---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/04/11: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:25 AM - Re: IO-240B With the 15V 60A TCM altinator (Keith.Miller@esa.int) 2. 02:10 AM - Re: IO-240B With the 15V 60A TCM altinator (helixaviation@googlemail.com) 3. 02:22 AM - Re: IO-240B With the 15V 60A TCM alternator (Keith.Miller@esa.int) 4. 03:45 AM - Re: oops (BlueSkyFlier) 5. 04:26 AM - Zero timing a O-240-E engine (BlueSkyFlier) 6. 04:40 AM - Re: TRI - 1 (BlueSkyFlier) 7. 05:42 AM - Re: Zero timing a O-240-E engine (Keith.Miller@esa.int) 8. 05:49 AM - PORT SIDE FAIRING () 9. 06:05 AM - Re: Zero timing a O-240-E engine () 10. 07:44 AM - Re: Zero timing a O-240-E engine (F. Tim Yoder) 11. 07:50 AM - Re: IO-240B With the 15V 60A TCM altinator (F. Tim Yoder) 12. 08:54 AM - Re: Zero timing a O-240-E engine (BlueSkyFlier) 13. 09:47 AM - Re: IO-240B With the 15V 60A TCM altinator (helixaviation@googlemail.com) 14. 09:58 AM - Re: IO-240B With the 15V 60A TCM altinator (F. Tim Yoder) 15. 12:33 PM - Re: KIS TR-1 Propeller (BlueSkyFlier) 16. 12:33 PM - Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING (kent pyle) 17. 12:41 PM - Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING (BlueSkyFlier) 18. 01:01 PM - Re: Zero timing a O-240-E engine (Galin Hernandez) 19. 01:27 PM - Re: Zero timing a O-240-E engine (ALFRED ROSA) 20. 01:41 PM - Easier browsing of the KIS list (BlueSkyFlier) 21. 02:36 PM - Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING () 22. 03:06 PM - Re: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING (F. Tim Yoder) 23. 03:53 PM - Re: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING (Robert Reed) 24. 04:12 PM - Re: Zero timing a O-240-E engine (Galin Hernandez) 25. 05:43 PM - Re: Zero timing a O-240-E engine (BlueSkyFlier) 26. 08:25 PM - Re: Zero timing a O-240-E engine () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:49 AM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: IO-240B With the 15V 60A TCM altinator From: Keith.Miller@esa.int Tim that is not what I want to hear , my IO240B is just coming up to 400hrs , but thanks for sharing it with us anyway , at least the shock will be less when it eventually happens to mine Keith From: "F. Tim Yoder" To: Date: 04/03/2011 04:09 Subject: KIS-List: IO-240B With the 15V 60A TCM altinator Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com FYI, I was fly a couple weeks ago and lost The Alt. I determined that the Alt. was not producing power and removed it. I am sure Cont. could have made that job harder if they tried. I found the Alt. was ok but the Alt. Drive Coupling Assembly (P/N 635796) was broken, the Lord rubber mount came loose from the ss shroud. Better if the Alt was bad. The bad news is that Cont. wants $2077.00 for this part, no, the engine is not included! The not so bad news is that Drake rebuilds them and they can be had for $600.00 to $900.00, with a good core. I only had a little over 400 hrs. on the engine. I had to remove a Slick Mag to get the Alt. out, so I had the mag 500 hr service done. New points and replaced a bad gear. So for only a $1000.00 + I now have lots of amps & volts. Hope you have the "good" ones! Tim ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:10:21 AM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: IO-240B With the 15V 60A TCM altinator From: "helixaviation@googlemail.com" Keith. My alternator drive coupling failed after about 50 hours. I put it down to kickback on startup and had the mags retarded a little. The original coupling was elastomeric and had failed in sheer. I managed to locate an alternative style that was mechanical but has rubber inserts for shock absorbtion. I got it second hand and from memory only cost about 100. John -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Keith.Miller@esa.int wrote: ore. I only had a little over 400 hrs. on the engine. I had to remove a Slick Mag to get the Alt. out, so I had the mag 500 hr service done. New points and replaced a bad gear. So for only a $1000.00 + I now have lots of amps & volts. Hope you have the "good" ones! Tim_____________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:22:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: IO-240B With the 15V 60A TCM alternator From: Keith.Miller@esa.int Hopefully mine will last a bit longer , but good to know that there are some options From: "helixaviation@googlemail.com" To: kis-list@matronics.com Date: 04/03/2011 11:11 Subject: Re: KIS-List: IO-240B With the 15V 60A TCM altinator Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com Keith. My alternator drive coupling failed after about 50 hours. I put it down to kickback on startup and had the mags retarded a little. The original coupling was elastomeric and had failed in sheer. I managed to locate an alternative style that was mechanical but has rubber inserts for shock absorbtion. I got it second hand and from memory only cost about 100. John -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Keith.Miller@esa.int wrote: want to hear , my IO240B is just coming up to 400hrs , but thanks for sharing it with us anyway , at least the shock will be less when it eventually happens to mine Keith From: "F. Tim Yoder" To: Date: 04/03/2011 04:09 Subject: KIS-List: IO-240B With the 15V 60A TCM altinator Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com FYI, I was fly a couple weeks ago and lost The Alt. I determined that the Alt. was not producing power and removed it. I am sure Cont. could have made that job harder if they tried. I found the Alt. was ok but the Alt. Drive Coupling Assembly (P/N 635796) was broken, the Lord rubber mount came loose from the ss shroud. Better if the Alt was bad. The bad news is that Cont. wants $2077.00 for this part, no, the engine is not included! The not so bad news is that Drake rebuilds them and they can be had for $600.00 to $900.00, with a good core. I only had a little over 400 hrs. on the engine. I had to remove a Slick Mag to get the Alt. out, so I had the mag 500 hr service done. New points and replaced a bad gear. So for only a $1000.00 + I now have lots of amps & volts. Hope you have the "good" ones! ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:45:04 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: oops From: "BlueSkyFlier" Hi Rich, Chuckle ... yes, going in a circle is a good way to get nowhere fast :O) Judged by the eye, linear speed in the arc was 8-10 miles/hr when left wingtip connected the side of Cessna's tail section. The wing did flex backward a bit and the hinge of the flap actuator was bent approx half an inch out of line. The wing will have to come off anyway because flap actuator mechanism needs work and damage to bottom part of port side fairing is such that it needs to be replaced/rebuilt. If you know where one can still get that fairing part plse let me know? Good news is that there are no cracks whatsoever in fuselage or spar box attachment (which was built much stronger than specified) Firewall and engine mount is fine too. The plane had a huge aluminium spinner which absorbed most of the impact and shock. Besides fixable damage to left wing tip front corner, other airframe damage is constrained to wing fairings and rudder actuator hinge mechanism. Photos will follow once insurance matters are resolved. The list of glass fibre repair items include: 1) cowling top and bottom left front side 2) left wing fairing (extensive) 3) right wing fairing (negligible) 3) starboard side of tail fin (scratches and one small perforation) 4) left wing tip front corner 5) fibre panel to front of left flap actuator hinge has a hole in it. 6) topside of left wing has scratches and a shallow dent just to inside fuel cap but is not pulverised or cracked (from sliding underneath the tail section of Cessna) 7) port hatch to be re-attached and scratches on top side of cabin to be mended 8) windscreen to be replaced Rudder modifications, zero timed engine and complete repaint to round it all off. Regards, Alfred -------- _________________________________________ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332729#332729 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:26:58 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Zero timing a O-240-E engine From: "BlueSkyFlier" Hi Scott, You wrote: "The new windshield should be easy. The company that has the molds is Aircraft Windshield Company, 562-430-8108 in the Los Angeles area. What kind of engine do you have?" Thank you for the windshield info. I shall contact them forthwith. My engine is a Rolls Royce Continental O-240-E as originally fitted to Cessna FRM-150 Aerobats out of the Reims factory in France. More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_O-240 Does anyone have knowledge of a reliable shop where I can have the engine zero-timed for a fair price? Regards, Alfred -------- _________________________________________ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332731#332731 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:30 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: TRI - 1 From: "BlueSkyFlier" While we are in memory lane ... Attached a picture of Rich and his wife with the first KIS plane. And a good plane it is too. Thanks Rich! I was to still too young at the time to be building one but I sure do enjoy the way it flies. And so will a whole second generation of owners. - Alfred -------- _________________________________________ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332732#332732 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/original_kis_plane__rich_trickle_353.jpg ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: Zero timing a O-240-E engine From: Keith.Miller@esa.int Alfred when you get a price for the windshield , please share the info . also Some time back we had some discussions on the thickness and the material, maybe look in the archives Keith From: "BlueSkyFlier" To: kis-list@matronics.com Date: 04/03/2011 13:28 Subject: KIS-List: Zero timing a O-240-E engine Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com Hi Scott, You wrote: "The new windshield should be easy. The company that has the molds is Aircraft Windshield Company, 562-430-8108 in the Los Angeles area. What kind of engine do you have?" Thank you for the windshield info. I shall contact them forthwith. My engine is a Rolls Royce Continental O-240-E as originally fitted to Cessna FRM-150 Aerobats out of the Reims factory in France. More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_O-240 Does anyone have knowledge of a reliable shop where I can have the engine zero-timed for a fair price? Regards, Alfred -------- _________________________________________ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332731#332731 