Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:13 AM - SV: Prince P-tip Propeller Users? (Hans Christian Erstad)
2. 09:03 AM - Re: Prince P-tip Propeller Users? ()
3. 09:04 AM - Re: Prince P-tip Propeller Users? ()
4. 09:11 AM - Re: Prince P-tip Propeller Users? ()
5. 03:53 PM - Re: SV: Prince P-tip Propeller Users? (BlueSkyFlier)
6. 04:34 PM - Re: Prince P-tip Propeller Users? (BlueSkyFlier)
7. 04:58 PM - Re: Prince P-tip Propeller Users? (BlueSkyFlier)
8. 05:49 PM - Re: Re: Prince P-tip Propeller Users? (F. Tim Yoder)
9. 06:21 PM - Re: Re: Prince P-tip Propeller Users? (Larry David)
10. 06:57 PM - Re: Re: Prince P-tip Propeller Users? (F. Tim Yoder)
11. 11:04 PM - Official KIS-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
12. 11:08 PM - Official KIS-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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Subject: | Prince P-tip Propeller Users? |
I have TR-1 #32 with a IO-240A (125 hp @2800 RPM) and a Prince P-Tip
(pre-carbon fiber) 62x68 (Diameter 62 Pitch 68)
Static RPM (full throtle without moving) is 2200 to 2250 RPM, and full
throttle in flight result in 2800 RPM (after a little while)
So, my 62x68 P-Tip is coarse and suitable for long distance flying, and
fields >600m with hard surface.
In my opinion my 62x68 is as coarse as could be recommended. Finer pich cold
recommended for short fields or grass, or short flight with lot of climbing.
A finer pich may also give a less flat approach. The TR-1 i "slippery" and
does not have much flap, so approach is flat unless you slow down close to
stall.
Regards,
Hans Christian Erstad
http://home.c2i.net/h-erstad/
-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] P vegne av BlueSkyFlier
Sendt: 1. februar 2011 04:22
Til: kis-list@matronics.com
Emne: KIS-List: Prince P-tip Propeller Users?
--> <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
Greetings KIS TR-1 owners,
I recently bought a TR-1 (kit #30) constructed by Peter Webb here in the UK.
She flies beautifully but can do with a slightly less coarse pitch prop.
I am seriously considering fitting a Prince P-tip (carbon fiber version).
According to Lonnie Prince there are 24 KIS aircraft flying with Prince
P-tip propellers.
Anyone out there who can comment on what pitch works well on the TR-1? ...
engine power would be a factor in that equation I guess :o)) My tractor is
an O-240 which supposedly cranks out 130 hp at 2800 RPM peak.
Would appreciate any input regarding your experiences with Prince P-tip
props.
Thanks and regards,
Alfred
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329151#329151
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Prince P-tip Propeller Users? |
2/1/2011
Hello Alfred, Congratulations on getting a KIS TR-1. I think that it is a
great little airplane combined with a TCM IO-240 engine.
I have over 300 hours on mine now (Kit #116) powered by a TCM IO-240 B9B
engine with a 68 inch diameter, 69 inch pitch Prince P-Tip prop. I get about
2,200 RPM during the early stages of takeoff roll and could exceed 2,800 RPM
at full throttle at altitude.
You wrote: "She flies beautifully but can do with a slightly less coarse
pitch prop."
I assume that you are looking for a finer pitched prop than your present one
in order to get more RPM (and therefore more power) during takeoff and
climb.
Can you please give us what RPM numbers you are seeing now and the info on
your prop make, diameter, and pitch?
Any fixed pitch prop is going to be a compromise between climb (takeoff) and
cruise performance, but one can bias in one direction or the other depending
upon desired operating conditions. Keep in mind that regardless of what prop
one is using the KIS TR-1 design is not optimized for short field
performance.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
PS: Here is a link to the TCM IO-240 B engine specification sheet showing
125 HP at 2,800 RPM:
http://www.tcmlink.com/EngSpecSheetDocs/IO240B.pdf
====================================================
From: "BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:21 PM
Subject: KIS-List: Prince P-tip Propeller Users?
> <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
>
> Greetings KIS TR-1 owners,
>
> I recently bought a TR-1 (kit #30) constructed by Peter Webb here in the
> UK. She flies beautifully but can do with a slightly less coarse pitch
> prop.
>
> I am seriously considering fitting a Prince P-tip (carbon fiber version).
> According to Lonnie Prince there are 24 KIS aircraft flying with Prince
> P-tip propellers.
>
> Anyone out there who can comment on what pitch works well on the TR-1? ...
