Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:50 AM - Re: Are your rudder pedals safe? (Keith.Miller@esa.int)
2. 01:12 AM - Re: Are your rudder pedals safe? (helixaviation@googlemail.com)
3. 04:33 AM - Re: Are your rudder pedals safe? (Richard Trickel)
4. 04:39 AM - Re: I`m back (Richard Trickel)
5. 05:09 AM - Re: Re: I`m back (Galin Hernandez)
6. 06:55 AM - Re: Re: I`m back (Bill Schertz)
7. 01:00 PM - Re: Re: I`m back (F. Tim Yoder)
8. 02:43 PM - Re: Re: I`m back ()
9. 06:04 PM - Re: Are your rudder pedals safe? (Mark Kettering)
10. 06:21 PM - Re: Re: KIS TR-1 Propeller (Mark Kettering)
11. 06:33 PM - Re: Are your rudder pedals safe? (BlueSkyFlier)
12. 07:01 PM - Re: KIS TR-1 Propeller (BlueSkyFlier)
13. 08:40 PM - Re: Re: Are your rudder pedals safe? (Scott Stearns)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Are your rudder pedals safe? |
Alfred ,
sorry to hear about the accident , what damage was done to the KIS ? .f you
need any advise on repairing it , this forum is the best place to ask for
help
Going back to your particular KIS. Clearly some non- standard
modifications were made during the build , the Cessna steerable Nose gear
being one of them, which probably has not helped in this particular accident
, as the castoring nose gear would have straightened it self under power,
assuming one brake was not locked up .
The choice of a vernier or push pull throttle was a personal choice made
by the builder , it was not specified in the build manual., and I suspect
not many of us have gone that route , as I can see little advantage of such a
throttle on a single engine and my inspector in the UK would not have
agreed to one , after he had a similar experience flying one fitted to a
Kitfox.
For my KIS , I did not like the offset pedals from the first moment I
mounted them and sat in the plane, it clearly felt wrong so they were
modified quite easily by cutting and welding the pilots left Pedal and
Co-pilots right pedal exactly in the opposite direction , this eliminates
the off set feeling completely Plus as OC mentions adding aluminium
plates to the pedals to make them easier to find and operate
I do not remember the builder of your KIS participating to this forum ,
which is a pity since most of this was discussed over the years ,
Keith
From: "BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: 01/03/2011 16:06
Subject: KIS-List: Are your rudder pedals safe?
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
Fellow KIS owners,
Now that the formalities have been dealt with, I can share with you that I
had the misfortune to be involved in a hapless accident on the ground last
week. I would like to share my experience with other KIS TR-1 owners; perhaps
it can help prevent a similar incident.
A copy of section 16 of the aircraft accident reporting form below conveys
the essential information.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16 YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THE CAUSE
My right foot slipped off the starboard rudder pedal at crucial moment whilst
straightening out the steering nose wheel upon commencing the second
stage/leg of a taxiing manoeuvre intended to take me away from the
disembarkation area. Despite a tightly strapped full harness, the unexpected
forward lurch of right hip and shoulder resulted in an inadvertent knock-on
to the throttle, increasing the engine rpm setting substantially beyond my
self-imposed limit for taxiing on tarmac. To fill up the mug of misfortune,
the uppers of my shoe heel caught on the rear edge of the starboard pedal or
brake hinge upon pull-back, effectively locking in a turn to port side whilst
also rendering me incapable of braking and/or steering effectively. Three
seconds later, with foot still stuck, it was all over with two aircraft
substantially damaged and probably destinied to be written off.
Safety factors: (specifically relevant to other KIS TR-1 owners)
1) Rudder pedals should be aligned squarely with pilots hips,
not offset at an angle inboard. The vertical angle of rudder and brake pedal
should allow full surface contact with pilots foot at all times and pedal
surfaces should have high friction coefficient.
2) The release mechanism on a vernier throttle should be operated
by pulling action on a bell shaped slider or finger hook at the rear of the
throttle knob (as on automatic gear shift levers of many vehicles) so as to
automatically enable reduction in power when pilot pulls on the throttle
control mechanism from the rear. Activating the release mechanism by
depressing a knob from the front allows for inadvertent escalation in power
by knock-on at front of the throttle control, whereas it does not facilitate
reduction in power when pilot tries to pull/tug it the throttle outwards in
an emergency situation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The accident resulted in the destruction of two aircraft, mine and another
which was parked. Fortunately, I did adhere to my rule not to start up or
taxi when there are people moving around airside and by Gods grace I
escaped with nothing but a headache and a few scratches.
Please take the time to critically re-inspect your rudder pedal configuration
- I suspect many of you have the same smooth and rather skimpy pedals which
my aircraft is fitted with. If it is at all possible that your rudder pedals
could enable/allow the same accident to happen do not postpone getting
proper pedals fitted. I did, and it cost me dearly.
Having insured the hull only for the amount I paid for it, it seems that it
will be more cost effective for the insurance company to scrap it. So it
seems that I may soon be looking for another KIS TR-1 to buy.
These things do happen in the blink of an eye, so please watch your step (on
the pedals and everywhere).
Kind regards,
Alfred
--------
_________________________________________
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332363#332363
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Subject: | Re: Are your rudder pedals safe? |
Alfred. Terrible news.
I have the vernier throttle on my Kis and quite like it as it allows fine MAP adjustments
as i have an electric variable pitch prop.
I know of a part-built Kis in the UK that may be available for sale. From memory
its got a Subaru engine conversion. Failing that, I would consider letting mine
go for the right offer.
John
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Keith.Miller@esa.int wrote:
ounted
rhaps
it can help prevent a similar incident. A copy of section 16 of the aircraft accident
reporting form below conveys the essential information._____________________________________________
16 YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THE CAUSE My right foot slipped off the starboard rudder
pedal at crucial moment whilst straightening out the steering nose wheel upon
commencing the second stage/leg of a taxiing manoeuvre intended to take me away
from the disembarkation area. Despite a tightly strapped full harness, the unexpected
forward lurch of right hip and shoulder resulted in an inadvertent knock-on
to the throttle, increasing the engine rpm setting substantially beyond
my self-imposed limit for taxiing on tarmac. To fill up the mug of misfortune,
the uppers of my shoe heel caught on the rear edge of the starboard pedal or
brake hinge upon pull-back, effectively locking in a turn to port side whilst
also rendering me incapable of braking and/or steering effectively. Three seconds
later, with foot still stuck, it was all over with two aircraft substantially
damaged and probably destinied to be written off. Safety factors: (specifically
relevant to other KIS TR-1 owners) 1) Rudder
pedals
should be aligned squarely with pilots hips, not offset at an angle inboard. The
vertical angle of rudder and brake pedal should allow full surface contact with
pilots foot at all times and pedal surfaces should have high friction coefficient.