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:17 AM PST US From: Subject: KIS-List: PORT SIDE FAIRING 3/4/2011 Hello Alfred, You wrote: ".....damage to bottom part of port side fairing is such that it needs to be replaced/rebuilt." and "If you know where one can still get that fairing part plse let me know?" It is a bit difficult to give specific advice on the part involved without seeing a picture of the damage, but please let me comment in anticipation. A) The original kit provided bottom of the wing fairings did not work at all for me. My solution was to position the fuselage upside down and install the wing. B) Then I bridged the entire area to be faired with multiple strips of tape that epoxy would not stick to. C) Then I put a few layers of epoxy soaked fiberglass on the tape and let it cure. D) Then I removed the fairly stiff leather like piece of fiberglass fairing, removed the tape covering the gap, trimmed the fairing edges, and used that layup as my lower wing fairing. 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." PS: Keep in mind that Julian Bond did extensive wing fairing mods to his KIS TR-1. I have attached just one of the pictures that are available. =========================================================== Hi Rich, Chuckle ... yes, going in a circle is a good way to get nowhere fast :O) Judged by the eye, linear speed in the arc was 8-10 miles/hr when left wingtip connected the side of Cessna's tail section. The wing did flex backward a bit and the hinge of the flap actuator was bent approx half an inch out of line. The wing will have to come off anyway because flap actuator mechanism needs work and damage to bottom part of port side fairing is such that it needs to be replaced/rebuilt. If you know where one can still get that fairing part plse let me know? Good news is that there are no cracks whatsoever in fuselage or spar box attachment (which was built much stronger than specified) Firewall and engine mount is fine too. The plane had a huge aluminium spinner which absorbed most of the impact and shock. Besides fixable damage to left wing tip front corner, other airframe damage is constrained to wing fairings and rudder actuator hinge mechanism. Photos will follow once insurance matters are resolved. The list of glass fibre repair items include: 1) cowling top and bottom left front side 2) left wing fairing (extensive) 3) right wing fairing (negligible) 3) starboard side of tail fin (scratches and one small perforation) 4) left wing tip front corner 5) fibre panel to front of left flap actuator hinge has a hole in it. 6) topside of left wing has scratches and a shallow dent just to inside fuel cap but is not pulverised or cracked (from sliding underneath the tail section of Cessna) 7) port hatch to be re-attached and scratches on top side of cabin to be mended 8) windscreen to be replaced Rudder modifications, zero timed engine and complete repaint to round it all off. Regards, Alfred ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:00 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: KIS-List: Zero timing a O-240-E engine 3/4/2011 Hello Alfred, You wrote: "Does anyone have knowledge of a reliable shop where I can have the engine zero-timed for a fair price?" I don't know how the regulations read in your part of the world, but in the USA the only entity that is authorized to return an engine to zero time through a remanufacturing or rebuilding process is the original manufacturer of the engine. Both Lycoming and TCM have service bulletins published on the subject of prop strikes or engine sudden stoppages. I will dig them out and post them if you are interested. 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." ============================================================ From: "BlueSkyFlier" Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 7:24 AM Subject: KIS-List: Zero timing a O-240-E engine > > > Hi Scott, > > You wrote: "The new windshield should be easy. The company that has the > molds is Aircraft Windshield Company, 562-430-8108 in the Los Angeles > area. What kind of engine do you have?" > > Thank you for the windshield info. I shall contact them forthwith. > > My engine is a Rolls Royce Continental O-240-E as originally fitted to > Cessna FRM-150 Aerobats out of the Reims factory in France. > > More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_O-240 > > Does anyone have knowledge of a reliable shop where I can have the engine > zero-timed for a fair price? > > Regards, > Alfred ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:07 AM PST US From: "F. Tim Yoder" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Zero timing a O-240-E engine I think the original was 1/8", I had Rich get me one 3/16". If memory serves, that was in 1993. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 6:32 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Zero timing a O-240-E engine > > Alfred > > when you get a price for the windshield , please share the info . also > Some > time back we had some discussions on the thickness and the material, maybe > look in the archives > > Keith > > > From: "BlueSkyFlier" > > To: kis-list@matronics.com > > Date: 04/03/2011 13:28 > > Subject: KIS-List: Zero timing a O-240-E engine > > Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com > > > > > Hi Scott, > > You wrote: "The new windshield should be easy. The company that has the > molds is Aircraft Windshield Company, 562-430-8108 in the Los Angeles > area. > What kind of engine do you have?" > > Thank you for the windshield info. I shall contact them forthwith. > > My engine is a Rolls Royce Continental O-240-E as originally fitted to > Cessna > FRM-150 Aerobats out of the Reims factory in France. > > More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_O-240 > > Does anyone have knowledge of a reliable shop where I can have the engine > zero-timed for a fair price? > > Regards, > Alfred > > -------- > _________________________________________ > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332731#332731 > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:02 AM PST US From: "F. Tim Yoder" Subject: Re: KIS-List: IO-240B With the 15V 60A TCM altinator John, Do you have part no's for the replacement parts? Thanks, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: helixaviation@googlemail.com To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 3:08 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: IO-240B With the 15V 60A TCM altinator Keith. My alternator drive coupling failed after about 50 hours. I put it down to kickback on startup and had the mags retarded a little. The original coupling was elastomeric and had failed in sheer. I managed to locate an alternative style that was mechanical but has rubber inserts for shock absorbtion. I got it second hand and from memory only cost about =C2=A3100. John -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Keith.Miller@esa.int wrote: what I want to hear , my IO240B is just coming up to 400hrs , but thanks for sharing it with us anyway , at least the shock will be less when it eventually happens to mine Keith From: "F. Tim Yoder" To: Date: 04/03/2011 04:09 Subject: KIS-List: IO-240B With the 15V 60A TCM altinator Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com FYI, I was fly a couple weeks ago and lost The Alt. I determined that the Alt. was not producing power and removed it. I am sure Cont. could have made that job harder if they tried. I found the Alt. was ok but the Alt. Drive Coupling Assembly (P/N 635796) was broken, the Lord rubber mount came loose from the ss shroud. Better if the Alt was bad. The bad news is that Cont. wants $2077.00 for this part, no, the engine is not included! The not so bad news is that Drake rebuilds them and they can be had for $600.00 to $900.00, with a good core. I only had a little over 400 hrs. on the engine. I had to remove a Slick Mag to get the Alt. out, so I had the mag 500 hr service done. New points and replaced a bad gear. So for only a $1000.00 + I now have lots of amps & volts. Hope you have the "good" ones! ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:03 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: Zero timing a O-240-E engine From: "BlueSkyFlier" OC, The manufacturer info about prop strikes you mentioned earlier will be most welcome. I expect that there will be duly licensed shops which can also zero-time an engine. There has been talk of Norvik, but I have not had time to look that up yet. Regards, Alfred -------- _________________________________________ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332751#332751 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: IO-240B With the 15V 60A TCM altinator From: "helixaviation@googlemail.com" Tim. I thought it lasted 50 hours, after checking the engine logbook it actually lasted 225 hours! Shows how quickly the pain dulls after the passage of time. I removed part no. 635796 and replaced it with p/ns 531325, 530407, 632050, 653982 and 653983. John -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. "F. Tim Yoder" wrote: John, Do you have part no's for the replacement parts? Thanks, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: helixaviation@googlemail.com Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 3:08 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: IO-240B With the 15V 60A TCM altinator Keith. My alternator drive coupling failed after about 50 hours. I put it down to kickback on startup and had the mags retarded a little. The original coupling was elastomeric and had failed in sheer. I managed to locate an alternative style that was mechanical but has rubber inserts for shock absorbtion. I got it second hand and from memory only cost about 100. John -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Keith.Miller@esa.int wrote: ore. I only had a little over 400 hrs. on the engine. I had to remove a Slick Mag to get the Alt. out, so I had the mag 500 hr service done. New points and replaced a bad gear. So for only a $1000.00 + I now have lots of amps & volts. Hope you have the "good" ones! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:21 AM PST US From: "F. Tim Yoder" Subject: Re: KIS-List: IO-240B With the 15V 60A TCM altinator Thank you John, I will keep that info on file, as I am sure others will. