it's 8 degrees off on each wheel) and they are go
ing to anneal and heat teat it, but they said if it's not 7075 the heat tre
ating will ruin the gear.- I told them I was 99% sure it was 7075.
-
Thanks,
Scott
--- On Thu, 10/28/10, Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
Jason
The plane was mostly built By Chuck Harrison and Steve Ruege who co own Com
posites Unlimited in Scappoose.- At the time they were long time employee
s of mine at High tech Compostes. Chuck started working for me at 17 though
-he had some experience already. We both worked together (different Dept.
) at Task Research in Santa Paula. He was my first employee and a quick lea
rner.- We are still good friends.-
The plane was built in Oxnard but test flown in Camarillo because Oxnard do
es not like test flying.- I remember it was a good flying plane but at fi
rst had some problems on the ground.- Seems to want to turn on its own..
- Really frustrated us but somehow fixed it.- It was a few years ago so
don`t rember all.- Dick kept it in at his house/airport in Florida.
Rich
Sometimes good to think about the past
--- On Wed, 10/27/10, jason@hills.org <jason@hills.org> wrote:
From: jason@hills.org <jason@hills.org>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
Yeah, my understanding is it was largely built by "factory" guys. Someone e
lse has mentioned that one of the people familiar with its build may be up
in the Scappoose, OR area as well, but I've never followed up on that.
It is still yellow nose/cowling transitioning to white tail with a small bl
ue stripe(s) on the fuse and wings. The paint is showing some aging, but it
looks good from 10 feet away. It's lived in hangers most of the last 16 ye
ars I think. I'm the 4th, and I believe longest owner now (I bought in Marc
h 2005).
A few weeks ago I flew down to KCMA (from KPAE) with it. The log book has e
arly records of flying between KOXR and KCMA for some engine work. Assuming
it was test-flown somewhere down in that area.
It's a great plane. Looks good, flies well, is super economical, especially
for longer x-country travel, which is something I really enjoy.
...Jason
Oct 27, 2010 12:41:23 PM, kis-list@matronics.com wrote:
=================
JasonYea that was built mostly by chuck and Dick was fairly short so they p
ut thick seats in that also.- I think I also flew that plane.- Is it st
ill Yellow or did you paint it.RICH
--- On Wed, 10/27/10, jason@hills.org- wrote:
From: jason@hills.org
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
My plane was Richard Warden's tail-dragger (serial number 51 I believe), bu
t the seats are fairly thick. Worth looking into! Thanks.
...Jason
Oct 27, 2010 10:13:41 AM, kis-list@matronics.com wrote:
=================
JasonI am 6-2 and have no trouble.- I am not sure but do=B4t you have Kir
by jeffersons plane.- If so I know his seate were really fay > I did the
test flight and was scrunched pretty bad.- I would redo the seats.- Fol
low the manual and thind down the cushions.- when proper the back seat bo
tton is almost none existant.. Rich
--- On Wed, 10/27/10, Jason Hills- wrote:
From: Jason Hills
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
I haven't been in a Lancair 360, but I think the 235 is almost the same pla
ne. Somewhere between 235 and 360 they changed the tail to improve stall/sp
in characteristics, but I still would avoid stalls/spins in that family of
planes...
The cockpits are likely similar. Compared to the TR-1 the Lancair 235 recli
nes people more. I think that improves comfort for tall people. Width is sn
ug like the TR-1.
My biggest problem with my plane's cockpit is anyone over 6'1" or 2" just d
oesn't fit (half my friends who would like to go flying). They have to bend
their head sideways. At 6' I have to be careful what headset I use or the
band brushes the ceiling and transmits engine vibration to me. Annoying! My
Zulu works great as long as I'm left seat (right seat is 1/2" worse to cle
ar the transponder plate and fitting below the seat).
...Jason
On Oct 27, 2010, at 5:48 AM, Mark Kettering- wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> I think Scott answered 1 and 3.- I do not know how large the Lancair co
ckpit is.- I remember seeing a web page that listed cockpit widths someti
me ago but do not remember where.- Also width does not tell the whole sto
ry.- You really need to go and sit in them yourself to try them out for s
ize and shape.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John Petrie
>> Sent: Oct 26, 2010 10:53 PM
>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> You make a very good argument for the TR-1. I have a few questions thoug
h:
>> 1. What do you mean by "...the wings tend to stay on"?
>> 2. How does the cockpit size compare to the Lancair?
>> 3. Is it really possible to fit an O-360 to the TR-1 and if so, what are
the
>> CG implications?
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: Mark Kettering
>>> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 21:47:04 -0400 (EDT)
>>> To:
>>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Scott,
>>>
>>> In many ways the RV 7 kits are the best kits in the world.- Fantastic
fit,
>>> instructions, factory support, third party support, options, resale val
ue and
>>> much more.- But they are not the best aircraft. They are little more
than a
>>> kit of 1960's designs like the Grummans or others.- Compared to a mor
e modern
>>> composite aircraft they really are not all that good of performers.-
They tend
>>> to be slower (for a given engine and stall speed), have less useful loa
d and
>>> even with being a great kit they still tend to cost a fair amount to fi
nish
>>> and take a fair amount of time.- Most of the RV 7s are over 1200 lbs
empty
>>> weight!- I think even your big engine IFR TR1 is well under 1000 lbs.