2) The release mechanism on a vernier throttle should be operated by
pulling action on a bell shaped slider or finger hook at the rear of the throttle
knob (as on automatic gear shift levers of many vehicles) so as to automatically
enable reduction in power when pilot pulls on the throttle control mechanism
from the rear. Activating the release mechanism by depressing a knob from
the front allows for inadvertent escalation in power by knock-on at front of
the throttle control, whereas it does not facilitate reduction in power when
pilot tries to pull/tug it the throttle outwards in an emergency situation._____________________________________________
The accident resulted in the destruction of two aircraft, mine and another which
was parked. Fortunately, I did adhere to my rule not to start up or taxi when
there are people moving around airside and by Gods grace I escaped with nothing
but a headache and a few scratches. Please take the time to critically re-inspect
your rudder pedal configuration - I suspect many of you have the same
smooth and rather skimpy pedals which my aircraft is fitted with. If it is at
all possible that your rudder pedals could enable/allow the same accident to happen
do not postpone getting proper pedals fitted. I did, and it cost me dearly.
Having insured the hull only for the amount I paid for it, it seems that
it will be more cost effective for the insurance company to scrap it. So it seems
that I may soon be looking for another KIS TR-1 to buy. These things do happen
in the blink of an eye, so please watch your step (on the pedals and everywhere).
Kind regards, Alfred
--------_____________________________________________
Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332363#332363_____________________________________________
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Are your rudder pedals safe? |
Alfred
Sorry to here of your mishap.=C2- I hope the plane can be repaired.=C2-
Is there a possibility that you could send me pictures of the damage to yo
ur plane.=C2- It would take a lot to total it so hope for the best.
Rich
--- On Wed, 3/2/11, helixaviation@googlemail.com <helixaviation@btinternet.
com> wrote:
From: helixaviation@googlemail.com <helixaviation@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Are your rudder pedals safe?
Alfred. Terrible news.
I have the vernier throttle on my Kis and quite like it as it allows fine M
AP adjustments as i have an electric variable pitch prop.
I know of a part-built Kis in the UK that may be available for sale. From m
emory its got a Subaru engine conversion. Failing that, I would consider le
tting mine go for the right offer.
John
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Keith.Miller@esa.int wrote:
about the accident , what damage was done to the KIS ? .f you need any adv
ise on repairing it , this forum is the best place to ask for help Going ba
ck to your particular KIS. Clearly some non- standard modifications were ma
de during the build , the Cessna steerable Nose gear being one of them, whi
ch probably has not helped in this particular accident , as the castoring n
ose gear would have straightened it self under power, assuming one brake wa
s not locked up . The choice of a vernier or push pull throttle was a perso
nal choice made by the builder , it was not specified in the build manual.,
and I suspect not many of us have gone that route , as I can see little ad
vantage of such a throttle on a single engine and my inspector in the UK wo
uld not have agreed to one , after he had a similar experience flying one f
itted to a Kitfox. For my KIS , I did not like the offset pedals
from the first moment I mounted them and sat in the plane, it clearly felt
wrong so they were modified quite easily by cutting and welding the pilots
left Pedal and Co-pilots right pedal exactly in the opposite direction , t
his eliminates the off set feeling completely Plus as OC mentions adding al
uminium plates to the pedals to make them easier to find and operate I do n
ot remember the builder of your KIS participating to this forum , which is
a pity since most of this was discussed over the years , Keith From: "BlueS
kyFlier" <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com> To: kis-list@matronics.com Date: 01/0
3/2011 16:06 Subject: KIS-List: Are your rudder pedals safe? Sent by: owner
r" <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com> Fellow KIS owners, Now that the formalities
have been dealt with, I can share with you that I had the misfortune to be
involved in a hapless accident on the ground last week. I would
like to share my experience with other KIS TR-1 owners; perhaps it can hel
p prevent a similar incident. A copy of section 16 of the aircraft accident
reporting form below conveys the essential information.
16 YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THE CAUSE My right foot slipped off the starboard rud
der pedal at crucial moment whilst straightening out the steering nose whee
l upon commencing the second stage/leg of a taxiing manoeuvre intended to t
ake me away from the disembarkation area. Despite a tightly strapped full h
arness, the unexpected forward lurch of right hip and shoulder resulted in
an inadvertent knock-on to the throttle, increasing the engine rpm setting
substantially beyond my self-imposed limit for taxiing on tarmac. To fill u
p the mug of misfortune, the uppers of my shoe heel caught on the rear edge
of the starboard pedal or brake hinge upon pull-back, effectively locking
in a turn to port side whilst also rendering me incapable of braking and/or
steering effectively. Three seconds later, with foot still stuck, it was a
ll over with two aircraft substantially damaged and probably destinied to b
e written off. Safety factors: (specifically relevant to other KIS
TR-1 owners) 1) Rudder pedals should be aligned squarely with pilot=C3=A2
=82=AC=84=A2s hips, not offset at an angle inboard. The vertical angl
e of rudder and brake pedal should allow full surface contact with pilot=C3
=A2=82=AC=84=A2s foot at all times and pedal surfaces should have hig
h friction coefficient. 2) The release mechanism on a vernier throttle shou
ld be operated by pulling action on a bell shaped slider or finger hook at
the rear of the throttle knob (as on automatic gear shift levers of many ve
hicles) so as to automatically enable reduction in power when pilot pulls o
n the throttle control mechanism from the rear. Activating the release mech
anism by depressing a knob from the front allows for inadvertent escalation
in power by knock-on at front of the throttle control, whereas it does not
facilitate reduction in power when pilot tries to pull/tug it the throttle
outwards in an emergency situation.
The accident resulted in the destruction of two aircraft, mine and another
which was parked. Fortunately, I did adhere to my rule not to start up or t
axi when there are people moving around airside and by God=C3=A2=82=AC
=84=A2s grace I escaped with nothing but a headache and a few scratches.