> engine power would be a factor in that equation I guess :o)) My tractor is
> an O-240 which supposedly cranks out 130 hp at 2800 RPM peak.
>
> Would appreciate any input regarding your experiences with Prince P-tip
> props.
>
> Thanks and regards,
> Alfred
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Prince P-tip Propeller Users? |
2/1/2011
Hello Tim, You wrote: "I have a wood Sensenich 69 x 72 prop. and get 165
mph at 2550 RPM and 195 mph at 2800rpm ......"
What RPM are you seeing static or early in the takeoff roll at full
throttle? Thanks.
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
==================================
From: "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Prince P-tip Propeller Users?
>
> Congratulations, I enjoy my TR-1, kit #47. I also have the IO-240 B1B,
> they are rated 125 min. hp to 130 at 2800 I think. I have a wood Sensenich
> 69 x 72 prop. and get 165 mph at 2550 RPM and 195 mph at 2800rpm at gross
> weight (1550#) for both speeds, 920# empty.
>
> What is your static RPM and max. cruise RPM with the prop you have?
>
> Tim
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Prince P-tip Propeller Users? |
2/1/2011
Hello Scott: You wrote: "My prop arrived without paint on the tips."
So your prop had the carbon fiber visible over the entire prop when you
received it and you just put paint on the tips leaving the carbon fiber
exposed over the rest of the prop?
Thanks,
'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."
===============================================
From: "Scott Stearns" <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Prince P-tip Propeller Users?
My prince prop is gorgeous. My prop arrived without paint on the tips. I'd
ask him to paint the tips white so you have a visible prop arc. The FAA is
big on that over here. I painted my tips myself.
Scott
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: SV: Prince P-tip Propeller Users? |
Thank you for the information about your prop performance Hans Christian.
My current prop is a Chris Lodge 66.5" dia x 68" pitch. Static rpm is 2200 and
max rpm in level flight is 2500 at low altitude. However, with that 2500 rpm
I see 140 knots IAS - not yet quite sure how accurate that airspeed indicator
is.
Let me use this opprtunity to also thank you in person for the excellent POH you
compiled for the KIS2. It was an invaluable source of information when I was
evaluating the KIS2 type as a potential buyer.
I agree with your comment regarding maintaining a fairly flat/level attitude until
touchdown. With the laminar flow wing the KIS2 does not like to have its nose
pointed too far skyward and tends to bite back with a forward rotating moment
if you do pull it up too steeply, especially with full flaps down.
With one stage flaps she seems quite well behaved and has no trouble keeping the
nose up after touch-down. I am quite happy with her handling, but would just
like a little extra ooomph when I push in the throttle for the odd bump or go-round
:o)
Seems that my Chris Lodge propeller will do for long range high level cruising.
So perhaps I'll keep that for the odd long trip and optimise the Prince P-tip
for more performance at the lower end of the range.
Regards,
Alfred
--------
_________________________________________
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329235#329235
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Prince P-tip Propeller Users? |
Thank you kindly to all who have responded with propeller and performance information.
Your contribution is very encouraging and will come in very handy when
I have to submit the prop change for approval by the LAA (i.e. PFA) here in the
UK.
My current prop is a Chris Lodge 66.5" dia x 69" pitch. Static rpm is 2200 and
max rpm in level flight is 2500 at low altitude. However, with that 2500 rpm I
see 140 knots IAS - not yet quite sure how accurate that airspeed indicator is
-- or the rev counter for that matter :o). The numbers don't really bother me
either way, but I don't need numbers to tell me that the thrust at low speed
is less than I want it to be. The aircraft makes that message quite clear when
executing a go-round from near stall speed - especially if you haven't yet had
time to raise 2nd stage flaps.
The supposed nose-drop tendency of the KIS2 was a bit of a concern, but can gladly
report that in my case it seems to be a rumour. In any case I have full oleo
C172 nose gear fitted, just in case :o)) All in all the KIS's performance
profile seems to fit me like glove. All landings (about 13) thus far have been
dead stick glide curves onto short final. Long straight powered finals have
their use and place, but I avoid them if I can.
I agree with Hans Christian's comment about maintaining a fairly flat/level attitude
until main gear touchdown. With the laminar flow wing the KIS2 does not
like to have its nose pointed too far skyward and tends to bite back with a forward
rotating moment if you do pitch it up too steeply, most especially so with
full flaps deployed.
With one stage flaps she seems very mild mannered and that is my preferred landing
configuration. Overall, I am quite happy with the handling, but would just
like a little extra ooomph! when I push in the throttle for the odd bump or go-round.