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: helixaviation@googlemail.com To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 10:45 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: IO-240B With the 15V 60A TCM altinator Tim. I thought it lasted 50 hours, after checking the engine logbook it actually lasted 225 hours! Shows how quickly the pain dulls after the passage of time. I removed part no. 635796 and replaced it with p/ns 531325, 530407, 632050, 653982 and 653983. John -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. "F. Tim Yoder" wrote: John, Do you have part no's for the replacement parts? Thanks, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: helixaviation@googlemail.com To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 3:08 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: IO-240B With the 15V 60A TCM altinator Keith. My alternator drive coupling failed after about 50 hours. I put it down to kickback on startup and had the mags retarded a little. The original coupling was elastomeric and had failed in sheer. I managed to locate an alternative style that was mechanical but has rubber inserts for shock absorbtion. I got it second hand and from memory only cost about =C2=A3100. John -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Keith.Miller@esa.int wrote: not what I want to hear , my IO240B is just coming up to 400hrs , but thanks for sharing it with us anyway , at least the shock will be less when it eventually happens to mine Keith From: "F. Tim Yoder" To: Date: 04/03/2011 04:09 Subject: KIS-List: IO-240B With the 15V 60A TCM altinator Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com FYI, I was fly a couple weeks ago and lost The Alt. I determined that the Alt. was not producing power and removed it. I am sure Cont. could have made that job harder if they tried. I found the Alt. was ok but the Alt. Drive Coupling Assembly (P/N 635796) was broken, the Lord rubber mount came loose from the ss shroud. Better if the Alt was bad. The bad news is that Cont. wants $2077.00 for this part, no, the engine is not included! The not so bad news is that Drake rebuilds them and they can be had for $600.00 to $900.00, with a good core. I only had a little over 400 hrs. on the engine. I had to remove a Slick Mag to get the Alt. out, so I had the mag 500 hr service done. New points and replaced a bad gear. So for only a $1000.00 + I now have lots of amps & volts. Hope you have the "good" ones! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?KIS-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:23 PM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS TR-1 Propeller From: "BlueSkyFlier" Thank you for the pointer Tim. I looked it up and there appears to be close links between Catto and Lipps. So, for replacing my now demised Chris Lodge prop I shall consider Catto, Prince P-tip and Idrovario as candidates. Catto and Prince props are reasonably priced - don't have info on Idrovario pricing range yet. Regards, Alfred -------- _________________________________________ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332780#332780 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:28 PM PST US From: "kent pyle" Subject: Re: KIS-List: PORT SIDE FAIRING Alfred, first of all. I am sorry to hear bout your mishap and your resolve to fix everything back is a good thing. My kit did not come with the farings, so I made my own by using the top of the wing as the pattern. I layed tape on the surface so the glue would not stick. Then 4 layers of fiberglass cloth. I epoxyed glued that and let it in place for a couple of days. When I peeled the fibeglass from the upper surface, and trial fitted it in place it fit suprisingly well considering the curvatures wee not the same. After using #8 counterset screws every 4 inches on both sides, it conforms to the contures very well. Rich was able to get me a replacement faring. Kent ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 7:47 AM Subject: KIS-List: PORT SIDE FAIRING > 3/4/2011 > > Hello Alfred, You wrote: ".....damage to bottom part of port side fairing > is > such that it needs to be replaced/rebuilt." > > and > > "If you know where one can still get that fairing part plse let me know?" > > It is a bit difficult to give specific advice on the part involved without > seeing a picture of the damage, but please let me comment in anticipation. > > A) The original kit provided bottom of the wing fairings did not work at > all > for me. My solution was to position the fuselage upside down and install > the > wing. > > B) Then I bridged the entire area to be faired with multiple strips of > tape > that epoxy would not stick to. > > C) Then I put a few layers of epoxy soaked fiberglass on the tape and let > it > cure. > > D) Then I removed the fairly stiff leather like piece of fiberglass > fairing, > removed the tape covering the gap, trimmed the fairing edges, and used > that > layup as my lower wing fairing. > > 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort > to > gather and understand knowledge." > > PS: Keep in mind that Julian Bond did extensive wing fairing mods to his > KIS > TR-1. I have attached just one of the pictures that are available. > > =========================================================== > > > > Hi Rich, > > Chuckle ... yes, going in a circle is a good way to get nowhere fast :O) > > Judged by the eye, linear speed in the arc was 8-10 miles/hr when left > wingtip connected the side of Cessna's tail section. The wing did flex > backward a bit and the hinge of the flap actuator was bent approx half an > inch out of line. The wing will have to come off anyway because flap > actuator mechanism needs work and damage to bottom part of port side > fairing > is such that it needs to be replaced/rebuilt. > > If you know where one can still