Please take the time to critically re-inspect your rudder pedal configurat
ion - I suspect many of you have the same smooth and rather skimpy pedals w
hich my aircraft is fitted with. If it is at all possible that your rudder
pedals could enable/allow the same accident to happen =C3=A2=82=AC
=9C do not postpone getting proper pedals fitted. I did, and it cost me dea
rly. Having insured the hull only for the amount I paid for it, it seems th
at it will be more cost effective for the insurance company to scrap it. So
it seems that I may soon be looking for another KIS TR-1 to buy. These thi
ngs do happen in the blink of an eye, so please watch your step (on the ped
als and everywhere). Kind
regards, Alfred --------
Read this topic online here:
=0A=0A=0A
Message 4
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Hey guys
Sorry I have been out of the circuit for a while.=C2- I got preety sick r
equiring some major surgury and am now recovering.=C2- I can only say tha
t I am glad that the problem was here and not while I was in El Salvador.
=C2- I have been stopping by work for the last few days and generally giv
ing my advice.=C2- No real work yet but at least getting on the move.=C2
- The People here have been great leaving me with no worries.
There is so much email on the list I would never be able to catch it all.
Its is good to see everyone communicating.=C2- Hope to be back in the air
soon myself.
Rich
--- On Wed, 3/2/11, Keith.Miller@esa.int <Keith.Miller@esa.int> wrote:
From: Keith.Miller@esa.int <Keith.Miller@esa.int>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Are your rudder pedals safe?
Alfred ,
sorry to hear about the accident , what damage was done to the KIS ? .f you
need any advise on repairing it=C2- ,=C2- this forum is the best place
to ask=C2- for
help
Going back to your=C2- particular KIS. Clearly=C2-=C2-=C2-some non-
standard
modifications=C2- were made during the build ,=C2- the Cessna steerable
Nose gear
being one of them, which probably has not helped=C2- in this particular a
ccident
, as the castoring nose gear would have straightened it self=C2- under po
wer,
assuming=C2- one brake was not locked up=C2- .
The choice of a vernier=C2- or=C2- push pull throttle was a personal ch
oice=C2-=C2-=C2-made
by the builder , it was not specified in the=C2- build manual., and I sus
pect
not many of us have gone that route , as I can see little advantage of such
a
throttle on a single=C2- engine=C2- and=C2-=C2-=C2-my inspector i
n the UK would not have
agreed to one , after=C2- he had a similar experience=C2- flying one fi
tted to a
Kitfox.
For my KIS=C2- , I did not like the=C2- offset pedals=C2- from the fi
rst moment I
mounted them and sat in the plane, it clearly felt wrong=C2- so they were
modified quite easily=C2- by=C2- cutting and welding=C2- the pilots l
eft Pedal and
Co-pilots right pedal=C2- exactly in the opposite direction , this=C2-
eliminates
the off set=C2- feeling completely Plus as OC=C2- mentions=C2- adding
aluminium
plates to the pedals to make them easier to find and operate
I do not remember=C2- the builder of your KIS=C2- participating to this
forum ,
which is a pity since most of this was discussed over the years ,
Keith
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
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=C2- From:=C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-"BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly@tele
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- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
Fellow KIS owners,
Now that the formalities have been dealt with, I can share with you that I
had the misfortune to be involved in a hapless accident on the ground last
week. I would like to share my experience with other KIS TR-1 owners; perha
ps
it can help prevent a similar incident.
A copy of section 16 of the aircraft accident reporting form below conveys
the essential information.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
16=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THE CAUS
E
My right foot slipped off the starboard rudder pedal at crucial moment whil
st
straightening out the steering nose wheel upon commencing the second
stage/leg of a taxiing manoeuvre intended to take me away from the
disembarkation area. Despite a tightly strapped full harness, the unexpecte
d
forward lurch of right hip and shoulder resulted in an inadvertent knock-on
to the throttle, increasing the engine rpm setting substantially beyond my
self-imposed limit for taxiing on tarmac. To fill up the mug of misfortune,
the uppers of my shoe heel caught on the rear edge of the starboard pedal o
r
brake hinge upon pull-back, effectively locking in a turn to port side whil
st
also rendering me incapable of braking and/or steering effectively. Three
seconds later, with foot still stuck, it was all over with two aircraft
substantially damaged and probably destinied to be written off.
Safety factors: (specifically relevant to other KIS TR-1 owners)
1)=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-Rudder pedals should be ali
gned squarely with pilot=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s hips,
not offset at an angle inboard. The vertical angle of rudder and brake peda
l
should allow full surface contact with pilot=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s foot
at all times and pedal
surfaces should have high friction coefficient.
2)=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-The release mechanism on a
vernier throttle should be operated
by pulling action on a bell shaped slider or finger hook at the rear of the
throttle knob (as on automatic gear shift levers of many vehicles) so as to
automatically enable reduction in power when pilot pulls on the throttle
control mechanism from the rear. Activating the release mechanism by
depressing a knob from the front allows for inadvertent escalation in power
by knock-on at front of the throttle control, whereas it does not facilitat
e
reduction in power when pilot tries to pull/tug it the throttle outwards in
an emergency situation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
The accident resulted in the destruction of two aircraft, mine and another
which was parked.=C2- Fortunately, I did adhere to my rule not to start u
p or
taxi when there are people moving around airside and by God=C3=A2=82=AC
=84=A2s grace I
escaped with nothing but a headache and a few scratches.
Please take the time to critically re-inspect your rudder pedal configurati
on
- I suspect many of you have the same smooth and rather skimpy pedals which
my aircraft is fitted with. If it is at all possible that your rudder pedal
s
could enable/allow the same accident to happen =C3=A2=82=AC=9C do
not postpone getting
proper pedals fitted. I did, and it cost me dearly.
Having insured the hull only for the amount I paid for it, it seems that it
will be more cost effective for the insurance company to scrap it. So it
seems that I may soon be looking for another KIS TR-1 to buy.
These things do happen in the blink of an eye, so please watch your step (o
n
the pedals and everywhere).
Kind regards,
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-A
lfred
--------
_________________________________________
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332363#332363
S WEB FORUMS -
on Web Site -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 5
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Rich:
Welcome back. I am glad you are OK and feeling better.
Al:
Sorry to hear about the accident. I know what it is to have something like
this happen and hope you can get back into the air soon.
Galin
On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 6:32 AM, Richard Trickel
<richard_trickel@yahoo.com>wrote:
> Hey guys
> Sorry I have been out of the circuit for a while. I got preety sick
> requiring some major surgury and am now recovering. I can only say that
I
> am glad that the problem was here and not while I was in El Salvador. I
> have been stopping by work for the last few days and generally giving my
> advice. No real work yet but at least getting on the move. The People h
ere
> have been great leaving me with no worries.
> There is so much email on the list I would never be able to catch it all.