Seems that my Chris Lodge propeller will be fine for long range high level cruising.
So perhaps I'll keep that for the odd long trip and optimise the Prince
P-tip for more performance at the lower end of the range.
Whilst I was evaluating the KIS type last year I read virtually every message on
this board - way back into the 90's. It therefore feels as if I know some of
your for quite a while already. Thanks for welcoming me to the fold.
Happy landings to all.
Regards,
Alfred
--------
_________________________________________
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329239#329239
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Prince P-tip Propeller Users? |
With specific reference to Tim's post earlier above ....
The performance I see with the Lodge prop equates directly to his results with
the Sensenich and would seems to suggest that my inclination to opt for a larger
diameter prop like his with lesser/reduced pitch is heading in the right direction.
Increasing the diameter allows for improving efficiency at low end airspeed due
to reduction in the "advance ratio" - the latter being a fairly fundamental technical
parameter in prop design.
So now to find the maximum diameter that won't strike the ground on a bad landing
:o) Are you guys aware of any regulations regarding prop ground clearance?
I suspect 12 or 13" would be a minimum.
So it seems that I'm heading for a carbon Prince P-tip in the range of 70-72" diameter
and 67-65" pitch (with larger diameter corresponding to finer pitch).
Thanks for the help on this thread so far.
Regards,
Alfred
--------
_________________________________________
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329240#329240
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Prince P-tip Propeller Users? |
Hello Alfred,
I determined my prop length, 69", by measuring the length from the prop
flange centerline to the ground with no air in the nose tire (simulating a
flat tire)and subtracted an inch from that. I have 7" of ground clearance
with air in the tire. I wanted the longest prop I could safely have. I have
had my share of firm (hard) landings and have not touched the prop.
I remember Rich citing Vance Jaqua about how prop length was king. Rich, do
you remember exactly how he stated it?
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:57 PM
Subject: KIS-List: Re: Prince P-tip Propeller Users?
> <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
>
> With specific reference to Tim's post earlier above ....
>
> The performance I see with the Lodge prop equates directly to his results
> with the Sensenich and would seems to suggest that my inclination to opt
> for a larger diameter prop like his with lesser/reduced pitch is heading
> in the right direction.
>
> Increasing the diameter allows for improving efficiency at low end
> airspeed due to reduction in the "advance ratio" - the latter being a
> fairly fundamental technical parameter in prop design.
>
> So now to find the maximum diameter that won't strike the ground on a bad
> landing :o) Are you guys aware of any regulations regarding prop ground
> clearance? I suspect 12 or 13" would be a minimum.
>
> So it seems that I'm heading for a carbon Prince P-tip in the range of
> 70-72" diameter and 67-65" pitch (with larger diameter corresponding to
> finer pitch).
>
> Thanks for the help on this thread so far.
>
> Regards,
> Alfred
>
> --------
> _________________________________________
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329240#329240
>
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Prince P-tip Propeller Users? |
I had to jump in with a phrase that Vance Jaqua told me a while back
when I was asking him about props. "You should keep your prop as long
as you can as long as you can." I miss Vance and his wisdom on these
issues. It sounds to me like you are collectively coming up with some
good information. Larry
On 2/1/2011 4:32 PM, BlueSkyFlier wrote:
> --> KIS-List message posted by: "BlueSkyFlier"<bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
>
> Thank you kindly to all who have responded with propeller and performance information.
Your contribution is very encouraging and will come in very handy when
I have to submit the prop change for approval by the LAA (i.e. PFA) here in
the UK.
>
> My current prop is a Chris Lodge 66.5" dia x 69" pitch. Static rpm is 2200 and
max rpm in level flight is 2500 at low altitude. However, with that 2500 rpm
I see 140 knots IAS - not yet quite sure how accurate that airspeed indicator
is -- or the rev counter for that matter :o). The numbers don't really bother
me either way, but I don't need numbers to tell me that the thrust at low speed
is less than I want it to be. The aircraft makes that message quite clear when
executing a go-round from near stall speed - especially if you haven't yet
had time to raise 2nd stage flaps.
>
> The supposed nose-drop tendency of the KIS2 was a bit of a concern, but can gladly
report that in my case it seems to be a rumour. In any case I have full
oleo C172 nose gear fitted, just in case :o)) All in all the KIS's performance
profile seems to fit me like glove. All landings (about 13) thus far have been
dead stick glide curves onto short final. Long straight powered finals have
their use and place, but I avoid them if I can.