get that fairing part plse let me know? > > Good news is that there are no cracks whatsoever in fuselage or spar box > attachment (which was built much stronger than specified) Firewall and > engine mount is fine too. The plane had a huge aluminium spinner which > absorbed most of the impact and shock. > > Besides fixable damage to left wing tip front corner, other airframe > damage > is constrained to wing fairings and rudder actuator hinge mechanism. > Photos > will follow once insurance matters are resolved. > > The list of glass fibre repair items include: > > 1) cowling top and bottom left front side > 2) left wing fairing (extensive) > 3) right wing fairing (negligible) > 3) starboard side of tail fin (scratches and one small perforation) > 4) left wing tip front corner > 5) fibre panel to front of left flap actuator hinge has a hole in it. > 6) topside of left wing has scratches and a shallow dent just to inside > fuel > cap but is not pulverised or cracked (from sliding underneath the tail > section of Cessna) > 7) port hatch to be re-attached and scratches on top side of cabin to be > mended > 8) windscreen to be replaced > > Rudder modifications, zero timed engine and complete repaint to round it > all > off. > > Regards, > Alfred > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 13:34:00 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:41:40 PM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING From: "BlueSkyFlier" Thanks OC. That confirms the thoughts I had. The difficult part is getting the plane upside down with gear and all :D. Empty weight without engine is ~ 720 lb. but nothing is impossible. I could use inflatable mattress to put pressure on layups from below. - Alfred -------- _________________________________________ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332784#332784 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:01:02 PM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Zero timing a O-240-E engine I can highly recommend an engine shop (Zephyr Engines) here in the USA. They did the prop strike rebuild on my engine (Lycoming O-360) 250hrs ago and they did an awesome job. Galin On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:24 AM, BlueSkyFlier wrote: > > > > Hi Scott, > > You wrote: "The new windshield should be easy. The company that has the > molds is Aircraft Windshield Company, 562-430-8108 in the Los Angeles area. > What kind of engine do you have?" > > Thank you for the windshield info. I shall contact them forthwith. > > My engine is a Rolls Royce Continental O-240-E as originally fitted to > Cessna FRM-150 Aerobats out of the Reims factory in France. > > More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_O-240 > > Does anyone have knowledge of a reliable shop where I can have the engine > zero-timed for a fair price? > > Regards, > Alfred > > -------- > _________________________________________ > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332731#332731 > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:27:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: Zero timing a O-240-E engine From: ALFRED ROSA *Galin,* * * *You need to wait another 1,750 hours before you declare an awesome job.* * * *Al* On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Galin Hernandez wrote: > I can highly recommend an engine shop (Zephyr Engines) here in the USA. > They did the prop strike rebuild on my engine (Lycoming O-360) 250hrs ago > and they did an awesome job. > > Galin > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:24 AM, BlueSkyFlier wrote: > >> bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com> >> >> Hi Scott, >> >> You wrote: "The new windshield should be easy. The company that has the >> molds is Aircraft Windshield Company, 562-430-8108 in the Los Angeles area. >> What kind of engine do you have?" >> >> Thank you for the windshield info. I shall contact them forthwith. >> >> My engine is a Rolls Royce Continental O-240-E as originally fitted to >> Cessna FRM-150 Aerobats out of the Reims factory in France. >> >> More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_O-240 >> >> Does anyone have knowledge of a reliable shop where I can have the engine >> zero-timed for a fair price? >> >> Regards, >> Alfred >> >> -------- >> _________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.========= >> rowse, Chat, FAQ, >> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List" target="_blank">http://w== >> http://forums.m >> le, List Admin. >> ==== >> >> >> >> > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:23 PM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Easier browsing of the KIS list From: "BlueSkyFlier" Being a newbie to this forum, I only just discovered the easy/convenient way to work through messages in this list. For those who havent tried it yet, take a look at the list via: http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse/kis-list/subject.html --- ordered by subject http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse/kis-list/date.html --- ordered by date http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse/kis-list/author.html --- ordered by author Regards, Alfred -------- _________________________________________ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332793#332793 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:36:11 PM PST US From: Subject: KIS-List: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING 3/4/2011 Hello Alfred, You wrote: 1) "The difficult part is getting the plane upside down with gear and all...." That is very true, but I bet that if you had the engine, nose gear, and wing off (may be a very likely configuration in the process of your repair) the plane could be tipped over going nose down tail up. It is not that hard to rig sling straps for the fuselage to rest in while upside down. Also consider that one can make epoxy - fiberglass layups onto an overhead surface. It is more difficult than having gravity to help you, but it can be done. 2) "I could use inflatable mattress to put pressure on layups from below." An excellent idea -- thin plywood between the matress and the fiberglass layup with a release surface and peel ply on the plywood could create a very nice fairing surface ready for filling, priming, and painting. OC ==================================================== From: "BlueSkyFlier" Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 3:40 PM Subject: KIS-List: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING > > > Thanks OC. > > That confirms the thoughts I had. The difficult part is getting the plane > upside down with gear and all :D. Empty weight without engine is ~ 720 lb. > but nothing is impossible. > > I could use inflatable mattress to put pressure on layups from below. > > - Alfred ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:06:20 PM PST US From: "F. Tim Yoder" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING I went a different direction with the bottom fairings. I made them out of thin Aluminum sheet and screwed them on. They make large inspection doors and were easy fit. If you are interested I could take some photos and post them. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 3:31 PM Subject: KIS-List: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING > > Hello Alfred, You wrote: > > 1) "The difficult part is getting the plane upside down with gear and > all...." > > That is very true, but I bet that if you had the engine, nose gear, and > wing off (may be a very likely configuration in the process of your > repair) the plane could be tipped over going nose down tail up. It is not > that hard to rig sling straps for the fuselage to rest in while upside > down. > > Also consider that one can make epoxy - fiberglass layups onto an overhead > surface. It is more difficult than having gravity to help you, but it can > be done. > > 2) "I could use inflatable mattress to put pressure on layups from below." > > An excellent idea -- thin plywood between the matress and the fiberglass > layup with a release surface and peel ply on the plywood could create a > very nice fairing surface ready for filling, priming, and painting. > > OC > > ==================================================== > From: "BlueSkyFlier" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 3:40 PM > Subject: KIS-List: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING > > >> >> >> Thanks OC. >> >> That confirms the thoughts I had. The difficult part is getting the plane >> upside down with gear and all :D. Empty weight without engine is ~ 720 >> lb. but nothing is impossible. >> >> I could use inflatable mattress to put pressure on layups from below. >> >> - Alfred > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:05 PM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING Much easier to use some plastic, tape, and vacuum.=0A=0ABob=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_ _______________________________=0AFrom: BlueSkyFlier =0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Fri, March 4, 2011 2:40:31 PM =0ASubject: KIS-List: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING=0A=0A--> KIS-List message poste d by: "BlueSkyFlier" =0A=0AThanks OC.=0A=0AThat confirms the thoughts I had. The difficult part is getting the plane upsid e =0Adown with gear and all :D. Empty weight without engine is ~ 720 lb. bu t nothing =0Ais impossible.=0A=0AI could use inflatable mattress to put pre ssure on layups from below.=0A=0A- Alfred=0A=0A--------=0A_________________ ________________________=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Aht tp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332784#332784=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ============ ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:48 PM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Zero timing a O-240-E engine Well, with Zephyr Engines being rated #1 in the last 3 AOPA polls there are others out there that feel the same as I do. Besides, I can declare and recommend whatever I want even if you don't agree. ;o) Galin On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 3:25 PM, ALFRED ROSA wrote: > *Galin,* > * > * > *You need to wait another 1,750 hours before you declare an awesome job.