> Its is good to see everyone communicating. Hope to be back in the air so
on
> myself.
> Rich
>
> --- On *Wed, 3/2/11, Keith.Miller@esa.int <Keith.Miller@esa.int>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Keith.Miller@esa.int <Keith.Miller@esa.int>
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Are your rudder pedals safe?
> To: kis-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 8:49 AM
>
l.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Keith.Miller@esa.int>
>
> Alfred ,
> sorry to hear about the accident , what damage was done to the KIS ? .f y
ou
> need any advise on repairing it , this forum is the best place to ask
> for
> help
>
> Going back to your particular KIS. Clearly some non- standard
> modifications were made during the build , the Cessna steerable Nose ge
ar
> being one of them, which probably has not helped in this particular
> accident
> , as the castoring nose gear would have straightened it self under power
,
> assuming one brake was not locked up .
>
> The choice of a vernier or push pull throttle was a personal
> choice made
> by the builder , it was not specified in the build manual., and I suspec
t
> not many of us have gone that route , as I can see little advantage of su
ch
> a
> throttle on a single engine and my inspector in the UK would not have
> agreed to one , after he had a similar experience flying one fitted to
a
> Kitfox.
>
> For my KIS , I did not like the offset pedals from the first moment I
> mounted them and sat in the plane, it clearly felt wrong so they were
> modified quite easily by cutting and welding the pilots left Pedal and
> Co-pilots right pedal exactly in the opposite direction , this eliminat
es
> the off set feeling completely Plus as OC mentions adding aluminium
> plates to the pedals to make them easier to find and operate
>
> I do not remember the builder of your KIS participating to this forum ,
> which is a pity since most of this was discussed over the years ,
>
> Keith
>
>
> From: "BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com<http://us.mc1107
.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>>
>
>
> To: kis-list@matronics.com<http://us.mc1107.mail.yahoo.com/mc/c
ompose?to=kis-list@matronics.com>
>
>
> Date: 01/03/2011 16:06
>
>
> Subject: KIS-List: Are your rudder pedals safe?
>
>
> Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com<http://us.mc1107.mail.y
ahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com>
>
>
m<http://us.mc1107.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bleuskyfly@teledynamix.co
m>
> >
>
> Fellow KIS owners,
>
> Now that the formalities have been dealt with, I can share with you that
I
> had the misfortune to be involved in a hapless accident on the ground las
t
> week. I would like to share my experience with other KIS TR-1 owners;
> perhaps
> it can help prevent a similar incident.
>
> A copy of section 16 of the aircraft accident reporting form below convey
s
> the essential information.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>
> 16 YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THE CAUSE
> My right foot slipped off the starboard rudder pedal at crucial moment
> whilst
> straightening out the steering nose wheel upon commencing the second
> stage/leg of a taxiing manoeuvre intended to take me away from the
> disembarkation area. Despite a tightly strapped full harness, the
> unexpected
> forward lurch of right hip and shoulder resulted in an inadvertent knock-
on
> to the throttle, increasing the engine rpm setting substantially beyond m
y
> self-imposed limit for taxiing on tarmac. To fill up the mug of misfortun
e,
> the uppers of my shoe heel caught on the rear edge of the starboard pedal
> or
> brake hinge upon pull-back, effectively locking in a turn to port side
> whilst
> also rendering me incapable of braking and/or steering effectively. Three
> seconds later, with foot still stuck, it was all over with two aircraft
> substantially damaged and probably destinied to be written off.
>
> Safety factors: (specifically relevant to other KIS TR-1 owners)
> 1) Rudder pedals should be aligned squarely with pilot=99
s hips,
> not offset at an angle inboard. The vertical angle of rudder and brake
> pedal
> should allow full surface contact with pilot=99s foot at all times
and
> pedal
> surfaces should have high friction coefficient.
>
> 2) The release mechanism on a vernier throttle should be operat
ed
> by pulling action on a bell shaped slider or finger hook at the rear of t
he
> throttle knob (as on automatic gear shift levers of many vehicles) so as
to
> automatically enable reduction in power when pilot pulls on the throttle
> control mechanism from the rear. Activating the release mechanism by
> depressing a knob from the front allows for inadvertent escalation in pow
er
> by knock-on at front of the throttle control, whereas it does not
> facilitate
> reduction in power when pilot tries to pull/tug it the throttle outwards
in
> an emergency situation.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>
>
> The accident resulted in the destruction of two aircraft, mine and anothe
r
> which was parked. Fortunately, I did adhere to my rule not to start up o
r
> taxi when there are people moving around airside and by God=99s gra
ce I
> escaped with nothing but a headache and a few scratches.
>
> Please take the time to critically re-inspect your rudder pedal
> configuration
> - I suspect many of you have the same smooth and rather skimpy pedals whi
ch
> my aircraft is fitted with. If it is at all possible that your rudder
> pedals
> could enable/allow the same accident to happen =93 do not postpone
getting
> proper pedals fitted. I did, and it cost me dearly.
>
> Having insured the hull only for the amount I paid for it, it seems that
it
> will be more cost effective for the insurance company to scrap it. So it
> seems that I may soon be looking for another KIS TR-1 to buy.
>
> These things do happen in the blink of an eye, so please watch your step
> (on
> the pedals and everywhere).
>
> Kind regards,
> Alfred
>
> --------
> _________________________________________
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332363#332="http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List"
> target=_blank>http://www; -->
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332363#332363>
>
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 6
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|
Hey Rich, glad to hear that you=99re recovering. Paul Lamar has
been trying to get in contact with you, could you shoot him an email?
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
Phase one testing Completed
From: Richard Trickel
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 6:32 AM
Subject: KIS-List: Re: I`m back
Hey guys
Sorry I have been out of the circuit for a while. I got preety
sick requiring some major surgury and am now recovering. I can only say
that I am glad that the problem was here and not while I was in El
Salvador. I have been stopping by work for the last few days and
generally giving my advice. No real work yet but at least getting on
the move. The People here have been great leaving me with no worries.
There is so much email on the list I would never be able to catch
it all.
Its is good to see everyone communicating. Hope to be back in the
air soon myself.
Rich
--- On Wed, 3/2/11, Keith.Miller@esa.int <Keith.Miller@esa.int>
wrote:
From: Keith.Miller@esa.int <Keith.Miller@esa.int>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Are your rudder pedals safe?
