Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:17 AM - Re: Zero timing a O-240-E engine (BlueSkyFlier)
2. 10:20 AM - Re: KIS TR-1 Propeller (BlueSkyFlier)
3. 10:38 AM - Re: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING (Richard Trickel)
4. 11:00 AM - Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING (BlueSkyFlier)
5. 03:44 PM - Bottom wing root covers (F. Tim Yoder)
6. 05:34 PM - Re: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING (Scott Stearns)
7. 06:05 PM - Re: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING (kent pyle)
8. 07:40 PM - Re: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING (Scott Stearns)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Zero timing a O-240-E engine |
Thank you kindly for the references OC. That will come in handy for preparation
of the RFQ.
Sidebar: In my parlance 'zero-timed' means that the engine is returned to a state
where it has another 2000 hours before next manufacturer overhaul. That does
not mean it is re-built or remanufactured, nor does it mean that a new logbook
is created.
Too bad if that terminology doesn't match some book definition. The longest life
you can get on the engine is 2000 hrs, so if you have that in hand you have
zero time (SMOH) on it ... chuckle ... that's why I fly a KIS -- keep it simple
:o)
Cheers and thanks again for the advice.
-- Alfred
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| Subject: | Re: KIS TR-1 Propeller |
Gents,
In late January I created a performance model for the KIS to aid my decision regarding
a new propeller. Having consulted with Mark Ketttering off line I am now
satisfied that the model is realistic.
Attached a view of the results for a particular point on the flight envelope.
There is one big caveat though and I hope the forum can help with that: I need
a power curve for a O-240 or IO-240 engine to ensure that the engine power model
is accurate.
I can only hope that someone on the forum has access to such information.
Anyways, take a look at the results. It seemed to work well enough for my plane
(when it was still flying :? )
Regards,
Alfred
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Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tri_r_kis_airframe__propeller_drag_and_power_model_872.jpg
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING |
Alfred
Make the fairing on the top skin as referred to earlier.- The difference
is minimal and the material is flexible enough to work.- Just trim and pu
t in place.- No need to flip the plane over.
Rich
--- On Fri, 3/4/11, bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
From: bakerocb@cox.net <bakerocb@cox.net>
Subject: KIS-List: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING
3/4/2011
Hello Alfred, You wrote:
1) "The difficult part is getting the plane upside down with gear and all..
.."
That is very true, but I bet that if you had the engine, nose gear,- and
wing off (may be a very likely configuration in the process of your repair)
the plane could be tipped over going nose down tail up. It is not that har
d to rig sling straps for the fuselage to rest in while upside down.
Also consider that one can make epoxy - fiberglass layups onto an overhead
surface. It is more difficult than having gravity to help you, but it can b
e done.
2) "I could use inflatable mattress to put pressure on layups from below."
An excellent idea -- thin plywood between the matress and the fiberglass la
yup with a release surface and peel ply on the plywood could create a very
nice fairing surface ready for filling, priming, and painting.
OC
==
From: "BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 3:40 PM
Subject: KIS-List: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING
m>
>
> Thanks OC.
>
> That confirms the thoughts I had. The difficult part is getting the plane
upside down with gear and all :D. Empty weight without engine is ~ 720 lb.
but nothing is impossible.
>
> I could use inflatable mattress to put pressure on layups from below.
>
> - Alfred
le, List Admin.
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| Subject: | Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING |
Much obliged for the sage advice Rich.
Since the front part of the port upper fairing is also somewhat damaged that makes
a lot of sense. Together with Tim's idea of using thin plate below the wing
I think this repair issue is now resolved.
I'll get a professional to handle the wingtip, dent on topside of the wing and
the tail fin.
The rest is easy enough if I can source a stock 3/16" windscreen from the guys
in Los Alamitos who apparently have the mold.
Regards,
Alfred
--------
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| Subject: | Bottom wing root covers |
Alfred,
These photos are of the bottom of the left wing.
002) From the front to rear.
003) Leading edge to fuselage fairing, the blue tape is at the back edge
of the fairing. The plate is about 3/8" into the underside of the
fairing. That makes a smooth ,secure joint.
004) Trailing edge, the blue tape is at the end of the plate. You can
see the hole for the flap attach horn.
005) Bottom spar box cover toward the left wingtip.
I am happy with this system and they have held up well, since 1998. When
they are removed, every thing is exposed for inspection.
Rich is correct, of course, you can make them from glass off the top of
the wing. I wasn't smart enough to figure that out.
Good luck on the repair,
Tim
Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
005 (3)
006 (3)
002 (3)
003 (3)
004 (3)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING |
I think the best way to make the lower wing fairings is to get the airfoil
coordinates off the web and cut two templates and-make a sandwich with a
-block of low density foam and use a long sanding board to sand the foam
to-match the templates.- I think you could make a nice mold in an hour
or less and it would be the correct shape.
