---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/10/11: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:19 AM - Re: to those that still have matco brakes... (Graham Brighton) 2. 07:35 AM - Re: to those that still have matco brakes... (Bill Schertz) 3. 07:44 AM - Re: to those that still have matco brakes... (John Forster) 4. 07:48 AM - Re: to those that still have matco brakes... (kent pyle) 5. 09:44 AM - Re: to those that still have matco brakes... (F. Tim Yoder) 6. 10:02 AM - Re: to those that still have matco brakes... (Bob and Kathy) 7. 11:38 AM - Re: to those that still have matco brakes... (Scott Stearns) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:19:53 AM PST US From: "Graham Brighton" Subject: Re: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes... Hey there Scott, I have the Matco brakes ..so thx will check out the 'kit' ... Back last April while test flying a rebuilt Subaru transplant ..a inlet valve head broke off and caused a forced landing ....have since been hung up with finding an engine build shop that i'm confidant with .. to build another Subaru engine that i'd fly behind ......Am looking at a mid time IO-360 .... Can u tell me the weight of urs (all up complete with accessories but no prop ) ... Would be a big turn around for me to go this way .. but am presently 'looking' at all possibilities ...!! Cheers Graham (TR1 # 80 ) .. ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Stearns To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 5:10 AM Subject: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes... Matco makes a 'brake intensifier kit' for the master cylinders. It's basically a sleeve that lets you use a smaller piston so you get more brake pressure per foot pressure. I got the kit and installed it. It's not a night and day difference, but a noticable improvment. Without the kit my matco brakes were inadequate, but I would call them acceptable with the kit. The kit is complete, but for some reason that I don't understand they make the customer trim down the sleeve to fit. The kits are only $16 so I'd recomment buying and extra one in case the sleeve trimming doesn't go well on one. Scott ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:58 AM PST US From: "Bill Schertz" Subject: Re: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes... I have a TR-4, that came with Matco Brakes. At first start-up and taxi, the braking action was very poor, and uneven. I could not turn right. Diagnosis revealed that one caliper had leaked, contaminating the surface. I cleaned that up, and it was =98better=99 but still not good. Did the exercise of pulling the plane and riding the brakes to =98burn them in=99 and that helped quite a bit. Found that one caliper was still leaking, so contacted Matco. Turns out that they had been bought out by a new owner since my original brakes were made. several changes were available. 1. a larger caliper cylinders 2. a more aggressive brake pad, and 3. they changed the material that the rotor was made of , and when I removed my calipers to send them back to be retrofit, I found that one of the rotors had a crack in it. Discussion with Matco revealed that the original rotors (which I had) were made from an easily machined material that contained graphitic carbon (which can act as a lubricant =93 good for machining and bad for braking), and the new rotors were made of a different alloy. Bottom line =93 I upgraded the caliper cylinders, and the rotors. I have great braking now. Will hold the plane at full throttle on the ground (if the tires don=99t slide on the pavement). I paid attention to the geometry at the master cylinders from the Matco literature, and did not use the wimpy brake pedals that KIS supplied. By the way, I completed my 40 hour test requirement yesterday. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS From: Graham Brighton Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 5:16 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes... Hey there Scott, I have the Matco brakes ..so thx will check out the 'kit' ... Back last April while test flying a rebuilt Subaru transplant ..a inlet valve head broke off and caused a forced landing ....have since been hung up with finding an engine build shop that i'm confidant with .. to build another Subaru engine that i'd fly behind ......Am looking at a mid time IO-360 .... Can u tell me the weight of urs (all up complete with accessories but no prop ) ... Would be a big turn around for me to go this way .. but am presently 'looking' at all possibilities ...!! Cheers Graham (TR1 # 80 ) .. ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Stearns To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 5:10 AM Subject: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes... Matco makes a 'brake intensifier kit' for the master cylinders. It's basically a sleeve that lets you use a smaller piston so you get more brake pressure per foot pressure. I got the kit and installed it. It's not a night and day difference, but a noticable improvment. Without the kit my matco brakes were inadequate, but I would call them acceptable with the kit. The kit is complete, but for some reason that I don't understand they make the customer trim down the sleeve to fit. The kits are only $16 so I'd recomment buying and extra one in case the sleeve trimming doesn't go well on one. Scott href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?KIS-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:29 AM PST US Subject: RE: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes... From: "John Forster" Bill, Did they offer some discount for the upgrade process? I am still leaning toward replacing everything with Grove, but I am interested in the positive changes that Matco made. And congrats on the testing milestone! John ________________________________ From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Schertz Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 9:27 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes... I have a TR-4, that came with Matco Brakes. At first start-up and taxi, the braking action was very poor, and uneven. I could not turn right. Diagnosis revealed that one caliper had leaked, contaminating the surface. I cleaned that up, and it was 'better' but still not good. Did the exercise of pulling the plane and riding the brakes to 'burn them in' and that helped quite a bit. Found that one caliper was still leaking, so contacted Matco. Turns out that they had been bought out by a new owner since my original brakes were made. several changes were available. 