>
> I agree with Hans Christian's comment about maintaining a fairly flat/level attitude
until main gear touchdown. With the laminar flow wing the KIS2 does not
like to have its nose pointed too far skyward and tends to bite back with a
forward rotating moment if you do pitch it up too steeply, most especially so
with full flaps deployed.
>
> With one stage flaps she seems very mild mannered and that is my preferred landing
configuration. Overall, I am quite happy with the handling, but would just
like a little extra ooomph! when I push in the throttle for the odd bump or
go-round.
>
> Seems that my Chris Lodge propeller will be fine for long range high level cruising.
So perhaps I'll keep that for the odd long trip and optimise the Prince
P-tip for more performance at the lower end of the range.
>
> Whilst I was evaluating the KIS type last year I read virtually every message
on this board - way back into the 90's. It therefore feels as if I know some
of your for quite a while already. Thanks for welcoming me to the fold.
>
> Happy landings to all.
>
> Regards,
> Alfred
>
> --------
> _________________________________________
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329239#329239
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Prince P-tip Propeller Users? |
That's it, thanks for the reminder.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry David" <lgdavid@roadrunner.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Prince P-tip Propeller Users?
>
> I had to jump in with a phrase that Vance Jaqua told me a while back when
> I was asking him about props. "You should keep your prop as long as you
> can as long as you can." I miss Vance and his wisdom on these issues. It
> sounds to me like you are collectively coming up with some good
> information. Larry
>
> On 2/1/2011 4:32 PM, BlueSkyFlier wrote:
>> --> KIS-List message posted by:
>> "BlueSkyFlier"<bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
>>
>> Thank you kindly to all who have responded with propeller and performance
>> information. Your contribution is very encouraging and will come in very
>> handy when I have to submit the prop change for approval by the LAA (i.e.
>> PFA) here in the UK.
>>
>> My current prop is a Chris Lodge 66.5" dia x 69" pitch. Static rpm is
>> 2200 and max rpm in level flight is 2500 at low altitude. However, with
>> that 2500 rpm I see 140 knots IAS - not yet quite sure how accurate that
>> airspeed indicator is -- or the rev counter for that matter :o). The
>> numbers don't really bother me either way, but I don't need numbers to
>> tell me that the thrust at low speed is less than I want it to be. The
>> aircraft makes that message quite clear when executing a go-round from
>> near stall speed - especially if you haven't yet had time to raise 2nd
>> stage flaps.
>>
>> The supposed nose-drop tendency of the KIS2 was a bit of a concern, but
>> can gladly report that in my case it seems to be a rumour. In any case I
>> have full oleo C172 nose gear fitted, just in case :o)) All in all the
>> KIS's performance profile seems to fit me like glove. All landings (about
>> 13) thus far have been dead stick glide curves onto short final. Long
>> straight powered finals have their use and place, but I avoid them if I
>> can.
>>
>> I agree with Hans Christian's comment about maintaining a fairly
>> flat/level attitude until main gear touchdown. With the laminar flow wing
>> the KIS2 does not like to have its nose pointed too far skyward and tends
>> to bite back with a forward rotating moment if you do pitch it up too
>> steeply, most especially so with full flaps deployed.
>>
>> With one stage flaps she seems very mild mannered and that is my
>> preferred landing configuration. Overall, I am quite happy with the
>> handling, but would just like a little extra ooomph! when I push in the
>> throttle for the odd bump or go-round.
>>
>> Seems that my Chris Lodge propeller will be fine for long range high
>> level cruising. So perhaps I'll keep that for the odd long trip and
>> optimise the Prince P-tip for more performance at the lower end of the
>> range.
>>
>> Whilst I was evaluating the KIS type last year I read virtually every
>> message on this board - way back into the 90's. It therefore feels as if
>> I know some of your for quite a while already. Thanks for welcoming me to
>> the fold.
>>
>> Happy landings to all.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alfred
>>
>> --------
>> _________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329239#329239
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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Subject: | Official KIS-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the KIS-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
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following URL:
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Thank you,
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Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
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4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "kis-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the KIS-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the KIS-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/kis-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all KIS-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the KIS-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* KIS-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the KIS-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* KIS-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* KIS-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* KIS-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the KIS-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* KIS-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the KIS-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the KIS-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?KIS
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
KIS-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the KIS-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the KIS-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
KIS-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the KIS-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 12
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|
Subject: | Official KIS-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the KIS-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
KIS-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/KIS-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
KIS-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the KIS-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the KIS-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
KIS-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the KIS-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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