- Or was
>>> it well under 900 lbs?
>>>
>>> I know being part of the RV club has it's own draw but I think your pla
ne is a
>>> much better choice.- Yes there are problems with the TR1.- But at l
east the
>>> wings tend to stay on.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Scott Stearns
>>>> Sent: Oct 26, 2010 4:00 PM
>>>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>>>
>>>> An RV fastbuild kit hands down.- If you build the Cruiser then you'l
l have
>>>> that RV done in a year if you buy that fastbuild and FWF kits.
>>>>-
>>>> The lancair is a great airplane, but the cost is much higher for the k
it, the
>>>> engine, and the RG insurance will be a lot higher.- It is fast, but
the
>>>> landing speed is much higher too.- Unless you do a lot of long range
cross
>>>> country and don't plan on flying into any shorter strips, then I don't
think
>>>> you'll get a lot for the extra money.
>>>>-
>>>> Also, a well built RV is pretty easy to sell.- I kind of with I woul
d have
>>>> built an RV.-
>>>>-
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> --- On Mon, 10/25/10, John Petrie- wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: John Petrie
>>>> Subject: KIS-List: KIS Sold
>>>> To: "KIS-List Digest Server"
>>>> Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 9:08 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> It=B9s been 14 years since I received my KIS Cruiser kit and 10 years
of
>>>> successful flying. However, the idea of the 4 seats being constantly f
illed
>>>> by my family appears to be more of a dream than a reality. As a result
, I
>>>> have just sold my plane and am now looking for a 2 place kit which I c
an
>>>> enjoy with my one son who is also passionate about aircraft. So, I was
hoping
>>>> someone on this list could give me some useful advice on which directi
on to
>>>> follow.
>>>> I am currently looking at either an RV7 or a Lancair 360. I really do
like
>>>> the speed of the Lancair, but also the simplicity of the RV.
>>>> Does anyone have any other better suggestions and advice?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in anticipation.
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>&ghref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List" target=_blank>htt
p:/ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS;- - - - - - ----Matt Dralle, L
ist Admin=====matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List" target=_blank>h
ttp://www.matronics.com/=- - - - - - ---- MATRONICS sp;
- - - - - - A href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" ta
rget=_blank>http://www=================
=====
http://f=- - - - - ---- List Contributionsp; - - -
- - - - - - - &bsp;-->
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
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=0A=0A=0A
Message 11
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|
Does any one know what John Petry sold his airplane for?I just offered
to sell (OR GIVE AWAY) my kis TR4 cruiser for $40,000. with a new
Mattituck all balanced fuel injected engine ,instruments and some
avionics and the bank that told him that the TR4 was selling for
$40,000.Any one interested in a real BARGAIN?
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: AIRPLANE SOLD |
SINCE WHEN DOES BANKS HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MUCH A KIT PLANWE IS WORTH.-- Y
OUR PRICE IS MORE THEN CHEAP.- THE ENGINE ALONE IS WORTH 20K
--- On Fri, 10/29/10, ted scott <teds532@wk.net> wrote:
From: ted scott <teds532@wk.net>
Subject: KIS-List: AIRPLANE SOLD
Does any one know what John Petry sold his airplane for?I just offered to s
ell (OR GIVE AWAY)-my kis TR4 cruiser for $40,000.-with a new Mattituck
all balanced fuel injected -engine ,instruments and-some avionics and
the bank that told him that the TR4 was selling for $40,000.Any one interes
ted in a real BARGAIN?
=0A=0A=0A
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: AIRPLANE SOLD |
Scott,
You would probably do better selling the engine separate and the aircraft
project without the engine. Get at least 20,000. for the 0-time engine
and at least 30,000. for the plane. Or you can give it away for 40,000. if
you really need the money.
Al
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Richard Trickel
<richard_trickel@yahoo.com>wrote:
> SINCE WHEN DOES BANKS HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MUCH A KIT PLANWE IS WORTH. YOUR
> PRICE IS MORE THEN CHEAP. THE ENGINE ALONE IS WORTH 20K
>
> --- On *Fri, 10/29/10, ted scott <teds532@wk.net>* wrote:
>
>
> From: ted scott <teds532@wk.net>
> Subject: KIS-List: AIRPLANE SOLD
> To: kis-list@matronics.com
> Date: Friday, October 29, 2010, 6:43 PM
>
> Does any one know what John Petry sold his airplane for?I just offered to
> sell (OR GIVE AWAY) my kis TR4 cruiser for $40,000. with a new Mattituck all
> balanced fuel injected engine ,instruments and some avionics and the bank
> that told him that the TR4 was selling for $40,000.Any one interested in a
> real BARGAIN?
>
> *
>
> =nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
> et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
> llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: AIRPLANE SOLD |
Is your airplane flying? If not, about how far along is it?