1. a larger caliper cylinders 2. a more aggressive brake pad, and 3. they changed the material that the rotor was made of , and when I removed my calipers to send them back to be retrofit, I found that one of the rotors had a crack in it. Discussion with Matco revealed that the original rotors (which I had) were made from an easily machined material that contained graphitic carbon (which can act as a lubricant - good for machining and bad for braking), and the new rotors were made of a different alloy. Bottom line - I upgraded the caliper cylinders, and the rotors. I have great braking now. Will hold the plane at full throttle on the ground (if the tires don't slide on the pavement). I paid attention to the geometry at the master cylinders from the Matco literature, and did not use the wimpy brake pedals that KIS supplied. By the way, I completed my 40 hour test requirement yesterday. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS From: Graham Brighton Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 5:16 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes... Hey there Scott, I have the Matco brakes ..so thx will check out the 'kit' ... Back last April while test flying a rebuilt Subaru transplant ..a inlet valve head broke off and caused a forced landing ....have since been hung up with finding an engine build shop that i'm confidant with .. to build another Subaru engine that i'd fly behind ......Am looking at a mid time IO-360 .... Can u tell me the weight of urs (all up complete with accessories but no prop ) ... Would be a big turn around for me to go this way .. but am presently 'looking' at all possibilities ...!! Cheers Graham (TR1 # 80 ) .. ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Stearns To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 5:10 AM Subject: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes... Matco makes a 'brake intensifier kit' for the master cylinders. It's basically a sleeve that lets you use a smaller piston so you get more brake pressure per foot pressure. I got the kit and installed it. It's not a night and day difference, but a noticable improvment. Without the kit my matco brakes were inadequate, but I would call them acceptable with the kit. The kit is complete, but for some reason that I don't understand they make the customer trim down the sleeve to fit. The kits are only $16 so I'd recomment buying and extra one in case the sleeve trimming doesn't go well on one. Scott href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronhre f ="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics .. com/Navigator?KIS-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:57 AM PST US From: "kent pyle" Subject: Re: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes... Bill, I am most happy to hear you have completed the required testing time. Come see me when you fly into KC and we will do lunch. Kent ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Schertz To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 9:27 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes... I have a TR-4, that came with Matco Brakes. At first start-up and taxi, the braking action was very poor, and uneven. I could not turn right. Diagnosis revealed that one caliper had leaked, contaminating the surface. I cleaned that up, and it was =98better=99 but still not good. Did the exercise of pulling the plane and riding the brakes to =98burn them in=99 and that helped quite a bit. Found that one caliper was still leaking, so contacted Matco. Turns out that they had been bought out by a new owner since my original brakes were made. several changes were available. 1. a larger caliper cylinders 2. a more aggressive brake pad, and 3. they changed the material that the rotor was made of , and when I removed my calipers to send them back to be retrofit, I found that one of the rotors had a crack in it. Discussion with Matco revealed that the original rotors (which I had) were made from an easily machined material that contained graphitic carbon (which can act as a lubricant =93 good for machining and bad for braking), and the new rotors were made of a different alloy. Bottom line =93 I upgraded the caliper cylinders, and the rotors. I have great braking now. Will hold the plane at full throttle on the ground (if the tires don=99t slide on the pavement). I paid attention to the geometry at the master cylinders from the Matco literature, and did not use the wimpy brake pedals that KIS supplied. By the way, I completed my 40 hour test requirement yesterday. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS From: Graham Brighton Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 5:16 AM To: kis-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes... Hey there Scott, I have the Matco brakes ..so thx will check out the 'kit' ... Back last April while test flying a rebuilt Subaru transplant ..a inlet valve head broke off and caused a forced landing ....have since been hung up with finding an engine build shop that i'm confidant with .. to build another Subaru engine that i'd fly behind ......Am looking at a mid time IO-360 .... Can u tell me the weight of urs (all up complete with accessories but no prop ) ... Would be a big turn around for me to go this way .. but am presently 'looking' at all possibilities ...!! Cheers Graham (TR1 # 80 ) . ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Stearns To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 5:10 AM Subject: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes... Matco makes a 'brake intensifier kit' for the master cylinders. It's basically a sleeve that lets you use a smaller piston so you get more brake pressure per foot pressure. I got the kit and installed it. It's not a night and day difference, but a noticable improvment. Without the kit my matco brakes were inadequate, but I would call them acceptable with the kit. The kit is complete, but for some reason that I don't understand they make the customer trim down the sleeve to fit. The kits are only $16 so I'd recomment buying and extra one in case the sleeve trimming doesn't go well on one. Scott href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronhre f="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?KIS-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 01/10/11 01:34:00 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:07 AM PST US From: "F. Tim Yoder" Subject: Re: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes... Congratulations on the 40 hrs.!!! I met George (Matco) at OSH last year and and got that same information. I ordered the new discs and pads that I will install at the next annual. I think John would be satisfied with the Matco Brakes with the upgrades. 'OC' told about his efforts in changing his Matco to Grove and I think it was quite a bit of work. Happy flying, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Schertz To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 8:27 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes... I have a TR-4, that came with Matco Brakes. At first start-up and taxi, the braking action was very poor, and uneven. I could not turn right. Diagnosis revealed that one caliper had leaked, contaminating the surface. I cleaned that up, and it was =98better=99 but still not good. Did the exercise of pulling the plane and riding the brakes to =98burn them in=99 and that helped quite a bit. Found that one caliper was still leaking, so contacted Matco. Turns out that they had been bought out by a new owner since my original brakes were made. several changes were available. 1. a larger caliper cylinders 2. a more aggressive brake pad, and 3. they changed the material that the rotor was made of , and when I removed my calipers to send them back to be retrofit, I found that one of the rotors had a crack in it. Discussion with Matco revealed that the original rotors (which I had) were made from an easily machined material that contained graphitic carbon (which can act as a lubricant =93 good for machining and bad for braking), and the new rotors were made of a different alloy. Bottom line =93 I upgraded the caliper cylinders, and the rotors. I have great braking now. Will hold the plane at full throttle on the ground (if the tires don=99t slide on the pavement). I paid attention to the geometry at the master cylinders from the Matco literature, and did not use the wimpy brake pedals that KIS supplied. By the way, I completed my 40 hour test requirement yesterday. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS From: Graham Brighton Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 5:16 AM To: kis-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes... Hey there Scott, I have the Matco brakes ..so thx will check out the 'kit' ... Back last April while test flying a rebuilt Subaru transplant ..a inlet valve head broke off and caused a forced landing ....have since been hung up with finding an engine build shop that i'm confidant with .. to build another Subaru engine that i'd fly behind ......Am looking at a mid time IO-360 .... Can u tell me the weight of urs (all up complete with accessories but no prop ) ... Would be a big turn around for me to go this way .. but am presently 'looking' at all possibilities ...!! Cheers Graham (TR1 # 80 ) . ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Stearns To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 5:10 AM Subject: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes... Matco makes a 'brake intensifier kit' for the master cylinders. It's basically a sleeve that lets you use a smaller piston so you get more brake pressure per foot pressure. I got the kit and installed it. It's not a night and day difference, but a noticable improvment. Without the kit my matco brakes were inadequate, but I would call them acceptable with the kit. The kit is complete, but for some reason that I don't understand they make the customer trim down the sleeve to fit. The kits are only $16 so I'd recomment buying and extra one in case the sleeve trimming doesn't go well on one. Scott href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronhre f="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?KIS-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:02:43 AM PST US From: Bob and Kathy Subject: Re: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes... To any one who may be interested. I have a complete set of Clevelands for a =0ATR-1. Includes master cylinders, 5" wheels and tires if needed=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: John Forster =0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, January 10, 2011 9:40:0 8 AM=0ASubject: RE: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes...=0A =0A =0ABill,=0A =0ADid they offer some discount for the upgrade process? I am still leaning toward =0Areplacing everything with Grove, but I am inter ested in the positive changes =0Athat Matco made.=0A =0AAnd congrats on the testing milestone!=0A =0AJohn=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A =0AFrom:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-kis-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Schertz=0ASent: Monday, January 10, 201 1 9:27 AM=0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: KIS-List: to those th at still have matco brakes...=0A =0AI have a TR-4, that came with Matco Bra kes. At first start-up and taxi, the =0Abraking action was very poor, and u neven. I could not turn right. Diagnosis =0Arevealed that one caliper had leaked, contaminating the surface. I cleaned that =0Aup, and it was =98better=99 but still not good. Did the exercise of pulling the =0Ap lane and riding the brakes to =98burn them in=99 and that helpe d quite a bit.=0A =0AFound that one caliper was still leaking, so contacted Matco.