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 8:49 AM
Alfred ,
sorry to hear about the accident , what damage was done to the
KIS ? .f you
need any advise on repairing it , this forum is the best place
to ask for
help
Going back to your particular KIS. Clearly some non- standard
modifications were made during the build , the Cessna
steerable Nose gear
being one of them, which probably has not helped in this
particular accident
, as the castoring nose gear would have straightened it self
under power,
assuming one brake was not locked up .
The choice of a vernier or push pull throttle was a personal
choice made
by the builder , it was not specified in the build manual., and
I suspect
not many of us have gone that route , as I can see little
advantage of such a
throttle on a single engine and my inspector in the UK would
not have
agreed to one , after he had a similar experience flying one
fitted to a
Kitfox.
For my KIS , I did not like the offset pedals from the first
moment I
mounted them and sat in the plane, it clearly felt wrong so
they were
modified quite easily by cutting and welding the pilots left
Pedal and
Co-pilots right pedal exactly in the opposite direction , this
eliminates
the off set feeling completely Plus as OC mentions adding
aluminium
plates to the pedals to make them easier to find and operate
I do not remember the builder of your KIS participating to
this forum ,
which is a pity since most of this was discussed over the years
,
Keith
From: "BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: 01/03/2011 16:06
Subject: KIS-List: Are your rudder pedals safe?
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
<bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
Fellow KIS owners,
Now that the formalities have been dealt with, I can share with
you that I
had the misfortune to be involved in a hapless accident on the
ground last
week. I would like to share my experience with other KIS TR-1
owners; perhaps
it can help prevent a similar incident.
A copy of section 16 of the aircraft accident reporting form
below conveys
the essential information.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
16 YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THE CAUSE
My right foot slipped off the starboard rudder pedal at crucial
moment whilst
straightening out the steering nose wheel upon commencing the
second
stage/leg of a taxiing manoeuvre intended to take me away from
the
disembarkation area. Despite a tightly strapped full harness,
the unexpected
forward lurch of right hip and shoulder resulted in an
inadvertent knock-on
to the throttle, increasing the engine rpm setting substantially
beyond my
self-imposed limit for taxiing on tarmac. To fill up the mug of
misfortune,
the uppers of my shoe heel caught on the rear edge of the
starboard pedal or
brake hinge upon pull-back, effectively locking in a turn to
port side whilst
also rendering me incapable of braking and/or steering
effectively. Three
seconds later, with foot still stuck, it was all over with two
aircraft
substantially damaged and probably destinied to be written off.
Safety factors: (specifically relevant to other KIS TR-1 owners)
1) Rudder pedals should be aligned squarely with
pilot=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s hips,
not offset at an angle inboard. The vertical angle of rudder and
brake pedal
should allow full surface contact with
pilot=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s foot at all times and pedal
surfaces should have high friction coefficient.
2) The release mechanism on a vernier throttle should
be operated
by pulling action on a bell shaped slider or finger hook at the
rear of the
throttle knob (as on automatic gear shift levers of many
vehicles) so as to
automatically enable reduction in power when pilot pulls on the
throttle
control mechanism from the rear. Activating the release
mechanism by
depressing a knob from the front allows for inadvertent
escalation in power
by knock-on at front of the throttle control, whereas it does
not facilitate
reduction in power when pilot tries to pull/tug it the throttle
outwards in
an emergency situation.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
The accident resulted in the destruction of two aircraft, mine
and another
which was parked. Fortunately, I did adhere to my rule not to
start up or
taxi when there are people moving around airside and by
God=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s grace I
escaped with nothing but a headache and a few scratches.
Please take the time to critically re-inspect your rudder pedal
configuration
- I suspect many of you have the same smooth and rather skimpy
pedals which
my aircraft is fitted with. If it is at all possible that your
rudder pedals
could enable/allow the same accident to happen
=C3=A2=82=AC=9C do not postpone getting
proper pedals fitted. I did, and it cost me dearly.
Having insured the hull only for the amount I paid for it, it
seems that it
will be more cost effective for the insurance company to scrap
it. So it
seems that I may soon be looking for another KIS TR-1 to buy.
These things do happen in the blink of an eye, so please watch
your step (on
the pedals and everywhere).
Kind regards,
Alfred
--------
_________________________________________
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332363#332="http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List" target=_blank>http://www; -->
Message 7
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|
Glad to hear that Rich. Keep us posted.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Trickel
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 5:32 AM
Subject: KIS-List: Re: I`m back
Hey guys
Sorry I have been out of the circuit for a while. I got preety
sick requiring some major surgury and am now recovering. I can only say
that I am glad that the problem was here and not while I was in El
Salvador. I have been stopping by work for the last few days and
generally giving my advice. No real work yet but at least getting on
the move. The People here have been great leaving me with no worries.
There is so much email on the list I would never be able to
catch it all.
Its is good to see everyone communicating. Hope to be back in
the air soon myself.
Rich
--- On Wed, 3/2/11, Keith.Miller@esa.int <Keith.Miller@esa.int>
wrote:
From: Keith.Miller@esa.int <Keith.Miller@esa.int>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Are your rudder pedals safe?
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 8:49 AM
Alfred ,
sorry to hear about the accident , what damage was done to the
KIS ? .f you
need any advise on repairing it , this forum is the best
place to ask for
help
Going back to your particular KIS. Clearly some non-
standard
modifications were made during the build , the Cessna
steerable Nose gear
being one of them, which probably has not helped in this
particular accident
, as the castoring nose gear would have straightened it self
under power,
assuming one brake was not locked up .
The choice of a vernier or push pull throttle was a personal
choice made
by the builder , it was not specified in the build manual.,
and I suspect
not many of us have gone that route , as I can see little
advantage of such a
throttle on a single engine and my inspector in the UK
would not have
agreed to one , after he had a similar experience flying one
fitted to a
Kitfox.
For my KIS , I did not like the offset pedals from the
first moment I
mounted them and sat in the plane, it clearly felt wrong so
they were
modified quite easily by cutting and welding the pilots
left Pedal and
Co-pilots right pedal exactly in the opposite direction ,
this eliminates
the off set feeling completely Plus as OC mentions adding
aluminium
plates to the pedals to make them easier to find and operate
I do not remember the builder of your KIS participating to
this forum ,
which is a pity since most of this was discussed over the
years ,
Keith
From: "BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: 01/03/2011 16:06
Subject: KIS-List: Are your rudder pedals safe?
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
<bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
Fellow KIS owners,
Now that the formalities have been dealt with, I can share
with you that I
had the misfortune to be involved in a hapless accident on the
ground last
week. I would like to share my experience with other KIS TR-1
owners; perhaps
it can help prevent a similar incident.