Galin
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 1:43 PM, ted scott <teds532@wk.net> wrote:
> Does any one know what John Petry sold his airplane for?I just offered to
> sell (OR GIVE AWAY) my kis TR4 cruiser for $40,000. with a new Mattituck all
> balanced fuel injected engine ,instruments and some avionics and the bank
> that told him that the TR4 was selling for $40,000.Any one interested in a
> real BARGAIN?
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: AIRPLANE SOLD |
I DO NOT NEED THE MONEY.I JUST WANT TO GET RID OF IT.SOME ONE WILL GET A
BARGAIN.
----- Original Message -----
From: ALFRED ROSA
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: AIRPLANE SOLD
Scott,
You would probably do better selling the engine separate and the
aircraft project without the engine. Get at least 20,000. for the
0-time engine
and at least 30,000. for the plane. Or you can give it away for
40,000. if you really need the money.
Al
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Richard Trickel
<richard_trickel@yahoo.com> wrote:
SINCE WHEN DOES BANKS HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MUCH A KIT PLANWE IS
WORTH. YOUR PRICE IS MORE THEN CHEAP. THE ENGINE ALONE IS WORTH 20K
--- On Fri, 10/29/10, ted scott <teds532@wk.net> wrote:
From: ted scott <teds532@wk.net>
Subject: KIS-List: AIRPLANE SOLD
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Friday, October 29, 2010, 6:43 PM
Does any one know what John Petry sold his airplane for?I
just offered to sell (OR GIVE AWAY) my kis TR4 cruiser for $40,000. with
a new Mattituck all balanced fuel injected engine ,instruments and some
avionics and the bank that told him that the TR4 was selling for
$40,000.Any one interested in a real BARGAIN?
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: AIRPLANE SOLD |
THE AIRPLANE IS ABOUT 60 TO 70 % COMPLETED.IT HAS A NEW MATTITUCK XP360
FUEL INJECTED ALL BABLNCED ENGINE WITH THE AEROSANCE FADEC SYSTEM THAT
COST ABOUT$30,000.GO TO BARNSTORMERS.COM AND SEE MY AD UNDER KIT
PLANES.THIS IS THE BARGAIN OF THE YEAR.
----- Original Message -----
From: Galin Hernandez
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: AIRPLANE SOLD
Is your airplane flying? If not, about how far along is it?
Galin
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 1:43 PM, ted scott <teds532@wk.net> wrote:
Does any one know what John Petry sold his airplane for?I just
offered to sell (OR GIVE AWAY) my kis TR4 cruiser for $40,000. with a
new Mattituck all balanced fuel injected engine ,instruments and some
avionics and the bank that told him that the TR4 was selling for
$40,000.Any one interested in a real BARGAIN?
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 17
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| Subject: | KIS TR-1 Paint Job |
10/29/2010
Hello Al, You wrote:
1) "Great looking plane."
Thanks.
2) "The paint finish doesn't seem to have that "wet" look."
The paint finish may be a bit more shiny / reflective than it appears at
first glance in this picture. Take a look at the reflection on the bottom of
the engine cowl and the nose of the right main gear wheel pant. Many people
when they first see the airplane say "What a great paint job." (I don't
entirely agree.)
2) "Is that from lack of clearcoat?"
That is for sure -- I am not a fan of clear coat at all. The finish is UV
Smooth Prime (many, many coats applied, well aged, and well sanded by me), a
Deltron sealer, and PPG Concept topcoat-- the last two sprayed on by an auto
body guy.
He did not do the best job, too much orange peel, and someday I may sand it
flat and buff it shiny. Also the fabric weave is showing a bit -- the UV
Smooth Prime did not do its job. Also my mistake in not using a true primer
rather than just a sealer over the UV Smooth Prime (followed the
recommendation of a different auto body painter in that mistake).
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
========================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "ALFRED ROSA" <fredorosa@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Memory Lane
> OC,
>
> Great looking plane. The paint finish doesn't seem to have that "wet"
> look.
> Is that from lack of clearcoat"
>
> Al
Message 18
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10/29/2010
Hello Jason, You wrote: "So if ATC asks what type of plane you are flying,
do you answer KIS2, KIS, TR-1, or?"
If the question appears to be an official query for flight plan data
purposes I tell them "KIS2" because that is what their computer will accept.
If it is a curious controller asking "really what kind is it?" I tell them
that it is a "KIS TR-1, sort of a poor man's fixed gear Lancair". That
answer seems to suffice.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
=======================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Hills" <jason@hills.org>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 12:00 PM
Subject: KIS-List: Re: Memory Lane
.....skip....
> > So if ATC asks what type of plane you are flying, do you answer KIS2,
> > KIS, TR-1, or? I get asked on radio all the time what my plane is. It's
> > pretty unfamiliar I think. A few times when the description isn't
> > working I've fallen back to, it's kind of like a plastic rv, which is
> > kind of the personal joke between my a&p and myself as we keep adapting
> > vans parts for upgrades or repairs -- modally because he works on tons
> > of rv's and it's fast to get parts from them since they are so close.
>
> ...Jason
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