=0A =0ATurns out that they had been bought out by a new owner since my original brakes =0Awere made. several changes were available.=0A1. a lar ger caliper cylinders=0A2. a more aggressive brake pad, and=0A3. they chang ed the material that the rotor was made of , and when I removed my =0Acalip ers to send them back to be retrofit, I found that one of the rotors had a =0Acrack in it. Discussion with Matco revealed that the original rotors (w hich I =0Ahad) were made from an easily machined material that contained gr aphitic carbon =0A(which can act as a lubricant =93 good for machinin g and bad for braking), and the =0Anew rotors were made of a different allo y. Bottom line =93 I upgraded the caliper =0Acylinders, and the roto rs.=0A =0AI have great braking now. Will hold the plane at full throttle on the ground (if =0Athe tires don=99t slide on the pavement). I paid attention to the geometry at the =0Amaster cylinders from the Matco literat ure, and did not use the wimpy brake =0Apedals that KIS supplied.=0A =0ABy the way, I completed my 40 hour test requirement yesterday.=0A =0ABill Sche rtz=0AKIS Cruiser #4045=0AN343BS=0AFrom:Graham Brighton =0ASent:Monday, Jan uary 10, 2011 5:16 AM=0ATo:kis-list@matronics.com =0ASubject:Re: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes...=0A =0AHey there Scott,=0A I have the Matco brakes ..so thx will check out =0Athe 'kit' ... Back last April while test flying a rebuilt Subaru transplant . .a =0Ainlet valve head broke off and caused a forced landing ....have since been hung =0Aup with finding an engine build shop that i'm confidant with .. to build another =0ASubaru engine that i'd fly behind ......Am looking at a mid time IO-360 .... =0ACan u tell me the weight of urs (all up comple te with accessories but no prop ) =0A... =0A=0A =0AWould be a big turn aro und for me to go this way .. but am presently 'looking' =0Aat all possibili ties ...!!=0A =0ACheers=0AGraham (TR1 # 80 )=0A =0A.=0A----- Original Mess age ----- =0A>From:Scott Stearns =0A>To:kis-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent:Mon day, January 10, 2011 5:10 AM=0A>Subject:KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes...=0A> =0A>Matco makes a 'brake intensifier kit' for the ma ster cylinders. It's =0A>basically a sleeve that lets you use a smaller piston so you get more brake =0A>pressure per foot pressure.=0A> =0A>I got the kit and installed it. It's not a night and day difference, but a =0A >noticable improvment. Without the kit my matco brakes were inadequate, but I =0A>would call them acceptable with the kit. =0A>=0A> =0A>The kit is complete, but for some reason that I don't understand they make the =0A>customer trim down the sleeve to fit. The kits are only $16 so I'd r ecomment =0A>buying and extra one in case the sleeve trimming doesn't go well on one. =0A>=0A> =0A>Scott =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>href="http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matr onics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>=0A>href="http://www.matronics. com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c=0A =0A =0Ahref="http://www .matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-L ist=0A=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com =0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ c=0A =0A =0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List=0Ahttp://forums.m ====== =0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:38:26 AM PST US From: Scott Stearns Subject: Re: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes... Hello, - I have carbon wings, cowl and control surfaces, a parallel valve IO-360, an d a wood/composite prince prop and it weighs about 850 lbs.- - -If I were looking for the same performance as the subaru-I'd buy a mid to high time-O-235 and pull the cylinders and have the heads ported and put in high compression pistons.- You could get at least 130HP out of it. - I'd recommend lycon in CA-for the head-work and pistons.- - You could do the same with a 320 and get 180-190 HP.- My "180 HP" 360 did 227 HP on the test cell with ported heads and 10:1 pistons and some other minor stuff.- It's a great engine, but cooling it at high power has been a big project. - The 360 requires major cowl work for induction and increase cooling and it just bearly fits under the cowl.- I have about 1/8" on each side.- - Scott - - --- On Mon, 1/10/11, Graham Brighton wrote: From: Graham Brighton Subject: Re: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes... Hey there Scott, ------------------------- ---- I have the Matco brakes ..so thx will check out the 'kit' ... - Back last April-while test flying a rebuilt Subaru transplant ..a inl et valve head broke off and caused a-forced landing ....have since been h ung up with finding an engine build shop that i'm confidant with ..-to bu ild another Subaru engine -that i'd fly behind ......Am looking at a mid time IO-360 .... Can u tell me the weight of urs (all up complete with acce ssories but no prop )- ... - Would be a big turn around for me to go this way .. but am presently 'looki ng' at all possibilities ...!! - Cheers Graham- (TR1 # 80 ) - .. ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Stearns Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 5:10 AM Subject: KIS-List: to those that still have matco brakes... Matco makes a 'brake intensifier kit' for the master cylinders.- It's bas ically a sleeve that lets you use a smaller piston so-you get more brake pressure per foot pressure. - I got the kit and installed it.- It's not a night and day difference, but a noticable improvment.- Without the kit my matco brakes were inadequate , but I would call them acceptable with the kit.- - The kit is complete, but for some reason that I don't understand they make the customer trim down the sleeve to fit.- The kits are only $16 so I'd r ecomment buying and extra one in case the sleeve trimming doesn't go well o n one.- - Scott href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?KIS-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =0A=0A=0A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.