* > * > * > *Al* > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Galin Hernandez wrote: > >> I can highly recommend an engine shop (Zephyr Engines) here in the USA. >> They did the prop strike rebuild on my engine (Lycoming O-360) 250hrs ago >> and they did an awesome job. >> >> Galin >> >> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:24 AM, BlueSkyFlier wrote: >> >>> bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com> >>> >>> Hi Scott, >>> >>> You wrote: "The new windshield should be easy. The company that has the >>> molds is Aircraft Windshield Company, 562-430-8108 in the Los Angeles area. >>> What kind of engine do you have?" >>> >>> Thank you for the windshield info. I shall contact them forthwith. >>> >>> My engine is a Rolls Royce Continental O-240-E as originally fitted to >>> Cessna FRM-150 Aerobats out of the Reims factory in France. >>> >>> More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_O-240 >>> >>> Does anyone have knowledge of a reliable shop where I can have the engine >>> zero-timed for a fair price? >>> >>> Regards, >>> Alfred >>> >>> -------- >>> _________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.========= >>> rowse, Chat, FAQ, >>> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List" >>> target="_blank">http://w== >>> http://forums.m >>> le, List Admin. >>> ==== >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> * >> >> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:08 PM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: Zero timing a O-240-E engine From: "BlueSkyFlier" After doing my homework I decided to get the work done this side of the pond. After weeding out the bad apples the potential repair shops are: http://www.arrowaviationservices.co.uk/page7.php http://www.nicholsonmclaren.com/ http://norvic.com/en/Lycoming_Continental_Franklin_shockload CFS at Coventry - http://www.cfsaeroproducts.co.uk/engines.html Airspeed at Derby - http://www.derbyaeroclub.com/Airspeed.html Dukeries Aviation, Netherthorpe - Dave Bonsall Netherthorpe, Worksop, Nottinghamshire S80 3JQ, Tel: 01909481802 Multiflight - http://www.multiflight.com/engineering/capabilities-and-approvals.php CSE - http://www.avbuyer.com/PDFs/CSE%20Page%202.pdf As the first three are the closest, one of them will most likely be chosen unless significant price advantage comes from one of the remaining lot - transport costs can easily erode the advantage. Regards, Alfred. -------- _________________________________________ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332825#332825 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:05 PM PST US From: Subject: KIS-List: Re: Zero timing a O-240-E engine 3/4/2011 Hello Alfred, You wrote: 1) "The manufacturer info about prop strikes you mentioned earlier will be most welcome." Please see below links and the attached TCM SB96-11B: http://www.tcmlink.com/fiddefault.aspx?cgroup=MATTITUCK&cpagename=SS http://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/service-bulletins/pdfs/SB533A.pdf 2) "I expect that there will be duly licensed shops which can also zero-time an engine." In the USA this is not true. Here is an extract from US Part 14 CFR (Code of Federal Regulations): "91.421 Rebuilt engine maintenance records. (a) The owner or operator may use a new maintenance record, without previous operating history, for an aircraft engine rebuilt by the manufacturer or by an agency approved by the manufacturer. (b) Each manufacturer or agency that grants zero time to an engine rebuilt by it shall enter in the new record- (1) A signed statement of the date the engine was rebuilt; (2) Each change made as required by airworthiness directives; and (3) Each change made in compliance with manufacturer's service bulletins, if the entry is specifically requested in that bulletin. (c) For the purposes of this section, a rebuilt engine is a used engine that has been completely disassembled, inspected, repaired as necessary, reassembled, tested, and approved in the same manner and to the same tolerances and limits as a new engine with either new or used parts. However, all parts used in it must conform to the production drawing tolerances and limits for new parts or be of approved oversized or undersized dimensions for a new engine." What 91.421 is saying: A} Only a rebuilt (or new) engine gets a new (zero time) maintenance record (engine log book). B} An overhauled engine does not get a new (zero time) maintenance record (engine log book). C} Only the manufacturer or an agency approved by the manufacturer can create a rebuilt engine. Even Teledyne Mattituck Services Inc which is owned by TCM does not use the term rebuilt in any of their literature, but instead uses the term overhauled. I am unaware of any agency in the US that either Lycoming or TCM has approved, other than themselves, to rebuild (zero time) their engines. What do the regulations in your country permit? Here is some additional information on this subject: http://www.mattituck.com/articles/ohterms.htm http://www.lycoming.textron.com/engines/service/zero-time-rebuilt-engines.html 3) "There has been talk of Norvik, but I have not had time to look that up yet." I see only the term overhauled used on their web site: http://norvic.com/en/Aircraft_engine_overhaul_exchange_shockload_repair 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." ======================================================== From: "BlueSkyFlier" Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:52 AM Subject: KIS-List: Re: Zero timing a O-240-E engine > > > OC, > > The manufacturer info about prop strikes you mentioned earlier will be > most welcome. I expect that there will be duly licensed shops which can > also zero-time an engine. There has been talk of Norvik, but I have not > had time to look that up yet. > > Regards, > Alfred ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.