A copy of section 16 of the aircraft accident reporting form
below conveys
the essential information.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
16 YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THE CAUSE
My right foot slipped off the starboard rudder pedal at
crucial moment whilst
straightening out the steering nose wheel upon commencing the
second
stage/leg of a taxiing manoeuvre intended to take me away from
the
disembarkation area. Despite a tightly strapped full harness,
the unexpected
forward lurch of right hip and shoulder resulted in an
inadvertent knock-on
to the throttle, increasing the engine rpm setting
substantially beyond my
self-imposed limit for taxiing on tarmac. To fill up the mug
of misfortune,
the uppers of my shoe heel caught on the rear edge of the
starboard pedal or
brake hinge upon pull-back, effectively locking in a turn to
port side whilst
also rendering me incapable of braking and/or steering
effectively. Three
seconds later, with foot still stuck, it was all over with two
aircraft
substantially damaged and probably destinied to be written
off.
Safety factors: (specifically relevant to other KIS TR-1
owners)
1) Rudder pedals should be aligned squarely with
pilot=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s hips,
not offset at an angle inboard. The vertical angle of rudder
and brake pedal
should allow full surface contact with
pilot=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s foot at all times and pedal
surfaces should have high friction coefficient.
2) The release mechanism on a vernier throttle
should be operated
by pulling action on a bell shaped slider or finger hook at
the rear of the
throttle knob (as on automatic gear shift levers of many
vehicles) so as to
automatically enable reduction in power when pilot pulls on
the throttle
control mechanism from the rear. Activating the release
mechanism by
depressing a knob from the front allows for inadvertent
escalation in power
by knock-on at front of the throttle control, whereas it does
not facilitate
reduction in power when pilot tries to pull/tug it the
throttle outwards in
an emergency situation.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
The accident resulted in the destruction of two aircraft, mine
and another
which was parked. Fortunately, I did adhere to my rule not to
start up or
taxi when there are people moving around airside and by
God=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s grace I
escaped with nothing but a headache and a few scratches.
Please take the time to critically re-inspect your rudder
pedal configuration
- I suspect many of you have the same smooth and rather skimpy
pedals which
my aircraft is fitted with. If it is at all possible that your
rudder pedals
could enable/allow the same accident to happen
=C3=A2=82=AC=9C do not postpone getting
proper pedals fitted. I did, and it cost me dearly.
Having insured the hull only for the amount I paid for it, it
seems that it
will be more cost effective for the insurance company to scrap
it. So it
seems that I may soon be looking for another KIS TR-1 to buy.
These things do happen in the blink of an eye, so please watch
your step (on
the pedals and everywhere).
Kind regards,
Alfred
--------
_________________________________________
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332363#332="http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List" target=_blank>http://www; -->
Message 8
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
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LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi Rich, Sorry to hear you had a problem, but glad to hear you are recovering.
I will pass the word on to Bill Grote and others at EAA Chapter 723. People
ask me all the time what I have heard from or about you. Keep healing. Larry
---- Richard Trickel <richard_trickel@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hey guys
> Sorry I have been out of the circuit for a while. I got preety sick requiring
some major surgury and am now recovering. I can only say that I am glad that
the problem was here and not while I was in El Salvador. I have been stopping
by work for the last few days and generally giving my advice. No real work yet
but at least getting on the move. The People here have been great leaving me
with no worries.
> There is so much email on the list I would never be able to catch it all.
> Its is good to see everyone communicating. Hope to be back in the air soon myself.
> Rich
>
> --- On Wed, 3/2/11, Keith.Miller@esa.int <Keith.Miller@esa.int> wrote:
>
>
> From: Keith.Miller@esa.int <Keith.Miller@esa.int>
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Are your rudder pedals safe?
> To: kis-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 8:49 AM
>
>
>
> Alfred ,
> sorry to hear about the accident , what damage was done to the KIS ? .f you
> need any advise on repairing it , this forum is the best place to ask for
> help
>
> Going back to your particular KIS. Clearlysome non- standard
> modifications were made during the build , the Cessna steerable Nose gear
> being one of them, which probably has not helped in this particular accident
> , as the castoring nose gear would have straightened it self under power,
> assuming one brake was not locked up .
>
> The choice of a vernier or push pull throttle was a personal choicemade
> by the builder , it was not specified in the build manual., and I suspect
> not many of us have gone that route , as I can see little advantage of such a
> throttle on a single engine andmy inspector in the UK would not have
> agreed to one , after he had a similar experience flying one fitted to a
> Kitfox.
>
> For my KIS , I did not like the offset pedals from the first moment I
> mounted them and sat in the plane, it clearly felt wrong so they were
> modified quite easily by cutting and welding the pilots left Pedal and
> Co-pilots right pedal exactly in the opposite direction , this eliminates
> the off set feeling completely Plus as OC mentions adding aluminium
> plates to the pedals to make them easier to find and operate
>
> I do not remember the builder of your KIS participating to this forum ,
> which is a pity since most of this was discussed over the years ,
>
> Keith
>
>
>
>
> From: "BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
>
> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>
> Date: 01/03/2011 16:06
>
> Subject: KIS-List: Are your rudder pedals safe?
>
> Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Fellow KIS owners,
>
> Now that the formalities have been dealt with, I can share with you that I
> had the misfortune to be involved in a hapless accident on the ground last
> week. I would like to share my experience with other KIS TR-1 owners; perhaps
> it can help prevent a similar incident.
>
> A copy of section 16 of the aircraft accident reporting form below conveys
> the essential information.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 16 YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THE CAUSE
> My right foot slipped off the starboard rudder pedal at crucial moment whilst
> straightening out the steering nose wheel upon commencing the second
> stage/leg of a taxiing manoeuvre intended to take me away from the
> disembarkation area. Despite a tightly strapped full harness, the unexpected
> forward lurch of right hip and shoulder resulted in an inadvertent knock-on
> to the throttle, increasing the engine rpm setting substantially beyond my
> self-imposed limit for taxiing on tarmac. To fill up the mug of misfortune,
> the uppers of my shoe heel caught on the rear edge of the starboard pedal or
> brake hinge upon pull-back, effectively locking in a turn to port side whilst
> also rendering me incapable of braking and/or steering effectively. Three
> seconds later, with foot still stuck, it was all over with two aircraft
> substantially damaged and probably destinied to be written off.
