Today's Message Index:
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1. 06:57 PM - Re: Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice (Richard Trickel)
2. 06:57 PM - Re: Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice (Richard Trickel)
3. 08:43 PM - Re: Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice (Scott Stearns)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice |
Alfred
I have been reading the post regarding the wing.- the pictures were not s
o good so there is some question.- also there were no rear spar photos.
-
Both scott and Mark are on the right path.- They should be since both are
engineers and have a lot of experience with the kis a/c.- So heed their
advice.- I would say that after a good exam of the damage area why not do
a limit load test on the wing... It would take a little work but I would r
epair the shear web panel and then do the load test.
Mark if yopu read this could you tell him the best way to do this.- I wou
ld be cheaper than buying a new wing.- I doubt that Pulsar will be able t
o make one.
Rich
--- On Wed, 4/13/11, BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com> wrote:
From: BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
Subject: KIS-List: Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice
You are right Mark.- There is some damage to the spar cap at the top rear
of the C-section. The question uppermost in my mind is the following: Cons
idering that damage resulted from compression, does damage to the resin mat
rix necessarily imply that the carbon fibres are broken? And even if the fi
bres are intact, could the resin matrix be repaired/strengthened effectivel
y?
The intended repair method involves claving (I think that's the right word?
) in new fibres with the old with a large overlap after cutting a very shal
low V notch (3 feet slope on each side) at the crack location and then also
repairing the shear web. Sounds similar to the repair job Rich supervised.
The front half of the spar cap and the integrity of junction to the spine o
f the C-section will remain uncompromised, because the damage is limited to
the rear half of the top spar cap .
Naturally, repairing a main spar is anomalous to us in the GA world and we
do tend to look on it with suspicion. It does however seem that it is par f
or the course in the sailplane world and the main contenders for the job ha
s been doing main spar repairs for more than thirty years.
Apparently the LAA (PFA) here will look kindly on the repair provided it is
done by such a reputable sailplane repair outfit. I am trying to make cont
act with the LAA official in charge of such affairs who apparently expresse
d this opinion to a fellow KIS owner in Scotland, but establishing contact
seems to be more difficult than making a call and leaving a request for a r
eturn call - an experience some of the UK guys may have shared when dealing
with the LAA :o)
I must admit the option to walk away is tempting, but I'll make the final d
ecision after considering all relevant information.
- Alfred
--------
_________________________________________
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336867#336867
le, List Admin.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice |
--- On Wed, 4/13/11, Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net> wrote:
From: Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice
The damage is very small BUT (and this is a very big but) there seems to be
a small notch in the edge of the carbon fiber spar cap. If this was from c
ompression then I would suspect the whole spar cap.- There is also the mi
ssing paint on the top (bottom?) of the spar.- This also makes me suspect
the spar cap.- If this is the case then it may not be a good idea to try
to repair the spar but it can be done by an expert.- The fibers do not n
eed to run from one end to the other but the repair will require a large ar
ea to properly bond.- For example Rich supervised (or maybe did) the repa
ir on the center spar of a TR4 that went to China.
If the missing paint and notch were caused by other things like abrasion ov
er time then maybe the spat cap is ok.- But without looking at it in pers
on I can not tell.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
>From: BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
>Sent: Apr 13, 2011 10:05 AM
>To: kis-list@matronics.com
>Subject: KIS-List: Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice
>
>
>
>Thank you for all the contributions so far. Good food for thought :o)
>
>Much obliged for the pointer to the wing information Scott! Attached a hi-
res photo of the damaged area which will allow you to see where it is on th
e spar - hopefully it won't be stripped off by the moderator. I'm hoping th
at we will find that the carbon fibers on the top web of the c-section are
intact. If so, the repair cost will drop by an order of magnitude.
>
>In case the carbon is damaged I am also looking at the option to have- a
n entirely new wing built. For this I am working with people who routinely
design and built huge hydro-electric turbine blades ... actually aircraft d
esigners/builders who diversified into the turbine (wind and water) busines
s.
>
>I'm thinking that the cost to build new would be about the same as an exte
nsive repair, given the simple wing construction of the KIS and that we can
re-use the flaps and ailerons.
>
>I already know of at least one other person who also requires a new wing.
By building two wings we could at least split the non-recurring engineering
costs. (While we are at it we'll obviously improve on the original.)
>
>Anyone else out there who requires a new wing?- The more the merrier :o)
>
>--**--
>
>--------
>_________________________________________
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336822#336822
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/tr_1_spar_damage_162.jpg
>
>
le, List Admin.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice |
It would break my heart if it were my airplane, but I'd take the money and
walk away and find a new toy.- Maybe Mark will sell you his.
-
Scott-
-
--- On Wed, 4/13/11, BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com> wrote:
From: BlueSkyFlier <bleuskyfly@teledynamix.com>
Subject: KIS-List: Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice
You are right Mark.- There is some damage to the spar cap at the top rear
of the C-section. The question uppermost in my mind is the following: Cons
idering that damage resulted from compression, does damage to the resin mat
rix necessarily imply that the carbon fibres are broken? And even if the fi
bres are intact, could the resin matrix be repaired/strengthened effectivel
y?
The intended repair method involves claving (I think that's the right word?
) in new fibres with the old with a large overlap after cutting a very shal
low V notch (3 feet slope on each side) at the crack location and then also
repairing the shear web. Sounds similar to the repair job Rich supervised.
The front half of the spar cap and the integrity of junction to the spine o
f the C-section will remain uncompromised, because the damage is limited to
the rear half of the top spar cap .
Naturally, repairing a main spar is anomalous to us in the GA world and we
do tend to look on it with suspicion. It does however seem that it is par f
or the course in the sailplane world and the main contenders for the job ha
s been doing main spar repairs for more than thirty years.
Apparently the LAA (PFA) here will look kindly on the repair provided it is
done by such a reputable sailplane repair outfit. I am trying to make cont
act with the LAA official in charge of such affairs who apparently expresse
d this opinion to a fellow KIS owner in Scotland, but establishing contact
seems to be more difficult than making a call and leaving a request for a r
eturn call - an experience some of the UK guys may have shared when dealing
with the LAA :o)
I must admit the option to walk away is tempting, but I'll make the final d
ecision after considering all relevant information.
- Alfred
--------
_________________________________________
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336867#336867
le, List Admin.
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