---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/09/11: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:07 AM - KIS TR-1 Gear Gap () 2. 07:43 AM - Re: KIS TR-1 Gear Gap (ALFRED ROSA) 3. 01:13 PM - Re: KIS TR-1 Propeller () 4. 03:42 PM - KIS TR-1 Wing Removal and Installation () 5. 04:23 PM - Re: KIS TR-1 Wing Removal and Installation (Scott Stearns) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:35 AM PST US From: Subject: KIS-List: KIS TR-1 Gear Gap 3/9/2011 Hello Al, You wrote: 1) " Has anyone not done this?" That would be me. 2) "Wonder how big a difference it would make in parasitic drag." I suspect very little because the air in that area is already very turbulent because of: A) Disturbance caused by engine exhaust coming out of the exhaust pipes. B) Disturbance caused by the exhaust pipes themselves sticking out into the air flow. C) Disturbance caused by engine cooling air exiting out of the bottom rear of the engine cowling. I may cover over the gap some day, but it would be more cosmetically motivated than performance motivated. 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." ===================================================== From: "ALFRED ROSA" Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 10:41 AM Subject: KIS-List: Gear gap > I'm considering not bothering to cover the landing gear indent in the > bottom > of the fuselage. > > Has anyone not done this? Wonder how big a difference it would make in > parasitic drag. > > Al > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:15 AM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS TR-1 Gear Gap From: ALFRED ROSA OK, thanks. That's one less job to do. Al On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 8:05 AM, wrote: > > 3/9/2011 > > Hello Al, You wrote: > > 1) " Has anyone not done this?" > > That would be me. > > 2) "Wonder how big a difference it would make in parasitic drag." > > I suspect very little because the air in that area is already very > turbulent because of: > > A) Disturbance caused by engine exhaust coming out of the exhaust pipes. > > B) Disturbance caused by the exhaust pipes themselves sticking out into the > air flow. > > C) Disturbance caused by engine cooling air exiting out of the bottom rear > of the engine cowling. > > I may cover over the gap some day, but it would be more cosmetically > motivated than performance motivated. > > 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to > gather and understand knowledge." > > ===================================================== > From: "ALFRED ROSA" > To: "kisbuilders" > Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 10:41 AM > Subject: KIS-List: Gear gap > > > I'm considering not bothering to cover the landing gear indent in the >> bottom >> of the fuselage. >> >> Has anyone not done this? Wonder how big a difference it would make in >> parasitic drag. >> >> Al >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:13:38 PM PST US From: Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS TR-1 Propeller 3/9/2011 Hello Alfred, Message received. I'll try. There are some rather valid reasons for resubjecting or, as some may consider it, refining message subjects to show more accurate message content: 1) The initial message may be mostly on one subject, then someone will respond to that initial message including an off shoot subject and the next thing we know messages that deal only with, say flap positioning, are flying back and forth still under the intial subject of propeller performance. This would make it very difficult to research the subject of flap positioning if one were doing a message subject only search as opposed to doing a message content search. Bil Schertz, the founder and great guru of the original KIS list before it was shifted over to Matronics, was frequently reminding us to keep message subject focused on message content. Back then we did not have available the sophisticated message content search capability that currently exists within the Matronics system. 2) The initial message may just identify the airplane as a KIS with no specificity regarding whether the 2 seat or 4 seat, or tail dragger versus tricycle gear version was being discussed. This created confusion on many occasions and the sooner the clarification was made the better. 3) Sometimes the initial poster will use non standard / unfamiliar / wrong (from a widely accepted usage view point) terminology in the posting subject line such as "dust cover" instead of "glare shield" or "zero time engine" instead of "zero time SMOH (Since Major Over Haul)" and it is not entirely helpful to continue to use that initial misleading subject for the life of the thread (or eternity as the case may be). On balance my preference seems to lean toward accurate communication and future search relevance being of more long range value than near term ease in just following a current thread subject path no matter how misleading the subject has become. OC =============================================================== From: "Alfred Prosser" Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 11:26 AM Subject: RE: KIS TR-1 Propeller > Hi OC, > > If you don't mind, please don't start new threads on the forum when > responding to messages in already existing threads? It just > breaks the flow of things and adds clutter where there need not be any. No > harm done in just asking. > > Examples of this recently include: > KIS TR-1 Gear Gap > KIS TR-1 Propeller - attachment > PORT SIDE FAIRING > KIS Landings > > Regards, > Alfred > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:42:47 PM PST US From: Subject: KIS-List: KIS TR-1 Wing Removal and Installation 3/9/2011 Hello Scott, Thanks for the pictures. Your picture of the wing being held up by a jack setting on a structure made of particle board, 2 X 4's, and drywall screws reminded me of a thought that went through my mind a few times while building my KIS TR-1 and the various temporary jigs that I constructed with plywood (much of it from the original KIS delivery crate), 2 X 4's, and drywalls screws: "If you give me enough plywood, 2 X 4's, and drywall screws I bet I could build an Empire State Building." It might not be very usable, but it would be up there. OC PS: For those quick to scoff I refer them to the photos of bamboo scaffolding used in Hong Kong. See here: http://www.designboom.com/weblog/cat/8/view/6888/hong-kong-bamboo-scaffolding.html I marveled at this technique when I visited there back in the early 1960's. They were using a type of grass or rattan to fasten the joints -- don't know if they still do that. ================================================= From: "Scott Stearns" Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 1:03 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS TR-1 Wing Removal and Installation Here's a picture of the rig I built to install and remove my wing. I removed and installed the wing by myself dozens of times. The final iteration had the 2x4s vertical instead of angled (originally I made to remove the wing with the tail down). I also had temper foam where the wing rested in the cradle. It's on wheels which makes the wing easy to move around. Scott ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:23:54 PM PST US From: Scott Stearns Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS TR-1 Wing Removal and Installation Hi OC, - I've seen the bamboo scaffolding in China when I was there with Mark 10 yea rs ago.- 30 story buildings with bamboo scaffolding tied together with so me kind of a twine.- Not a nail or screw in it.- - The box with the jack had a base of 4x4s and was quite solid.- - Scott --- On Wed, 3/9/11, bakerocb@cox.net wrote: From: bakerocb@cox.net Subject: KIS-List: KIS TR-1 Wing Removal and Installation 3/9/2011 Hello Scott, Thanks for the pictures. Your picture of the wing being held up by a jack setting on a structure mad e of particle board, 2 X 4's, and drywall screws reminded me of a thought t hat went through my mind a few times while building my KIS TR-1 and the var ious temporary jigs that I constructed with plywood (much of it from the or iginal KIS delivery crate), 2 X 4's, and drywalls screws: "If you give me enough plywood, 2 X 4's, and drywall screws I bet I could b uild an Empire State Building." It might not be very usable, but it would b e up there. OC PS: For those quick to scoff I refer them to the photos of bamboo scaffoldi ng used in Hong Kong. See here: http://www.designboom.com/weblog/cat/8/view/6888/hong-kong-bamboo-scaffoldi ng.html I marveled at this technique when I visited there back in the early 1960's. They were using a type of grass or rattan to fasten the joints -- don't kn ow if they still do that. ======================== From: "Scott Stearns" Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 1:03 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS TR-1 Wing Removal and Installation Here's a picture of the rig I built to install and remove my wing. I remove d and installed the wing by myself dozens of times. The final iteration had the 2x4s vertical instead of angled (originally I made to remove the wing with the tail down). I also had temper foam where the wing rested in the cr adle. It's on wheels which makes the wing easy to move around. Scott le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.