>
> Safety factors: (specifically relevant to other KIS TR-1 owners)
> 1) Rudder pedals should be aligned squarely with pilots hips,
> not offset at an angle inboard. The vertical angle of rudder and brake pedal
> should allow full surface contact with pilots foot at all times and pedal
> surfaces should have high friction coefficient.
>
> 2) The release mechanism on a vernier throttle should be operated
> by pulling action on a bell shaped slider or finger hook at the rear of the
> throttle knob (as on automatic gear shift levers of many vehicles) so as to
> automatically enable reduction in power when pilot pulls on the throttle
> control mechanism from the rear. Activating the release mechanism by
> depressing a knob from the front allows for inadvertent escalation in power
> by knock-on at front of the throttle control, whereas it does not facilitate
> reduction in power when pilot tries to pull/tug it the throttle outwards in
> an emergency situation.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> The accident resulted in the destruction of two aircraft, mine and another
> which was parked. Fortunately, I did adhere to my rule not to start up or
> taxi when there are people moving around airside and by Gods grace I
> escaped with nothing but a headache and a few scratches.
>
> Please take the time to critically re-inspect your rudder pedal configuration
> - I suspect many of you have the same smooth and rather skimpy pedals which
> my aircraft is fitted with. If it is at all possible that your rudder pedals
> could enable/allow the same accident to happen do not postpone getting
> proper pedals fitted. I did, and it cost me dearly.
>
> Having insured the hull only for the amount I paid for it, it seems that it
> will be more cost effective for the insurance company to scrap it. So it
> seems that I may soon be looking for another KIS TR-1 to buy.
>
> These things do happen in the blink of an eye, so please watch your step (on
> the pedals and everywhere).
>
> Kind regards,
> Alfred
>
> --------
> _________________________________________
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332363#332363
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> S WEB FORUMS -
> on Web Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Are your rudder pedals safe? |
Hi Alfred,
Sorry to hear about your accident but glad to hear no one was hurt!
Please add me to the camp that thinks a vernier on the throttle is a bad idea.
Reducing throttle should not require 2 actions.
Some builders have cut off the inward turned outboard rudder pedal tube and rewelded
it so that it is outboard pointing. This allows the outboard rudder pedal
to farther outboard so that they can be centered. This will increase stress
on the part so really this whole tube assembly should be rebuilt or at least
reinforced.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
>From: BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
>Sent: Mar 1, 2011 10:04 AM
>To: kis-list@matronics.com
>Subject: KIS-List: Are your rudder pedals safe?
>
>
>Fellow KIS owners,
>
>Now that the formalities have been dealt with, I can share with you that I had
the misfortune to be involved in a hapless accident on the ground last week.
I would like to share my experience with other KIS TR-1 owners; perhaps it can
help prevent a similar incident.
>
>A copy of section 16 of the aircraft accident reporting form below conveys the
essential information.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>16 YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THE CAUSE
>My right foot slipped off the starboard rudder pedal at crucial moment whilst
straightening out the steering nose wheel upon commencing the second stage/leg
of a taxiing manoeuvre intended to take me away from the disembarkation area.
Despite a tightly strapped full harness, the unexpected forward lurch of right
hip and shoulder resulted in an inadvertent knock-on to the throttle, increasing
the engine rpm setting substantially beyond my self-imposed limit for taxiing
on tarmac. To fill up the mug of misfortune, the uppers of my shoe heel caught
on the rear edge of the starboard pedal or brake hinge upon pull-back, effectively
locking in a turn to port side whilst also rendering me incapable of
braking and/or steering effectively. Three seconds later, with foot still stuck,
it was all over with two aircraft substantially damaged and probably destinied
to be written off.
>
>Safety factors: (specifically relevant to other KIS TR-1 owners)
>1) Rudder pedals should be aligned squarely with pilots hips, not offset at an
angle inboard. The vertical angle of rudder and brake pedal should allow full
surface contact with pilots foot at all times and pedal surfaces should have
high friction coefficient.
>
>2) The release mechanism on a vernier throttle should be operated by pulling action
on a bell shaped slider or finger hook at the rear of the throttle knob
(as on automatic gear shift levers of many vehicles) so as to automatically enable
reduction in power when pilot pulls on the throttle control mechanism from
the rear. Activating the release mechanism by depressing a knob from the front
allows for inadvertent escalation in power by knock-on at front of the throttle
control, whereas it does not facilitate reduction in power when pilot tries
to pull/tug it the throttle outwards in an emergency situation.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>The accident resulted in the destruction of two aircraft, mine and another which
was parked. Fortunately, I did adhere to my rule not to start up or taxi when
there are people moving around airside and by Gods grace I escaped with nothing
but a headache and a few scratches.
>
>Please take the time to critically re-inspect your rudder pedal configuration
- I suspect many of you have the same smooth and rather skimpy pedals which my
aircraft is fitted with. If it is at all possible that your rudder pedals could
enable/allow the same accident to happen do not postpone getting proper pedals
fitted. I did, and it cost me dearly.
>
>Having insured the hull only for the amount I paid for it, it seems that it will
be more cost effective for the insurance company to scrap it. So it seems that
I may soon be looking for another KIS TR-1 to buy.
>
>These things do happen in the blink of an eye, so please watch your step (on the
pedals and everywhere).
>
>Kind regards,
> Alfred
>
>--------
>_________________________________________
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332363#332363
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: KIS TR-1 Propeller |
Hi Alfred,
One way to think about how the the propeller has "flat plate" drag is to think
of the propeller without the engine. Imagine you just had a prop mounted to a
shaft at the front of a glider. As you are gliding the prop will be spinning.
Making it spin of course requires some energy. This is where the drag of the
prop comes from. Just to overcome this prop drag you need to put some power
into the prop.
It may also be useful to think about autogyros when thinking about prop disk drag.
So, depending on many factors, a larger prop is not always better. In general
a larger prop is better at lower speed and a smaller prop is better at higher
speed.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
>From: BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
>Sent: Feb 28, 2011 8:08 PM
>To: kis-list@matronics.com
>Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS TR-1 Propeller
>
>
>Hi OC,
>
>Thanks for the info on your propeller performance.
>
>Using the integrated airframe and propeller performance model which I created
some weeks ago now, I have already determined that the best solution for me will
be a 67 x 67 prop. Such propeller will also function optimally at 2300 rpm
at 7500 feet for cruising. According to Lonnie the P-tip with 67 inch pitch will
flex to such an extent under load that it will effectively present a 63 inch
pitch during take-off/climb.