-
I made my lower fairings and my wingtips by laying up on the wing itself an
d I don't think using the top of the wing as a mold would produce a good qu
ality part.
-
I would try to avoid dropping the wing unless you have to.- There's a fai
r amount of risk of damaging things during-the demate procedure-and it
might be a real challenge getting it all lined up again.- You can jack th
e wing up under the spar and remove one bolt at a time to inspect the bolts
and bushings.-
-
As for the engine... I assume you were running a wood prop?- A lot of peo
ple I know-would just check the runout on the crank and call it good afte
r a low power prop strike with a wood prop.-
-
Scott
-
--- On Sat, 3/5/11, BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com> wrote:
From: BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
Subject: KIS-List: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING
Much obliged for the sage advice Rich.
Since the front part of the port upper fairing is also somewhat damaged tha
t makes a lot of sense. Together with Tim's idea of using thin plate below
the wing I think this repair issue is now resolved.
I'll get a professional to handle the wingtip, dent on topside of the wing
and the tail fin.
The rest is easy enough if I can source a stock 3/16" windscreen from the g
uys in Los Alamitos who apparently have the mold.
Regards,
- - - - - - Alfred
--------
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Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332853#332853
le, List Admin.
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING |
Scott, it madea very good quality part!! Kent
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Stearns
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING
I think the best way to make the lower wing fairings is to get
the airfoil coordinates off the web and cut two templates and make a
sandwich with a block of low density foam and use a long sanding board
to sand the foam to match the templates. I think you could make a nice
mold in an hour or less and it would be the correct shape.
I made my lower fairings and my wingtips by laying up on the
wing itself and I don't think using the top of the wing as a mold would
produce a good quality part.
I would try to avoid dropping the wing unless you have to.
There's a fair amount of risk of damaging things during the demate
procedure and it might be a real challenge getting it all lined up
again. You can jack the wing up under the spar and remove one bolt at a
time to inspect the bolts and bushings.
As for the engine... I assume you were running a wood prop? A
lot of people I know would just check the runout on the crank and call
it good after a low power prop strike with a wood prop.
Scott
--- On Sat, 3/5/11, BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
wrote:
From: BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
Subject: KIS-List: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 10:59 AM
<bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
Much obliged for the sage advice Rich.
Since the front part of the port upper fairing is also
somewhat damaged that makes a lot of sense. Together with Tim's idea of
using thin plate below the wing I think this repair issue is now
resolved.
I'll get a professional to handle the wingtip, dent on topside
of the wing and the tail fin.
The rest is easy enough if I can source a stock 3/16"
windscreen from the guys in Los Alamitos who apparently have the mold.
Regards,
Alfred
--------
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=332853#332853http://www.mat
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| Subject: | Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING |
It seems to me it wouldn't fit well at the leading edge, but maybe your fai
rings are different than mine.-
-
You can just make a layup on a flat table and make it work as long as you d
on't have to go around the leading edge very far, but I think with a little
more effort-you can make a part that matches the curve of the-wing.
-
Scott
--- On Sat, 3/5/11, kent pyle <kentpyle@iland.net> wrote:
From: kent pyle <kentpyle@iland.net>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING
Scott, it madea very good quality part!!- Kent
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Stearns
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING
I think the best way to make the lower wing fairings is to get the airfoil
coordinates off the web and cut two templates and-make a sandwich with a
-block of low density foam and use a long sanding board to sand the foam
to-match the templates.- I think you could make a nice mold in an hour
or less and it would be the correct shape.
-
I made my lower fairings and my wingtips by laying up on the wing itself an
d I don't think using the top of the wing as a mold would produce a good qu
ality part.
-
I would try to avoid dropping the wing unless you have to.- There's a fai
r amount of risk of damaging things during-the demate procedure-and it
might be a real challenge getting it all lined up again.- You can jack th
e wing up under the spar and remove one bolt at a time to inspect the bolts
and bushings.-
-
As for the engine... I assume you were running a wood prop?- A lot of peo
ple I know-would just check the runout on the crank and call it good afte
r a low power prop strike with a wood prop.-
-
Scott
-
--- On Sat, 3/5/11, BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com> wrote:
From: BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
Subject: KIS-List: Re: PORT SIDE FAIRING
Much obliged for the sage advice Rich.
Since the front part of the port upper fairing is also somewhat damaged tha
t makes a lot of sense. Together with Tim's idea of using thin plate below
the wing I think this repair issue is now resolved.
I'll get a professional to handle the wingtip, dent on topside of the wing
and the tail fin.
The rest is easy enough if I can source a stock 3/16" windscreen from the g
uys in Los Alamitos who apparently have the mold.
Regards,
- - - - - - Alfred
--------
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