>
>By the way, I found it puzzling that the Prince website talks about the propeller
diameter being a factor in the flat plate drag of the aircraft. Because the
propeller produces netto thrust which increases quadratically with diameter
that statement initially failed to compute in my mind. On the other hand however,
propeller parasitic losses do increase with diameter and rpm - so perhaps
they are implicitly lumping propeller parasitic losses into the overall zero lift
drag coefficient for the aircraft (and thereby also into the flat plate area).
I have not encountered such point of view before, but it is the only interpretation
which makes sense to me. One has to be very careful with that approach
though, because the airspeed multiplier by which drag converts into power
is of course completely different for the propeller and airframe.
>
>It remains to obtain torque and thrust curves for a 67 x 67 propeller from Lonnie
Prince and his team to confirm that my postulated propeller blade model is
not too optimistic in terms of performance - nor too conservative.
>
>Kind regards,
> Alfred
>
>--------
>_________________________________________
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332343#332343
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Are your rudder pedals safe? |
Thank you everyone for commiserations expressed.
I am of course thoroughly gutted and miserable about the whole debacle, but spunk
is nonetheless slowly seeping back into the spine. Tomorrow we shall take a
serious look at the possibility of repairing the plane.
So very glad to hear that you are on the mend Rich! You are right, it does take
a lot to total her. You should see the other guy and he was all metal. Suffice
to say I now have a greatly increased respect and appreciation for the strength
of a composite plane.
Since the engine will need a shock-load inspection anyway Ill have it zero-timed
in case we decide to repair her. The engine mounting and firewall seemed unperturbed
on initial inspection. For the airframe we have two primary challenges
(unless others come to light tomorrow).
1) The LAA (PFA) here may argue that the spar was stressed to some extent to prove
the integrity of the wing is a tricky business at the best of times. Hence
Im all the more glad to see you back on the forum Rich. Your opinion will carry
considerable clout with the LAA. Since the wing tanks are not leaking I am
thinking it cant be too bad, but what do I know? :o)
2) I shall be in need of a new windscreen because the chewed-up elevator of the
Cessna came slicing through mine. (Im growing a beard now as that was as close
a shave as I want to have for quite some time.)
The port hatch is complete unhinged hence my headache and the instrument panel
is dislodged, but both those should fairly straightforward to fix. With the
collective knowledge and experience of everyone on this forum decisions regarding
the best way forward will surely be greatly facilitated. For instance,
a few weeks before the accident I spoke to a KIS owner here who described his
deregistered KIS as bent. Quite likely that parts of his plane could be re-usable
and Ill follow that up. (He is now building a Glastar.)
John (Jackson), I would very much like to discuss the options you mentioned. Could
you please send your contact details via direct email?
And thank you also to Keith (Miller) for the tip about fixing the alignment of
the rudder pedals. Given opportunity, I shall implement that together with OCs
pedal mod.
In case we decide to investigate the repair options further after tomorrows inspection
I shall open a new thread for that.
Thanks again and best regards to all.
- Alfred
--------
_________________________________________
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332579#332579
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: KIS TR-1 Propeller |
Thanks Mark, so understood. That's why I said the prop has 'netto' thrust with
the drag you refer to already subsumed/eliminated when thrust is produced by the
prop.
Different of course during deceleration, dive, idle and (god forbid) engine failure.
Regard,
Alfred
--------
_________________________________________
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332581#332581
Message 13
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|
Subject: | Re: Are your rudder pedals safe? |
Hi Alfred,
=C2-
I'm sure if you provide some pictures you will get lots of advise on how to
fix.=C2-
=C2-
The new windshield should be easy.=C2- The company that has the molds is
Aircraft Windshield Company, 562-430-8108 in the Los Angeles area.
=C2-
What kind of engine do you have?
=C2-
Scott
--- On Wed, 3/2/11, BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com> wrote:
From: BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
Subject: KIS-List: Re: Are your rudder pedals safe?
Thank you everyone for commiserations expressed.
I am of course thoroughly gutted and miserable about the whole debacle, but
spunk is nonetheless slowly seeping back into the spine. Tomorrow we shall
take a serious look at the possibility of repairing the plane.
So very glad to hear that you are on the mend Rich!=C2- You are right, it
does take a lot to total her. You should see the other guy =C3=A2=82=AC
=9C and he was all metal. Suffice to say I now have a greatly increas
ed respect and appreciation for the strength of a composite plane.
Since the engine will need a shock-load inspection anyway I=C3=A2=82=AC
=84=A2ll have it zero-timed in case we decide to repair her. The engine
mounting and firewall seemed unperturbed on initial inspection. For the air
frame we have two primary challenges (unless others come to light tomorrow)
.
1)=C2-=C2-=C2- The LAA (PFA) here may argue that the spar was stresse
d to some extent =C3=A2=82=AC=9C to prove the integrity of the win
g is a tricky business at the best of times. Hence I=C3=A2=82=AC=84
=A2m all the more glad to see you back on the forum Rich. Your opinion will
carry considerable clout with the LAA. Since the wing tanks are not leakin
g I am thinking it can=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t be too bad, but what do I k
now? :o)
2)=C2-=C2-=C2- I shall be in need of a new windscreen because the che
wed-up elevator of the Cessna came slicing through mine. (I=C3=A2=82=AC
=84=A2m growing a beard now as that was as close a shave as I want to ha
ve for quite some time.)
The port hatch is complete unhinged =C3=A2=82=AC=9C hence my heada
che =C3=A2=82=AC=9C and the instrument panel is dislodged, but bot
h those should=C2- fairly straightforward to fix.=C2-=C2-=C2-With t
he collective knowledge and experience of everyone on this forum decisions
regarding the best way forward will surely be greatly facilitated. For inst
ance, a few weeks before the accident I spoke to a KIS owner here who descr
ibed his deregistered KIS as =C3=A2=82=AC=CB=9Cbent=C3=A2=82=AC=84
=A2. Quite likely that parts of his plane could be re-usable and I=C3=A2
=82=AC=84=A2ll follow that up. (He is now building a Glastar.)
John (Jackson), I would very much like to discuss the options you mentioned
. Could you please send your contact details via direct email?
And thank you also to Keith (Miller) for the tip about fixing the alignment
of the rudder pedals. Given opportunity, I shall implement that together w
ith OC=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s pedal mod.
In case we decide to investigate the repair options further after tomorrow
=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s inspection I shall open a new thread for that.
Thanks again and best regards to all.
-=C2-=C2-=C2- Alfred
--------
_________________________________________
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332579#332579
S WEB FORUMS -
on Web Site -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
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